Work will start on cutting up the German sub U534 today at 10am, using a diamond wire cutter. It's a long process, four sections will go to the Woodside Ferry Terminal by floating crane where it will be part of a new attraction opening in the summer, there will be viewing galleries and you can walk through it. They recently had to pump it because it still had thousands of gallons of old diesel in it!
i hope they mess up and end up having to weigh it in, its a pile of shit, i like historic stuff and i belive that things of importance etc should be preserved, but this has no valve of history , just rust.
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
They or the Tram drivers reacon they need something down that way or woodside may as well close.
I'm sure the money could have been better invested in a "Virtual" Sub you can walk around on a computer
I would rather spend my money on a visit to a new sub with no connection to the wirral and see all the lights and switches, than visiting a sub that's old battered and i still have no idea what the connection to the wirral is.
Its a WWII Sunken German Sub Mark - its main purpose is so people can walk round it and gloat with the knowledge that we fooked 'em good
There where the Plymouth and Onyx downt there too, but I belive evn parts of those where off limits to public as some of the technology was still in use
the Plymouth was used by an a veterans club were they used to do armature radio and pretend that the Germans were comming.i know this as my slightly insane father(love him really)was a member ,they also used to assist the public on tours.You wouldnt believe the red tape that all of the vessels that where at the east float are all still wrapped up in.they cant even gain accsess to them to retrieve the clubs property,something to do with it being crown property:<
Last edited by jonno39; 5th Feb 200811:07am.
It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence
look at the pic posted by mark of where it will go. The wire mesh creates boxes look at the bottom row of them, second from left, top right of the box. It's a zombie poking his head up.
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Its a waste of money. They could of just scrapped it for metal.. Cause that's all it is. an empty shell of nothing.. At least it'l have one good thing.. Ghosties
Im completely against this...it should have been left alone...there arent many complete U-Boats left in the world these days...specially around our area...what is cutting it into pieces going to prove??
I never had a chance to go inside this, as I was always too young...But id have loved to have gone inside and relived some "Das Boot" memories etc..
and also..if you check the records...she was used mainly as a training vessel for most of the war..but she did "Score" a kill...downing a Wellington Bomber of 172 squadron..
Yeah, Merseytravel are meant to be paying the bill, instead, they put tunnel tolls up and make us pay for moving the peice of shitty german crap!!
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no word of a lie here but whatever nation a vessel fought for and served, when, in this case sank, it should be left as a grave for the people who served on her. this very site is about preserving memories.
also the military records for this are bollocks, straights up truth she was declared a loss in the medetranean by the ministry and yet the discovery channel actually found her lying at the bottom of the sea just off the eastern seaboard of the USA,a poingant story on this program showed a german lady who had emigrated to this area after the war and found out (thru disco channel) that her brother had served on it and all the time was lying at the bottom of the sea just off the coast from her in the USA. I cannot remember the exact reason for the (untersee boot) sub not returning but at a guess my german car does 13 to the gallon round the doors, sorry joking aside this should be returned to germany (in one piece) or laid to rest where found or if the tourist brigaded (funded by your taxes) want to go the whole way then why not dig up titanic and stick it on the other side of the sub down woodside!!!!!!
disgusting is all I can say!
All hail the posting King and thou Wiki Wirral Bumper sticker will be displayed with pride
not good on memories of the program but the brothers knife with his name on was found aboard the sub and that is how they traced the sister, its a disco channel program and well worth a look
All hail the posting King and thou Wiki Wirral Bumper sticker will be displayed with pride
Okay Some New Pictures and it dosent look too far away from being done. I heard its probably going to be the Mersey mammoth that lifts the thing in peaces.
From The Four Bridges - It really looks naff from here.
sure it was not these kicking headstones down, its a grave for fooks sake
pmsl, good point, shame no one died on it though , wish though they'd kick the whole dam thing back in to the sea and be done with the big stupid lump of waste of time
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
i am sure this is the sub with the incorrect history jotted down, i have tried to find a link but cant but sure its defo this one that was on the discovery channel and found off the U.S coast and not the med like they wanted us to believe. can anyone research this??
