any suggestions for
Oldest house in Wirral still lived in
Oldest church in Wirral still used as a church
Oldest hospital in Wirral still used as a hospital
Oldest school in Wirral still used as a school
Oldest pub in Wirral still used as a pub [Wheatsheaf Raby?]
Oldest cinema in Wirral still used as a cinema

any other oldest you can think of

Oldest Person in Wirral still alive.
Oldest car still being driven

oldest business, oldest post box, oldest lamp post, oldest telephone box.

I think the oldest Yew tree is in the graveyard in the church in Eastham Village
A notice says it was there in the Domesday Book

St Albans Church, Liscard was built in 1841 so it may be the oldest.

The oldest continous "site" for a church is St Hilary's, Wallasey as it goes back as far as 445 AD. The current church was built in 1859 when the one before was burnt down. All that is left of the original is the tower which was built in 1530.

The oldest standing building on the Wirral is of course - Birkehead Priory (1150)

Don't know whether its the oldest post box but the one in Balls Rd by the Art gallery is one of a few in GB that has a vertical slot.

Oldest church must be Birkenhead Priory - I think services are still held there

Cottage hospital or st catherines or clatterbridge (well that nearlly about covers all them ) could be contenders for oldest hospitals still used????

Birkenhead Priory is the oldest church on wirral 1150 It is also the oldest standing building..

Your getting mixed up when talking about the priory being the oldes church. The priory was not a church. The oldest church is St Mary's which was built along side the priory. The church was built in 1819. Long before th Parish church of Birkenhead {St Mary's} was built there where already older churches on the wirral. to name but 2, there is the Bidston church in the township of Bidston and Woodchurch church in the township of woodchurch. I could go on and on naming very old churches in various townships on the wirral but would be here all night. The book THE WIRRAL HUNDRED PUBLISHED IN 1889 lists them all. Must warn you it is HEAVY READING.

Aye jimbob thanks for that

Here's a list from the 1947 plan book, which covers the town & out as far as Woodchurch. Jimbob is right about Bidston & Woodchurch.

While on this sub-topic, just a quick mention that some church plans are available online

http://www.churchplansonline.org/

2nd Birkenhead Scout Group oldest in the world

1885 Mersey Railway tunnel, first successful underwater tunnel in the world

On Leasowe Road is the first building in the world to be heated entirely by solar energy. St George’s School was built in 1961 to the designs of Emslie Morgan, a “genius” who spent a lifetime looking into ways of harnessing the sun’s rays. His research resulted in the “Solar School”, a matchbox like building with, on one side a drab, windowless façade and on the other I0,000 square feet of glass, a giant solar wall. The wall is built of glass leaves two feet apart. These draw the ultra violet rays from sunshine and bounce them around the walls of the classrooms. The walls become warm and heat the air. Hardly any warmth escapes through the school’s massively thick roof and walls covered with slabs of plastic foam. On the coldest days it is always 6o degrees Fahrenheit inside, and in summer the school is cooler than its more conventional neighbours, for panels inside the glass wall can be turned to deflect heat or absorb it. It need hardly be said that, despite the uniqueness of the building at the time of its erection, it was left to foreign designers to take up the invention and use it on a world wide scale.

Woodside Ferry is the oldest ferry terminal in the country


Few more in the Interesting Facts topic

Oldest OFF LICENCE on Birkenhead:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=53.383757,-3.027476&spn=0.001253,0.003487&t=h&z=19

It's vacant at the moment, and no doubt will be converted into luxury apartments.

Oldest Birkenhead off licence

some yobs tried to burn it down once

Yew trees were grown in churchyards because it was law once for all men to practice their archery after going to church and the bows and arrows were made from yew trees

Just a note of interest, I used to be a boy scout in the 2Birkenhead Scout group. I was not much good at knots but boy could I play British Bulldog.

oldest pub? the weatsheaf in raby?

Nice find, Bert.
Last time I came up I took a pic. of this unusual box. Bert is right; it is a very unusual design. The first pillar box appears to have been installed in 1853 (more recent than I thought), in Carlisle. The Balls Rd. one seems to be of the 1856 design, which didn't last long. By 1866 the hexagonal Penfold design had been adopted. Here's a pic. of the Penfold in Ashville Rd. but it's quite likely that this is a later replica.
Thanks to Wikipedia.

Oldest (Wiki member) mum?

My mum was 91 last week - and she has one heck of a memory for "things" to do with Wallasey Village and people. Trying to capture it is a nighmare.

Snod

Is she registered on wiki?

That will be cool if she is registured on wiki hun

I show her the site when she visits and she is fascinated - but far too scared of computers to even touch the mouse herself.

I keep trying

Snod

Awww i feel sorry for her mate it be hard for you to get her by the computer

For heaven's sake, record your talks with her. I will always regret not having any record of my gran's stories (born 1888), otherwise when she's gone, her memories are gone with her.

i agree with you there chris cuz my nan used to tell me storys aswell about the old days and that even i wish i has recoreded me nan telling me

My Mum will be 90 this year and she was born in the Mersey Cottages in Wallasey 1919. She also has a remarkable memory and has spoken often of the May blitz 1940 of Wallasey, B'Head and Liverpool and other amazing recollections too.

Where were/ are Mersey Cottages?

No hits on Google

Snod

Chris

I have tried recording. Not a lot of success.

First, if she knows she is being recorded she sort of "dries up". If I do the recording sneaky (I have small recoders that run for an hour per tape side) then her conversations are SO difficult to keep on track. Side tracks to the TV, shopping, birds/ cats in the garden - arrrgh - does my head in. The expression - "like a flea on a hotplate" jumps to mind. Then I have to go through the tape and write down the bits that seem useful AT THAT POINT IN TIME. The problem then is that some months later I will realise there was another "fact" hidden in a bit of conversation I discarded.

The very best sessions have been when I have made up a CD / DVD of a load of old Wallasey photos and then have had mum and a friend or two of the same vintage view those photos on the TV via the disk player.

Given that visual stimulus from the pictures there can be all sorts of really useful "information flow" between mum and friends.

Maybe Whitewych and I should arrange a "mothers meeting" and we can listen at the keyhole

Snod

Yes, it's not easy. probably best with the recorder in a pocket & a lapel mike. I recently bought a little Olympus hard drive recorder on e-bay for £16 which is very inconspicuous.

My nan in law has loads of interesting stuff to say about the war-blitz, blackouts etc and she talks of a house in heswall for the 'girls in trouble'. She can remember loads but what does my head in is that if you ask a question, she ALWAYs replies 'oh i cant remember THAT!' Grrr lol

Try offering her some Quality Street
As she sucks on them toffee's i'm sure the stories will come

I have a series called "Forgotten voices" the blitz and the battle of britian.That is the title.

It is an audio book of people giving thier personal accounts during the blitz.

They are available from waterstones.

Chris

I have a couple of similar machines that use C120 mini cassettes of 60 mins recording per side. However, as I say mum's normal conversations jump about so much that recovering meaningful information from covert use is a tedious job.

