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http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-home-office-jacqueline-nantumbwe-must-stay#HOME OFFICE REFERENCE N1178674/002 Jacqueline is a lesbian woman from Uganda, where homosexuality is a crime and politicians and religious leaders are campaigning for the death penalty. She was forced into an arranged marriage with a man. Jacqueline was discovered with her then girlfriend, Rose, and Jacqueline was imprisoned, tortured and "correctively" raped as punishment for being gay. Rose was not heard from again. Jacqueline fled Uganda and came to England in 2006, applying for asylum in 2012, but her initial application was turned down because she had been too scared to request asylum straight away. The Home Office re-assigned Jacqueline to the North West in 2013, away from her new partner of 5 years, who must stay in London. They have both been refused asylum thus far on the grounds that they have not sufficiently proven their lesbianism, despite Jacqueline being an active member of various local LGBT groups. It has been suggested that gay couples seeking asylum submit sexually explicit home videos as evidence. Jacqueline needs your signatures. Please stand up for LGBT rights and save Jacqueline from deportation and possible execution.
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This is barbaric!!!!Jaqueline is due to be carted off to Yarlswood tomorrow.Sign Sign Sign. Share Share Share
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated.
Last edited by SUExx; 26th Jan 2014 6:51pm.
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Submit sexually explicit videos...... what more proof is needed that these rules and regulations and dreamt up by a bunch of w@nkers.
Being Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Bi is a state of mind, it's a feeling, an attraction, it's your SEXUALITY, the videos would just be your SEX, there is a big difference.
I think the best way I've ever heard used to explain this is when someone was berating a guy for 'choosing' to be gay and saying that it was his 'choice' to be that way.
His reply was inspiring, he asked if he thought he could stop being gay if he now 'chose' to sleep with women, his antagonist said that that was all he needed to do. He told him that he had no attraction whatsoever to women and that it wouldn't be a choice, however if it was that easy, why didn't HE 'choose' to sleep with another man.
The guy was furious that he should make such a suggestion, that to force him to sleep with other men was completely unnatural and that all he wanted to be with was a woman and he had no interest in men at all.
Point made.
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Jaqueline lives in Liverpool at the moment.
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Submit sexually explicit videos...... what more proof is needed that these rules and regulations and dreamt up by a bunch of w@nkers.
Being Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Bi is a state of mind, it's a feeling, an attraction, it's your SEXUALITY, the videos would just be your SEX, there is a big difference.
I think the best way I've ever heard used to explain this is when someone was berating a guy for 'choosing' to be gay and saying that it was his 'choice' to be that way.
His reply was inspiring, he asked if he thought he could stop being gay if he now 'chose' to sleep with women, his antagonist said that that was all he needed to do. He told him that he had no attraction whatsoever to women and that it wouldn't be a choice, however if it was that easy, why didn't HE 'choose' to sleep with another man.
The guy was furious that he should make such a suggestion, that to force him to sleep with other men was completely unnatural and that all he wanted to be with was a woman and he had no interest in men at all.
Point made. 
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Jaqueline lives in Liverpool at the moment. But not from this country originally. Send them back to their own country.
Last edited by SUExx; 26th Jan 2014 7:14pm.
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Jaqueline lives in Liverpool at the moment. But not from this country originally. Send them back to their own country. But this IS going on in our country, or are you saying that their life is worth less and they have fewer rights if they're not actually born here. Once we decide that certain groups of people should have less rights than others we're taking away everything that various groups (including one that you belong to, women) have campaigned for for years, to make everyone equal.
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![[Linked Image]](https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/13143/filename/sig.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/13362/filename/rant0000.gif) Putin khuilo
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18 Jan 2014 http://www.news.com.au/world/uganda...abnormality/story-fndir2ev-1226804636929UGANDAN President Yoweri Museveni has refused to approve a controversial bill that would have seen homosexuals jailed for life, insisting that there were better ways to cure the "abnormality'' I think they see it in a slightly different way, but at least they are considering a change in the law.
Last edited by granny; 26th Jan 2014 7:34pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Jaqueline lives in Liverpool at the moment. But not from this country originally. Send them back to their own country. Have you checked out the rest of UKIP policies ? In my opinion- I am astounded by your ignornce.
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Last edited by RUDEBOX; 26th Jan 2014 7:53pm.
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So im ignorant because I disagree.
Not everyone has your beliefs.
So stop having ago at people who might disagree with you, thats what causes agro on threads.
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Who said she was forced into marriage?.
Who said she was raped?.
Who said Rose! could not be found?,.
Who said she could be executed.
She takes 6 years to apply for asylum.
Most apply before they leave their own country!.
Send her back where she came from.
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Sue, I agree with you. I would like to see the lesbians videos though, I will sign for that.
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For gods sake, who cares not me.
Not more, lets protest stuff.
There is enough going on in our own country to worry about, such as youngsters who feel the need to take their own lives or babies/children being ill treated. Sue, I agree with you. I would like to see the lesbians videos though, I will sign for that. Thats all wrong.Sue is making a point that babies/children being ill treated and youngsters taking there own lives,Why a vid?