All hail the posting King and thou Wiki Wirral Bumper sticker will be displayed with pride
Lets reactivate thse torpedos and blow the frigging thing up and send it back where it belongs at the bottom of the sea... They shouldnt of brought it up in the First place..
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some confusion here, i seen a program which puts das tunneltollgrapzer as sank off the florida keys, i just googled 'u534' and already i find on report of loss in the bay of biscay, then one stating just off denmark, can anyone get the official version of events
All hail the posting King and thou Wiki Wirral Bumper sticker will be displayed with pride
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Just looking at those pictures. Is this what Mersey Travel are doing to get tourism back into the Wirral ? what apile of Scrap Metal what a waste of money.. Good pictures though but seriously what a waste of money.. The money could of gone else where....
High pressure air was pumped into those cylinders and stored. Released when required into the ballast tanks to blow out the water when they wanted to surface. "Das Boot" tells all !!
High pressure air was pumped into those cylinders and stored. Released when required into the ballast tanks to blow out the water when they wanted to surface. "Das Boot" tells all !!
I'm pretty sure the Onyx was bought by a Barrow businessman - it's on show in the docks there. You can see some very cool pictures of the inside of ONYX here
Ooooo I should really go down, but I have some stuff to do today... too much time spent at her's in the last couple of weeks so im enjoying some time with Felix lmao... actually im sorting me business.
Might pop down this afternoon though, does anyone know if it will will still be going on?
If I do, I will call in at yours Mark and see if you want to go.
Am not lying mate, it wasnt doing anything when we saw it. We wernt there all day though, just popped down to have a look this afternoon, got a brief glimpse, saw nothing, so drove on.
I aint lying, it wasnt doing anything, it was just docked when we saw it.
I aint saying the news is lying either. Just that we never saw anything, but we had been down there.
The news this morning showed video footage from when it was first moved over here.
I didn't know that it was bought for just €1 - wish they had kept the receipt as its a pile of crap
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Mersey Mammoth took the conning tower section to Woodside about 12 o'clock today. I got there just in time to see it being unhooked. The mammoth went back to the docks by the sub and tied up. I hung around for an hour but nothing happened. The news clip on the telly was the standard stock footage from when it arrived the first time. they show every time it's mentioned
you can see the seam where the older pics meet the newer pic, st james church is in the older section but the dock area in question is in the newer section
Just seen a BBC North West news summary... wtf the twonks, they reported "a German U-Boat sunk during World War II and purchased for €1.00 has today been moved to Birkenhead Docks".
Erm, no it hasnt, it was already in Birkenhead Docks, it has been there for year's, it was recently sliced and diced and is now being moved to perish in Woodside, not the docks ffs!!!
Lots of merseyside people were crew members aboard the Lusitania which was sunk of the coast of Ireland during the first world war by a German uboat.So what an insult to thier memory and every other ships crew that was sunk by a u boat.This sub has no connection to the wirral what so ever but the bidston tunnels are part of our local heritage as is the observatory.
It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence
been watching this day by day as i've driven past on the way to the tunnel. wanted to stop and take some pics , but its a bit hard with a huge lift tank behind me full of 23 tonne of corrosive paste without causing an obstruction....
It looks a right fookin eyesore IMO - I can't see it bringing many visitors to Woodside.
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Lets put a few things straight, it seems that some people on this board are unaware of the facts and yet take the time to post inaccurate statements...
Firstly, the U534 is NOT the boat that was the subject of the Discovery Channel programme. That was U869. That boat was originally reported sunk somewhere off Gibraltar in 44/45 but divers found it off the coast of the US where it was sunk during the German U-boat offensive against the US Eastern Seaboard (operation drumbeat). It was indeed confirmed by a number of items salvaged including a knife belonging to one of the German submariners. Sadly, two (or three?) research divers died while exploring the wreck.
