Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,388
Posts1,033,410
Members14,622
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
12 members (4 invisible), 7,898 guests, and 421 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,792
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
Dunty152, Placidusax, Missyroberts, sea16, AndyHHoward
14,622 Registered Users
New General Forums
New here
by MissBo - 25th May 2024 4:29pm
New Wirral History
Powell Street Photo
by AndrewR - 22nd Jun 2024 9:09am
Abbots tv repair shop, Birkenhead
by muzzy2 - 13th Jun 2024 5:56pm
Quest International
by diggingdeeper - 15th Jul 2023 10:40pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
Gibbo 4
muzzy2 3
montyz 3
Topic Replies
Missing People
by Gibbo - 24th Jun 2024 3:33pm
Lifeschool Wallasey
by diggingdeeper - 23rd Jun 2024 5:40pm
garage wanted
by robin47 - 23rd Jun 2024 11:43am
Powell Street Photo
by AndrewR - 22nd Jun 2024 2:04pm
New here
by Fidelio - 21st Jun 2024 10:04pm
Universal Thermocouples brand new
by dodie - 21st Jun 2024 7:56pm
Make New Ferry Great Again
by Excoriator - 21st Jun 2024 2:42pm
Abbots tv repair shop, Birkenhead
by muzzy2 - 19th Jun 2024 10:05am
Cambridge A1 Special Edn Amplifier VGC £50 Oxton
by montyz - 18th Jun 2024 5:04pm
June
M T W T F S S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
muzzy2 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
casper 4
Mark 4
granny 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 13 1 2 3 12 13
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,487
Likes: 1
Green Meanie
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Green Meanie
Wiki Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,487
Likes: 1
People who are caught dropping and leaving litter behind in public in Wirral will be hit with an on-the-spot fine from new enforcement officers.

Wirral Council have appointed Kingdom Ltd to provide environmental enforcement services in the borough giving them responsibility for enforcing legislation around litter left on streets and in parks and other open spaces.

From the 1st July, a team of enforcement officers from Kingdom will be out and about targeting those anti-social people who don’t dispose of their litter in a responsible way. Anyone observed dropping and leaving litter will receive an immediate, on-the-spot penalty of £80.
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/news/24-06-2015/spot-fines-litter-be-enforced

Last edited by Mark; 3rd Oct 2015 5:35pm. Reason: renamed

[Linked Image] Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
Google Ads
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
£6400 made in Birkenhead alone today!

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
That doesn't surprise me. My daughter was find £80 in Maidstone this year, for putting a cigarette stump in the gutter.

She now knows better, without being told. Serves her right.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 506
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 506
I hate litter bugs! I hate it when you`re on the motorway and somebody throws a load of rubbish out the window like McDonald's wrappers. Who do these people expect to pick it up? Would they like their mum, dad, son or daughter to litter pick on the motorway for the minimum wage?

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Good luck to 'em. No excuse for chucking litter about.

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Isn't this just another way of creating revenue ? Wouldn't it be a better deterrent and more effective punishment to give them a days compulsory work picking litter up ? If they had to pick up other people's crap they might think twice about dropping it.

P
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
P
Originally Posted by Dilly
Isn't this just another way of creating revenue ? Wouldn't it be a better deterrent and more effective punishment to give them a days compulsory work picking litter up ? If they had to pick up other people's crap they might think twice about dropping it.


Ideally the fine AND made to litter pick! mad

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
They'll only need to park their arrises by Park Station and they will make a fortune. Disgusting considering it's the gateway station to Birkenhead Park and people visit it because of it's historical significance. The side avenues in PRN are used as car clean up facilities by commuters and shoppers who just throw their junk into the gutter before heading off to Upton, Claughton and other salubrious localities, leaving us with their shoit. It's a wind up. somad


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
I was waiting at the lights by the fire station yesterday & some woman in the car in front threw her fag out the car window hate to think what some of these peoples houses look like


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,684
Wiki Addict
Offline
Wiki Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,684
i wish they would start to fine men who spit and snot on the pavements as its absolutely disgusting mad


[Linked Image]
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,056
Likes: 2
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,056
Likes: 2
Yes I,m with you on that Rocks,it's absolutley foul! Makes me feel sick..

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
thought there was a bylaw against spitting but I think it's disgusting too


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 156
Enthusiast
Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 156
Are these Litter Wardens easy to spot? I mean do they wear any sort of uniform?.

I have just been up to Liscard and the place is strewn with litter as usual, and I have never seen one of these Warden people since the rules came in.
Or are they all assigned to Birkenhead?

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
I saw a couple of them on the croft on the first couple of days,they were taking details down from one of the workers from smyths.Wondered what they were doing,they had skye blue looked like polo tops on,I take it they were the litter wardens


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Id sooner tread on a Mcdonalds bag than a pile of dog turd..cant they get there priorities right. Nil fines collected for lazy dog owners.


Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 298
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 298
Totally agree fish.

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Nothing is ever said about dogs urinating in the streets, which can often be on someones gateway. Maybe dog owners should be made to carry a squeezy bottle with a solution of water and disinfectant to wash it away.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
My dog wees over grids,I didn't teach her maybe her previous owner or while she was in the kennels


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
That's great Star but a lot of owners seem to think it's acceptable to let them wee wherever they choose to stop.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,447
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,447
We could try planting more Trees smile

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Originally Posted by Vanmanone
We could try planting more Trees smile

That's only a solution for the men dogs smile

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Mines a girl dog but she can cock her leg on a tree if no grids available


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Originally Posted by starakita
Mines a girl dog but she can cock her leg on a tree if no grids available

That's girl power going too far smile

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Originally Posted by Vanm anone
We could try planting more Trees smile
we dont even have public conveniences

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Dilly
Nothing is ever said about dogs urinating in the streets, which can often be on someones gateway. Maybe dog owners should be made to carry a squeezy bottle with a solution of water and disinfectant to wash it away.


Does anyone remember when a dog piddled on a gatepost, how it was considered as disgusting ? To see the trace of trickle down the post, was frowned upon and steered clear of. The mums (always the mums) would come out with their scrubbing brush and a bowl of Aunt Sally Disinfectant and scrub the gatepost, step, and surrounding pavement.
That was when dogs were allowed to wander the streets, willy nilly.

How standards have dropped, but it's much better they are now restricted to owners walking them, providing the owners are responsible, which I think most are. There are some though, who would be prepared to abandon any form of respect for others. I reckon there are a few on here too. They tend to hide when such subjects are discussed. wink


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Source Click Me

More than 98% of those given fixed penalty notices for dropping litter in the borough were disposing of cigarette-related items - mainly cigarette ends - the statistics show.

So they have worked out where to make there money now.
£80,0000 in fines in one month !!!

I'm an EX Smoker, and it was the norm to just drop and stamp on it, i cant believe that this is there target audience now. I would love to here back from someone who has been fined and what they actually did if it was a cigarette with no where to put it out.

Times change i get that, but does this really mean on fireworks night if you set off a rocket your going to be fined for littering because its hot and you cant pick it up to put in a bit.

Littering to me, is throwing a bag of rubbish up a back entry or behind a wall, not a wrapper or a cigarette butt.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
1000 in a month is pretty intense, I would have thought.

It makes us wonder how many 'little Hitler litter spies' are out and about the roads, and how much of that money is going towards the salaries.

Must be to replace the revenue from spy cameras used to catch people parking in the wrong place.

Does this apply to cigarette ash too ? What about the leaves that blow from our trees and garden onto the road ?

To be honest, certain areas used to be quite bad for litter and when clean pavements are covered in chewing gum, it looks horrible. So if it makes people aware, then it has to be good. £80 is over the top.




Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 820
Wise One
Offline
Wise One
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 820
me and my mrs were walking through birkenhead the other day and she was smoking but there was nowhere for her to put her ciggy out so i just told her to throw it in the bin as if this is such a big target for these fines the council should make sure their is enough safe places to dispose of them to give people chance to avoid the fines and then if people fail to use the safe way provided they deserve to be fined!!

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
Whats up with docking it and putting it in an old ciggy packet and taking it home? the same as people do with their litter.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Think of this :

Following a person from say a sweet shop, you just done know how long they will take to eat or drink what they have bought, but follow someone with a cigarette for 10 mins and you have a result.

This is dirty tricks by the council, for me it does not send out the right message at all, if the campaign is about empty bottle and cans etc, how can they justify the 98% of fines towards smokers if there not trying to make as much money as they can.

Chewing gum, that has to be the worst offender, but that is going to take some time to follow a person etc.

For me this isn't a campaign about clean up the wirral this is targeting smokers as its easy money for the council to fine people.

I remember years ago on the lamp posts £1,000 fines for littering, but that did not include ciggarette buts. And no one really took any notice.

There fines do not represent as i would call rubbish which is how i would describe clean up wirral.

On that link it also states Just 90 fines were handed out between 2010 and 2015.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Online Content
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Mark
I would love to here back from someone who has been fined and what they actually did if it was a cigarette with no where to put it out.


Why should it be acceptable to just throw it on the floor? If you choose to smoke you need to think ahead about the waste it creates.

It might have been OK once, but it isn't any more and people have to get with the times and accept that and change their lifestyle to suit. Same with dogs. When I had a dog you could let it do its business anywhere.

If I eat a sandwich I don't throw the container or wrapper onto the floor just because there are no bins.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 574
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by Gibbo

Why should it be acceptable to just throw it on the floor? If you choose to smoke you need to think ahead about the waste it creates

withthat ... in spades.

You create the litter, you dispose of it or take it home. Simples. Yes, that includes ciggy butts. they look just as bad as chewing gum strewn all over the place.

And to the person who said more bins should be provided for butts - why should I, as a council tax payer, pay for you to clean up after your filthy habit?

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Mark
Littering to me, is throwing a bag of rubbish up a back entry or behind a wall, not a wrapper or a cigarette butt.


Littering is throwing any kind of rubbish on to the floor. Why should cigarette butts be exempt from littering. They look just as ugly all over the floor as wrappers.

The question is do you throw wrappers and cigarettes on the floor in your garden at home, if not then why should you do it in public places.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I'm shocked at the numbers 98% for cigarette fines.

I agree I think generally we are all more aware of litter etc, but in my opinion the whole campaign was about littering and to have the first months results in at 98% for smokers, i cant see how its a successful campaign, as there grip prior to the launch was littering but the results say smokers.

They eventually dropped fining dog owners for dog mess as it was not profitable, but they have hit the jack pot now.

Cigarettes its the best money spinner they have had in a long time.
We will see the same amount of litter everywhere else as only 2% have been fined for not cigarette offences.

I dont smoke, but as im reading it, its all about the money.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by peodude
Originally Posted by Mark
Littering to me, is throwing a bag of rubbish up a back entry or behind a wall, not a wrapper or a cigarette butt.


Littering is throwing any kind of rubbish on to the floor. Why should cigarette butts be exempt from littering. They look just as ugly all over the floor as wrappers.

The question is do you throw wrappers and cigarettes on the floor in your garden at home, if not then why should you do it in public places.


I guess im thinking of Cleaner Wirral, and from a visual point of vue.
to see 10 ciggy butts or 10 nappies i would see the nappies first.

Personally i don't litter, so its not something that's been on my mind, i've been recycling before we got the green brown grey bins.

My grip is that to me the council is being underhand about there littering campaign, where if the results were going to be as above, then it should be called "Stop That Butt"

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
They should follow cars leaving McDonalds etc, I regularly see people chucking food and rubbish from cars.

They do still fine for dog mess btw.