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Mandy.. Oh Mandy.... he means he was joking and he would like to see lesbians on tape.
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Just had an angry lesbian sending me a pm. 
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what ever turns him on lol.
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No tape for you, naughty boy :-)
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No tape for you, naughty boy :-) your funny.you got him told zipper.
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would all the racists please raise their right hands 
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Am not racists.its no laughing matter,i bet all on here agree,Don t matter who is gay or colour or creed.This country has enough to cope with.am one for sure wont raise my hand.As i deal with all ethnic poeple and reglions its my job.Irest my case.Idont why this member put this on.There is worse goes on.
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
oh, mandy, you forgot to say "i'm not racist BUT..."
Last edited by mrhanky; 27th Jan 2014 12:33am.
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am not.its fine with me.Its not new to me.The bottom line is we have to get our country together.
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Oh please what a load of shit, weres the proof. She is chatting bubbles. Why not give her a free house, and other handouts they can get why your at it.
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LINK It happens. Except in this country they wont get away with it. now all get back to your coronation street and football.
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Yes it happens we see it all over the news. But I would put money on that she is not telling the full truth. Read a very similar story to this and it turned out she had run of with a load of money and made out she was a prisoner and got raped and Beat up. But I suppose we may never find.
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This story interested me, so I've been looking around the web to see if anything doesn't ring true.
We can all agree that Uganda does not have a good track record with Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual. So that's not really in question.
We can't (properly) check on her activities in Uganda, so her sexuality there cannot be established with any degree of certainty. That means we must base everything on her life here.
In the seven years she has been here she has lived with an openly lesbian partner for five of them.
She is an active campaigner for LGBT rights.
She is an active member of her local LGBT church choir.
It would therefore "appear" that she is a definite part of the LGBT community, and has been for the entire period that she has been in this country. Even if, and that's a VERY big "if" it has all been a scam to stay here, the FACT that she has been living this life for so long would mean that she would treated as though it were true if she is sent back to Uganda.
As for benefits and free houses, she doesn't want them, Jacqueline Nantumbwe is registered as a highly qualified and experienced midwife, a position she can easily resume given the number of vacancies in this area. Not a drain on the NHS but a direct asset to it.
Or maybe we SHOULD send her back, and follow what happens, let the world see as she is slaughtered because of her sexuality, so that this never has to happen again.
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I was being sarcastic over the free house doc. At the end of the day she not are problem. Shame we dont think about are own more, like has been said we have biger things to deal with in the uk as it is wthout adding to it, We can go on forever over this but we will never no the facts so is pointless
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Old Hand
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It is not a question of "we have enough to cope with" or "it is not our problem". Ofcourse it is our problem this poor woman is going to be subjected to the most horrific torture. All the original poster has asked is that we tick a box. Nobody has asked anybody to march,pay any money or even leave their sofa just a simple response please.
She is in our country and we cannot let her be sent back.
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I understand this is a local positive help forum so why we are being asked to protest about foreigners who we do not know is beyond me.
It is much better to get on with enjoying your lives as British locals than protesting about the rights of immigrants.
So stay at home, relax and chill out. Besides which it is too cold to go on unnecessary and disruptive marches.
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Man's inhumanity to man makes countless thousands mourn!
Robert Burns
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
George Bernard Shaw
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Always eager to help eh nem, I mean yeah its not our problem, we should have ignored the Nazis too, I mean they wanted to be our friends, we should have stayed out of it, it was nothing to do with us.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to stand by and do nothing.
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“When will there be peace on earth?
When the earth has fallen to pieces.”
Tupac Shakur
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
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Mmm, I rest my case.
Glad to know im not the only ignorant one, and others do agree with me.
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Always eager to help eh nem, I mean yeah its not our problem, we should have ignored the Nazis too, I mean they wanted to be our friends, we should have stayed out of it, it was nothing to do with us.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to stand by and do nothing. How utterly stupid and way off the topic matter. The Nazis wanted to invade us - I very much doubt that the lesbians have the same idea!
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797) Yes Burke my name and Burke by Nature. Why quote him?
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Man's inhumanity to man makes countless thousands mourn!
Robert Burns
The Race card again I see. As far as I am concerned and millions of others in this country - Yes we are far too small to take in all these supposedly tortured immigrants, perhaps the French of the Germans could give her asylum, I wonder why she chose to come here? Would it by any chance be for benefits under our International Health Service or the International Benefit system which gives out houses to immigrants and asylum seekers before our own people? I am afraid I believe Charity begins at home. Sir Thomas Browne (1605-1682)
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Granny them smilies look too yellow send them back home 
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Oh dear silly me, I thought we along with the French declared war on Germany after we gave them an ultimatum over Poland.
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The Nazis wanted to invade us - I very much doubt that the lesbians have the same idea!
You're wrong; Hitler wanted us to be his ally and if Edward V111 had remained king, it's quite likely that we would have done exactly that. It was only when we got a strong, (but reluctant), king in George V1 that the stance of the British changed.
Carpe diem.