I even gave mum one of the recorders and a load of photo prints in an album so that she could visit her friends in their homes, show them the pics and record the conversation. Never happened. She took the photos/ had the conversations - but never remembered to switch on the recorder

Snod

There is a row of cottages next to The Saughall pub in Saughall Massie dated 1589, is this correct?

Whats the oldest house in wirral?

No one is really sure because a lot of the date stones of that age are hard to read. Its probably one of the Wallasey buildings. Possibly this one, click me: Birds House

William Bird's House

This rather oddly shaped old house still stands on the corner of Limekiln Lane and Poulton Bridge Road and is reputed to be the oldest left standing in Wallasey. The date stone is somewhat controversial as the text is not clear and a variety of styles of writings were used over the century's. There have been many suggestions of the year on the date stone including 1697, 1627, 1691; however i believe it to be 1621. The stone also bears the initials W.B.M which i would suggest stands for William "middle name (unknown) " Bird.

The house is made from well fashioned sandstone blocks and is typical for architecture for the 17th century farmers dwelling. At that time there would have been open pastures around there area with small houses and outbuildings dotted around the area. It is impress to think that the occupiers of this house lived during the reign of King James 1st of England.

The oldest Farm in Wirral is this one, click me Old Hall Farm

The oldest farm building in Wirral is said to be Old Hall Farm, more recently known as Puvells pig farm situated at 19 Barnston Lane. The building dates back to 1719 which the date stone above the door clearly shows. Also on the date stone are the initial D.W.M standing for Daniel and Mary Wilson. Daniel Wilson was the son of Robert Wilson who lived at Bidston Hall. Upon the death of his father many property's were left to Daniel including a share of Bidston Mill. Over the years Old Hall changed hands many times and like many other farms around Moreton it eventually ceased trading and became used as a commercial premises.

For some reason lots of the text has dissapeared off the site. For furthe photos of the farm click this link.

Oldest Lighthouse in Wirral is Leasowe Lighthouse. Click here for further info.

Leasowe Lighthouse is one of two old lighthouses which stood overlooking Mockbeggar bay. The first lighthouse known as the lower light, was taken down centuries ago but is noted to have stood much further out into the sea, on land which is now no longer visible.

Mr Thomas Barclay in 1827 states the following:

"A lighthouse stood on the beach, to the northward of the present one, nearly half a mile distant, if not all together. That lighthouse was long ago rendered useless by the encroachment of the water, and it was pulled down. The present one was built in 1763, and i assisted in building it. At that time there was a high ridge of sand hills and grass to keep off the tide, at a considerable distance from the present lighthouse. The hills and grass are now all gone, and there is nothing left to stop the water which is
making rapid approaches inland".

It is recorded that out near the old lighthouse there used to be an old well which was enclosed all around by masonry. In 1889 Philip Sulley states that the well is still visible at low tide. Unfortunately today, the well and all evidence of the old lighthouse is now under the heavy waters of the River Mersey.

Leasowe Lighthouse stands on Leasowe Common and is a well known landmark on Wirral. It is
built of brick, several feet thick and is solid at the base, tapering as it goes up to a height of one hundred and one feet. There are seven floors which can be reached by a cast iron staircase of one hundred and thirty steps.

Over the entrance there is a tablet bearing the inscription M.W.G. 1763, standing for and
commemorating the then mayor of Liverpool, William Gregson. Two lighthouses were originally erected on the coast of Leasowe in 1763 a 'lower light' on the shore and an 'upper light' on the site of the present building. The theory was, that the approaching ships master had only to line up the two lights to achieve a safe entrance to the Rock Channel and the port of Liverpool. The 'lower light' was troubled by erosion and the building collapsed into the sea during a storm. The present lighthouse at Leasowe was used as the lower light when the previous lower lighthouse collapsed and the upper light was built on Bidston Hill in 1771, three miles away. The light at Leasowe were lit for the last time on July 14th 1908, and the light at Bidston ceased to function in 1913.

The last keeper of the lighthouse was a woman. Mr. and Mrs. Williams were formerly keepers of the Great Orme Lighthouse in Llandudno and they transferred to Leasowe. Shortly after moving Mr. Williams was taken ill and it was during his illness that his wife took over the duties. She performed them so well that on his death, which was twelve months later, the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board made her keeper. They also allowed her to employ one of her thirteen children, a daughter, as an assistant. When the building ceased to function as a lighthouse Mrs. Williams was moved into a cottage but she kept the lighthouse as a teahouse for summer visitors and it became extremely popular. In 1929 it was offered for sale but no one wanted to buy it until March
1930 when the Wallasey Corporation bought it for a sum of £900. After the death of Mrs. Williams in 1935 the lighthouse was closed to the public and put to no further use. In 1973 it was painted white but nothing more was done until 1989 when the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral carried out refurbishment work to stop the building deteriorating any further.

Come on people get your mums and grans onto Wiki,it's the only way to have real people memories telling us how things were.

Yes your talking about Prospect Farm .... they are relations of mine who live there.

The elongated farm below is known in the village as prospect farm and bears the date stone of 1539 making it easily the oldest building which survives within Saughall Massey. As can be seen in the pictures above the original farm building on the left had its roof raised meet the roof on the right hand side. The house is home to the Broster family who are distant relations of mine from Ivy Farm. They are the 6th generation of the Brosters to live in this building and an integral part of the history of Saughall Massey. At the back of prospect farm was a large old dwelling which upon demolition was found to contain a large Vat. This gives credit to the rumour that the old building was once the village inn. In front of Prospect Farm stood another of building called "Salisbury Cottage".

Just reading in "The Wirral" Book by Alan Brack that probably the oldest thing in or on the Wirral are the granite boulders that are littered in Bebington and Bromborough that where carried down from the Lakes District in Glaciers during the last Ice Age.

I reckon that the oldest creature known to have lived in Wirral was the Chirotherium whose fossilised tracks were found in Storeton Woods:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storeton
(see final paragraph of Storeton Quarries And Tramway).

They were found in the quarry not the woods
The quarry was also the site of the discovery of dinosaur footprints, the species was named Chirotherium Storetonese after the site of discovery. Examples of these footprints can be seen in World Museum Liverpool in Liverpool and the Williamson Art Gallery in Birkenhead, and also in Christ church, Kings Road, Bebington.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storeton

As a kid in the late sixties I played in the only 2 quarries that had not been filled in they were oppesite the woods one was very big and deep the other was small but deep i fell in to the small one trying to climb up the face of it luckerly they had started to dump waste in there and I landed on a load of plastic of cuts from stork margarine tubes

Oldest Hospital is Saint Caths but it is part day hospital and part nursing home. There are no old cinemas still in use as cinemas, the ABC on Argyle st. is now a snooker hall and fitness centre, the old Cannon on Conway St s now Slices night club and the old cinema on Park road east (don't know what it was called) is now a furniture shop

Welcome to Wiki, tombro. Cinema on Park Rd. East was the Gaumont.
More info & pics in the "Cinemas" thread, further down the History page.

the one in Park Road East was The Gaumont
Never heard of the Cannon, I think you meant The Empire

As a matter of interest what cinemas are there now on the Wirral that are cinemas and which is the oldest now

Vue Cinemas Ltd Europa Boulevard, BIRKENHEAD
or
Odeon Cinemas Ltd Wirral Leisure Park, Welton Road, Bromborough
or
Vue Cheshire Oaks The Coliseum, Cheshire Oaks Outlet Village, Little Stanney, Ellesmere Port

Yes, the Empire was later the Cannon, then the Classic (or vice versa; can't remember). Oh, & the ABC was originally the Savoy.