The bad news is the people who throw their rubbish into peoples gardens are now going to get it worse. Technically the Council can fine for this but are pretty unlikely to do so.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 244
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 244
£80,000 in fines collected in one month, more than was collected in several previous years. The reason for this is that the council are not doing the work themselves but have contracted the work out to a private country wide organisation Kingdom who provide similar services in other towns and cities including London, Wolverhampton, Tunbridge Wells and Havant in Hants.
On their web site it states that the fine for littering in Wolverhampton is £75,and there are 6 operatives on duty daily on £8 odd per hour. Kingdom get £45 of the fine and the council get £30, a very sweet deal for Kingdom.
So there is the answer WBC must have a similar deal with Kingdom. These guys are patrolling and they must have daily targets and smokers are the most prolific and easily spotted culprits so they get hit the hardest. The operatives cannot skulk round in disguise as the wear uniforms and have body cameras so they must be easy to spot.
WBC must be chuffed to bits to have acquired this revenue stream for little or no outlay and must be hoping it will carry on at this level indefinitely.
Personally I hate litter and have little sympathy with people who are too lazy to dispose of it properly, but think the fines are excessive and think they should be used on a sliding scale with a smaller amount for an initial offence as a warning before the full penalty is incurred. Any measures to keep our streets clean should be welcomed if they work, but do we approve of a private company cleaning up in both senses of the word. smile

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
What happens to those who are on benefits and cannot pay ? Do they have to go to court or do community service as a punishment ? I'm not sure how unpaid fines are dealt with in this situation. It would cost even more to process proceedings.

Taking the above quoted charges from other councils, it would seem that a figure is just being plucked out of the air.

Would hope the council is not making a profit out of this....Councils should not make profit and if they are setting money made from one project against another which needs bolstering, is not the way of doing accounts, because it still relies on profits to achieve that end.

If they are not making a profit, then they must be paying a massive amount to this contracted company and we should be asking about that.

Last edited by granny; 19th Aug 2015 1:37pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
People dropping litter turn the town into a sh*tty mess, the council is doing something about it and punishing those for their anti-social behaviour - and yet people moan about this???

That so many people have been fined shows how widespread the problem is - and its a good thing that the right message is being put across.

Obviously some people like litter and mess, in order to further satiate your desires, I can organise as much rubbish as you can cope with if you want it for your front garden, I can even get bin loads of fag ends delivered as some seem to think these are the most desirable.

Rubbish and litter cleaning costs US a fortune, these fines won't even touch the amount it costs US to clean up after these dirty people.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
We already pay our council tax towards cleaning the roads and pavements.
There is also a £1000 fine for dog fouling, but nobody ever seems to have administered that on any regular basis, if at all.
Cleaning dog muck off a kiddies sandal and socks, when they are on their way to school ,is pretty dreadful. Why not enforce that long standing law also ?

Nobody is saying nothing should be done, but £80 seems a steep fine for a cigarette butt, and unaffordable by unemployed.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
£80 is less than two weeks worth of fags! If they can afford the fags they can afford the fine.

I think £80 is a fair balance between affordability and punishment, the message has got to get across. I bet many of us will think twice as to whether we attempt to chase or not chase that bit of paper we dropped accidentally.

The cost of street cleaning to US is ridiculous (nearly £1m), something that reduces and offsets that cost has got to be good.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Yes, agreed. If they can afford the fags, then they could manage the fine, but it's not simply fags is it ?

The fines nationwide vary from £50 to £80, and e.g. Thameside Council calculate 12 tonnes of dog excrement a day. So what is costing more, dog's or smokers ?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I just think it is totally unbalanced, and the most guilty are getting away with it.

If this is a national purge, which it would appear to be , will the residents of the communities in the streets of Bradford and Leeds also be given these fines ? 16,000 flyers in Bradford were withdrawn in 2011, for fear of inciting racial hatred.

In my view it should be a national scheme, same price everywhere, and applicable to ALL offenders, no matter what the litter or deposits. Then everyone knows exactly what is expected of them and their family and friends.




Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
I was in New Brighton on Saturday lunch time with the dog & this dirty old git had just emptied a carrier bag of chips & other waste food just by the steps where the cafes are.Were was the litter police then,my dog is a food thief at the best of times manged to keep clea,he probably thought he was doing good feeding the sky rats


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
Good point on the non payment of fines granny, that is why we have ended up with entries full of old furniture and other kinds of junk, the council are reluctant to bring prosecutions because of the legal costs involved, and the possibility that when found guilty those involved will be unable to pay thus leaving the council with the bill not only for clearing up but for costs.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by granny
Nobody is saying nothing should be done, but £80 seems a steep fine for a cigarette butt, and unaffordable by unemployed.


Can't afford to pay? Then you have to do litter picking for the day. Yet if we did that, there would be uproar over that as well. Dog muck should be just as vigorously enforced, i agree.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by peodude
Can't afford to pay? Then you have to do litter picking for the day


Excellent!


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
I live next to council offices. A few years ago they had a "bus stop" smoking area built in the grounds. It's still there but apparently they're not allowed to use it (no smoking on council property). So now the staff stand around outside the front door to smoke and frequently drop their cigarette butts on the ground - it's a complete mess there.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Mr skeptic here.. I don't believe this story--yes maybe they have done a few people for littering. Governments make up stories to suit their own ends--in this case scare tactics
. They even admit it-- they lied on a form and it made people pay their council tax bills on time.

Now they admit lying about benefit:

Government department admits: We made up stories on our benefits leaflets
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/59...ork-and-Pensions-welfare-reforms-leaflet

maybe they would argue the end justifies the means

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
All very good points raised smile
Love the litter picking one.

My original point was if this is truly at "Litter" campaign then why is it not targeted to all kinds of littering. In my humble opinion its discriminating towards smokers because it brings in the revenue which from the £80,000 speaks volumes.

From the results they have 98% of the revenue from Cigarette related offences. Which is not balanced at all for a "Litter" campaign, its a Revenue Campaign or it would be called "Don't Drop your Butt" and giving fair warning to a smoker to be aware of the campaign. If the revenue was balanced you could say its a fair and honest campaign. But its not informed smokers of the new harsh fines being imposed under new littering rules.

I'm an ex smoker so i'm not fighting for the smoker but just how unfair and under had this comes across at.

Dog Fouling.
Its known that it has not be a successful campaign and prosecutions are minimal. Due to an expensive process. But while this was in place, i cant remember a smoker being fined for dropping a cigarette butt.


Shame on the Council in my opinion for this tactic and the revenue stream.
I've done more digging and follow me on this one if you would.
After a Quick Google Wirral Council Littering

Wirral Council Press Release Pages Click me
In summary the Notifications for the Public.

Litter louts will be hit with tougher fines from April 1 Click Me
Quote
With more than 10,000 tonnes of litter and fly tipping waste collected during 2013/ 14 and more than 2,000 flytipping incidents a year, it is imperative that we deal with this problem.
Ive never see 10,000 tones of Cigarette butts, so at first glance this is revenue again, as there are 2,000 flytipping incidents a year.

Quote
There is currently discount for prompt payment of FPN’s with the penalty being reduced by £25 if paid within 10 days. When the fine increases on April 1 this year, a reduction of £20 will be made if payment is made within 10 days.
So the Fines is increased (See below) and the early payment is less. Previously £75 - £25 = £50 Early Payment. Now £80 - £20 = £60 Early Payment. Fine goes up, and early payment goes down.

Originally Posted by Wirral Council
Litter louts will be hit with tougher fines from April 1
Posted 23 March 2015 - 5:55pm
From April 1, 2015, Wirral Council is increasing the fixed penalty notice fine for littering from £75 to £80.
Wonderful but failing to mention that the Early payment is reducing until you get to the bottom of the page.

So Far Nothing about Cigarette butts and the more balanced opinion of littering in my vue, Fly tipping alley ways etc




139 fined on first two days of dedicated litter patrol Click Me

Quote
Tackling litter, as well as associated issues such as fly-tipping and dog fouling, was one of the 20 pledges made by Council leader Phil Davies earlier this week and the introduction of this no-nonsense approach is a demonstration of this commitment.
No Cigarette butts mentioned. As there top priority !!

Quote
“Our aim is to patrol in an ‘intelligence led’ manner focusing our controls on identified litter hotspots
So if your reporting hot spots there following the money trail. But no mention of cigarettes again. . . .

And its not all bad, because after the councils announcements about tackling littering they post the following headline
Wirral parks are the best in the North West Click me

Quote
The Green Flag award winners are unveiled today and out of the 1,582 UK parks, cemeteries, universities, shopping centres and community gardens in the UK that were adjudged to have met the exacting standards required, 22 of them are in Wirral.
I'm so confused about what the council is actutally saying to us, we have the worst litter caused by smokers dropping cigarette butts or we have the best parks. . .

And Finally folks as my rant comes to a close lol
I have managed to find a page on the wirral councils web sie about cigarette butts. And the clarification is all too clear now as its on the same page on how to pay your fine !! Click me

You know we get letters from the council if there is an election or councillor change, but they don't choose to inform us of the £80 fine for the following

It is a crime to drop and leave any form of litter including:

fast food wrappers and packaging
chewing gum
cigarette butts and other smoking related products
flyers left on windscreens


** Flyers left on screens ?
Is that a flyer blowing off or someone putting a flyer on my car ??

O well its off my chest now ish. . . .

Attached Images
litter.jpg
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 3
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 3
What I find interesting is that carrier bags - which are supposed to be such a menace the gov. is soon going to force supermarkets to charge us 5p for them - are not mentioned anywhere here.

I think carrier bags are a fairly minor nuisance. There are far more squashed aluminium drinks cans or empty fizzy drinks bottles, as well as discarded food containers about than there are carrier bags.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Thanks Mark--I also feel better for you getting that off your chest.

Would be interesting for some rich dude to take it to court to define "litter" as has been said what about the ash from the cigarette or cigar flicked on the floor. Think I read a solicitor said that putting a butt down the grid does not constitute littering.

Did someone mention about feeding the ducks-usually load of uneaten bread scattered around.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
As a slight counter to the butt vs fly tipping, I know of about 12 small sites that are frequent fly-tipping locations whereas I know miles and miles of roads that cigarette butts are dropped on regularly. It costs more to clean miles of streets on a regular basis than a small number of fly-tipping areas on an occasional basis.

Smokers drop butts more often than they (or other people) drop litter is a way of looking at the butt vs litter aspect.

Either way, the message is getting across, drop litter and you can (quite rightly) be fined.

The solution to the fast food waste problem is quite simple, make the fast-food places label all their wrapping and charge them for the amount that ends up on the street.

Despite McDonalds saying they regularly empty their bins and do their best, the number of times I find their bins full says otherwise. Having watched the staff at Rock Park, I don't think they are allowed to empty their bins unless they are full to the brim.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I'm reading as this is a civil matter you do not have to give any details to the enforcement officer ? Like a Private parking ticket its civil. And when do you actually agree you accept the bylaw if there is no signage of fair warning.
I'm not sure if any of that above is fact or just fiction.

Its wide open now.

think is a bin man going to be fined £80 if the rubbish from the wagon blows or spills out ??

Is there an Exemption list.

This could go on and on. . ..


There was a comment on the globe website from a reader saying in there area, they watch the wardens ignoring people dropping litter and target the smokers as its easy money. . . .

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Its both Civil and Criminal, the criminal law allows a civil fixed penalty notice as an alternative, however if the recipient chooses not to pay the fpn then that is their choice.

Quote
Fixed Penalty Notices for littering (Environmental Protection Act 1990)

Under EPA S87 a person dropping litter can be subject to a criminal prosecution and fined up to £2,500.

Under EPA S88 if an authorised officer of a litter authority ( e.g. a local authority), witnesses someone committing an offence under section 87 he may give that person a notice giving him the opportunity of discharging any liability to conviction by payment of a fixed penalty.