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It is not a question of "we have enough to cope with" or "it is not our problem". Ofcourse it is our problem this poor woman is going to be subjected to the most horrific torture. All the original poster has asked is that we tick a box. Nobody has asked anybody to march,pay any money or even leave their sofa just a simple response please.
She is in our country and we cannot let her be sent back.
See thats why we have nods going round trying to bomb us and all the wars thats going on around the world. Because our lovely country and people like yourself making it are business. Leave them to get on with it not are problem.
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Update:
Dear Friends,
I am Jacqueline Nantumbwe's pastor and wanted to write to thank you for signing her petition to stay in the UK. As you know she is a lesbian asylum seeker from Uganda. On Friday Jacqueline was detained when she went to report at Dallas Court in Salford and, on Sunday, she was moved to Yarl's Wood Immigration Removal Centre. Her legal team are working on the Fresh Claim today and, once this is submitted, Jacqueline will have the right to apply for bail. I will keep you posted about this.
In the meantime I'd like to ask you to do one more thing for Jacqueline. The Borders Agency give detainees mobile phones so they can keep in touch with family and friends. They are allowed to keep their own phones too but the phones which are given to them are monitored - both texts and calls. The Borders Agency get worried when a detainee has huge public support -they look after them better, greater care is taken on the consideration of their cases and the Asylum Tribunal Judges tend to make better decisions when the court room is full of supporters. I thought we could use these two facts to make a difference. I'd like you to take a few moments to send Jacqueline a text saying that she's in your thoughts (and if you're religious please say your prayers too as Jacqueline is a Christian and values the prayers of her supporters too). Please just send a short message, and your name, to Jacqueline on 07979 477999. Please don't expect a reply - if this works she will have hundreds and hundreds of texts!
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Omg it gets better by the minute
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Omg it gets better by the minute Not for Jacqueline though.
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It is not a question of "we have enough to cope with" or "it is not our problem". Ofcourse it is our problem this poor woman is going to be subjected to the most horrific torture. All the original poster has asked is that we tick a box. Nobody has asked anybody to march,pay any money or even leave their sofa just a simple response please.
She is in our country and we cannot let her be sent back.
So you believe everything someone says... Gullible.. She and more like her don't belong here, send her and all the rest of the immigrants back to where they were born
Last edited by ZipperClub; 27th Jan 2014 7:17pm.
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I do wonder sometimes what type of human being turns round and says they can't be bothered trying (even by ticking a box) to make the world a better place.
Are you saying that you are happy that a person should be deported and you would be ok with them being tortured and possibly killed simply because of the sex of the adult they fall in love with?
Or is it just too much effort to be bothered? And where will you draw the line where it becomes worthwhile?
When it becomes expat Britons tortured for the colour of their skin in a similar country? Would you act then?
When it becomes British citizens killed on holiday for 'disrespecting' local customs unwittingly? Is that worth the effort?
To basically say it is ok for people to be tortured and worse for their sexuality (or it is not your business) I think says more about you as a human being than any other measure you can think of.
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Who said she is going to be tortured?
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Who said she is going to be tortured? http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-home-office-jacqueline-nantumbwe-must-stay#HOME OFFICE REFERENCE N1178674/002 Jacqueline is a lesbian woman from Uganda, where homosexuality is a crime and politicians and religious leaders are campaigning for the death penalty. She was forced into an arranged marriage with a man. Jacqueline was discovered with her then girlfriend, Rose, and Jacqueline was imprisoned, tortured and "correctively" raped as punishment for being gay. Rose was not heard from again. Jacqueline fled Uganda and came to England in 2006, applying for asylum in 2012, but her initial application was turned down because she had been too scared to request asylum straight away. The Home Office re-assigned Jacqueline to the North West in 2013, away from her new partner of 5 years, who must stay in London. They have both been refused asylum thus far on the grounds that they have not sufficiently proven their lesbianism, despite Jacqueline being an active member of various local LGBT groups. It has been suggested that gay couples seeking asylum submit sexually explicit home videos as evidence. Jacqueline needs your signatures. Please stand up for LGBT rights and save Jacqueline from deportation and possible execution. It's safe to say she would receive the same treatment if sent back!
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Who in UGANDA said she is going to be tortured?
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Thats the norm zipper, other countries are far different than ours.
for instance, if your wife had an affair over in india she would be stoned to death by the general public in the open and in front of men women and children.
if they steal a tangerine for instance, they would have a hand chopped off.
people are so ignorant these days.
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Have anyone check out the surname of Miss Uganda 2013?
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15 years ago My friend and I got deported from Australia for being to violent in nightclubs where we were hired as bouncers. If I go on Facebook and see if I can get up a petition to let Australia let me back in, who will sign it?
Or am I talking a load of rubbish?.
Which I do normally anyway LOL (before any one else says it)
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Have anyone check out the surname of Miss Uganda 2013? Omg, it`s not Rudebox is it????
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15 years ago My friend and I got deported from Australia for being to violent in nightclubs where we were hired as bouncers. Australia are very stringent, especially nowadays.
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I do wonder sometimes what type of human being turns round and says they can't be bothered trying (even by ticking a box) to make the world a better place.
Are you saying that you are happy that a person should be deported and you would be ok with them being tortured and possibly killed simply because of the sex of the adult they fall in love with?