If by oldest Church do you mean oldest still existing fabric? many chirch sites in Wirral are of Romano-British origin (likely late fourth early fifth century) with at least one of those Woodchurch likely to be built upon a Druid site with the continuity of religious practioce at the site going back well before the common era.

When topic first started I meant it to be a building still standing and in use for the purpose it was built for and being the oldest in Wirral

Then possibly Storeton Hall Farm (medieval)

I'm not sure whether it's within the Wirral boundaries but there is a church in Shotwick (just off the A550) which I think dates back to the 15th century.

Oldest postbox is the one in Asville road. I thin k there are o nly a few of this design in the country.

Oldest occupied house is Bird's house in Wallasey.

Bert's House?

I remember when I was at St Georges we would often get scientists engineers etc visiting the building and wandering around

Oldest house? Can anyone tell me how old Plymyard Manor in Eastham is(its called that on old OS maps - but we knew it as Abbey Grange)? Used to play round that way as a kid, and was told it was 13th Century or something. Cetainly looked very old - mullioned windows, etc.

Not to be confused with Plymyard Towers or Plymyard House - they went in the 60's/ 70's.

Its still there, but tucked away out of sight - can't find anything on Google tho...

earliest ancestor that was living in Wirral ( in your family tree )
mine was in 1850s(still researching though) - we're still classed as strangers

1880's from Ireland to Birkenhead then Seacombe.

If possible where from to where settled as well
1850s Reading Berks to Bromborough Pool then Rock Ferry then Birkenhead

I used to live in an old house in Park street, Neston. That was built in 1724, it has a plaque at high level & used to be the plough inn. I have a very old photo of it & will upload it in the next week so you can see it. I believe it was closed in 1926 then converted into houses. It had a large cellar carved out of the sandstone. The brewers arms a little further towards Neston was built earlier. There was a pub on Neston Cross called The White Horse that was even older still. There is also a book called Cheshire Churches & that can be really interesting as it refers to a lot of Wirral churches & gives a brief history of individual churches. My hobby is making local landmarks & I have started sculpting local churches which can be seen through the photo gallery. Some pubs to go on there too soon.

Very interesting,looking forward to the photo.

I've found an older house than Birds, Saughall Massie Village 1539. This was mentioned prviously but was thought to be 1589.

Well Done DD.

Thats for the Wirral mate.. Birds house is Wallasey only..

If you read back on the thread, a few people thought Birds House was the oldest inhabited house on the Wirral.

Of course it is temporarily uninhabited at the moment.

Have you any idea of the oldest currently inhabited house in Wallasey and/or the Wirral???

Ahh,that makes sense

Since 1st April 1928, Saughall Massie has been part of Wallasey.

How about 'Stone Bark' in Warren Drive, as being one of the oldest in Wallasey? Nobody really seems to know how old it is exactly but it's at least 300 years old. The Old Rectory in Wallasey Village is also pretty ancient.

Brimstage Hall must be one of the oldest in Wirral as it dates back to the 14th century. I know that Brimstage is mainly used for shop units now, but it also has living accommodation upstairs.

The oldest part of the present St Michael's Church in Shotwick is the Norman Arch of the South Doorway, this dates back to the 12th Century. Much of the rest of the Church dates to the 14th Century.

If the Church building is not the oldest in Wirral, then the interior surely must be. The church escaped the 'restoration' of the 19th century which destroyed most early Churches.

The box pews were probably installed in 1706, while the Churchwardens' pew dates from 1673 with the canopy being added in 1709. The three decker pulpit was installed in 1812 and came from a Church in Chester.

Great pictures, especially of the interior. It's never very easy getting the light right inside these kind of places.

Some of the stonework in the south wall of St Andrews in Bebington predates the norman conquest.

It's the North Wall, and there may be remains of wall paint, making these the oldest church paintings in Wirral to boot!

It is also the oldest continually running in the world

Anyone who has been on Hong Kong's Star Ferry service (a baby at being started in 1888) will see a similarity between it and the old Mersey ferries that I remember from the 1960s (and probably earlier).

Yep, the old Wanchai ferry was very much like the Mersey ferry, made me feel quite homesick. Only joking, Honky Phid was great.

Ah! Aggie Westons!

Your mention of the Mersey Cottages made me wonder if they're anything to do with the Concertina Cottages which stood where St Joseph's School now stands, on Wheatland Lane. On this link(http://www....co.uk/wallasey/seacombe/index.html) scroll down and you'll see a floor plan of one - very ingenious, hexagonal with central chimney.

My gr.gr.gr. grandfather Robert Grimes 1783-? born in Bromborough.
My gr.gr.gr.grandfather Samuel Moulton was born in Little Sutton (not sure of date yet). His son Joseph Moulton also from Little Sutton 1831-1894 married Alice Grimes born in Bromborough 1838-1922. Their daughter Elizabeth Moulton born Bromborough 1857-1913. Their daughter Ruth Moulton Williams 1890-1976 born Rock Ferry. Their daughter (my mother) born 1915 in Rock Ferry.
James Williams 1859-1908 born Higher Bebington married Elizabeth Moulton on 4th Jan. 1881 at St. Paul's Tranmere.
Mark Rose 1790-1841 born in Runcorn married Mary Thompson 1790-? married on 19th Feb 1811 at All Saints Church Runcorn. and so on ad infinitum...

Do I have the earliest ancestors to reside in Wirral?

You are definately in the running.
The earliest that I know of is the resident of Thurstatson Hall.
The house dates back to Norman Times and has always been lived in by the same family

Think I miss out then. What a bummer!!!!

But does it count if he/she is not a wiki member?

I didn't know that was the rule,that you had to be a Wiki member.
But there could be two titles. Member and non-member!

It's just the oldest - whatever in Wirral
Possibly the oldest visitor on wikiwirral is snodvan's mother who I think is in her 90's

Oldest Skeleton from Wirral. Taken from
www.wirralhistory.net ..........there's a reconstruction picture to go with it.