If the FPN is not paid the offender would be prosecuted and, if found guilty, he would have to pay a fine and obtain a criminal record.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 28
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 28
I'd love to know what percentage of these fines actually get paid.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Just incase you may think putting the ciggy butt down the gutter is ok !!

Be aware !!
£75 for putting cigarette stub down a GRID Click me

And obviously this now covers chewing gum.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
The Fag Police were on the prowl in the Cherry Tree carpark, just before. Leaning nonchalantly against the wall, watching me smoke. As I was finishing he hot- footed it over only to be disappointed as I stubbed it out in my Love Wirral Stub It pouch.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Obviously a huge litter problem that car park.
And a scene of outstanding beauty lol.

I would love to play slight of hand with them.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Originally Posted by Mark
Obviously a huge litter problem that car park.
And a scene of outstanding beauty lol.

I would love to play slight of hand with them.


What usually works is if you start filming them --but not covertly like they do. More in their face or at least a respectable distance and post up on youtube.. Although it might be difficult if filming from the car park as its private property-

The value of videoing in this TV Licence Search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QnFwLqCQ24

or excellent scam documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQeKy1v-R-I

Last edited by fish5133; 27th Aug 2015 12:26am.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I hope this Guy does appeal, the whole process stinks. If your caught speeding you can go on a speed awareness course. Education notices and fair warning. I hope this back fires on the council and common sense sees sense. Sinage, to say in this area. The now 95k in fines is targeting smokers regardless of what the council says.

Click me Source

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
It is not targeting smokers, it might be targeting smokers that litter.

I can't see why you are trying to campaign to have our streets freely littered with fag ends???

I assume the council will have a word with the company to broaden their surveillance to other littering but there is nothing wrong with doing things one step at a time. I'm sure that more fag ends are dropped that other bits of litter.

In the past we have had campaigns against:-
Dog mess (no doubt someone claimed they were picking on dog owners)
Drinking in public (no doubt someone claimed they were picking on drinkers)
Speeding (no doubt someone claimed they were picking on drivers)
Drugs (no doubt someone complained they were picking on smack-heads)
etc


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
People are like animals nowadays pukin,drinking,fags everywhere ,smoke in the streets when you want a coffee or to eat ,its a disgusting habit, big fat consumers shovelling in junk sugar&fat with drunken dozy eyes at 2am before avin a fight.....modern uk is horrible esp in citys at the weekend in the early hours...my personal hate is chuckin lit fags out car windows

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Eloquently put, totally agree thumbsup


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
My grump is that there just isn't enough warning about the ciggy ends.

A Speeding fine is not far off the cost of dropping a ciggy butt.
But there are signs up with Speeding enforcement vans so you have fair warning, and it shows that its not just a revenue stream if you continue to speed.

Imo the council not playing fair.
Not providing fair warning. For an £80 fine there should be advance warning in the area.

If the Enforcement Officers get over to New Brighton they will kill the tourism. Its the way there going about it that just stinks for me.

Many smokers for years have seen the £1,000 fines on lampposts and never been challenged under "Littering" so to all of a sudden to enforce it with out highlighting the BIG change in attitude towards ciggy butts. There first month was £80,0000 + For Ciggy offences. If this was there target then the campaign as you rightly say should be labeled correctly. Its is littering but it never used to be enforced.

Wirral Council have lost so much money over car parking revenue this is there next money making scheme. As i pointed out in a previous post only on the fine page to pay your fine is the ciggy butts mentioned and no where else that i can find.

Yes in this day and age ciggy butts are littering.
Yes they have always been littering.
But never enforced !!

At least educate with fair warning. I'm only a voice thinking of people like my mum who are old and have done this for years, and to have a £80 fine for something that they have done for more years than they can remember and £80 fine could put them into so much financial problems when your only income is a state pension.

I've educated her from the stories we have put together, and suggested she gets one of those personal ashtray things for her handbag.

I just think if the council was on the peoples side they would educate before fine.
Smokes must be in the minority now and this is how they can get away with it.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
I roll my own cigs (nearly as thick as normal cigs)and I usually only smoke half a cig and pocket the other half to later break up to make new cigs when short of tobacco.
Will they next target the cig ash as litter?

Last edited by derekdwc; 30th Aug 2015 10:44am.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
The ciggy smokers are the easy meat to catch. Outside any railway station, bus stops, outside pubs, very easy for these so called Enforcement Officers. Who they should be prosecuting are the totally selfish, lazy and irresponsible so called dog owners who let their dogs defecate all over our pavements, footpaths and parks.They are the ones that should be fined and heavily too, they are spreading disease, dirt and smells and its always somewhere else other than near or by their house. Selfish b...a..s

Last edited by Santos; 30th Aug 2015 6:05pm.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
@mark we've even had at least two TV campaigns in the past about fag ends, and as you say the warning signs have been tried on lampposts litter bins and wall posters - yet they were ignored them - now they are being acted upon.

Everybody is aware it is an offence, though I guess not everybody would know its a criminal offence - but ignorance of the law is no defence.

So people are aware, warnings were given in at least two media formats and numerous different poster/sign campaigns - now the boot has been stuck in.









We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Ive not seen them before,

I don't smoke, so may be i've been a bit blind.

My Own Opinion is thus,
The money brought in is + 90% from Smokers Fines.
So why is it not called a Anti Cigarette Butt Campaign.
There biggest revenue has not been made more aware of, in there advertising at all. Yes its litter, but it never used to be targeted. . . .

The papers have now made it front page and many more are aware, but that first month is just outrageous. If the council were fair to its residents they would in my opinion warn for the first month and educate that next month you will get a £80 fine.

We can split hairs all day, but in my opinion this is not a fair scheme because the smokers are paying the price and they not targeting the fly tipping at all. I would guess most fly tipping happens in the night or the dark, I wonder what time these enforcement officers clear there shifts. So any fly tipper will not bat an eyelid.

Yes we can say the council is bringing in money which then leaves more money in the pot for other services. But remember the council can invest the money in new carpets and luxury items for there offices (Coffee Machines).

Seems no one is accountable for there huge waste of money.

Yes the message is out there now.
I doubt this will be the end of this practice hitting the headlines.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
There was exactly the same outcry in various London boroughs two years ago, the local government ministers take on the protesters was.

Quote
Those who harm the environment by shamelessly littering and fly-tipping should be brought to book


Wirral have successfully caught and prosecuted a number of rural fly-tippers but needless to say it is a lot harder and costly to catch them, the council would have to cut money from other services to afford to achieve a higher prosecution rate.

After years of costing ratepayers money to clean up after smokers and some smokers breaking the law, the specific offenders themselves are now paying for it - can't get any fairer than that.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Jail term for flytipper after successful action by Wirral Council

So they caught one. But nothing back in the kitty that i can see.
So catching a fly tipper is jail time. But does not offset the cost of the clean up.

If he has paid a fine then maybe the council should have included that in there page.

Source : Click Me

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 4
Beginner
Offline
Beginner
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 4
I think we should consider the health hazard of those people who SPIT. Its awful, even worse if its coloured green.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Spitting is classed as littering. Health and safety wise it is less risk than coughing or sneezing which puts a large cloud of particles in the air.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Lady on radio merseyside today. At the lifeboat day hoylake.hubby left a paper cup by side of bench where they had been sitting.3 burly kingdom goons confronted them asking for his name and address which he refused and they threatened to phone police which they didnt do but they later followed the wife with her kids up the street and photographed her car and ran at the car to get video footage.she was quite scared as she didnt know who they were.crafty wirral council contacted the radio show asking for her to contact them but she declined before she had spoken to her husband.wonder if they just targetted the event because they know people would be having fast food and bins likely to be full

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I would be asking for ID and a contact number. Before i give my details out.
And would take the time to put my phone on video record, because i can.


The more i think about it, these patrols seem absolutely random where they show up (But we know there chasing the money) so whos to say they cant be impersonated and taking money under false pretences.

I can only see this damaging the council, you begin to feel you cant do anything called fun or enjoy some fun with out a £80 fine hidden in the bushes.

Easy to understand why in 3's because the would be flattened on there own in my opinion.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Yesterday coming out of St Caths hospital to the bus stop in Derby rd a woman there told me an elderly gent had just been fined £80 for dropping his ciggie in the gutter (he wasn't smoking in the bus shelter).
She said there appeared to be nobody else around at the time when 2 men suddenly appeared out of nowhere to fine him.
They had been sitting in a car near to the bus stop and they were still there when I got on the bus.
So beware smokers of these sneaks.
Is the aim to stop litter or to make easy money for the council and the firm doing it?
If it's for the money what next - aim dedicated cctv cameras at likely litter/cigs dropping spots with a standby teams to nab the culprits

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Online Content
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
And here's me thinking the gutter and drains are for excess rainwater...

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
two of them this morning at the car park by the beach in moreton.
silver Peugeot 208 - reg ending in HZF.
caught a lad dropping a ciggie butt.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
So when they have taught us not to drop our stumps in the street and the revenue dries up from that source, will Kingdom Ltd still be paid by the council if the cost falls below what they collect.
I'd be interested to know how much and how Kingdom Ltd get paid.
Just wondering if they are on a commission basis - the more fines the more money earned?
Do they give you time to tread on the stump to put it out prior to putting it in a litter bin or do you put it in lit possibly causing the litter bin to go on fire.

Have they any sort of uniform they wear which if you saw one would obviously deter anyone from dropping litter.
Are parents responsible (and fined) for children dropping litter ?

Last edited by derekdwc; 30th Sep 2015 11:07am.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
no uniform mate. just looked like any normal person in the street. black pants, grey hoody, looked like steel toe cap boots!!!
not even from round here. the goon giving the ticket out even had to ask where he was!!
quite aggressive too.
I was wondering re commission too. one goon got out while the other stayed in the car.

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 547
apparently theyre from st Helens!!
well done WBC contracting out of the area.
as if contracting out all other services we pay council tax for wasn't bad enough!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,693
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,693
Michael Fisher, Divisional Director for Kingdom Environmental Protection Division (EPD), said: “We are delighted to be working in partnership with Wirral Council with the common aim of reducing street litter within the district and make the streets both cleaner and safer for all members of the community. Kingdom EPD have been delivering a wide range of environmental investigations and enforcement services on a national basis since 2009 and have consequently contributed to a reduction in street litter and the associated cost of street cleaning as a result of our efforts.
this is taken from 'kingdom'
“Our aim is to patrol in an ‘intelligence led’ manner focusing our controls on identified litter hotspots operating a robust but always proportionate methodology to tackle the problem, using a wide range of technical support including body worn cameras and a ‘real time’ capability of verifying details provided in the event of transgressions being identified. Our patrols will be instructed to communicate openly with the community with the overall aim of inclusivity for the Wirral community to play their part in the task ahead.”

ALWAYS ASK FOR ID, AND TO SEE THEIR BODYCAM FOOTAGE, THIS IS OPEN TO SCAMMERS PREYING ON THE PUBLIC, AND OF COURSE DON'T LITTER IN THE FIRST PLACE


cos i'm that kinda guy...
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Just fined a mum for letting her daughter throw bread to the ducks in Birkenhead Park. Because the ducks were full and didnt eat it--it was litter.


Not really but don't see why they couldn't. Its just a revenue raising exercise targetting the easy places.

Have we anyone who has told them to stuff it to see what course of action is taken.

Would also like to know how the £80 has been arrived at. Just a figure plucked from the air?


