Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History England's forgotten railway stations

Nice group of pics Billy : Second one along showing the frontage of Central Station with building to the right.

Chris, it's the same building as shown in Herdman's painting above, which turns out to be the Lyceum. No.I Bold Street,Liverpool 1. Looking on your map the façade can be seen facing Waterloo Place. so it must be the side view of the Lyceum.



http://liverpoolwalks.co.uk/003/lyceumv.htm

Interesting to compare the above photo with one from billy's posts.

http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ol...stolivcntaluner.jpg.html?sort=4&o=45

Ah, now I understand, Granny. Of course, that's the Lyceum in Herdman's painting (Greek, the grove where Aristotle taught; isn't a classical education wonderful? Also, the root of the French word for school: lycée). So, when the station was built, the Waterloo hotel and probably most of the buildings as far as Fairclough St. were demolished.
https://goo.gl/maps/BO1YB

Grand Central Hall was originally opened in 1905 as the Central Hall of the Liverpool Wesleyan Mission,former mission andWesleyan chapel dating from 1790.
Peter Quiggins. On the Quiggns team was Peter Quiggins a former BNP and National Front Member.
No connection to Central Station, J-Demmo.

That map has confused me. Can't imagine what is actually surrounding the entrance to the station. It looks somewhat bare at the front but in fact I can't remember it being that way. Even last year. Must study it more. Thanks Chris

Must be going loopy. Yes, now understand it to be the shops etc. within and around the station entrance, including the 'walk through' areas. Sorry for being silly

the same ones used to clean hospitals? Before MRSA showed up

Re the disinfectant smell.

Up until a few years ago, if you stood looking into the window of a particular jewlers shop on the north side of Lord Street, you would get a 'whif' of that smell every so often, just like at a railway station.

I used to think that they used the same stuff to clean their frontage, being right by a food shop (Sayers?), just incase it had been used as a convinience during the night.

However, I noticed an unusual cast iron grating in the pavement between the flags and the front wall of the shop. It had to be over a shaft of some description, going down to the railway tunnel beneath Lord St. Every couple of minutes, a train would go throught and push some of the air out from beneath - smell and all.

I suppose if it was raining, then there would have been some extra drips in the tunnel.

By the way, it's not visable anymore and that branch of Sayers has moved. The grid dissapeared when the pavement was relaid to match the others in the area after Liverpool One opened.

Interesting info Norton - Thanks. If it was a shaft down to the tunnel directly below, I wonder if it was a vent shaft for the steam and smoke (pre-1903 electrification of the MR). I would guess it's roughly equidistant twixt Central and James Street. I further wonder if there originally was a fan house there, like the one in Hamilton Street (midway point between HS & BC) until the 1970's ? I've not seen any mention of one at that location but........

The pong of phenols put down at JS and LC platforms and passageways could certainly of been pushed along by the trains to where you describe. The plot thickens.

A pre-1903 large scale map of Lord Street may be the answer ?

Unfortunately my maps of Liverpool pre-date the MR.
Was the jewellers Boodle & Dunthorne?

The vent I remember was far too small to have been of use to ventilate the steam trains in the tunnel. It was only about 4 to 6 feet long and no more than about 8 inches wide - a bit like those with glass in for basement lights or the ones that take rainwater to the gutter. I think there were four slots in it, each about 1.5 inches wide, and each one just under half the width and half the length of the frame each, as the frame was also about 1.5 inches with a central and a longditudinal rib. (A squashed cross in a rectangle shape.)

As this was at the 'top end' of Lord St, then it was only about a quarter of the way to Central, so there may have been more of different size and shapes near to Whitechapel and M&S.

We can guage the size and frequency of the smoke vents used at the time by looking at the Northern Line from above. This uses the tunnel created to extend the line from Brunswick dock to Central Station (surface level). As a rough guide, the shafts are about the size of a small house or shop, and are less than 200 yards apart.

Part of the deal for this extension to terminate at Central Station was to allow the tracks of the new line from Brunswick Dock (and Hunts Cross etc.) to be aligned directly above the end of the exsisting Mersey Railway line. The idea was that at some future date, a cutting could be created to connect the two lines at the same level, giving a direct line from the Mersey Railway out to Manchester, eventually.

The tracks were eventually aligned, not in the 1880's, but in the 1970's, to produce the Northern Line. The origial Mersey Railway platform at Central Low Level, built as a terminus for the cross-river trains, is now the platform for the Northern Line trains, while the Wirral Line platforms are beneath them at deep level. The official openning of the Merseyrail Loop and Link lines was on 28th October 1978, and was performed by HM The Queen.

Now, back to venting the tunnel between Central and Brunswick stations. If you look on Google towards the top of Bold St you will find Back Berry St (parallel with Berry St) and on it, between Wood St and Seel St, is a strang rectangular shape, almost the size of a house and surrounded by some old stables. This is the first vent, a mere 115 yards up from the openning at the back of Central.

The tunnel continues under Berry St and Great George St without any obvious vents until it reaches Parliment St and St James Place, where it emerges in a cutting on the south side of the junction before dissapearing underground again, on its way to Grafton St. In between, there are three other vents of different sizes.

Given the eratic spacings of the vents we can still see, and the fact that none have really been needed since 1903, then it's my guess that quite a few have been covered over. Lord St and Church St have changed enourmously in that time, and Great George St has been redeveloped as well, since ths last steam trains ran along that tunnel, so anything could have happened.

So now, all we need is just a bit of ventilation for when the diesel maintenance trains go underground.

The section of tunnel between Central High level & St James & onward was used by regular steam trains until 1966

Bob.

I think the jewelers I was thinking of was the 'Half Price Jewelers' next to Sayers. Both shops have now gone to new owners. I look but can't afford to shop at Boodles as it has too many £000's.! Thanks for giving the last year of steam along that tunnel, Bob. It all helps.

As the topic is about lost railway stations, then I should have mentioned that the vent or opening at Parliament Street and St. James Street was actually built for St. James station, but it closed a long time ago. Some consideration has been given to opening it up to serve the Baltic Triangle, but it entails a lot of work.

So, what did Bradshaw say about the line from Chester to Birkenhead when he wrote his guide in 1863? The text is attached below. Some have long gone and some have been renamed.

Boodles still have a shop in Chester, which I view sometimes; I agree about the 000's
I see that Bradshaw mis-named Storeton as Stamton.
I also note that when he wrote, there was a station at Rock Lane (1846-1862) before Rock Ferry opened in 1891.

p.s. I see that anyone relying on Bradshaw's 1863 guide to use Rock Lane station would have been disappointed, since it closed in 1862.