Roman Leasowe Man

In July 2005 the Museum of Liverpool Life welcomed the return to the North West of a long-absent resident. The oldest surviving skeleton from Merseyside, found on the Wirral shore in 1864, had finally returned to the region. As part of the Living with the Romans exhibition, which ran from 23 July 2005 to 4 June 2006, the skeleton was borrowed from the Natural History Museum in London as the centrepiece of a display on our Romano-British ancestors. The skeleton was found by workmen repairing the embankment at Leasowe on the north Wirral coast. They came across the body laid out under a bed of peat. The owner of nearby Leasowe Castle, Sir Edward Cust, donated the remains to the Royal College of Surgeons in 1864. Eventually the skeleton found its way to the Natural History Museum in London where it was recently rediscovered by Dr Silvia Gonzalez, a scientist from Liverpool John Moores University. For over a century the skeleton was thought to be prehistoric, perhaps as old as 4000 BC. However, radiocarbon dating has shown that the skeleton is actually Roman in date. As such it is the only Roman skeleton from Merseyside.



A 21st century reconstruction of the skull. A reconstruction of the skull was commissioned for the 'Living with the Romans' exhibition. The skull was first scanned in three dimensions with a laser scanner by National Museums Liverpool's Conservation Technologies team.

The plans for the building were never put down on paper Emslie Morgan kept the plans in his head and died with out passing on the system and scientists from all over the world came to St Georges to try and work out how he had done it .

i believe the oldest church building to be the one in wallasey village, St. Hillary's Church.

I'd love to know what evidence there is for the Druids on the Wirral!!!

The Tudor tower at St.Hilary's certainly makes it one of the oldest buildings on the Wirral, but it's not that dissimilar to the tower at St.Oswalds, Bidston.

There are a number of church sites (including Woodchurch, Overchurch, St.Hilary's, and Bromborough) which are certainly very ancient. Woodchurch is one of the most interesting, but any links to druidism are probably very speculative.

How is this possible when Leasowe didn`t even exist until around 1940?

It was all marshland and before then the sea went over it. (pity it still didn`t really).

I think Sea levels have changed quite substantially over the centuries.

Judging by the evidence of the submerged forrest at Meols/Dove Point, the north Wirral coastline once extended much further out than it does at present.

Cheshire Cheese is the oldest cheese being made in England (ref wikipedia)
Does anywhere on Wirral make it?

the Wirral's not in Cheshire !...(lights blue touch paper and retires)

Yes it is. it has always been in Cheshire although is was in Merseyside for a few years.

PB

The majority of Cheshire cheese is made in Shropshire, around Whitchurch.

I always thought the Wirral was Merseyside too!

Wirral used to be part of Cheshire until the government made boundary changes (1970s?) which lumped it with Liverpool(which was part of Lancashire) and called it Merseyside

I think you'll find it was also part of Mercia for quite a long time before it ever became Cheshire!

Indeed, The post codes were changed to L when we came under Merseyside, for example L41 would now be CH41, which I think actually denoted Chester and the L denoted Liverpool.

PB

But that was well before our time, the post code changes were quite recent on comparison.

PB

Interesting Thread.

The Wirral has CH Postcodes

The CH postcode area, also known as the Chester postcode area,is a group of postcode districts near the England/Wales border. Having previously roughly covered the former Chester district and present-day Flintshire county, postcodes for the Wirral Peninsula (CH41-CH66) were transferred to it in 1999 from the L postcode area. It includes Birkenhead, Chester, Ellesmere Port, Neston, Prenton and Wallasey in England and Bagillt, Buckley, Connah's Quay, Flint, Holywell and Mold in Wales. (From Wikipedia)

CH District Postcodes

L District Postcodes

Why we are changing postcodes - Royal Mail

Put's Flack Jacket On.....

The Royal Mail doesn't govern us and the post codes mean nothing .... eg Dock Road, Wallasey comes under Birkenhead postal town and post code.

I recall that when it changed from L to CH postcodes, that each household recieved an A4 sheet of 'sticker address labels'.
Wonder how much that cost the Post Office?

Thanks for posting the PC info, very interesting

PB

lol yeah I remember that!

This could be the oldest poem or style of poetry, mentioning Wirral. possibly the second half of 14th century.
Extract taken from translated text of 'Sir Gawain and the Green Night'

Verse (30)



So this rider rode through the realm of Britain,
Sir Gawain in God's service: and to him it was no game.
He would lie down alone with no one to lead,
nor find before him any food that he liked,
Nor any help but his horse over hill and wood,
Nor any man but his Maker to make conversation --
till he neared the neighborhood of North Wales,
held all the isles of Anglesey on his left
and reached the river where its headlands rose
high near Holyhead, and held on across
through the Forest of Wirral. Few or none lived there
whom God could love, or a good-hearted man.
And he asked often, of all whom he met
if they could give him news of a green knight
or how he could get to the Green Chapel.
And they all said no, never in their lives
had they seen someone who was such a shade
as green.
The paths he would take were strange,
with little cheer to glean,
and his hopes would often change
till that chapel could be seen.


The whole is very long but very interesting, so I have provided the link.
http://alliteration.net/Pearl.htm

American spelling and modern place names - a bit odd?

Yes Moonstar, although if you open the link and read all the 'bunff' about it, you will understand why that is so.

Here you are Moonstar, text translation was taken from...

691now ridez þis renk þur3 þe ryalme of logres
692sir gauan on godez halue þa3 hym no gomen þo3t
693oft leudlez alone he lengez on ny3tez
694þer he fonde no3t hym byfore þe fare þat he lyked
695hade he no fere bot his fole bi frythez and dounez
696ne no gome bot god bi gate wyth to karp
697til þat he ne3ed ful noghe into þe norþe walez
698alle þe iles of anglesay on lyft half he haldez
699and farez ouer þe fordez by þe forlondez
700ouer at þe holy hede til he hade eft bonk
701in þe wyldrenesse of wyrale wonde þer bot lyte
[fol. 100]
702þat auþer god oþer gome wyth goud hert louied
703and ay he frayned as he ferde at frekez þat he met
704if þay hade herde any karp of a kny3t grene
705in any grounde þeraboute of þe grene clapel
706and al nykked hym wyth nay þat neuer in her lyue
707þay se3e neuer no segge þat watz of suche hwez
[bob]
708of grene
[wheel]
709þe kny3t tok gates straunge
710in mony a bonk vnbene
711his cher ful oft con chaunge
712þat chapel er he my3t sene

The poet Simon Armitage published a very good modern English version of the poem in 2007 and is still available . Published by Faber & Faber , ISBN978-0-571-22327-5 . He gives a good introduction and it is very readable ( not too happy with the disparaging references to the Wirral , though !).
A couple of years ago , Armitage filmed a documentary following the same route as the Green Knight and it was shown on one of the BBC channels - can't remember which one though .

I remember seeing it on BBC4.

Still available to watch on ye olde Youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74glI1lg1CQ

Not the oldest in Wirral, but obviously world class in Wirral.


"New Brighton Bathing Pool was opened on 13th June 1934 by Lord Leverhulme at a cost of £103,240 it was the largest aquatic stadium the world. 12,000 people attended the opening."

I wonder how many people attended the opening of Morrisons?

Have we had this one Derekdwc or anyone? Can't see it anywhere.