Or is it just too much effort to be bothered? And where will you draw the line where it becomes worthwhile?
When it becomes expat Britons tortured for the colour of their skin in a similar country? Would you act then?
When it becomes British citizens killed on holiday for 'disrespecting' local customs unwittingly? Is that worth the effort?
To basically say it is ok for people to be tortured and worse for their sexuality (or it is not your business) I think says more about you as a human being than any other measure you can think of.
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Oh please what a load of shit, weres the proof. She is chatting bubbles. Why not give her a free house, and other handouts they can get why your at it. You got a point there.Anything for money to tell a story 
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Oh please what a load of shit, weres the proof. She is chatting bubbles. Why not give her a free house, and other handouts they can get why your at it. You got a point there.Anything for money to tell a story Exactly
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Where is Jacqueline selling her story? Links please.
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so by what people are saying it's like this children in need= I've got no kids why should I give a shit if a kid needs a new heart fred worked everyday from the age of 13 now at 63 he's lost his job = workshy lazy get a job why should I pay my tax for him someone knocks over a cat/dog they didn't see = hang them/ lock them up 
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Makes one wonder.you cant get done for knocking over a cat but you can a dog.So whats your point?
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Makes one wonder.you cant get done for knocking over a cat but you can a dog.So whats your point? just poeple being poeple thats all
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President Yoweri Museveni autocratic president of Uganda has murdered more Africans than Amin and Abote combined. Britain will give Uganda 101.5 million this year, a scale back of a third from 2010.We are the second highest contributor. He was found guilty of crimes against humanity in The Democratic Republic of Congo DRC when Uganda invaded in 1998/2004.an estimated six million Africans (people) lost their lives.
When oil comes on stream in 2015 he will not need Aid money.
"Water Aid" give £23 at Uganda water Aid this will buy a tap.
She does,t want to go back and who can blame her.I think to some extent this and previous Governments owe her for supporting the crackpots running that country.He bought himself a private jet,but don,t let that put you off sending your £23.
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She and more like her don't belong here, send her and all the rest of the immigrants back to where they were born
what a bullshit comment! The worlds governed by idiots, nobody owns the world, far from it, people should be free to choose wherever they want to go.
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She and more like her don't belong here, send her and all the rest of the immigrants back to where they were born
what a bullshit comment! The worlds governed by idiots, nobody owns the world, far from it, people should be free to choose wherever they want to go. I agree to a point but too many come to this country and take the piss.
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We should vote to get out the UE.Isuppose its about human rights
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And all the 3rd world countries will come to England and ask for our jobs, houses etc. You have to stop people, that's why we have enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. Ste would have the UK grind to a halt overnight if he had his way.
Yours is a bigger bullshit comment, I`m afraid Ste
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i think some people will only be happy when we are living in little huts and throw rocks at the people in the next village??
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Tell the Usa to get rid of border control to keep out the Mexicans..
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The 3rd world countries are a disgrace,The money goes in the rich mans pockets and the poor suffer.
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And all the 3rd world countries will come to England and ask for our jobs, houses etc. You have to stop people, that's why we have enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. Ste would have the UK grind to a halt overnight if he had his way.
Yours is a bigger bullshit comment, I`m afraid Ste Very true Zipper.
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When we get invaded by Ste`s mates, we can share huts
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And all the 3rd world countries will come to England and ask for our jobs, houses etc. You have to stop people, that's why we have enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. Ste would have the UK grind to a halt overnight if he had his way.
Yours is a bigger bullshit comment, I`m afraid Ste Different when you got chucked out of australia though eh zipper? suppose you had a right to be there?
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And all the 3rd world countries will come to England and ask for our jobs, houses etc. You have to stop people, that's why we have enforcement officers trying to do their jobs. Ste would have the UK grind to a halt overnight if he had his way.
Yours is a bigger bullshit comment, I`m afraid Ste Different when you got chucked out of australia though eh zipper? suppose you had a right to be there? At least he didn't go there sponging and draining the country.
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I was sent back where I was born Ste.
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Can you all be reasonable please.Back on topic.As for sponging there is a different thread for that.
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What I want to know is, did they make a video to prove they are lesbians?
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What I want to know is, did they make a video to prove they are lesbians? Why do you want to watch it?
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What I want to know is, did they make a video to prove they are lesbians? Why do you want to watch it? No, certainly not! I'm just curious.
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Read the first post,billy
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Read the first post,billy It has been suggested that gay couples seeking asylum submit sexually explicit home videos as evidence. This?
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This Topic has been reviewed and the off topic comments removed.
Keep this On Topic Please !
Personal Insults Will have accounts suspended.
Respect the opinions of others as we all share our own views on all subjects.
Please use the Notify Button If you feel you have been personally offended on the forums.
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Last edited by Mark; 28th Jan 2014 9:23am.
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The worlds governed by idiots, nobody owns the world, far from it, people should be free to choose wherever they want to go.