Last edited by fish5133; 30th Sep 2015 7:41pm.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by eggandchips
Michael
ALWAYS ASK FOR ID, AND TO SEE THEIR BODYCAM FOOTAGE, THIS IS OPEN TO SCAMMERS PREYING ON THE PUBLIC, AND OF COURSE DON'T LITTER IN THE FIRST PLACE
Good Advice.

There targeting Care homes and old people at the bus stops, there was a video on facebook and a woman in distress over the whole thing, and a good guy videoed it all and they walked off. With there heads down.



Originally Posted by fish5133
Just fined a mum for letting her daughter throw bread to the ducks in Birkenhead Park. Because the ducks were full and didn't eat it--it was litter.
And this is preventing Fly Tipping shame on you wirral council !!!

£80 to a pensioner is a weeks wage and can tip them into debt !!

Shame on Wirral Council !!!

The police understand the word Caution, why cant the council !!! somad
Take my name and address and Caution me, I'm hardly a murderer. . . .

Last edited by Mark; 30th Sep 2015 11:07pm.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 4
On the positive side it does seem to be working, in Birkenhead yesterday waiting for the wife outside the shops, never seen so many people putting litter in the bins, I read a letter in the Globe from some fool trying to defend dropping ciggy butts by saying people don't trip over them and they don't cause any harm, I think that says it all.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
The video on FB was taken on Seabank Road by the shops - and the "good guy" was following the officers down the road shouting abuse at them.
Littering and flytipping are totally separate issues.

I'm fed up of living in an area where a large proportion of residents think that the streets are for them to throw crap onto because they're too lazy to use a bin, not to mention the amount of ill informed barrack room lawyers defending them!

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Ok he was foul with his mouth but im sure you heard how distressed the old lady was and how they walked away and hid there faces from his camera.

Why cant they caution in the Hot Spots for 3 - 6 months, there out for money and its going to backfire on them.

You can drop a ciggy in Liverpool get off the ferry and Drop another one and get £80 fine.
Were are the warnings, where is the friendly advice.

Littering is littering, but why zero tolerance, I remember not so many years ago chatting with a policeman with a cigarette in my hand and stubbed it out on the floor while talking to them. The Littering Law of old was in place then, no action taken, or advised to put it in the bin.

Is it so difficult to take a name and address as a caution !
Second time you get fined, that's fair enough until the word has spread. 3 or 6 months.

As i say, an OAP hit with a £80 fine is wrong !!
There pension is pitiful, and that money could be heating or food.

I agree with the side of littering being wrong, but not this way of collecting and frightening old people.

This video he says stop videoing, its on public ground and you can video. You can video police as long as it does not hinder his work, in other words prevent an arrest because of your actions.




Every Other Enforcement office i can think of wears Hi Viz why are these guys so dark !!
Its money making .. . . .


An older video from knowsley
Published on Aug 2, 2013
A Knowsley Council 'Enforcement' Officer entered onto private premises after he had seen a pensioner allegedly drop a cigarette stump (also on that private property) and he then escorted the OAP off those private premises in order to issue him with a fine for 'dropping litter'



These guys are in a law to there own. . . . .

Just look how intimidating they are, and telling you what they want you to hear.



Most important part is that you should never delete any pictures, not even a police officer can ask you to delete them, only a court order. A policeman can view the content but not delete.

You can find various links to the "Photography advice - Metropolitan Police Service" document via google, but the met website was a pain to load, but eventually you will get it. Public place no restrictions, private property its up to the property owner what is allowed or not.

You can not prevent an officer carrying out his duties, as in your standing out like a sore thumb, preventing him say watching a criminal.

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice

Its when i see content like above and old people and even mentally ill people being targeted makes my blood boil. And then they can not even inform you correctly of the law, they are intimidating. Stand your Ground. I cant find the seabank road video to share.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
If I was a smoker I would be tempted to have some fine fishing wire attached to a cigarette butt and play some games with them.

Presumably the littering laws include a requirement of abandonment.

However I still think this is a good thing, if people haven't got the message yet then that is clearly their problem. The system is exceedingly generous in giving the option to keep it as a civil matter and not criminal, apparently in Liverpool the average fine in courts is £175.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Sorry Guys this is just one of them things that get under your skin, and its under mine. But were all allowed an opinion.

The council are refusing to put signs up.
And think there officers are carrying out there hard line approach is just "Fine"

ENFORCEMENT officers have issued on-the-spot fines totalling £258,000 in just two months of a crackdown against littering


Source click me

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Also, we will now be paying for plastic bags in an attempt to stop us dropping them and causing pollution to our seas and sea life. Getting into the food chain. Can't see the sale of plastic bags will stop the litter louts . There are plenty of other plastic objects , packaging etc. that are left after a day out at the beach. but polluted oceans are obviously all the fault of the British....again. So charge the buggers !

Every little helps but it has to be more down to education and targeting the cruise liners for dumping their rubbish and effluence in the oceans on a massive scale. Always have done, always will do !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-coast-violation-international-law.html

Sewage

http://qz.com/308970/cruise-ships-dump-1-billion-tons-of-sewage-into-the-ocean-every-year/






Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
In 2013 Liverpool collected 14,000 tons of street litter in one year which cost them £6.5m

Wirral street cleaning costs £3.5m so the fines have so far clawed back less than 10% of the cost, if they carry on fining at the same rate (unlikely!) they will only recover nearly 50% of the cleaning cost in one year.

Littering isn't a hobby, facility or interest, why should everybody pay for others who are not only doing something illegal but also are being extremely anti-social.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
The figures will include emptying litter bins and general road sweeping.Interested departments distorting figures to make a point will not help the situation.I doubt any person would get caught out twice so don,t make the same mistake once.I don.t know what the situation is regarding age of offenders but juniors seem to have the habit of dropping litter. A quick learning curve is required by the potential offenders or you only have yourself to blame.Pick up or cough up!!.

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 511
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 511
Not sure why people here are asking for warning signs and cautions for littering. It's antisocial and illegal. Just don't do it. If you smoke, then buy a really cheap stub it out pocket on Ebay. It shouldn't matter if you think someone is watching or not. Like most people I occasionally speed, but I know what the speed limit is, so if I take the chance then it's only my fault not anyone else's if I get caught. Everyone should take some personal responsibility for their actions.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
They painted the Speed Camera's Bright Yellow, because they were deemed a money making, and not as intended a deterrent.
If there is a speed camera van they have to have notices up so you have the informed choice to speed or not, but the van is a deterrent. Its clearly marked etc. .. .

A Traffic Warden wears Hi Viz.
A Police officer wears Hi Viz.
A Community liaison officer wears Hi Viz.

Sending out a clear message that if you break the law while i'm here you're going to be fined / prosecuted.

These Litter Police on Wirral don't do such a thing, there in dark scruffy looking clothes all being black !
If you a door man or a security officer you have to display a badge clearly, these guys don't. . .

Hi Viz and there presence should be enough to get the message across, remember these go to area's where residents have called in and asked for there presents, just like the little telescope car that would hover around schools hiding away, only to be told it has to be in full view and then it was restricted to where and when.

If the whole thing was not about the money, then whats wrong with being more visible, and warnings that wirral now has litter police. The first month 90% of fines were to smokers because there an easy target to follow and you know its going to hit the floor in a few minutes.

A good point was raised earlier, that once the word is out and everyone knows that the litter police could be anywhere and everyone starts behaving the money revenue will dry up, and the fly tippers will still fly tip. It has to be education so people understand that it's not just one cigarette butt or one wrapper. Its the vulnerable paying the fines and not the main offenders that pretty much dump a houses contents up an entry.

I dont like that fact that the 2 video's of wirral litter police ive seen are prepared to lie about the use of the camera's and
intimidation techniques. And i'm with DD i would love to have a ciggy on a string and drag it along with me.

I agree it's not right to litter.
I think Wirral council have come at this far too hard and there being sneaky about it with officers not being identifiable from a distance, unless the exercise is all about money. Good people do not intentionally litter, if they do it's an accident or they have a reasonable excuse.

I do hope this comes back and bites the councillors responsible.

And how long before it becomes penalties by CCTV like you can be fined by CCTV for illegal parking now.
When and where will it end for the cash strapped council that wastes money on carpets and coffee machines.

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Uffda
Not sure why people here are asking for warning signs and cautions for littering. It's antisocial and illegal. Just don't do it. If you smoke, then buy a really cheap stub it out pocket on Ebay. It shouldn't matter if you think someone is watching or not. Like most people I occasionally speed, but I know what the speed limit is, so if I take the chance then it's only my fault not anyone else's if I get caught. Everyone should take some personal responsibility for their actions.


Fully agree, well said.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
We have spent enough on littering signs and publicity, we did have people going around asking people to pick up their stubs after they were seen dropping them, impact was zero, none of it worked.

The soft touch and warnings didn't work so now it has come to kick in the spheres time.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
The only litter signs ive seen are pretty much 5 10 yrs old and still say £1,000 fine.
There on lamp posts rusting with the 80's look about them.

The soft touch may not have worked but the middle approach of a caution wasn't tried either.

But why are the wardens the least noticeable out of all the enforcement officers.
There being sent out to hot spots and everyone else being sent to a scene is in hi viz.

Pretty much anyone in authority with some powers has Hi Viz saying who they are.

I just think the council is being sneaky about the whole thing to maximise the revenue.
The police cant act in this way with speed camera's, they cant be hidden in there actions.

I know this is my view, and i know DD we wont see eye to eye but its just my opinion.



Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Legally the Council cannot caution anyone as littering is a criminal matter.

I don't see the Council being at all sneaky on this one, they are publicising it as much as possible. They have publicised that littering is illegal, irresponsible and fine-able since before I was born.

If they changed the signs every time the fine changed they would be accused of wasting money (I believe the maximum fine is now £2500).

I'm trying my best not repeat myself and only raise new points however I will put a summary here.

There are signs all over the place (for years).
It has been publicised in just about every way possible (for years).
The criminals have been warned via verbal warnings and publicity(for years).
It is wrong legally and morally to litter (always).
The fixed penalty is quite small compared to the cost of smoking.
The non-litterers should not have to pay for this criminal activity.

I really can't see any defence, its a bad habit that people have got into because most haven't been fined in the past, its the lack of fines that has allowed this to happen which makes the cure obvious.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Stamping your fag end out on the street and leaving it their a criminal offence-----the laws an ass.
So do all the people who have been fined now have a criminal record?

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by fish5133
Stamping your fag end out on the street and leaving it their a criminal offence-----the laws an ass.
So do all the people who have been fined now have a criminal record?


No, if they pay a Council penalty notice then that exempts them from criminal prosecution for littering.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
I am starting to loose respect for English Law, either it is or it ii not a criminal offence. To decriminalise something on payment of a "bung"is the road to a two tier system that favours the rich.
Michael Winner "you can drive in the bus lanes for sixty quid"

Attached Images
litter.jpg
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005

Wow you take your eye off the ball and look at how laws have been changed right under our noses.

I personally do not agree with £80 fines for a tiny bit of litter, but that's me. What i have found on my quest for more information is a whole load of things covered under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. First i had never heard of this Act, but then i doubt many have.