HoylakeThe town supports a permanent lifeboat station, manned by the RNLI. Initially founded in 1803 by the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, it is one of the oldest in the country.

The (Royal)British Legion in Park Road East, Birkenhead.
Not sure if this was the first building used by them in England.
When I visited there I was told that (Sir)Fredrick Lister (who died in Birkenhead) used to go to Bidston Hill and find ex soldiers sleeping rough who he would have taken to accommodation in a shed at the docks and then fed them.
Eventually he raised enough money to buy the building in Park Road East and use that

I think the oldest shop in Birkenhead still using it's name and trading may well be Pyke's the Jewellers in Grange Road.
What other shops or businesses are older on Wirral?

You may well be right about Pyke's (they have a branch in Shrewsbury now).
The other one I can think of, if it's still there, is Bernard's tools/ironmongery in Oxton Rd.

According to Wikipedia:

... "For a small shopping centre it is unusual in having four butcher's shops: the oldest (the oldest on Wirral)[citation needed] is the much respected Edge's, with the same family trading in New Ferry since it opened in the 1850s."..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ferry

Here's a pic of Edges in New Ferry taken in about 1880. Note the old Toll Bar gate in the background.

edge's the butchers new ferry close to the toll bar as it is known was there over 50yrs ago

What is the oldest school in Wirral still used as a school or a new school buiding built on the old school site.
Here are some Birkenhead 1899 schools but don't know if still exist and one on 1876 Town map

This is a bit confusing but maybe correct.

Birkenhead School founded and exclusively boys 1860 - 2000, when it went co-educational.

Birkenhead High Schol founded 1885 now Birkenhead High School Academy for girls.

Don't know if they are the same school split into two or if they are on the same site. Possibly one of them is.

Upton Hall Scool.
Founded 1849. Certainly is the same building 1863, not sure about previously to that.


The main building was built as an extension by the FCJ sisters following their purchase of Upton Hall in 1863. When built, it housed dormitories, classrooms and the dining hall.

http://www.upton.cx/History_Convent/

No connection, Granny. I was at Birkenhead School 1948-53. It's on Shrewsbury Rd.
Birkenhead High School (for girls) was in Devonshire Place.

Thanks Chris. That tells me two things:

a) I was wrong
b) You are older than I am!

Thanks for correction.

LOL, I'm older than pretty much everybody.

Chris, granny must be an incomer. Born and bred Birkonians know they have always been two seperate schools. Its only the last few years that the Birkenhead school has allowed female pupils and I think that is so as to get more money in the coffers.

jimbob.........

Beware jimbob, I do believe granny has a 10 paces strap and 20lbs of lead weighted handbag.
'Tis the oldest of its kind on Wirral

The weapon of choice for a lady of Granny's standing is an Accrington Nori in the handbag! She'd pole-axe you with one swing whilst still eating her cucumber sandwich with little finger crooked at the correct angle. A REAL Lady !!


Going I know. Yeh yeh yeh.....

Ouch, at the thought of the handbag

Are you ok?

Oldest bag in Wirral!

So do we know if Upton Hall School is the oldest in the same place ?

Next: Who is the oldest Wikiwirral member?
Please don't start fighting for recognition chaps.

Upton Hall School FCJ opened in 1849, but not on its present site, it was originally in Lingdale House in Claughton. The school and convent moved to Upton Hall in June, 1863.

Thanks Uptoncx. It may qualify for Derekdwc's original search. Let's hope so.

By the way, I'm pleased someboby is paying attention!

Do you think, Granny, that in these days of equality it is appropriate for a lady to ask a gentleman's age?

(I know we have one member older than I am).

Yes Chris, I do!
The gentleman get a few factual dates,let their mathematical brains do a couple of calculations, add them together, multiply by four and come up with a totally inaccurate estimate. Whilst the ladies, just ask outright! Far more logical, don't you think?.
Anyway, which ever way we look at it, there won't be any winners here will there?

Next

I've a good idea of granny's age, she let it slip on a previous post of hers.
Not saying she is the oldest female wikiwirral member though

Ha ha, Derekdwc, wondered who would pick up on that. It is of course early!!

Have you been wondering , all this time?

Nearer the bottom of the same page, is also a few words about the equine internment on Holt Hill.


http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-e...ire-and-cheshire-for-the-year--goo.shtml

Mthelred II. Penny. A fragment ; the centre only ; bust
to the right; no sceptre. Rev. Hand of Providence, on either
side the letters A and W, for Alpha and Onaega. (Second
occurrence of this type on Meols beach.)

Cnvt. A divided penny — half. Bust with sceptre to right.
Rev, OD ON LEI (Leicester) ; a voided cross and square with
pellets at each comer. (Meols beach.)

Silver. Mediaeval.

Wm, I or II. A divided penny — half. Bust full faced,
a star on each side^ £x an. Rev. A cross on a square and
pellets. (Meols beach.)

Henry II. Penny. Full face and sceptre, henricus rex.
Rev. A small double cross, with a small cross boton^ in each
angle, an — avd on ca (Canterbury.) (Meols beach.)

Henry III. A divided penny — half. Full face, no sceptre.
rex, and the numerals iii. Rev, A long cross to outer circle,
three pellets in the angles, on. (Meols beach.)

Henry III. A divided penny — half. Full face with
sceptre, the numerals iii. Rev. Long cross, vnd. (London.)
(Meols beach.)

Henry III. A divided penny — quarter. The half still
being folded for the purpose of division. (Meols beach.)

Henry III. Penny. Full face and sceptre, henricvs rex.
Rev, Long cross, three pellets in each angle, nicole on cant.
(Canterbury.) (Meols beach.)

Edward I or II. Penny. Full face, edward r. angl.
DNS. HYB. Rev, Cross and pellets, vill. sci edmvndi. (St.
Edmundsbury.) (Meols beach.)

Crown and sceptres in saltire. Oct. 1689. (Found in a garden
near the Meols station, Hoylake railway.)



Digitized by VjOOQ IC

Eye Cottage down by the road to Penny Bridge is, I believe, the oldest inhabited cottage in the Wirral.

I always believed it to be Birds House on the corner of Limekin Lane and Mill lane, opposite Poulton Vics. You learn something everyday..

Bird’s House

http://www.historyofwallasey.co.uk/wallasey/A_to_Z_of_Wallasey_Buildings/index.html

Located on the west side of Limekiln Lane which was built in 1697, which makes it Wallasey’s oldest inhabited house. The house was the home of William and Mary Bird. William was a Yeoman and a Churchwarden of St. Hilary’s. [IMAGE]

Some of that information is incorrect Zipper. Not your fault.

The Wm Bird who was yeoman /church warden, died in 1663. His son married Margery Gill of Liscard, and at no time in the 1600's was there a Mary married to a William Bird.

There's a brilliant thread 'Birds House' on here which all the wonderful historians of Wiki deducted some interesting stuff.