No they shouldn't, why should we taxpayers have to pay for all these people who are, according to you, free to go wherever they want? Why should not members of a democracy be able to decide who lives in our country? Why should members not be able to decide who can be educated here, get health treatment here and benefit from the largesse of our taxpayers here? Surely that is what is represented by the word 'democracy'.
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Nemesis, don't you see that your point about a Democracy and our nationals being able to choose whether people subjected to torture from foreign lands are allowed into the U.K or not, would represent the UKIP ideals. In contrast, those who are not like minded and not in favour of UKIP are able to make their own democratic vote. So where does democracy begin and end ?
My last post in response to yours was more about your position on apathy towards these tragic situations, I did not pass opinion as to whether or not this particular person in question should be allowed to stay or not. It is not for us to make the judgement on another persons possible execution or torture, no matter where they come from.
We, as part of the human race have to show humility. Isn't that what our country is based on? We should let the powers that be in our democratic country, make the judgement and final decision on such issues?
Uganda have been putting people in front of firing squads for years , ' English Whites' particularly at one time. Note I said English, and not British and it is shame on the world democracies, for not intervening in a greater strength. That is no doubt why we (Europe) are faced with these problems today.
I don't know what the answer is, but neither does anyone else and so we should all be a little more tamed in our responses.
If you think about it, you too probably have mixed blood going back to one or more event of this country during our privileged reign and sovereignty over other nations, plus the Vikings, Gauls and Celts.
Last edited by granny; 28th Jan 2014 4:09pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Nemesis, don't you see that your point about a Democracy and our nationals being able to choose whether people subjected to torture from foreign lands are allowed into the U.K or not, would represent the UKIP ideals. In contrast, those who are not like minded and not in favour of UKIP are able to make their own democratic vote. So where does democracy begin and end ?
My last post in response to yours was more about your position on apathy towards these tragic situations, I did not pass opinion as to whether or not this particular person in question should be allowed to stay or not. It is not for us to make the judgement on another persons possible execution or torture, no matter where they come from.
We, as part of the human race have to show humility. Isn't that what our country is based on? We should let the powers that be in our democratic country, make the judgement and final decision on such issues?
Uganda have been putting people in front of firing squads for years , ' English Whites' particularly at one time. Note I said English, and not British and it is shame on the world democracies, for not intervening in a greater strength. That is no doubt why we (Europe) are faced with these problems today.
I don't know what the answer is, but neither does anyone else and so we should all be a little more tamed in our responses.
If you think about it, you too probably have mixed blood going back to one or more event of this country during our privileged reign and sovereignty over other nations, plus the Vikings, Gauls and Celts.
You have sadly missed the whole point about democracy. It is not for us to be democratic about what has happened, or in this case, what may or may not have happened, in another country. Democracy in the UK is about decision making here in the UK. Democracy here is not involved in any way in the politics of other countries, that is for them and them alone and certainly not any of our business. The main reason of course is that we know very little about what is going on around the world, Tony Blair thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because he was told that was the case. Here we are told it is the case that lesbians are being tortured, but are they really, are we sure? Perhaps that is the excuse being given to help the cause of the lesbians who really want a 'free loader' existence in our country. We just don't know enough and never will so democracy at home is what is called for. Charity begins at home remember. The colonial days are long gone and bringing that old chestnut up on a continual basis does snot help your cause. If the lesbians are fearful of staying in their own country then let them go elsewhere like France or Germany, maybe even Iraq, Afghanistan or Iran rather than here. Oh! sorry I forgot, France and Germany would send them here or back home and the other countries would refuse them entry, we should not be the dustbin of the world taking in all those who are not permitted elsewhere. In conclusion you are correct in thinking "It is not for us to make the judgement on another persons possible execution or torture, no matter where they come from." I am only suggesting that democracy applies to making decisions about the lesbians' entry into the UK - decisions about their treatment in their own countries are none of our business. Interfering in the dealings of other countries has cost us many lives lost in fighting wars that have nothing to do with the 'defence of the realm' like Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan. So as our country is now full, the signs need to go up 'No more space for immigrants' we don't have the water, electricity, gas, houses, prison space, school places, or money to maintain their lifestyles.
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I don't know which Colonial days you are referring to that I bring up on a regular basis?
Uganda 1970's ,English Lecturer at University, put in front of firing squad twice, family had to do a midnight runner with 3 children, wife, and grandmother, leaving him behind . Left all belongings and animals , fled by rail in the middle of the night.
They had already had to escape from Kenya when the trouble and uprising with the Mau Mau.
So, not too far away in the distant dark past and they were lucky because they managed to get back to the UK.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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I don't know which Colonial days you are referring to that I bring up on a regular basis?
Uganda 1970's ,English Lecturer at University, put in front of firing squad twice, family had to do a midnight runner with 3 children, wife, and grandmother, leaving him behind . Left all belongings and animals , fled by rail in the middle of the night.
They had already had to escape from Kenya when the trouble and uprising with the Mau Mau.
So, not too far away in the distant dark past and they were lucky because they managed to get back to the UK.
It is and always was risky traveling to such countries, so I am not surprised. I was in the MN and traveled too, but we always stayed away from danger areas. As a lecturer, I might be forgiven for thinking he had more sense than to expose his family to such conditions.
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You mention democracy. The British people have always shown support of people in need, the country is kept going by volunteers.I have no doubt if we paraded this particular lady in Birkenhead, London Newcastle or anywhere else and said do you want this woman sent to back to a country that she has fled from in terror the majority of people would say ofcourse not.
Immigration policies are fine and important but this is a human rights issue.
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Whatever we say or do, I suspect it will all boil down to a decision made by our democratically elected (so I've heard)government.
Possibly an appeal to European Human Rights may help her
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I don't know which Colonial days you are referring to that I bring up on a regular basis?
Uganda 1970's ,English Lecturer at University, put in front of firing squad twice, family had to do a midnight runner with 3 children, wife, and grandmother, leaving him behind . Left all belongings and animals , fled by rail in the middle of the night.
They had already had to escape from Kenya when the trouble and uprising with the Mau Mau.
So, not too far away in the distant dark past and they were lucky because they managed to get back to the UK.
It is and always was risky traveling to such countries, so I am not surprised. I was in the MN and traveled too, but we always stayed away from danger areas. As a lecturer, I might be forgiven for thinking he had more sense than to expose his family to such conditions. He worked and lived out there, sent by the British Government, not travelling around trying to avoid danger spots. It is where his children grew up. His son eventually went back again to Africa with his Canadian born wife, she was raped by black and she fled back to Canada, never to return. He stayed. Point being, that British involvement in these places took the rewards,took them so far and then abandoned the masses , still with their tribal values and life styles. Barbaric regimes that have come to power over the last decades, grew up with their tribal rituals, and we should have stayed out. That's too late and if we reap the rewards of our actions today, it is not the fault of any lesbian or any other individual who is subjected to possible torture or death for reasons beyond their control. We have tried to Westernise these countries and it hasn't really worked.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Smartchild
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No such thing in human rights/ free world. Just a word, everything that we have is controlled by someone or somthink.
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We have tried to Westernise these countries and it hasn't really worked. I rest my case, we should just keep out of other countries and their ways as it never ever helps anybody. This can be clearly be seen from the case you quote. Let them get on with things and we take care of our own in the UK.
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We have tried to Westernise these countries and it hasn't really worked. I rest my case, we should just keep out of other countries and their ways as it never ever helps anybody. This can be clearly be seen from the case you quote. Let them get on with things and we take care of our own in the UK. Thats what I said at the start , its terrible that OUR police force have to deal with helping foreigners escape arranged marriages. If thats whst that country does then leave them to it and dont interfer .
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We have tried to Westernise these countries and it hasn't really worked. I rest my case, we should just keep out of other countries and their ways as it never ever helps anybody. This can be clearly be seen from the case you quote. Let them get on with things and we take care of our own in the UK. Thats what I said at the start , its terrible that OUR police force have to deal with helping foreigners escape arranged marriages. If thats whst that country does then leave them to it and dont interfer . In context Nemesis the quote was: " Barbaric regimes that have come to power over the last decades, grew up with their tribal rituals, and we should have stayed out. That's too late and if we reap the rewards of our actions today, it is not the fault of any lesbian or any other individual who is subjected to possible torture or death for reasons beyond their control. We have tried to Westernise these countries and it hasn't really worked" So not one tiny little bit of compassion from either of you then. That's ok, it's not my conscience which suffers, but your lack of even the slightest touch of empathy in this particular case , actually sickens me. Just imagine your own child (adult or not) being tortured in a place where you couldn't protect them. You would be torn to shreds knowing what they might be suffering and you think that it is alright to condemn others to the same. Even if this is not as true as it might seem on the surface, again we are not here to make that judgement. You are judging only on what you perceive to be the truth. ..and nobody is talking about the flood gates being opened, just in case you have lost track. Strange how we never hear of anyone complaining about Israelis , Russians, Ukranians , Latvians coming here, to name a few, only when the skin is coloured do we here people jumping up and down. Go to Manchester Airport, watch the planes coming in and then wave your banners there.
Last edited by granny; 28th Jan 2014 10:46pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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It's not my conscience which suffers either, I don't have one. Send her back to where she came from, send them all back where they came from, no matter what colour their skin, or sexual preference. They don't belong here and should find another country that would have them all instead of the UK. Oh, no one wants them in another country... I wonder why??... I`ll write a book on THAT subject later.
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. Go to Manchester Airport, watch the planes coming in and then wave your banners there. You should know I do not do banner waving. I leave that to those who go on futile protest marches and those who are opposed to change who wish to remain in the 19th century, the dinosaurs in fact. Rather than go there I say again, leave them alone in other countries, and stop economic migrants and health service visitors from coming here. This country is full, not enough gas, water, electricity or homes and insufficient land on which to build them, apart from the flood plains. Schools are full and education stifled by foreigners who do nor speak the language and thereby take up valuable teacher time, councils are in debt because of the costs of interpreters, the police take 10 times longer to deal with foreigners who do not understand what they are being told - need I go on?
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Oh dear me, there's nothing left to say other than you are happy to benefit from all the resources that come from Africa.
Every time you sit at a wooden table think about where it may have come from in it's original form, every time you see a gold ring, diamond, platinum, tin the list is endless and then think about the people who have possibly suffered whilst mining it for you.
If you should ever have to spend time in a hospital or care home, please tell the medical staff and care staff they are not welcome here and refuse them treating you or giving assistance.
You won't do that will you , because you have no backbone?
You only have a key board fixed to repeat, but no longer for my benefit because I don't and won't understand why you are so bitter to everyone in this world apart from yourself.
There must be a tiny glimmer of hope, but so far I can't see it.
Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 2014 11:40am.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Oh dear me, there's nothing left to say other than you are happy to benefit from all the resources that come from Africa.
Every time you sit at a wooden table think about where it may have come from in it's original form, every time you see a gold ring, diamond, platinum, tin the list is endless and then think about the people who have possibly suffered whilst mining it for you.
If you should ever have to spend time in a hospital or care home, please tell the medical staff and care staff they are not welcome here and refuse them treating you or giving assistance.
You won't do that will you , because you have no backbone?
You only have a key board fixed to repeat, but no longer for my benefit because I don't and won't understand why you are so bitter to everyone in this world apart from yourself.
There must be a tiny glimmer of hope, but so far I can't see it.
How absolutely ridiculous, by purchasing from the third world countries, I am helping their economies and also the poor to earn some money. Not everybody abroad is slave labour you know. When I see my garden furniture, the last thing I think about is who made it and where it came from and the same goes for jewellery. When in hospital I always thank the nurses wherever they come from (What made you think otherwise?) and I never refuse the treatment that my taxes and NI contributions have paid for. I mean to say, why should I? Crazy question. I am not bitter about anybody in this world and it is only your vivid and distorted imagination that would make you think otherwise. I just believe as I said before, this country is full up, no gas, electricity, water , houses, school places etc so we can only take in those who we need to fill otherwise vacant jobs, we just cannot take anybody lesbians or otherwise THERE IS SIMPLY NO ROOM and internal affairs in Somalia are none of our business, as you said, leave them alone. I assure you I have loads of backbone, more than you in fact, It would seem that you believe everything you are told by people you don't know. If you are told they are lesbians, you believe them, if they say they will be killed if they go back home, you believe them. They are only saying that because people like you have no backbone and roll over whenever faced with a difficult decision. That is the truth of the matter. Have some common sense and think about the problems politicians have created by meddling abroad, it needs to stop now and those in need in our own country should get the money that you would spend on foreigners overseas. Blimey Moses! we need all the money we can get hold of to help our own under-privileged before we even think of foreigners - or you one yourself? Is that the reason for your bitterness?
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I hear your cage rattling !
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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I hear your cage rattling ! 
Carpe diem.
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Oh dear me, there's nothing left to say other than you are happy to benefit from all the resources that come from Africa.
Every time you sit at a wooden table think about where it may have come from in it's original form, every time you see a gold ring, diamond, platinum, tin the list is endless and then think about the people who have possibly suffered whilst mining it for you.
If you should ever have to spend time in a hospital or care home, please tell the medical staff and care staff they are not welcome here and refuse them treating you or giving assistance.
You won't do that will you , because you have no backbone?
You only have a key board fixed to repeat, but no longer for my benefit because I don't and won't understand why you are so bitter to everyone in this world apart from yourself.
There must be a tiny glimmer of hope, but so far I can't see it.
How absolutely ridiculous, by purchasing from the third world countries, I am helping their economies and also the poor to earn some money. Not everybody abroad is slave labour you know. When I see my garden furniture, the last thing I think about is who made it and where it came from and the same goes for jewellery. When in hospital I always thank the nurses wherever they come from (What made you think otherwise?) and I never refuse the treatment that my taxes and NI contributions have paid for. I mean to say, why should I? Crazy question. I am not bitter about anybody in this world and it is only your vivid and distorted imagination that would make you think otherwise. I just believe as I said before, this country is full up, no gas, electricity, water , houses, school places etc so we can only take in those who we need to fill otherwise vacant jobs, we just cannot take anybody lesbians or otherwise THERE IS SIMPLY NO ROOM and internal affairs in Somalia are none of our business, as you said, leave them alone. I assure you I have loads of backbone, more than you in fact, It would seem that you believe everything you are told by people you don't know. If you are told they are lesbians, you believe them, if they say they will be killed if they go back home, you believe them. They are only saying that because people like you have no backbone and roll over whenever faced with a difficult decision. That is the truth of the matter. Have some common sense and think about the problems politicians have created by meddling abroad, it needs to stop now and those in need in our own country should get the money that you would spend on foreigners overseas. Blimey Moses! we need all the money we can get hold of to help our own under-privileged before we even think of foreigners - or you one yourself? Is that the reason for your bitterness? As I wrote earlier nem, we shouldn't have meddled in Europe in 1939-1945 nothing to do with us, we should have let the Nazis murder everybody they disliked, I know a lot of top ranking Tories wanted to jump into bed with them, but that's par for the course, money and power washes away any shred humanity, look after number one.
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I am afraid I cannot entirely agree with that.
Last edited by nem12esis; 29th Jan 2014 5:51pm.