So if your caught littering it looks like the advice is pay up, and give your details.
But obviously check they are an official and not a fake / scammer.
You can video and take pictures of them, read this first. http://content.met.police.uk/Site/photographyadvice


  • Litter Police : Summary
  • penalty notices may be issued to children aged 10 or over, as well as to adults.
    This page states the age of 10 and above Click Me
    However i cant find it on legislation.gov.uk Click Me
  • Who can nab you ?
    Litter authority authorised officers, including persons not employed by the local authority (includes parish councils, National Park authorities and the Broads Authority)
    Accredited persons - litter wardens
    Police community support officers (PCSOs)
    Power to photograph persons given a penalty notice
  • Because you have :
    throw down, drop or otherwise deposit and leave litter in any place open to the air is a criminal offence, even when dropped on private land or water.
  • And you will be charged under :
    Section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 (EPA), as amended by the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, makes it an offence to drop, throw or deposit and leave litter anywhere.
  • And your issued with a fine under :
    Section 88 of the EPA gives the power to issue a fixed penalty notice

  • Power to require name and address Source
    (1)If an authorised officer of a local authority proposes to give a person a notice under section 6, the officer may require the person to give him his name and address.
    (2)A person commits an offence if—
    (a)he fails to give his name and address when required to do so under subsection (1), or
    (b)he gives a false or inaccurate name or address in response to a requirement under that subsection.
    (3)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (2) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.


I've posted the whole Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 Document and more details in a topic in its own right.

Follow this link. Click Me

I'm now educated to the new rules i knew nothing about.

And its not just wirral, by the way the Act has been written this is open to any area now, scotland and ireland have there own tweaks to the same acts. Maybe i just need to watch the news more. . . . .

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Ministers are expected to announce the anti-litter strategy during the Conservative Party conference next week. As well as raising fines from £80 to £100, the Government may make fast food chains plaster litter warnings on packaging.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...louts-drive-clean-Britain-s-streets.html

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,487
Likes: 1
Green Meanie
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Green Meanie
Wiki Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,487
Likes: 1
Kingdom have been sitting out side asda brombough in an unmarked car just so you all know


[Linked Image] Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 3
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 3
Whatever the rights and wrongs of litter fines, there seems to be a fight-back by litterers in New Ferry.

Someone has been methodically vandalising litter bins down by the river, removing the inside bins from them and throwing them into the river. From there, they adopted a simpler method of uprooting them entirely and throwing them in the river!

Of course, it could be the council doing it, in order to increase revenue from fines...

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
How do you think your fixed with the litter police and leaves??

It came to my mind as i was driving along and i seen a guy with a blow gun, blowing the leaves from his drive onto the path / road.

Is this going to be the next revenue stream??

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
Forum Guide
Offline
Forum Guide
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,034
People should not throw litter about - then there simply would not be a problem. Oh how I wish the same enthusiasm to fine was directed towards people who allow their dogs to leave poo on the pavement and don't bag it and bin it! That is a darn sight more antisocial than a cigarette butt, though those shouldn't be left either.

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,098
Wiki Addict
Offline
Wiki Addict
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,098
Funny you should mention Dog poo.
There has been a big improvement with less dog poo on the pavements.More dog owners are cleaning it up in our area.
Still fag ends and litter being thrown all over the place.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Was huddled around a bin in Liscard the other day, flicking the ash IN THE BIN....

This random woman told me a story....there was a young mum outside ASDA in Birkenhead with a 'older' baby in a buggy and a young child toddling beside her.

She gave them both a Sausage Roll ( that's another debate, altogether). #SausageRollDummy
The Toddler was being, well, like a Toddler (having a tantrum) and whilst Mum was dealing with the Tantrum Toddler, the baby had dropped his/her Sausage Roll on the ground Yup!!! The dickheads pounced and fined her!!! This is getting ridiculous now!!!

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,447
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,447
Young girl from across the road got fined £80 least it will be by the time she gets paid for dropping a cigarette end on the Croft Bromborough,
considering most of us are working longer for less money,and kids are on bugger all,How did they come up that figure £80 its almost a weeks earnings for her,"they really are cleaning up`aren't they.
She told me they looked like a couple of retailers wearing black jackets.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Mark
How do you think your fixed with the litter police and leaves??

It came to my mind as i was driving along and i seen a guy with a blow gun, blowing the leaves from his drive onto the path / road.

Is this going to be the next revenue stream??


Debateable Mark. Must surely need an inquest to decide if they were his leaves, or council leaves on his property. I dare say most of us could kick off on that one laugh

Last edited by granny; 21st Oct 2015 1:11pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX



The Toddler was being, well, like a Toddler (having a tantrum) and whilst Mum was dealing with the Tantrum Toddler, the baby had dropped his/her Sausage Roll on the ground Yup!!! The dickheads pounced and fined her!!! This is getting ridiculous now!!!


Oh for gods sake! That scenario is the sort of thing that you'd expect to see in one of those 'extreme silliness/humour' sketches with David Walliam and his mate in a wheelchair. Flipping outrageous.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by Vanmanone
Young girl from across the road got fined £80 least it will be by the time she gets paid for dropping a cigarette end on the Croft Bromborough,
considering most of us are working longer for less money,and kids are on bugger all,How did they come up that figure £80 its almost a weeks earnings for her,"they really are cleaning up`aren't they.
She told me they looked like a couple of retailers wearing black jackets.
I was up on the croft when this litter thing first came out they had got this young lad who works in the toy shop.I was watching for a bit wondering what was going on,he must of dropped a fag or something & was getting fined.Should imagine they'll be busy up there with Christmas comming up.


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
New Dog Fouling Team !!

On wirral council facebook feed the Dog Foul police if i can call them that have a Van with "Wirral Community Patrol" on the side with the phone number 0151 666 5265

And the lady is in Hi Viz !!

But litter police are Not !
There cars are unmarked and they are in black.

No wonder the ciggies still bring in the revenue and not the dog fouling.



Originally Posted by starakita
Originally Posted by Vanmanone
Young girl from across the road got fined £80 least it will be by the time she gets paid for dropping a cigarette end on the Croft Bromborough,
considering most of us are working longer for less money,and kids are on bugger all,How did they come up that figure £80 its almost a weeks earnings for her,"they really are cleaning up`aren't they.
She told me they looked like a couple of retailers wearing black jackets.
I was up on the croft when this litter thing first came out they had got this young lad who works in the toy shop.I was watching for a bit wondering what was going on,he must of dropped a fag or something & was getting fined.Should imagine they'll be busy up there with Christmas comming up.



As DD found in the other topic, to issue a FPN the guidelines say you should give the offender to opportunity to pick it up. (litter not poo) Click Me


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
Wiki Guide
Offline
Wiki Guide
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
I am pleased that There is a DOG FOULING TEAM , now out and about , the amount of Shit , in all manner of 'forms ' are every where (IN ALL THE VARIOUS PLACES ,I TAKE OUR SALLY )worse when been raining ...ARGGGG, SICK TO DEATH , of 'LAZY ' dog owners .Now people are ' kicking ' the fallen LEAVES over the dog mess .Hope they fine them ALL .The more the better ,then people will 'MIGHT' CHANGE .......

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Originally Posted by missmahjong
I am pleased that There is a DOG FOULING TEAM , now out and about , the amount of Shit , in all manner of 'forms ' are every where (IN ALL THE VARIOUS PLACES ,I TAKE OUR SALLY )worse when been raining ...ARGGGG, SICK TO DEATH , of 'LAZY ' dog owners .Now people are ' kicking ' the fallen LEAVES over the dog mess .Hope they fine them ALL .The more the better ,then people will 'MIGHT' CHANGE .......


withthat

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
I read somewhere that in Daventry they were going to fine dog walkers who don't carry poo bags.I'm sick of the lazy people who don't pick up,usually people who's dogs are about a mile behind the owner who doesn't notice or they're too busy on their mobile.


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
And wirral its coming, if a person walking a dog, can not show a means of cleaning up the mess then a fixed fine will be issued. So its not just a poo bag.

And you can be fined if the dog has done its business od not.

Ive not seen a link yet but it is a very very strong rumour.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,389
Originally Posted by Mark
And wirral its coming, if a person walking a dog, can not show a means of cleaning up the mess then a fixed fine will be issued. So its not just a poo bag.

And you can be fined if the dog has done its business od not.

Ive not seen a link yet but it is a very very strong rumour.
Well I hope it's true,fed up of people who think it's acceptible to let their dogs mess everywhere.It will make people think if they get stopped & fined for not having bags.I always take out more than I need but Misty doesn't get off the lead much anyway so I know when she goes.


no1s gonna keep me from u
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
Wiki Guide
Offline
Wiki Guide
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
I change ....jacket/ coat/ cardi quite regular,and always 'FIND' bags in the pockets and i keep a lot in the car .As for 'Dogs' being a mile behind the owner, i feel this a 'Tactic' that many use ....

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
Originally Posted by missmahjong
I change ....jacket/ coat/ cardi quite regular,and always 'FIND' bags in the pockets and i keep a lot in the car .As for 'Dogs' being a mile behind the owner, i feel this a 'Tactic' that many use ....
Totally agree with you Missy, I see them all the time, head down hands in pocket and never look back to check on their dog's easements. If you see this happening I recommend the following solution, take a deep breath and bellow out " YOUR DOG'S HAVING A CRAP". Works every time.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Fines handed out to litterbugs in Wirral topped £281,000 in the first three months of a new crackdown

Fines handed out to litterbugs in Wirral topped £281,000 in the first three months of a new crackdown – with most given to people in Birkenhead and Tranmere.

Figures released by Wirral Council under the Freedom of Information Act have revealed where people have been fined and how many since a dedicated litter patrol began issuing £80 fixed penalty notices in July.

Although the figures could be explained by the patrols focusing on the busiest areas in Wirral, Wirral Council says it will be reviewing where the patrols are sent.

The largest proportion share of fines, at 35% totalling 1,390 fines, were handed out in Birkenhead and Tranmere, followed by Bromborough with 19%, or 759 fines.

New Brighton was third, with 396 fines (10.05%), then Wallasey, where 291 people were fined (7%), Rock Ferry with 231 and Liscard (159).

No fines were handed out in Clatterbridge, Thingwall, Lower Heswall, Greasby & Frankby and Irby.

The council’s new dedicated litter patrol fined 3,524 people from July 1 to September 30. As of October 22, 2,273 had been paid. Some of the 1,251 who have not paid have arranged extensions on the payment date.

Seven fines have been cancelled after an appeal.

The information was revealed after a request by former Wirral councillor Ian Lewis of Wallasey Conservatives, published on whatdotheyknow.com.

Conservative Councillor David Burgess-Joyce, representing Greasby, Frankby and Irby, said: “I am, as most residents are, immensely lucky and proud to live on the Wirral but it is a sad fact that litter often blights many of our roads and green spaces. As a keen supporter of fines for those that litter it seems that Greasby, Frankby and Irby has yet again not received the attention its fellow residents in Birkenhead consistently enjoy.

“I understand the denser population and retail centre Birkenhead contains but I also appreciate that all Wirral residents should receive support in ousting those who deliberately abuse our great peninsula.”

A spokesman for Wirral Council said: “More notices tend to be issued in busy shopping areas where there is a high footfall.

“We will however be looking at the results to see where we need to target resources.”

Anyone seen dropping and leaving litter receives an on-the-spot penalty of £80, which is reduced to £60 if paid within ten days.

Earlier this year, Cllr Bernie Mooney, Wirral Council cabinet member for the environment, said it showed the council meant business in tackling littering.

Fines for dropping litter in Wirral (Area/total/percentage)
Liscard 159 4.03%

Seacombe 45 1.14%

Wallasey 291 7.38%

Moreton 156 3.96%

Leasowe 17 0.43%

New Brighton 396 10.05%

Bromborough 759 19.26%

Eastham 18 0.46%

Bebington 174 4.42%

Clatterbridge 0 0.00%

Port Sunlight 3 0.08%

Lower Heswall 0 0.00%

Hoylake 54 1.37%

Meols 10 0.25%

West Kirby & Thurstaston 95 2.41%

Heswall 9 0.23%

Upton 42 1.07%

Pensby 1 0.03%

Thingwall 0 0.00%

Greasby & Frankby 0 0.00%

Irby 0 0.00%

Claughton 4 0.10%

Prenton 12 0.30%

Rock Ferry 231 5.86%

Birkenhead & Tranmere 1390 35.27%

Bidston & St James 36 0.91%

Oxton 6 0.15%

Spital 2 0.05%

Woodchurch 20 0.51%

New Ferry 11 0.28%

Totals: 3,941 100.00%

Source : Click me

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Its a bit naughty displaying the numbers and percentages for different areas without also displaying how many man-hours were spent patrolling each area.