Secondly, the U534 is NOT a war-grave. Had it been so it would not have been raised at all. The fact is that nobody died INSIDE the vessel and so no bodies remained there so it is not a grave. All hands escaped after the attack which sank her (including some who crawled out of torpedo tubes). Three submariners died later from exposure.
I can understand the frustration regarding the Mersey tunnels and Merseytravel but I think the UBoat is an important piece of history and should be preserved. I understand that Merseytravel is (at least part) government funded, and a lottery grant would help for projects such as these, but all these resources are now being ploughed into the horrendous cost of hosting the London Olympics - to the detriment of the rest of the tax-paying country. Do some simple research into the Millennium Dome and the New Wembley to see other cases where the whole country is forced to pay through the nose to the advantage of the big smoke while the cost of these projects double, triple and quadrouple in cost and we, as northerners help to foot the bill to fund something that will be of little advantage to us, meanwhile, other heritage sites and historical facilities fall by the wayside (see Jodrell Bank for the most recent)
Two good reasons why the effort should be made to keep the u-boat on display (either as a whole or in sections)..
1. Engineering legacy: I notice quite few people on here seem to be into cars judging by the avatars. It may therefore interest you that as a piece of engineering the U534 like much of German engineering was outstanding in many areas (are you still reading Audi and BMW owners?) I went aboard when the wreck was at Birkenhead and the light bulbs still worked despite it being under the sea for half a century! The diesel engines were very advanced and could actually run in reverse (which baffled even people in the 90s when she was salvaged). The torpedoes on board were also the most sophisticated ever produced by any side during WW2.
2. Historical legacy. Anything that helps us (and our children) appreciate and understand the great sacrifices made by our countrymen that were made during WW2 can only be a good thing. In this case, Liverpool's involvement in the battle of the Atlantic. Scrapping the Uboat wreck would be pig-ignorant and an insult to all those who lost their lives fighting for us. When I was on board the U534, one of the other people being shown around on the tour was a friend and colleague of Alan Turing and he found the tour very interesting and worthwhile. Turing was the head of the code breakers at Bletchley Park and is largely credited with cracking the German "Enigma" codes which saved many lives of Brits during the conflict, in the process he helped devise and develop the bombe machines which essentially were the world's first computers.
I also disagree with the decision to scrap the HMS Plymouth (which was hit by an Argentine bomb that failed to explode during the Falklands war) and HMS Onyx the British sub.
Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.
I don't know if there is an official website with the facts.
People see what they want to see, and think about the costs etc. So as it stands at this moment.
Its been rusting away. It been cut up. And now moved.
And apparently it was sold to the wirral for a £1
Because there is so little written about the Uboat. It is difficult to get excited about something most people see as a waste of time an effort. A Huge white elephant.
People may come, people may stare, but they wont understand the history nor the local objections to it, is my thinking.
Thanks for posting, and sharing your views, im sure the debate will go on and on..
That is the biggest load of b*****ks I have ever read on this site .This was obviously written by somebody who doesnt live in the wirral ,you obviously don't have to experience the bus service that we do.I personally don't care what uboat it is or was, it is still a german uboat .My grandfather lost lots of good friends in the battle of the Atlantic as many other people did during the first and second world war.Secondly the people of Wirral suffered anti German riots in 1915 after the sinking of the Lusitania(by a uboat) and now we have one as a monument (sick),this monstrosity is now based directly opposite to where the Lusitania would of docked if it had been allowed to complete its journey. There are many more things that merseytravel could spend the money on ,for instance a reliable bus service and if there is the need for a tourist attraction at least do something that has a connection to the Wirral . the people of the wirral don't need a submarine we need reliable transport
It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence
That is the biggest load of b*****ks I have ever read on this site .This was obviously written by somebody who doesnt live in the wirral ,you obviously don't have to experience the bus service that we do.I personally don't care what uboat it is or was, it is still a german uboat .My grandfather lost lots of good friends in the battle of the Atlantic as many other people did during the first and second world war.Secondly the people of Wirral suffered anti German riots in 1915 after the sinking of the Lusitania(by a uboat) and now we have one as a monument (sick),this monstrosity is now based directly opposite to where the Lusitania would of docked if it had been allowed to complete its journey. There are many more things that merseytravel could spend the money on ,for instance a reliable bus service and if there is the need for a tourist attraction at least do something that has a connection to the Wirral . the people of the wirral don't need a submarine we need reliable transport
Nanook - Its a pile of scrap !