I'd say if the Battle of Brunanburh took place on the Wirral than the oldest poem would be the one that accompanies it, it's taken a lot of research to try and work out the location but they seem to have cracked it as being in Bromborough, I've done some looking at things and believe it could have been nearer to Eastham based on the translation of the poem and names.

As for the oldest family, there's a book out (and a copy in Moreton Library which I've just returned) called Viking Mersey by Stephen Harding, and towards the end of the book there's a list of surnames that existed on the Wirral in the mid 18th century, I know people with a couple of the surnames on there, but only had a quick skim through them, mainly the names Wainwright and Lennard, but how long they've been around on the Wirral I don't know.

Anyway, on the topic of libraries, which of the ones on the Wirral is the oldest?

I had ancestors in Bromborough 1650, family name Sparks, there are a lot of descendants still living in Wirral.

I'm sure there was someone on here a while back looking for connections to the Sparks family. It wasn't you was it locomotive ?

Found it, but it won't let me copy and paste. Under Eastham Windmill.

No real evidence proving a Wirral location;whilst Steven Harding says it is Wirral , Michael Wood suggests South Yorkshire.Whilst I would love it to be Bromborough I don't think it has been proved at all.

Going back to this post of March 2013..... I believe it was Rudebox who was more recently enquiring about the grave of a horse in Tranmere. This is the extract which would possibly give a near date, due to a coin found in the same plot. Just in case it was missed

...........................

Singular Equine Interment on Holt Hill, Tranmere.

We are indebted to Mr. W. Lownsborough, surveyor, of
Tranmere, for the subjoined notice.

A Mr. Getley lately purchased a piece of land, on the top
of Holt Hill, and nearly opposite the Nunnery, from the
trustees of W, W. Perry, Esq. This plot, about twenty years
ago, was an unenclosed common, with furze bushes growing
upon it, and had never been disturbed within the memory of
man. However, in digging the foundations of some houses,
the workmen came upon three large slabs of stone, about two
h2

Digitized by VjOOQ IC

100

feet below the surface ; these formed the covering of a grave,
carefully hewn in the solid rock, about 8 feet long, 4 feet
broad, and 3 feet deep, and which was found to contain the
bones of a horse, accompanied by a quantity of dry material
like tinder. Upon searching among the last, a copper coin
was found, almost defaced by wear and rust, but which proves
to be a halfpenny of William and Mary. There was likewise
disclosed the handle of a sword, the heft of which is of bone,
carved in a reticulated manner, whilst the strig and rivets are
of iron.

I think that I have somewhere read, that William III, on
his journey to or from Ireland, stayed at the Old Hall,
Tranmere,* and halted on this hill ; if so, I think it very
probable that the steed must have been a favourite of one of
his troopers, and died either from the effect of recent wounds
in Ireland, or sudden illness after crossing the channel —
possibly a combination of both. The deposition of the coin
is, to my mind, an excellent mode of handing down the date
of the animal's death to future generations.

Gayton Mill. Finished working in 1875 and said to be one of the oldest 'tower' mills.

Cannot find anything about how old it is and it has been converted into a home.
http://hiddenwirral.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/gayton-mill-oldest-of-wirral.html



The ancient mill at Gayton is said to be the oldest tower windmill on the peninsula. There is a huge difference between this type of mill and the old peg mill which is that the upper section of the sails rotate with the wind as apposed to the peg mill which meant that the whole structure had to be turned by the miller to face the wind. The mill today has been completely renovated into a modern dwelling which is now privately owned. The structure itself is built from fine red sandstone most likely from Runcorn and at one time had four large sails over looking the small hamlet. The mill ceased to work in 1875 and by 1905 had lost all of its sails due to neglect. The elements took its toll on the old building and it was looking like the structure would have to be demolished by most others in Wirral. Luckily a local builder came to the rescue and heavily refurbished the mill restoring it to its natural beauty but this time as a residential building. The tower of the old mill is now connected to what was once the old millers cottage which stood directly opposite to house his family. Records show that the miller was bringing up sixteen of his own children in the old cottage prior to the building being closed.

Hello Granny, no it wasn't me, having no luck searching for Eastham Windmill, any hints and tips welcome

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums...m_windmill_16th_&_17.html#Post813191

Thanks Bert1 and Granny, I have posted a reply to the Eastham Windmill thread, could be interesting, Regards Locomotive

i think the harp on neston marshes is the oldest pub in the wirral

The Wheatsheaf at Raby (as mentioned earlier in this thread) predates the Harp but I suspect that may not be the oldest either.

Is WikiWirral the oldest community forum on the Wirral?

Pretty sure its is the oldest general community Wirral forum, there are a couple of specialist Wirral groups that might predate it, one even predates the internet and was active in the BBS days but there were some breaks.

Have either the Wheatsheaf or the Harp been rebuilt ? Just wondering as the Fox and Hounds in Barnston is said to have been on the place of a pub going back to 16th century, the first recorded licensee dates back to before 1561 and his name was Thomas Baylye, although rebuilt in 1911.

Picture pre re-build and after . Basic structure looks the same.

The oldest pub on the Wirral is the Harp (but not the one at Neston) it is the Harp at Tranmere and although the present building is over two hundred years old, the foundations and cellar are much older and there has been an inn on this site for 800 years at least.

But the Harp (Tranmere) isn't a pub.

It was a pub though DD think it's been turned into a shop now? Is that the one by monkey steps?

Its the general store and off licence across the road from the monkey steps, used to be the Prince William

Oh I only ever remember that called The Harp when it was a pub.

It was renamed by some individual for his own reasons having been known as The Harp for centuries. He knew as much about running a pub as he did about the fallacy of mixing politics with business and it soon closed. Open or not, it still stands and remains the oldest known pub on the Wirral.

How old is this map ?

I'd guess its Saxton's 1578 as it looks slightly earlier than his 1610 map?

Here's a better copy of it, still not sure which one it is though.

Oldest road in Wirral still used today?
Could Street Hey Lane in Willaston be a possibility as it is suspected to be an old Roman road.
I cannot find the first recorded road.

There are plenty of sections of Roman Roads still in use in Wirral, for the title of oldest road you would have to define "road" as undoubtedly some roads overlay saxon roads which would be little more than mud tracks in places.

Roads still in use today. Any maps with a road names on like this one of Castle St, Old Hall St, Dale St, Water St and Castle St in Liverpool still standing today.


Pic from Wikipedia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Original_7_streets_of_Liverpool.jpg

Grange Road, Birkenhead, was originally the road leading from Birkenhead Priory to the monks' grange, or granary, in Oxton. The priory was founded circa 1150.

That makes a lot of sense yoller. Does anyone know when we started naming the roads?

Generally at the same time as streets of houses were built, prior to that the roads were named after the buildings/farms/people that were on them or the places they led to, even then a lot of the road names weren't formalised and some would change.

The turnpikes had some bearing on road names as well and were sometimes named after the person who owned the turnpike rights.

Until local councils in one form or another came about (for taxation) it was quite haphazard. You'd have two rows of workers cottages on the same stretch of road yet the names of the cottages were used to describe the road and hence two names used for the same road.