They have also prosecuted some fly-tippers eg CLICKY


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
THE first prosecutions of people who failed to pay fixed penalty notices handed out as part of Wirral Council’s “zero-tolerance” crackdown on littering have been brought before the courts.

An £80 fine issued for dropping litter spiraled in to £370 for 16 people who failed to enter a plea or attend court.

In total, 18 cases were dealt with at Wirral Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday, with two people pleading guilty by letter and the other 16 found guilty in their absence.


The 16 who failed to enter a plea or attend court were all hit with a fine of £100, as well as being ordered to pay £100 contribution to the council’s prosecution costs, £150 criminal court costs and a £20 victim surcharge.

http://wirralglobe.co.uk
https://www.wirral.gov.uk/news/06-11-2015/court-convicts-18-non-payment-litter-fine

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
If they had coughed up within 10 days of their criminal offence they might only have needed to pay £60.

If they had appealed within 10 days they might only have had to pay £60 or perhaps nothing.

I wonder how many of these are going to end up getting bailiff fees on top of what they owe all ready?

Well done to the Council for helping make Wirral a cleaner place and trying to drag us out of slum culture.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Whilst I agree with the principle, not with the huge amount that the fines actually are.

Of those 16, how many might be ill ? Ill enough to fail to appreciate the problem, ill enough not to even open any mail, ill enough to not even care ? For those who are ill, who will appeal on their behalf ?

Those with mental health issues, cannot cope with any such stress and simply bury their heads in the sand. Quite often it is those people or those with depression who fail to understand the simple rules, because they can't cope with simple rules. Rules mean little to them and money also means little to them. These people could not even think of attending court. It would make them vomit with fear.

To actually have a £60 fine that reaches £370 is totally out of control.

Wirral Council, you are a disgrace to the people you pretend to support.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
What's the alternative though ? If the council dont do anything after you've dropped litter and ignored an imposed fine, its hardly fair on the people who DO take litter home and those who DO pay their fine and I presume most of the offenders DONT have mental health issues.
Maybe for those who ignore fines ,they could be made to do some 'voluntary' litter picking as an alternative. During the organizing/carrying out , any mental health issues would be spotted , exempted ,and treated accordingly .

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by venice
. During the organizing/carrying out , any mental health issues would be spotted , exempted ,and treated accordingly .


How would they ?

Out of all the fines, there were only 16 who have been given max, for not turning up to court etc. That would indicate there is a deeper problem regarding those people.

Voluntary work could be an alternative for some who are unemployed. There again, being unemployed can cause massive depression.

Last edited by granny; 7th Nov 2015 12:37pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Quote granny
"Out of all the fines, there were only 16 who have been given max, for not turning up to court etc. That would indicate there is a deeper problem regarding those people"

That would surprise me - I think that theres just a lot of 'couldnt be arsed' people around BECAUSE thats just the way they are. They dont see dropping litter as a problem as "it gives a job to a cleaner/roadsweeper" is their convenient mantra ,and they dont mind seeing crap around them everywhere they go.

Theres a field near here where teens like to sit and smoke/eat/talk in the Summer. Pretty spot . Each year they chuck their litter and break glass bottles there, and just move over a few feet to a clearer patch , each time they go! Not bothered at all. I believe these teens will grow into the people we are talking about . The C.B.Arsed group. Yes of course there will be a few people who are genuinely SO mentally poorly they cannot realize/accept there are litter rules, but come on , its not rocket science to pop something in the bin. Acute depression does NOT render you stupid, nor does it in my opinion (except in rare cases) excuse you from keeping to simple rules set for the benefit of all.

Yes, Id go with a warning for first offence though.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wait for the Wirral's most wanted posters next for those that never gave any details.

Never heard of the word caution first offence??

Originally Posted by granny
Whilst I agree with the principle, not with the huge amount that the fines actually are.

To actually have a £60 fine that reaches £370 is totally out of control.

Wirral Council, you are a disgrace to the people you pretend to support.


withthat

When we all get the message, and fines are not so easy to come by, i hope wirral Council this comes back and bites you so hard in the backside.

The fine does no fit the crime.

£60 for littering. . .
Ok your caught, i bet you want to pick it up dont you, for £60 let wirral Council clean it up.

Fine me £10 I will apologies and pick it up for you. If you caution me i will apologise and wish you good day wanting to return to wirral again.

I had friends from London over, and one of them was a smoker, so i give him the low down on this littering crap. He had not heard about it, wasn't aware of it, and said himself there are no signs or warnings.

Kill the visitors off Wirral Council, as my friend said if he was hit with a fine of £80 he would never return again.

Thats what visitors think about your golden rules.


Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
@Venice . Acute depression does not render anyone stupid, in fact many who suffer it are extremely clever. Until someone has experienced the knock on effects of such things ,it's difficult to fully realise how dreadful a time and the symptoms they experience. Not having any money causes acute depression, and probably one of the worst holes to ever fall into. Fines on top of adds suicidal properties.

I would suggest the littler police spend more time in your area Venice, more revenue to be made . wink

You are right about that Mark.

Visitors won't return if there is litter, neither will they return at the cost of a £60 fine. Common sense needs to prevail in such matters, but I dare a say a visitor to the area would be let off, due to pleading ignorance.

Same as parking and dog crap on beaches. I suppose we could demand that dog piddle also be part of the package.
Now that would get some revenue in ! It would also show that we are all guilty of an offence before we place judgement on others.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
One year ago .... Picking up litter in the street is now the task of residents as Newcastle City Council says it can no longer afford to sweep up all of the city’s rubbish.

Is that the situation we want Wirral to be in?

SOURCE


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Well I disagree with the thought that getting fined for litter will keep visitors/tourists away ,but there should be more notices and a warning for first offences ,and then fining for any following offence would be fully justified, and surely people would come MORE if an area was known for being litterfree and therefore more attractive ? If after letting off first offenders plus lets say people seriously enough affected by clinical depression to be being treated by their doctor, but followed through with big fines on the rest , I reckon people WOULD learn not to do it . £10 fines wont deter the C.B.Arsed ones.



Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
So we spend more notices on signs (even though there are plenty around and its common knowledge that littering is illegal).

More money on repairing the signs that get vandalised.

More money warning people (including confirming identity).

More money checking if its first or second offence.

More money administrating the list.

And still not get a penny back off the criminals who make this necessary.

We've been too soft for far too long and its not worked - I don't think anyone can deny that the new strategy will work - when it works there will be very few fines.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

And still not get a penny back off the criminals who make this necessary.


Wish you'd stop using the word "criminal" maybe transgressor would be better.
Criminals to my mind are usually those that commit a crime to which there is no financial gain (such as fines etc) to recompense us
I also think several crimes have now been de-criminalised to keep crime figures down.
Will litter dropping now be classified as a crime thus putting up crime figures on Wirral substantially

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
The statistic for the fines should have the percentage of fines per post code.Birkenhead has a good number of visitors from the areas with a zero fines rating.I am for "one Wirral",and where you drop your litter is of less relevance than knowing what corner of Wirral the culprit came from.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
They are criminals - the 18 people that were prosecuted have now got criminal records because they committed a criminal act.

Littering has not been de-criminalised but there is an immunity from prosecution if you have paid a fixed price notice.

It is legally wrong to litter, it is morally wrong to litter, the council is doing its best to discourage people from littering.

I'm fed up watching people dumping their McDonald's food and rubbish etc openly all over the place as though they have got a god given right to do it, then to add insult to injury I have to pay for it to be cleaned up.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
You seem to think like a toff sometimes DD. In my eyes a criminal offence cannot be neutralised with a cash payment.It is or it is not no ifs no buts, this befuddled thinking is what gets us in a pickle.People who have a genuine reason to challenge the decision of the charge will not. This is then a miscarriage of natural justice which is going down faster than the crime figures for Wirral.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
What i find farcical about getting fined for cigarette butts is that if i were to drop the butt of a cigar I would in essence be fined for dropping a leaf. Something i often do when i empty my pockets after cutting a hedge or bush.
Throwing confetti (paper or rice) is potentially littering --so maybe the litter police would like to wait outside a church or registry office.

Maybe there should be an exemption for people who do not use filters (roll there own) as basically its a leaf and a bit of confetti

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by dustymclean
You seem to think like a toff sometimes DD. In my eyes a criminal offence cannot be neutralised with a cash payment.It is or it is not no ifs no buts, this befuddled thinking is what gets us in a pickle.People who have a genuine reason to challenge the decision of the charge will not. This is then a miscarriage of natural justice which is going down faster than the crime figures for Wirral.


Can't win can you - people say you shouldn't get a criminal record for dropping a small amount of litter, the system changes to make it possible to avoid a criminal record then someone comes along and says the new system is wrong.

I don't understand the toff statement - I believe people shouldn't litter public places and that a £60 fine/penalty is a reasonable deterrent, is that thinking like a toff?

Originally Posted by fish5133
Throwing confetti (paper or rice) is potentially littering --so maybe the litter police would like to wait outside a church or registry office.

In the past, some churches have been told that they must clean up confetti if it outside their premises. Celebrating some poor sod getting married seems a strange thing to do anyway wink


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
I was thinking in more general terms but including litter. It should not be a criminal offence, only for someone who perceives the authority to be wrong and challenges the accuser. My point was It should or should not be a criminal offence. Fines are not a punishment for people with pots of money.(toffs) I have quoted Michael Winner on here before saying "It only costs sixty quid to drive in the bus lane" I would prefer the criminal offence be dropped and people having recourse to justice without the implied threat of criminality.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
http://www.kingdom.co.uk/vacancies/

Birkenhead Job.
http://www.kingdom.co.uk/job-application-form/?JobVacancyId=1043

Environmental Enforcement Officer

Wirral Borough Council<br>
£7.53 per hour plus per performance bonus for meeting monthly job roles of up to £500 per month.

Kingdom are the UK’s leading Environmental Enforcement provider and due to our continued growth within this industry working on behalf of local authorities.  We are now recruiting for the position of Environmental Enforcement Officer based at Wirral Borough Council.
The role will require you to patrol the borough working in line with the relevant local authority’s deployment strategy and issuing Fixed Penalty Notices to offenders in contravention of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. <br>
You will be required to work 40-48 hours per week, Monday to Sunday (including Bank Holidays) shifts between 7am and 8pm, flexibility for the role is essential.


Package Description
We offer candidates the opportunity to being part of an industry leading and respected Security and Environmental Enforcement company with real opportunities of advancement and guaranteed hours contracts as well as a range of employee benefits which includes 20 days annual leave plus 8 days bank holidays.
• Work place pension scheme, if you are eligible or wish to contribute.
• Access to a substantial free online training academy for professional development.
• Company Award Scheme.

The Ideal Candidate<br>
• The ability to communicate with offenders, often in demanding circumstances in a professional manner.
• Previous experience in a customer service role and handling difficult situations in a professional manner.
• Must enjoy working in the outdoors and in all weather conditions.
• Full UK Driving Licence is essential.<br>
• Will be work independently and on own initiative to carry out the enforcement role.
• Excellent communication skills are required both written and spoken
• Will be physically fit as you may be required to carry our foot patrol for prolonged periods.