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
I want to vandalise it when its sorted out.. and i aint threating im promising if i had the bloody balls in me id ruin it 100% and show Merseytravel what we all think of it.. Lets just create a Big blender and ask this guy to see if it blends? [youtube]sIakPZ0DJjg[/youtube]
Thanks Smartchild, I appreciate the accolade of writing the "the biggest load of b*****ks" on this site. Actually, it is undeserved though, as the first half of my post was all about outlining the facts and correcting the errors made by people on this thread that others have since commented on. I hope it helped and maybe some people appreciated it. I wasn't trying to be a smart ar5e or cause an argument. The second half of my post was my opinion (which I am entitled to) so I presume this was the "b****ks" part you were referring to. If that is how you react to other people's opinion in a discussion just because it differs from your own then I think you have just claimed the title yourself.
Well done for deducing that I don't live in the Wirral as it's says "Location: Skem" right underneath my name. I cannot comment on Merseytravel and to be honest, I can see where your coming from and if your bus service is cr*p then they definately should sort that out for the people of the Wirral before wasting their money on an exhibit like an sub wreck. Agreed.
The thrust of the second part of my original post was about preserving our history. The people of London do not protest to the fact that there are V1 and V2 flying bombs on display in their Imperial War Museum, despite the London public being terrorised by these "vengeance weapons" in the forties. The Jewish people of Europe do not protest that places like Auschwitz are now museums - it raises awareness and serves to educate otherwise ignorant people. There are WW2 exhibits of both sides on display all around the world thanks to the fact that most people have the brains and desire to remember and appreciate the past and want to preserve it rather than just scrapping it for the promise of a few quid.
I think this situation should make everyone happy... Merseytravel concentrate their funds on sorting out the local bus service, and the U-Boat goes on display in a different part of the country where it will not offend as many relatives of those directly involved in the battle of the Atlantic. Preferrably a location where the locals don't vow to vandalise it (classy) or sink it (genius) and have the intelligence and grace to realise that it should be preserved as a piece of history and not just destroyed.
I think most people involved directly or indirectly in the battle of the Atlantic (and the Lusitania if they are still alive) would agree with me that the fact the vessel is preserved, regardless of who's side it was on, can only be a good thing as it raises awareness of the great achievements and absolute sacrifice made by the brave people who defended our country from Nazis.
It is a fairly strong debatable topic where there is always a difference of opinions.
There all welcome, as long as it does not become personal.
---------
My own view on it is that it just looks like a load of rust. If they wanted to preserve it why cut it up? Smaller chunks don't make it easier to swallow.
Personally i think its been a white elephant who ever has owned it, and i think it will continue to be a white elephant.
It does look interesting to look at for all of 10 mins, but a working sub would interest me for an hour or more.
Woodside was dying, the ferry wasn't pulling in the tourists and this is there master plan by the looks of it?
It is debatable the whole thing and i wonder if i will ever settle with it being a good thing, now its history becomes clearer...
You see after seeing the plans and seeing it close up i cant see the real thing looking as good as the plans, its interesting but thats it.
Its a shame it doesn't have any local ties and then its spot being worthy in my opinion. But it doesn't except for the fact were stuck with it now, if we like it or not.
I think the main reason it's there is because nobody else wanted to take it on (perhaps wisely from a commercial standpoint), which is surprising as there is a submarine museum somewhere down south (Plymouth, I think).
As I've said, I think it should be preserved but then again - to be honest I wouldn't want it outside my window either - it's not a very nice thing to look at (I'm not from teh Wirral - is it going to live within eyeshot of people's houses?). Also, I hope it is not their master plan as the last exhibition it was part of (Historic Warships) ran out of money and folded - so it's proven that it just isn't going to attract enough attention regardless of wether it is in one piece or in sections. I would definately come and see it - but thats just me. And I'll only go once every ten years.
Things like this always frustrate me though as I think that if they were down south then the funding would arrive from somewhere without local Councils (ie taxpayers) and/or transport industry having to fork out as is often the case up here in the North.
The arch over the new Wembley probably cost more than it would to keep Jodrell Bank open for 20 years. The price to re-locate and open this sub as an attraction would probably cost less than one of the struts that holds up that silly swaying millenium footbridge over the Thames.
I think the main reason it's there is because nobody else wanted .........
It
Is the missing word. Honnestly nanook in its current state Battle ship grey it looks an eye sore.
Apparently it is the master plan. We have pictures from down at woodside, and its going down hill. We were informed by the Tram Driver there that the Tourist Information down there is no more?
So who knows? As someone else said, reduce the costs of the ferry and run it longer in the day. ( i believe it stops at 6 or 7pm).
Who ever had the master plan to move the main bus depot to the centre of Birkenhead, killed woodside.
Could that have been the same people trying to fix up a submarine. I wish i could make mistakes like that and get away with it.
I do hope i'm proved wrong, but i just can see it. Its going to get a nick name soon...
Nemo or something like that as you have to laugh at it as you pass it...
Just a point, HMS Plymouth and HMS Onyx were owned and maintained by the historic warship trust which folded due to lack of funds. I wonder if the money used to move the sub (reportedly £250,000) had been given to them we could have kept a far more interesting and relative historical tourist attraction on the Wirral.
WE on the Wirral do not want it,how about we moved the Concourse and replaced it with something that was of no use to your community. We don't care ,we don't want it, what dont you understand about that.HOW can you comment on how we should behave towards a killing machine.Have you actually spoke to anyone who was involved in battle of the Atlantic or lives here. We have spoken to a cross section of people and so to have our local press and the general opinion is GET RID.
The crew of the Lusitania and of the ships sunk by uboats may not be alive but they do have relatives and family,so i jhope you are proud not only is what you say b*****cks you have managed to insult their memory as well.
Also the V BOMBS are actually part of London's history where as this hunk of crap has no connection to this area
You will see there is no support what so ever. If you want German memorabilia you are in the wrong place
It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence
I actually think it could turn out to be quite a good little attraction if merseytravel play their cards right and do a little refurb on it and tidy it up.
At the end of the day, its merseytravels money and business to do as they wish with and we don't have to use their services if we don't want to. We always have the option of the Runcorn bridge. how much extra would it cost in fuel, more or less than £1.40.
yes waddi it is meseytravels money but with out us there wouldn't be a merseytravel, we pay the fares ,which incidentally are due to go up again along with the withdrawl of more services..Its not about cost its about us being asked (we weren't) and I'm not saying it wont make a decent attraction but if you go and see it,you too will have doubts.
It all makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents ,pound shillings and pence
I think the main reason it's there is because nobody else wanted to take it on
because it has no worth while point of keepin or historical value, they raised it on a hunch lookin for treasure, after they looted it, they can hardly justify chuckin it bach in the sea, so they picked the trampiest location in the world and stuck it there.
Do me a favour sub - self blend will ya
Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
You will be pleased to know that i popped down there today to see what has been done.
1. The back and one other section have been put together? 2. The Stands it stands on are now Grey and not Red. 3. Some plastic bags are over the ends. 4. The conning tower is on. 5. Still looks crap.
could an admin not print a wiki-pass to get some kind of better access to film things like this close up, like a reporter or summit? if you had time tho
needed to change this for years. so now i have. ha
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looks like the exterior cutting is done
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, wish though they'd kick the whole dam thing back in to the sea and be done with the big stupid lump of waste of time
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