The first formalisation of issuing English road names wasn't until about 1850 although acceptance of road names dates long before that. Directories including road names started in the early 1700s

That map above is the earliest (as far as I know) map with the few roads in Liverpool, I just cannot find one of anywhere in Wirral. If I do find a map it is not legible.
Do any directories cover the 1700's or early 1800's? Or are there any maps?

Doing a quick search - 1827 is the first directory where any Wirral (Borough) street names are used so it must have been mapped before that. Neston and Parkgate may have earlier.

There are directories for Liverpool (1766) and Chester (1789) with street names.

The above may not be accurate and It will probably take me too long to go through maps properly however the "Birkenhead Plan" map with road names was 1844, there was an earlier one in 1824 which had a small number road names (Chester Street, Abbey Street, Church Street), I think the Liverpool equivalent was 1799.

And just found another with a lot of Birkenhead Road names, 1835 Bennison map

I have been reading 'Outline Plan For The County Borough Of Birkenhead' (1945) and in that it states Cammell Lairds started in Vittoria St 1824 so I would imagine there was quite a few others at that time like Cleveland and Corporation Rd.

I'm not so sure, the population of Birkenhead in 1821 was only 200, it was Laird who developed Birkenhead 1824 and onwards.

The Great Float didn't come about until 1850 partly because of Liverpool buying up land to ensure it wouldn't compete with Liverpool docks.

Thats what I thought at first but then the book states he had to move from Vittoria St so they could build the docks. Maybe there was moorings in Wallasey pool.
Off Wikipedia
"Founding of the business
The Laird company was founded by William Laird, who had established the Birkenhead Iron Works in 1824."

More off Wiki

I don't think Laird has ever owned any docks, they either rented the docks (like they still do now) or contracted work out to other ship builders/ironworks.

Liverpool owned the land from Tower Road round to Argyle Street, then another section from Woodside to Monk's Ferry. There may be more down the Pool but I can't find that information

A bit of guesswork but Birkenhead might have played clever, although Liverpool owned the land, they might not have owned Wallasey Pool and land was recovered to build some of the docks etc within the pool, specifically there was "The Birkenhead Dock Trustees" (Morpeth Dock) and "Birkenhead Dock Company" (Victoria Wharf). But of course these are goods docks, not shipbuilding docks.

The Rollson/Clover docks (or whatever they were at the time) were a Liverpool Company that were built on Liverpool land.

Help here,


https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums...3/history-of-corporation-road-query.html

Here is a snippet from 'Steel, Ships and Men: Cammell Laird, 1824-1993' that also confirms the sale of land to Liverpool. By the looks of those Bennison maps, Corporation Rd must have been moved to Bridge St when the docks where built.

Corporation Road stayed where it was, as did Bridge Street, the docks were built by reclaiming land from Wallasey Pool.

Had another look and I would say that Corporation Rd is now Canning St.

No, Corporation Rd now ends at Rendel St if you turn left to the roundabout that takes to you towards the docks, Canning St (A554) starts and goes towards Woodside.

Previously, c1874-1890 map

Corporation Rd ended at Goods Shed near Freeman St

I should have said, off the map from Derek, in the link you posted above Bert.
Canning St is Corporation Rd on that map, so it would have incorporated some of Tower Rd as well.

I tend to think of Corporation Road as the parts with the 10/12 foot wall running along it ( any ideas when this wall was built? )
re roads, streets, lanes. On the 1831 Bryant map there are quite a few lanes marked and named ( some of which may have changed to a street or road eg Church lane to church Road )
Main Roads don't seem to be named - Old Chester Road
Not sure on the map what New Road is ? (Claughton Road into Oxton Road into Woodchurch Road ( was Slush Lane?)

I can only give evidence from 1841 census that Canning Street existed, 6 years after the map. I can only add, why would they change the name for that portion from Corporation Rd to Canning Street. I would question how reliable the map is when all road names are not mentioned on it.

The 1824 Lawton map of Birkenhead is probably the earliest detailed map of the the town – or hamlet, as it then was. It was drawn up for prospective purchasers when the Lord of the Manor, Francis Price, put the Birkenhead estate up for sale to encourage its development as a resort.

Between 1819 and 1821, Price had built St Mary’s Church next to the priory ruins and a nearby waterfront hotel, as well as establishing a new ferry to Liverpool – the Birkenhead Ferry –on the edge of Tranmere Pool.

On the 1824 map, only four streets are named – Church Street, Priory Street, Abbey Street and Chester Street.

Grange Road (also known as Grange Street/Grange Lane) is also clearly marked. Strangely though, it is not given a name.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Grange Road must have been established soon after the priory was built circa 1150, because it was the route to the monks’ grange, or granary, in Oxton.

A contender for the oldest street must be Chester Street, leading down to Woodside. There was probably a ferry crossing at Woodside going back a long time before the priory was given the ferrying rights by Edward III in 1330.

Church Street, leading to the priory, is also probably a very old name. Although St Mary’s church was opened in 1821, the priory had been a house of worship since its founding in 1150 and its chapter house was still used for services following the Dissolution of the Monsteries in 1536.

Also on the 1824 map is marked a tract of land on the south bank of Wallasey Pool bought by the Scottish-born businessman William Laird. This was where he established his boilermaking works, which later developed into the famous shipbuilding yard. The Lairds’ first house in Birkenhead was at the north end of what later become Cathcart Street, before the family moved to Hamilton Square.

The Laird yard, between the northern ends of what later became Vittoria Street and Livingstone Street, can clearly be seen on the 1844 map of Birkenhead, marked as Boiler Yard.

Not far to the east of the Boiler Yard is a ‘Patent Slip’. This was a second shipyard opened in 1826 on Wallasey Pool by a group of journeymen shipwrights from Liverpool. A patent slip, also known as a marine railway, allows vessels to be hauled in and out of the water along an inclined plane on a cradle attached to pulleys.

It’s also interesting that by 1844, just 20 years after the Lawton map, Birkenhead was laid out with numerous streets as the town continued to develop and expand.

In 1853, with Wallasey Pool becoming enclosed to build the docks, Laird’s shipyard (the Birkenhead Ironworks) moved temporarily to Liverpool. Then the yard was transferred to the riverfront below Birkenhead Priory, between Tranmere Pool and Monks Ferry. The foreshore here was owned by Liverpool Corporation, which leased it to Laird’s.

Construction of four graving docks, slipways, machinery shops, boiler shops joiners’ shops and smiths’ shops began, continuing the destruction of the once-pristine shoreline.

North of the new Laird’s yard, development was extended along the riverfront, with graving docks built between Monks Ferry and Woodside, later to be used by the ship repair firm Grayson, Rollo and Clover.

Some very interesting info there yoller, cheers. That confirms the date of what I read in 'Outline Plan For The County Borough Of Birkenhead 1945' of Lairds on Vittoria St 1924.
Regarding the oldest road, from what you say, I would suspect Grange Rd will be the oldest, just because the monks would only need the one road to and from the granary if they were self sufficient.

Derek, regarding the wall on Corpo, it is certainly pre 1933 because you can see it on a Britain from above picture.

Here are the maps I was referring to ...1. Lawton, Birkenhead 2.Lawton, Wallasey Pool 3. Laird Boiler Yard 1844 4. Wider view of 1844

Hargrave Lane next to Bromborough Golf Course is Roman, I've seen a much more complete version of this article focusing on Wirral by a female author but can't find it now.

http://cheshiretrove.com/current/history/romans/roads_chester.html

Here's the link I found Street Hey Lane to be a possible Roman rd still being used today, but it is inconclusive.
It doesn't really mention other big finds on the Wirral.
http://www.romanroads.org/gazetteer/cheshire/M670.htm

On the 1844 map yoller posted, Corporation Rd extends further to what is Tower road today. You can just about make out 'ning street' on the bottom left of the map for Canning St which isn't on the 1835 map. But saying that, a lot of the streets aren't named on that map, and where it has Laird St marked, it looks like it is where Cathcart St is today.

This map may be of help. It was printed in October 1844, showing the plans for the new Birkenhead docks. I've copied sections of it and then the whole thing. It should be legible if you zoom in on it.

Proposed maps are fascinating comparing them to the actual layout and street names of today.
It took me a minute before I realised I was looking south.
Cracker yoller, cheers.

It’s interesting to see the original dock proposals on the 1844 map and to remember how things eventually turned out very differently.

In 1827, the land bordering Wallasey Pool had been bought up by William Laird and Sir John Tobin. They then devised a scheme for docks there, linked to a cross-Wirral ship canal from the Dee near West Kirby.

Liverpool Corporation, fearful of a rival for its dock trade, panicked and bought out Laird and Tobin at an inflated price, promising that it would itself develop Wallasey Pool. But nothing was done.

Then in 1843, in need of fresh finances, the corporation decided to sell the land, which was snapped up by Birkenhead business tycoon William Jackson, John Laird – William Laird’s son – and other investors for a total of £320,000.

Then on November 7, 1843, Jackson dramatically announced to the Birkenhead improvement commissioners the ambitious new scheme for building docks.

The basic plan was to enclose Wallasey Pool by a dam across its mile-wide mouth between Seacombe and Woodside. Along a large part of the frontage, land would be reclaimed to be profitably developed.

The pool would then be turned into a huge 120-acre ‘inland sea’ of navigable water, docks, quays, railway sidings and warehouses called the Great Floating Dock, or the Great Float, divided into the East and West Floats.

The most ambitious part of the scheme was the construction of a massive low water basin on the seaward side of the dam.

This 37-acre harbour was supposed to enable ships to berth safely whatever the state of the tide or the time of day, offloading passengers or cargo. Vessels would be able to enter and leave the Great Float via locks in the basin. The cost of the whole enterprise was estimated at around £4million.

In 1844, the foundation stone of the docks was laid by Cheshire MP Sir Philip Egerton and a general holiday declared for Birkenhead.

Streets were decorated, church bells rang and there was a grand fireworks display in Argyle Street. Banquets were held and bread and beef handed out to the poor, while children were given buns and fruit.

Three years later, at noon on Easter Monday, April 5, 1847, Birkenhead’s first two docks were opened by Lord Morpeth, having cost £2million.

One dock, the Morpeth, was named after Lord Morpeth, while the other, the Egerton, was named after Sir Philip Egerton.

Lord Morpeth, the 7th Earl of Carlisle, was the First Commissioner of Woods and Forests, representing the Crown. When the Morpeth Dock was being planned, it was found the proposed site was Crown land and he helped smooth over the legal difficulties, allowing the project to proceed. So the dock was named in his honour.

The two docks were to provide a temporary entrance into the Great Float for shipping until the dam and low water basin were built.

Later that same Easter Monday, 56,000 people gathered in Birkenhead Park amid driving rain to see it officially opened by Lord Morpeth. It was a great day of hope and optimism in the town’s history.

But a few months later, overspending, financial mismanagement, suspected fraud and technical incompetence on the docks scheme came home to roost amid a nationwide financial slump.

Almost £250,000 had been wasted on the project, and it was halted by midsummer for lack of funds. To the horror of investors, the Birkenhead Dock Company’s coffers were found to be empty and, with some Merseyside banks forced to close as the recession deepened, the company could borrow no more money.

One of the main issues was that the dam and low water basin, designed by engineer James Rendel, was hugely over-ambitious. The whole project was dogged by technical problems, which ate up the available finance.

As dock building was suspended, other development work was abandoned in Birkenhead, unemployment soared, and thousands left the town in search of work elsewhere. Things were made worse as the Laird shipyard saw orders dry up.

In 1852, the famous railway-building contractor Thomas Brassey – who had strong connections with Birkenhead – became involved with the ailing docks scheme, pledging to complete the dam across Wallasey Pool and excavate the low water basin. But in 1854, his dam collapsed in a storm and he quit, having invested large amounts of his own money.

In 1856, a new engineer, John Hartley, took charge of the docks scheme. He redesigned it to incorporate a second entrance from the river through three locks, north of the planned low water basin entrance. This was to prove a vitally important decision.

In the wake of the 1847 mismanagement crisis and financial crash, the docks were transferred to the control of the new Mersey Docks and Harbour Board and work began to revive their development. The board also took charge of Liverpool docks.

In 1860, the Great Float opened to shipping. But trade was sparse because the planned entrances via the low water basin and the three-lock system further north were not yet built and vessels had to go in through the restrictive Morpeth and Egerton docks.

By 1864, the low water basin was almost complete, but now covered only 14 acres instead of 37 acres originally planned in 1843.

It was supposed to be scoured daily by sluices which, when opened, sent up to 200million gallons of water gushing down from the Great Float at 20mph and along the bottom of the basin in a wide jet to clear mud and silt.

But during the first months of use, it became obvious that the sluices were failing to scour the basin properly. Deposits were merely being moved along to the riverside end of the harbour, where they built up. In addition, the daily outrush of water from the Great Float was destabilising shipping berthed there and threatened to undermine the foundations of the sluices.

More than 20 years after it was first designed, and despite all the time and money spent on building it, the low water basin was a failure and would eventually have to be abandoned.

But in 1866, the eight-acre Alfred Dock opened along the East Float, named after Queen Victoria’s son Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh.

Linked to the Mersey by the three locks added to the original docks project by engineer John Hartley in 1856, it finally provided a workable entrance to the Great Float for shipping, and the fortunes of the Birkenhead docks at last started to pick up.

In 1878, the ill-fated low water basin was closed off from the Mersey and converted into the Wallasey Dock.

Here's the map that backs up most of that. Sorry I've not been adding many attachments recently but I've been on the wrong computer and I am not good at juggling too many keyboards and mice.

I wonder what Jackson and Lairds working relationship was like because they were political rivals and I believe they often fell out over politics.