Please note that all candidates will have to go through a CRB process prior to employment and will need a full five year checkable work history.

Follow a smoker !! Easy Money
Good luck if you wish to apply.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
As a matter of interest, how does this enforcement come into effect with young school children, young teenagers and university/college students ? Two out of the three will certainly have no money to pay any fines. Let's give them a criminal record before they even set off in life, should we ?

Maybe backs are meant to be turned in such cases, which makes a complete mockery of the whole fiasco.

Unfortunately ,I can see a few punches being delivered before it goes much further.

Yes,... to no litter louts, but lets hope a proper procedure can be worked out , rather than Litter Police being given hiked up bonuses for every catch they make, and then it's regained by fines of disproportionate amounts.


Last edited by granny; 7th Nov 2015 10:32pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
penalty notices may be issued to children aged 10 or over, as well as to adults.

In our law and order forum Click me

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Environmental Enforcement Officer

Wirral Borough Council<br>
£7.53 per hour plus per performance bonus for meeting monthly job roles of up to £500 per month.

^Extract from Marks post^

(Partly satire for those who do not know me).

Now, if I was an Environmental Enforcement Officer wanting a Bonus of £500 then I would head to populated areas, not rocket science is it? I would keep my eye on those pesky smokers and mums with babies/ toddlers who *fingers crossed* will drop a Sausage Roll!!! Kerching! Kerching!!

To do my job correctly, I could head to Church Road, St. Pauls Road area in Seacombe. Plenty of dog mess about there, also discarded chippy papers, pizza boxes, cans, chocolate and crisp wrappers too. The thing is, the pedestrian flow is not that high and I would be hanging about looking conspicuous, wearing my laminate...nowhere for me to hide

I could head up to Poulton Road, near Somerville Primary School. Crap on the pavements, in each direction for at least a third of a mile. Do I collar that 10 year old?? (What about my Bonuses)??

Nobody cares about outside of 'business areas'- as long as our retail centres look attractive!?

Look at Liverpool- the pierhead in particular. Clean as a whistle in central/ tourist areas- rest of the City is a shithole.


Last edited by RUDEBOX; 7th Nov 2015 10:54pm.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by dustymclean
It should not be a criminal offence, only for someone who perceives the authority to be wrong and challenges the accuser.


Sorry, can you reword that sentence as I'm finding too many ways of interpreting it and I have a feeling none of them is what you intended (probably my bad). Though I will mention you can appeal an littering FPN without it going criminal whichever way the outcome - and you can maintain the early payment discount.

I've not expressed my opinion on whether littering should or should not be a criminal offence, the following are just thoughts ....

Under the rehabilitation of offenders act (ROA) a fine is classed as spent one year after the offence is committed, so if littering were always a criminal offence you are not a criminal for life (except for security purposes eg VISA applications and certain employments).

If it is never a criminal offence then the Michael Winner example shows it might not work - just pay it and carry on taking the p1ss.

I guess my take is that if you are legally punished over any anti-social event you took an active role in then it should be a criminal matter - that is what the criminal system is there for. I do not understand why speeding (an active offence) is not a criminal offence whilst being drunk in charge of a vehicle (a passive offence) is criminal.

The be all and end all is that if you don't want to be a criminal then don't commit the offence.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Mark
penalty notices may be issued to children aged 10 or over, as well as to adults.

In our law and order forum Click me


Apparently; In the case of an offender between the ages of 10 and 16, the order for payment must be made against the parent or guardian.

Well, if I had a child aged 10 , I'd be very upset to find out, that in this day and age ,someone who they did not know had taken his/her name and address. How can the children check if these people are genuine or not. They don't even look particularly smart or respectable from what I've seen.

It seems to go against all the things children are to be wary of. Only a matter of time before unsavoury characters will pay for such things. CRB checks don't necessarily cover such practices in dark corners.
.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
It's called a D.B.S check now Granny, lets face it- D.B.S checks are only as relevent and current as the day they were distributed.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
It says CRB in the job description, but whatever, just another money spinner.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Do you still get the £7.53 an hour if you dont FPN anyone and simply ask them to pick it up and bin it.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Im sure you would.
What i was suprised to read the hours are from 7am - 8pm.

The only saving grace with the dark nights, is the camera quality is going to alot more restricted. So i would be asking for proof from the camera recording.

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
This bunch of three bell ends went on to damage a garden wall and a bit more. The council did not prosecute and they got a fine of eighty pounds.
This is what I call criminal damage and a council that did not prosecute because of cost is just as bad. (Arno fields)

Attached Images
Bell ends.jpg
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
This bunch of three bell ends

Just love the way that descriptive terms roll off the tongue for various offending youths. Could we start a list that we can choose from when we wish to vent our spleens. cut and paste and add your own. *# etc may need to get past decency rules

bell ends
tossers

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Originally Posted by granny
It says CRB in the job description, but whatever, just another money spinner.
Again, showing incompetence from the Muppets....pathetic.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Ruthin pensioner fined £75 for accidently dropping her till receipt whilst trying to put change in her purse. Angry locals collect and pay her fine.

Have to admire the "balls" these litter enforcement officers have just to get their monthly target bonus.


http://www.denbighshirefreepress.co...ng-a-shopping-receipt-on-the-ground.aspx

Rhos on Sea woman fined for feeding birds in her own garden
A pensioner told to pay £1,149 in fines and costs for feeding birds in her garden has criticised her treatment as "draconian".


http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/rhos-sea-woman-fined-feeding-10291211

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,792
Likes: 3
Although being able to understand the bird problem,the fines totally outweigh the offence.

The till receipt fine is pathetic.

A total disgrace. These councils are becoming more like authoritarian regimes.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
The offence wasn't littering or feeding birds it was for disobeying the community protection order (which is an ASBO in disguise). She didn't even plead guilty so got heavily penalised for costs, her fine was only £200.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Fuel to the fire.
There people being fined and prosecuted over i tiny bit of rubish / litter. Wirral Council wanting wirral to be a cleaner litter free place.

I also want the same thing, but why are your incentive driven litter police in town centers? Ive never seen fly tipping outside a Tesco or Asda Store, you know where your officers duly wait for the smoker to finish a cigarette.

I was driving into Birkenhead and seen a Leather chair dumpped on pavement , my point being you can police and fine in our town centres and tourist attractions fining locals and visitors but your not going to stop flytippers if you target the wrong people (Smokers and old people).

The revenue will eventually stop, and so will our votes to you.

Food for thought.

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
A friend and I used to read the same books and have a discussion about them.We often had a totally different opinion on what we had taken from them.I can never remember a time we disagreed for disagreeing s sake and took on board each others understanding of our individual interpretation of the same.I will leave you with your opinion intact and beg to disagree.

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Beginner
Offline
Beginner
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Hello new to this forum appreciate any help I can get I hope this is the right thread.
A family friend 74 year old lady widower on the 30th of October was in a taxi entrance to Aldi Laird Street when there was a tap on the window and she was asked to get out of the car confused she was told she had committed a littering offence i e cigarette end, then told she could pay a fine from £60 to £2,000 was then told she would receive information in the post obviously upset distressed so much so that the taxi driver had to help her into the house.

On the Tuesday paperwork arrived including the on the spot ticket apparently they do not have to issue them on the spot, as usual £80 fine reduced to £60 if paid quickly, this lady does not have the money for this fine not right away but like all elderly people get very distressed when it appears that the law is involved, I appealed on her behalf was told was told quite quickly I must say that after looking at the body camera they had done nothing wrong and the fine was upheld.

The question I have been trying to get answered is can I have access under the Freedom of Information Act to a copy or a transcript on this camera.
Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
They can't give out copies, but you can make an appointment with them in order to view the footage

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Beginner
Offline
Beginner
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Thank you I will give them a call

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Bet she didn't even know she was littering--ciggy butts were only added to the law 10 years ago as there was some doubt as to whether they constituted litter. Probably been ok if she dropped it in Aldi car park as its private property--unless he was working for Aldi.

She will be ok just have to starve for a week or keep the heating off

Huyton Scousers see off Litter Police





Last edited by fish5133; 12th Nov 2015 10:31pm.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Cigarette butts have always been classed as litter in the eyes of the law. The Litter Act was brought out in 1958 but was weak because of the requirements of proof and responsibility so it was re-enforced in 1983 after the Environmental Protection Act 1974 which was updated in 1990 as well as other later acts in 2003 and 2005.

The first UK anti-littering campaign was in 1951. The Keep Britain Tidy Group was formed in 1954 and has specifically targeted smokers since 1974.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Hi DD.
Read this yesterday hence my comment about ciggies

It is a criminal offence for a person to drop, throw down, or otherwise deposit and then leave litter.
The offence of littering is covered in Sections 87 and 88 of the Environmental Protection Act (EPA)
1990. This act has been updated and amended by the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment
Act (CNEA) 2005 to make it clearer that it the term ‘litter’ now includes smoking related litter and
other discarded items such as chewing gum
. The CNEA has also amended the existing legislation
so that the offence of littering now applies to all places that are open to the air, including both
private and public land and water.
Environmental

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Yes - they made it "clearer" that butts were included, the implication being that it was already fact, if it wasn't already fact then it would be an introduction not a clarification.

Previous to this cigarette butts weren't specifically named (as many thousands of types of litter aren't) but the description of litter did include butts.

The litter act 1983 primary paragraph is

Quote
if any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from any place in the open air to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access without payment, and leaves, any thing whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place in the open air, he shall be guilty of an offence, unless that depositing and leaving was authorised by law or was done with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person or authority having control of the place in or into which that thing was deposited,


Basically saying "any thing whatsoever" counts.

Littering commonly being defined as "untidy with rubbish" or similar.

I can't see any ambiguity that would separate a cigarette butt from a piece of paper.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Are you asking for a viewing because the lady didnt even throw a butt out or are you thinking the photo may show the exact position of the 'offence' and make a difference?

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by Jross
The question I have been trying to get answered is can I have access under the Freedom of Information Act to a copy or a transcript on this camera.
Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you


Details are supplied how you can appeal the decision, do not use the phrase "freedom of information" as that would extend the time they have to let you see the evidence.

Appeal as soon as possible as this retains your right to discount if it is settled within 10 days if you think the evidence adequately shows the offence.

I would not risk going to court unless you are totally convinced there is no evidence, the costs are disproportionate if the case goes against you.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Trying to compile a list of "littering offences" not targeted and will ask wirral council and kingdom for clarification.
Throwing paper or rice confetti at wedding
Feeding bread to birds ducks
Throwing chips to seagull
Peanuts to squirrels
Firing a rocket firework into the air
Throwing a stick for the dog and leaving it
Emptying tea or coffee dregs on grass
In fishing throwing maggots. Etc.into the water
Thriwing down sand or grit

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Leaving collection bags on the pavement/sidewalk (tarmack)
Scraping dog muck or chewy off shoe/tyre/child
Champagne cork outside in summer (Toffs/DD)
broken glass after car theft or break in.
flowers/memorabilia left at scene of whatever. (some historic)
Chinese New Year (red riprap mess)
This should get them off the back of the puffers.


Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Passed out drunks littering the pavement.
Vomit on pavements.
Empty cans in gutters and garden walls.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by dustymclean
Leaving collection bags on the pavement/sidewalk


Biffa wont be pleased lol.

Don't forget leaves from your drive way, ive seen a few people with the blowers, blowing them out on the street.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Taken from this topic : Click Me

Originally Posted by Jross
Thanks for the information I have already appealed on behalf of the lady unfortunately as I said the result was, we have looked at the body camera, and the enforcement officers have done nothing wrong therefore fine is upheld.
The government states that there is certain procedures they must follow and for them to wait until our friend was in the car and the taxi driver ready to drive off then knock on the car window and ask our friend to get out then start using phrases like £60 to £2,000 fines that causes great stress.

