Many thanks for this Derek. As I mentioned on the PM I've been told that my Great Grandfather and Grandmother William and Annie Smith had this pub between the wars. The story goes that it was taken down as part of the tunnel building programme? Looking on the modern map there looks to be a flyover there now. This map also confirms the family tale that the pub was opposite Cammell Lairds. My Grandfather Kenneth Smith lived here when he was very young and apparently he and his brother used to lean out of the window and watch the fights at the end of the night!
If anyone know of a picture showing it that would be great.
Was this bridge the Camell Lairds main gate side of Waterloo Place or Woodside side. Are the 2 buildings near the black car the pubs on the corner of Waterloo place the Shakespeare and Prince Alfred?
The photographer is looking towards Woodside. The Town Hall clock tower can be seen in the background above the roof of the Bedford lorry. The traffic lights would appear to be at the junction of Waterloo Place, so the pubs on each corner would be the Shakespear and Prince Alfred. They are described, with photo's, in another thread in the Pubs section. Cammel Lairds Main Gate is behind the photographer. The photo was taken before the bridge was widened. The best way to describe the location of that junction now is that it was where the traffic from the eastbound Borough Rd flyover joins the southbound Chester St traffic.
Attached is a section of the 1964 OS map, before the tunnel approach works, and a photo from 1969, looking south down Chester St showing the roadworks and the rebuilt railway bridge. I think the pubs would have been just over to the right, behing the beer tanker. (I bit ironic, don't you think?). The bus had missed the diversion sign, and was re-joining the traffic by crossing the central reservation.
Thanks for the further information Derek and Norton.
In terms of finding a Duchess picture I hope to get over to the Wirral before Christmas to look in the records to see if any photos exist. I think it may have been on the junction of Chester Street and Getley Street (if I'm reading that correctly??) That seems to tie in to the maps. Any search tips welcome!
Sorry to say, but your guess at the pub on the corner of Getley St is wrong. That would be the Manor Arms at 180-182 Chester St, directly opposite the end of Abbey Street. On some maps it may say Mersey Place, but that was rebuilt and became Gatley St between 1899 and 1911 according to the old maps.
The Dutchess of Edinburgh seems to have been about six doors down from the Manor Arms, on the same side of Chester St. If you look on the 1964 map I posted, it would be about where the letter R appears in the 'ChesteR Street' label. N.B. The Manor Arms mentioned above is not to be confused with the Manor Arms /Manor Hotel at 9 Union St, which is less than a mile away.
There are some ariel photo's of the area which were posted recently, under a different topic, from which you might be able to locate the Dutchess. If I find them first, I'll append them.
Good luck with your search, and if you do find a photo and more info, please share it with us.
The building that housed the Duchess of Edinburgh was exactly where Norton places it. But, certainly from the late 1950s onwards, I am sure it had ceased to be a pub. The building was demolished in 1966-1967 along with the rest of the area to make way for the tunnel flyovers.
Thanks again for all your help on this one. Would it be right to presume these pubs would have had lots of custom from the workers at Lairds and been fairly rough and ready? If they are listed as PH. could they still have B&B type rooms?
The pubs certainly had lots of custom from Laird's men, because thousands of them walked up and down Chester Street / New Chester Road to and from work every day.
It was a fairly 'rough and ready' area, with some very old properties along Chester Street between Waterloo Place and the tunnel.
Pubs like the Prince Alfred, The Manor Arms and - further up - the Birkenhead Arms, looked large enough to have provided B and B, but I don't know if they did (I was too young to go in!) I remember at least one of the houses on Chester Street near the Prince Alfred provided overnight lodgings for lorry drivers.
Just to say we finally found a picture which seems to be the pub. Fitting with everything you told me on here, maps etc. It was in a private archive. Luckily shared on Ancestry! "The best things come to he who waits."
It looks I'd post it on here but can't see how. It seems as though the building was part of an older set of buildings more like ones that now stand at 90/92 Chester St. Lighter coloured (stone?)_It was originally called the Liverpool Arms and changed name about 1860. It then ran as the Duchess until closing after my ggf passed away in 1940.
It is a square fronted pub on two floors. Many of the standard Walkers features (large lantern, wooden entrance surround etc.) Strange to think of my grandad looking out of those windows when he was a child. best Simon
click on "switch to full reply screen" then go to"upload manager" which allows you to find the pic on your pc by the "browse" button- then click on "add file" this is supposing the pic is less than 2mbs in size or if you pm me I'll give you my email address so you can send it to me and I'll post it on wiki
ps there are a lot of pubs I need pics for and hopefully you can point me to where you got your pic
Hi Derek, thanks for the advice! this picture (which I can't see presumably as I'm not a subscriber?) was uploaded on Ancestry.com and I got it from there. It is owned by a descendent of the licensee. We looked in the usual places that you'll know - Liverpool Library Walker archive, Wirral Archives, we are still to visit archive at Birkenhead Reference library, also books by O'Connor and Ian Boumphrey which gave context if not exact information.