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Nemesis.... have you calmed down a bit now? No bad intentions meant towards you, it is that we all have different opinions and will never all agree about the same things. Sometimes our emotions or beliefs are very locked in, but that's ok because we have to learn to be tolerant of each other. We love you really, because you keep us and our adrenalin flowing, and I believe you mean well even if it doesn't always show the way it might. 
Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 2014 9:39pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Nemesis.... have you calmed down a bit now? No bad intentions meant towards you, it is that we all have different opinions and will never all agree about the same things. Sometimes our emotions or beliefs are very locked in, but that's ok because we have to learn to be tolerant of each other. We love you really, because you keep us and our adrenalin flowing, and I believe you mean well even if it doesn't always show the way it might. Explaining the real facts to you never winds me up so I do not need to calm down. I just hope you realise that life is too short to stop enjoying it by flooding the country with 'do-gooders' and spending our taxes on the wrong things. I didn't start a business and make money to support lesbians or foreigners from any other country. I paid my taxes here to help our unfortunate (not those on the benefit career trail) of this country as well as to help the country's finances. Members of other countries are not on my wish list. Take care now, I always appreciate reading your chronic and expensive views.
Last edited by nem12esis; 30th Jan 2014 10:12am.
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Explaining the real facts to you never winds me up so I do not need to calm down. I just hope you realise that life is too short to stop enjoying it by flooding the country with 'do-gooders' and spending our taxes on the wrong things. I didn't start a business and make money to support lesbians or foreigners from any other country. I paid my taxes here to help our unfortunate (not those on the benefit career trail) of this country as well as to help the country's finances. Members of other countries are not on my wish list.
Take care now, I always appreciate reading your chronic and
expensive views.[/quote]
So we have the same opinion then, thank god others think the same as me.
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Take care now, I always appreciate reading your chronic and
expensive views.
So we have the same opinion then, thank god others think the same as me. [/quote] Many do Sue and the opinion polls bear that out. Never be afraid to stand up for your beliefs. A lot of left wingers here may attempt to shout you down but Hey Ho! who cares about the tiny minority who disagree with you.
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Explaining the real facts to you never winds me up so I do not need to calm down. I just hope you realise that life is too short to stop enjoying it by flooding the country with 'do-gooders' and spending our taxes on the wrong things. I didn't start a business and make money to support lesbians or foreigners from any other country. I paid my taxes here to help our unfortunate (not those on the benefit career trail) of this country as well as to help the country's finances. Members of other countries are not on my wish list.
Take care now, I always appreciate reading your chronic and
expensive views.
So we have the same opinion then, thank god others think the same as me. [/quote] Would that be the same god that showed compassion, forgiveness and understanding of others SUExx?
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Would that be the same god that showed compassion, forgiveness and understanding of others SUExx?
I know Sue will answer for herself, but remember this is also the God who allowed his son to be crucified at Calvary and who has allowed people to go around raping and killing innocent people. He also permitted wars to occur where millions were killed, surely he can also concur with restrictions on entry when a country is full up of immigrants and has no room for any more?
Last edited by nem12esis; 31st Jan 2014 4:37pm.
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Would that be the same god that showed compassion, forgiveness and understanding of others SUExx?
I know Sue will answer for herself, but remember this is also the God who allowed his son to be crucified at Calvary and who has allowed people to go around raping and killing innocent people. He also permitted wars to occur where millions were killed, surely he can also concur with restrictions on entry when a country is full up of immigrants and has no room for any more? It wasn't me that thanked God nem it was sue, she must believe in him to thank him, she doesn't follow his teachings but believes in his blessing, mmm, by the way I am an agnostic.
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Would that be the same god that showed compassion, forgiveness and understanding of others SUExx?
I know Sue will answer for herself, but remember this is also the God who allowed his son to be crucified at Calvary and who has allowed people to go around raping and killing innocent people. He also permitted wars to occur where millions were killed, surely he can also concur with restrictions on entry when a country is full up of immigrants and has no room for any more? It wasn't me that thanked God nem it was sue, she must believe in him to thank him, she doesn't follow his teachings but believes in his blessing, mmm, by the way I am an agnostic. I know I was just answering your question about 'Is this the same god..........................'
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Smartchild
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I think there are several points about this case which concern me.
Firstly, why did she enter the UK illegally and not seek asylum in 2006, until 2012? What was she doing for those six years? Was she working and contributing to society and paying taxes which I presume would be hard without a NI number.
Secondly, if all lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Uganda are in danger of torture etc and we accept them all as the UK being a place of safety, surely the bigots in Uganda will have won and there will be no one in that country to fight to change things for the better.
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Exactly, this country cant go on campaigning on behalf of other countries when our own society needs sorting. Its also cant go on excepting loads more people in to be a drain on our own resources.
Resources that come out of tax paying people. Thats why the state pension age is gradually going up, they are hoping we will be dead at 70 and not bother having to pay you a pension. One way of clawing some money of the people of this country to hand out to the influx of people here.
Apart from draining the NHS.
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anymoreonthisthreadtogetridoftheotherone?
Putin khuilo
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