The other issue is the government's guidelines state tickets should not be given to vulnerable people in previous guidelines this was stated as mental health and homeless that guideline has been removed and new guidelines just state's vulnerable, and I think any opinion might see a 74 year old widow as vulnerable. The person who gave me the details of the appeal stated vulnerable was mental health only, not true.

The problem is our friend was upset and confused and her re collection differs to what they say is on the body cam.


So another catch yu ?
Taxi pulls up, No Smoking in the Taxi, ciggy dropped £80 Fine.

I would say a 74r old is Vulnerable. Obviously a Slack Day mad

Was it a dropped cigarette on the video ?

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Mark
THE first prosecutions of people who failed to pay fixed penalty notices handed out as part of Wirral Council’s “zero-tolerance” crackdown on littering have been brought before the courts.

An £80 fine issued for dropping litter spiraled in to £370 for 16 people who failed to enter a plea or attend court.

In total, 18 cases were dealt with at Wirral Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday, with two people pleading guilty by letter and the other 16 found guilty in their absence.


The 16 who failed to enter a plea or attend court were all hit with a fine of £100, as well as being ordered to pay £100 contribution to the council’s prosecution costs, £150 criminal court costs and a £20 victim surcharge.

http://wirralglobe.co.uk
https://www.wirral.gov.uk/news/06-11-2015/court-convicts-18-non-payment-litter-fine


That's not £2,000 pound !!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Online Content
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Jross
this lady does not have the money for this fine


But money for fags and taxis?

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Cold,dark wet and windy nights and not much else to do.
Thanks guys for your other littering offences suggestions. I have compiled a list and written (yes paper, envelope and stamp) to Wirral Council, Kingdom and also Keep Britain Tidy for clarifications. Will post up anything of interest

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Double Fine : ?? its possible on a bad day ?

You get caught dropping litter frown
Litter police comes over and issues you a ticket for the fist offence.

You disagree and throw his Fix Penalty Notice away !!

I guess you will get a double fine in the post.....


It always reminds me of Jim Davidson, saying he was caught speeding 3 times with in an hour !
His argument was he never slowed down, so how can you get me 3 times lol.


- - - - -
So if you have a skip on the street as your having home improvements, does this now qualify as a possible fine if something blows off int to the road ? Or is littering the Human Touch think

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Gibbo
Originally Posted by Jross
this lady does not have the money for this fine


But money for fags and taxis?


Its only been over the last few years as relatives are becoming older etc, i understand why they may get a taxi.
Its mainly health issues and its that one big shop a week or fortnight. Trying to remain independent for as long as possible.
Arthritis, safety, health issues. You will find they do live quite close but just too far to stand at a bus stop.

Thats just one possible reason.
Not affording the fine but getting a taxi are probably needs must.

Smoking well thats a argument, with a thousands for and a thousand against.

Personally pensioners should be exempt or dealt with more individually, I think after 70yrs they know the difference of right and wrong and a tap on the shoulder or a letter of explanation would go alot further.

Only my thoughts, as this whole subject of £80 fines gets right up my nose smile

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4

A WIRRAL man has spoken of his shock after he was given a £60 fine for littering after a bookmark fell out of his book as he left work in Birkenhead.

David Ellis, from Liscard, had just finished his shift at Faiveley Transport on Thursday afternoon when he was handed the fine - which goes up to £80 if it is not paid within 10 days - following what he says was a “genuine accident”.

Read More click me

So his ticket said discarded cigarette, must be a default setting on the machines.

Windy day, should be given the opportunity to pick it up.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Yeah wirral Council have dismissed the fine. They got it wrong they say

I say


When not to issue a fixed penalty notice

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums...-neighbourhoods-act-2005.html#Post986101

Lots more on the subject

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums...l-litter-police-80-fines.html#Post953329

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
There’s been much clamour in the local press concerning the overzealous pursuit of alleged litter louts or more accurately those who happen to be easy targets of litter Hitlers issuing Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) at the drop of a bookmark.

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/1...enalty_quashed_after_Globe_intervention/

Now as our readers will know we have a particular aversion to filth and detritus at Leaky Towers which may explain why we report so often on the dirty dealings of Wirral Council. Therefore whilst we realise the days of the Litter Defence Volunteers have long gone we would usually wholeheartedly applaud efforts to keep Wirral tidy. However we also realise that standards in local public life have also fallen into the gutter.So when we read that fines from FPNs issued by Kingdom Security Ltd on behalf of Wirral Council had topped well over a quarter of a million pounds in the first three months of their mutually beneficial arrangement we began to question the motivation behind the cash for trash scheme.

Is this more about swelling Council coffers than about environmental concerns ?.

One of our sources shares these concerns and has provided Wirral Leaks with information that suggests that Kingdom Security Ltd are clearly incentivising their staff to issue Fixed Penalty Notices and at the same time misleading councils about it across the UK.

Our source informs us that Kingdom bought up a company called XFor who were an environmental enforcement company, who are mentioned in the articles below .The XFor Directors now run the environmental enforcement for Kingdom. These articles talk about incentivising with XFor, a practice that is being continued with Kingdom.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/10300588.Litter_fines_firm_goes_into_administration/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21200058

Another article shows a previous Kingdom officer who worked in Merton and was fired for sticking up for the public because they were wrongfully being fined. There is also mention of a £5 bonus for each ticket issued. This practice went on despite Merton Council responding in a a Freedom of Information Request that : “Under our agreement with Kingdom security no incentive scheme or structure is in place. Staff are not rewarded for the volume of FPNs issued.”

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/...p_for_public__claims_council_litter_cop/

Consequently following the recent bad local press Kingdom have been quick to take down their job advert showing that these incentive bonuses are part of the job description of their grandly-titled Senior Environmental Enforcement Officers .
Fortunately our quick thinking source saved a copy before it was removed :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzQAnNSJw0cgVlVSaEJ5TUlxSzZCTmxncGtZYjk3cXJSQ0ln/view

These job adverts and various articles in the press clearly show that Kingdom Security Ltd are incentivising their staff to issue more tickets. If councils are clearly stating they prohibit this, are Kingdom in breach of their contracts ?. And could this mean that every ticket they have issued has been done without proper authority and everyone who has been fined is entitled to claim the fines back from these councils ?.

Here are some further examples where Kingdom Security Ltd are accused of overzealous issuing of FPNs.

ttps://www.change.org/p/conwy-council-terminate-the-employment-of-the-private-enforcement-firm-kingdom-security

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/axe-security-firms-contract-now-5678491

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/canterbury-cigarette-gestapo-jibe-17685/

http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Coup...te-land/story-27818196-detail/story.html

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/1..._258_000_as_council_crackdown_continues/

http://www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Coup...te-land/story-27818196-detail/story.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-peel-size-10p-piece-binned-anyway.html

Sounds like Wirral Council undertook their usual fail safe “due diligence” exercise before they entered into their contract with Kingdom.Indeed we’d be particularly interested to know whether Kingdom informed the Council that the Home Office have imposed illegal working civil penalties amounting to £15,000 on them !.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../464535/CPCT_NW_WEBSITE_JAN-MAR_2015.pdf

Therefore might we suggest that Wirral Council should have checked that Kingdom Security Ltd had cleared up their own mess before allowing them to inflict their charmless enforcers on the long suffering public of Wirral.There’s certainly no mention of any of the above on Kingdom’s own blog where they boast : “Kingdom Makes Incredible Start on Wirral”.

http://blog.kingdom.co.uk/2015/07/kingdom-makes-incredible-start-in-wirral.html

We’re left wondering if the shit hits the fan on this one who’s there to pick up the tab?.

Source : click me


Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
I wonder think

You get a ticket, from the environmental officer. (Following me), and as they hands you the print out from the little machine to say you have been fined, you forget to close your fingers as they let go. . ..

And now they are littering omg
Should we give them a chance to pick it up or zero tolerance and £80 ??
Or would they say it's yours as it has your name on it.

That would be a good one to find out.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Fines are about to go up to £150

"Adrian Evans, the chief executive of the Clean for the Queen campaign, also warned that littering has become so commonplace in Britain that some people think it is their "human right" to drop rubbish"

SOURCE



We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Quote
Litter fines must increase because the middle classes no longer see stigma with dropping rubbish, the Government has been told.


So why are elderly and Smokers the target outside shopping centers.
Middle class have shopping delivered (im kidding).

If i got caught littering accidentally a £20 fine would get the message across.

£150 i hope there gonna offer a payment plan.
Anyone who may be lower down the food chain less than middle class would be crippled with a hit of £150

Pay early schemes benefits the middle class as there in a position to pay wrong wrong wrong. . .

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
If the aim is to stop littering , surely a highly visible sight of the litter officers would deter anyone of thinking about dropping their litter (maybe a full size cardboard litter officer put in strategic places)

I think this is all about the money to be got.

If I had the money I'd buy shares in private companies fining on commission, (such as Kingdom). Wouldn't be surprised if those in the know haven't already got their snouts in that particular trough



Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
I suspect the increase may be due to the fewer number of fines they expect as the message gets across to people. Fixed costs for kingdom still the same (unless they make enforcement officers redundant )and councils still want their slice.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Online Happy
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Ive just watched this on sky news and the angle they are implying is litterers being the likes that throw away, bags of chips, cans of beer, but not tiny bits of paper or ciggies at all.

But in reality its smokers old people and the person feeding the ducks or a snack for the seagulls.

My opinion of littering is thoses throwing takeaways in the street, bottles and cans of beer, pizza boxes and car ashtrays. For me that is with intent and deserves a fine. Of about £40 but £150 does not fit the crime at all.

Its back to the fly tippers.
If a recent case had a fine of £1,500 for a fly tipper its not proportionate to a ciggy dump possibly being fined £150.

They should be also shamed into cleaning up as a community service to get the message home.

And again.
Those who dont care will throw litter without a thought, and wont pay or change there attitude under a fine scheme. Education like people get with a speeding first offence. But fine fine fine will only anger so many.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
#cleanforthequeen

www.cleanforthequeen.co.uk

Pathetic. Like she cares about litter on our streets? Pffft

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
#cleanforthequeen

www.cleanforthequeen.co.uk

Pathetic. Like she cares about litter on our streets? Pffft


I am sure she picks up her own horse droppings and corgi *rap.
Seem to remember a campaign around 40 years ago as school kids. We painted LDV (Litter Defense Volunteers) on white tea shirts and went around Thursaston Common picking up litter and asking Miss what those funny rubber things were littering the car park.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
I have said it before and I will say it again.

These Enforcement Officers only operate in epicentres of capitalism..... now, what does that say???

Our out of town areas are still riddled with rubbish but nobody (in authority)seems to care about that???


Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Originally Posted by fish5133
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
#cleanforthequeen

www.cleanforthequeen.co.uk

Pathetic. Like she cares about litter on our streets? Pffft


I am sure she picks up her own horse droppings and corgi *rap.
Seem to remember a campaign around 40 years ago as school kids. We painted LDV (Litter Defense Volunteers) on white tea shirts and went around Thursaston Common picking up litter and asking Miss what those funny rubber things were littering the car park.
Oh....the 'snakeskins', we used to tell the kids- encountered on the shore. laugh

Keep Britain Tidy must have been an impressive campaign (I was a kid) I have always bagged and binned rubbish. Always -apart from fag ends, to be honest.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,362
Likes: 21
George Stanley has been done for fly tipping in Bromborough.

SOURCE


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Page 1 of 13 1 2 3 12 13

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard