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You are right on all accounts, time to just get on with it.


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Originally Posted by casper
[quote=granny]

'

Casper, do you think that is right that the backstop has to stand and as the same Withdrawal Agreement has been voted against 3 times is there any point in going over old ground, yet again ? . If so, you are voting against the Irish, if not, what should the next move be. Someone has got to make a decision and the facts are as they are, there are no negotiations going to be accepted by the EU.

There are a lot of things I don't think are right granny, things quite frankly that should of been taken into account and given a lot of thought to before we even went ahead, Brexit was unplanned ill thought out, because no body in their wildest dreams believed we would vote to leave, a momentous decision taken on the turn of a coin, would you in all honesty make a life changing decision without careful consideration and all due diligence, yet that is what occurred, we not only leapt into it, we catapulted ourselves into it blindly, those that engineered it couldn't believe their luck, a few porkies here and there to help things on there way

Southern Ireland chose independence and remain in the EU, all other countries within the EU have borders, so you can see the problem, PIRA didnt mind hiding behind the border at one time, one foot in one foot out, horses for courses there I'am afraid.



To be honest ,Casper, long before the referendum was even spoken about, I had for long enough wished we could get out of the clutches of Europe. Over the years it was easy to see where things were heading, and I didn't like what was happening.
I'm not really sure why it is being banded around that we will have so many problems. All the ones raised so far seem to be purely hypothetical with regards to shortages and hold ups at ports. We have airplanes and we have other countries to get produce from. We already get fruit from Israel, rice from India, coffee and tea from somewhere else, banana for the west indies, etc. etc. etc. just that they won't have to go via the EU to make them more expensive. Although I think you might just be getting a bit bothered about the porridge from Scotland. Now that could be a problem !
Southern Ireland said NO in their first referendum in 2008, by quite a large majority, but were forced into another one in 2009. As were Denmark and another one. (can't remember) There have been loads of referendums in total in different countries over different things. We were never given one when it was promised , twice !
Now we could be forced into another, and I believe that is what the EU are hoping for.

@DD. Everything you say, I agree with.

£billions of trade agreements pending with Australia and New Zealand. South America also. We've got Panamax at Liverpool for the South American trade . Japan , Israel, African countries , all these places are lining up. We might not get flowers from Amsterdam, but we will be able to get them from Africa, where they have the market gardens already. Why not help them instead of keeping everything confined to the EU countries ?

It looks like an election could be in October. Well, if that's the case I suspect that the Brexit Party and Tory's will be uniting to see Brexit through and there definitely won't be another referendum then.

Just my views. Everyone is different.


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Here's one to read. Do we know where they are keeping the Catalonian prisoners and is this EU democracy ?


On 1st October 2017 2.3 million Catalans took part in a referendum on independence, inspired by those in Scotland (2014) and Quebec (1980, 1995). Unfortunately, unlike the United Kingdom and Canada, the Spanish government decided to respond with repression:

https://www.omnium.cat/en/signforca...Pw2XMkNZOOCHQA7M9QYPIQD1ry-CT19M2Qmy6bqc


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What next ? What a mess !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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Everybody’s so fed up of it all , those lot at Westminster all acting like idiots!!!!The EU mob must be rubbing their hands with glee and laughing their socks off!!!!! When is it all going to end?? I despair!!

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I must say I have a great deal of respect for those Tories that defied Boris Johnson, and that coming from me is a rare accolade for a party I usually despise, the aforementioned gentleman has been found out telling porkies yet again and fully deserves the title of serial liar, the mask slipped last night no smart quips, just spittle and finger pointing.

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Complicated vote, either hand power back to the EU to make whatever preposterous demands they want or agree to the possibility of a no deal Brexit (which they already agreed to previously).

You might notice which way spineless Theresa May voted.

It seems an awful long time ago since we had a half-decent leader and yet they underrate Corbyn who has defied all odds on numerous occasions.

Theresa May
David Cameron
Gordon Brown
Tony Blair
John Major
Margaret Thatcher
James Callahan

Which of those measure up to Corbyn in looking after the majority of people in the country?


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The whole thing is a joke now. All manipulating for their own preferred outcome. Agree with Cools, they are all acting like idiots.

What did make me cringe ( after watching most of the debates this afternoon ) was the way in which the Tory MP's who have had the whip taken away turned on their own party . Hammond was clearly a bit choked when he gave his speech , maybe it was anger coming out .

Some turned really quite nasty in their own polite way and of those I have seen interviewed , they were all pretty gutted I think, and all that came to mind, was ' ha ! now YOU know what it's like to lose your job ' . No sympathy for them, and although Casper, you think they did the right thing, they did not and have never respected the vote of the people. Once Justine Greening resigned from Education Secretary when May tried to move her to another dept. she's always had an axe to grind, quite a number I believe were Remainers anyway.

Theresa May should be reflecting big time on this mess she has brought us to and it would seem there are rumblings tonight that Kier Starmer could be positioning himself as leader of the Labour Party. He'd probably have to eat the ' chlorinated chicken' first, but as we have seen tonight where there's a will, there's a way !

Does anyone want another election ?

Last edited by granny; 4th Sep 2019 11:40pm.

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One of the hateful things , of many , is rolling out people like grey major or shark eyes brown to tell us what we are " doin wrong "
They ruined the country , robbed pensions, sold all the gold , bankrupted us etc.
Whats happening now just re affirm david noakes ,yet again, " end the eu dictatorship " talk 10 years ago!!!
He said theyll stop at nothing to cause citizens problems during trying to leave.
The funny thing is if matt lucas in a blond wig loses completely , what are whining remainers gona do .....??? More BS and delay.....what a mess.

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You'd think they would realise by now that there are only two options, remain in the EU (cancel article 50) or leave the EU fully. Any pre-leaving deal from the EU is going to punish us.

I am very disappointed with the lack of support from other EU countries that want to leave, they should be influencing Brexit to make it easier to leave but of course they are worried about repercussions from mainstream EU (Germany). I love the way Germany is bigging-up France at the moment, surely the French aren't that gullible and they realise that this is only a temporary thing, its only a crown of thorns they have been given not the bishops mitre.

Germany and mainstream EU are a bit quiet at the moment while they work out how to restructure the EU to bring Germany back to full dominance again.


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Originally Posted by granny

The whole thing is a joke now. All manipulating for their own preferred outcome. Agree with Cools, they are all acting like idiots.

What did make me cringe ( after watching most of the debates this afternoon ) was the way in which the Tory MP's who have had the whip taken away turned on their own party . Hammond was clearly a bit choked when he gave his speech , maybe it was anger coming out .

Some turned really quite nasty in their own polite way and of those I have seen interviewed , they were all pretty gutted I think, and all that came to mind, was ' ha ! now YOU know what it's like to lose your job ' . No sympathy for them, and although Casper, you think they did the right thing, they did not and have never respected the vote of the people. Once Justine Greening resigned from Education Secretary when May tried to move her to another dept. she's always had an axe to grind, quite a number I believe were Remainers anyway.

Theresa May should be reflecting big time on this mess she has brought us to and it would seem there are rumblings tonight that Kier Starmer could be positioning himself as leader of the Labour Party. He'd probably have to eat the ' chlorinated chicken' first, but as we have seen tonight where there's a will, there's a way !

Does anyone want another election ?


Well I will repeat my question granny, did it specify anywhere that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave with or without a deal, were we given a choice? many people are happy to leave with a deal but that choice is being denied them by the Boris coup d 'etat, how anyone could have any faith in a serial liar a bigot and racist is beyond me, a phoney he didn't mind accepting the support from one of the bum boys he so despises, untrustworthy in his private life, not fit in parliament, supported by his religious nutter buddy lounging across the benches, have we really sunk so low ? the oft quoted chimps tea party hit the screens big time, spitting image to the fore, its about time the whole debacle of parliament was looked into and changes made across the board, the career politicians , the hangers on ,and the deadwood gone. somad

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This has been going on for way too long, and its to wear you all down, We won't be leaving the EU. The main reason was to get Cameroon back in to No10, and the people fell for it the rest as we shall say is history

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Why can't we leave without a deal and just arrange one after we've gone, like we plan to do with other countries?

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Originally Posted by casper
did it specify anywhere that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave with or without a deal, were we given a choice? many people are happy to leave with a deal but that choice is being denied them by the Boris coup d 'etat,


Boris and many others would be more than happy with a fair deal, the main crunch being that the EU can't continue to have legal control over us (other than through normal international law).

There is no question that after a no deal Brexit occurring the EU and the UK will negotiate deals after the event.

What we don't want is a single package, there will be far too many compromises. The main thing the EU wanting to squeeze in is the free movement of people, this implicitly gives them legal control over us. They lie when they say a trade deal is impossible without the free movement of people, they have been negotiating trade deals with many other countries without including the free movement of people.


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Originally Posted by casper

Well I will repeat my question granny, did it specify anywhere that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave with or without a deal, were we given a choice? many people are happy to leave with a deal but that choice is being denied them by the Boris coup d 'etat, how anyone could have any faith in a serial liar a bigot and racist is beyond me, a phoney he didn't mind accepting the support from one of the bum boys he so despises, untrustworthy in his private life, not fit in parliament, supported by his religious nutter buddy lounging across the benches, have we really sunk so low ? the oft quoted chimps tea party hit the screens big time, spitting image to the fore, its about time the whole debacle of parliament was looked into and changes made across the board, the career politicians , the hangers on ,and the deadwood gone. somad


I answered that Casper. Conservative Manifesto in 2017 had 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal'

Many people, so far as I can make out are far more in favour of 'no deal'


quote from The Independent. :

The Conservative Party will fight the general election on a hard-Brexit manifesto that says “no deal is better than a bad deal”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...bind-mps-to-no-deal-brexit-a7742516.html

How is it that Parliament scuppered the deal.. 3 times ? Even Boris voted for it on it's last leg !

Boris is being called a 'serial liar' I'll ask you what are the lies that he has told which affect us, the public ?

Last edited by granny; 5th Sep 2019 4:27pm.

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