Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,424
Posts1,033,711
Members14,746
Most Online21,357
Oct 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
8 members (2 invisible), 11,775 guests, and 487 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,803
_Ste_ 16,347
Newest Members
Mowens, ElfOfDoom, MWebster, Siousxie, RubyRow
14,746 Registered Users
New General Forums
New Wirral History
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by RobThomas - 18th Nov 2024 7:45am
Croxteth and Spring Streets
by Croxtethroberts - 16th Nov 2024 9:54am
64 Westboure Rd
by mikeeb - 7th Mar 2021 10:51am
A Postcard from New Brighton
by Norton - 18th Apr 2012 3:21pm
the empress club
by thefreethinker - 16th Sep 2010 9:45pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 33
Topic Replies
the empress club
by MWebster - 10th Dec 2024 8:20am
64 Westboure Rd
by diggingdeeper - 9th Dec 2024 2:32am
Old Car Photo
by diggingdeeper - 6th Dec 2024 2:14pm
60's mechanic wanted
by robin47 - 3rd Dec 2024 9:32pm
A Postcard from New Brighton
by gregory66 - 3rd Dec 2024 1:16pm
Silver bars
by diggingdeeper - 29th Nov 2024 9:42pm
The Zieglers in Oxton
by JemimaOxton - 24th Nov 2024 7:34pm
Barnston Dale
by Excoriator - 22nd Nov 2024 6:25pm
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by bert1 - 20th Nov 2024 6:32pm
December
M T W T F S S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
casper 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#998660 20th Jan 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,213
Forum Veteran
OP Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,213
I don't know if it the only nuclear deterrent we have or if we have any land based one.
I think with the advances made with satellite surveillance drones,radar and computer hacking, that by the time Trident is built it would be too vulnerable to a first strike against it.
click

Fact is, the Navy has been seeking—pretty much under the surface—a way to do underwater what the Air Force has been doing in the sky: prowl stealthily for long periods of time, and gather the kind of data that could turn the tide in war.

The Navy’s goal is to send an underwater drone, which it calls a “glider,” on a roller-coaster-like path for up to five years. A fleet of them could swarm an enemy coastline, helping the Navy hunt down minefields and target enemy submarines.

Last edited by derekdwc; 20th Jan 2016 1:15pm.
Google Ads
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 3
Its a very tricky question to answer. Whenever it comes up I'm always reminded how timeless "Yes Minister" was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
There is no scenario where "pressing the button" gains us any advantage whatsoever. We know that and any potential threat knows that as well so the "deterrent" is nothing more than status symbol.

Or ..... if we really want we could choose to potentially wipe out the human race and many other creatures as well.

Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
do we need a nuclear missile system/deterrent? i think so

does that have to be trident? not necessarily, but what better options are there?

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


I thought the submarines carried the ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, and launched from the submarines,not from land. So they could be launched anywhere in the world as we don't know where these submarines get to. Which would mean there would not have to be a threat to UK for them to be used. On a greater scale it could see off North Korea !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
You are correct @granny, the only nuclear weapons we have are Trident which are launched from submarines.

We own the submarines, we own the nuclear warheads but we do not own any launch missiles (Trident II D-5's).

We do not own the monitoring systems that indicate a nuclear attack against us.

Mentioning North Korea .... going from information that is starting to come to light, in the next few months there could be a complete re-think on North Korea. The USA may have done a little bit of deception to the rest of the world - its going to be interesting to see what stunt the USA will do to avoid a complete expose.

Think along the same lines as Cuba but worse - in reality during at least the last 25 years what threat was Cuba to the rest of the world or even the USA but how was Cuba portrayed? The USA has had Guantanamo Bay continuously since 1898 which shows how little threat Cuba has been.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Don't really know much about Cuba. Used to listen to the news and wonder if my father was about to have a heart attack every time it came on. The reporting was pretty serious but I took little notice, being more interested in other things.
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died did any changes really take place. Khrushchev was at the helm and I suppose it would be the same if US tried to place nuclear defence in Ukraine. Just assuming ,don't really know.

With regard to not owning any launch missiles, or the monitoring system, surely that is a means of security ? Meaning that when Mr Corbyn has a temper tantrum he cant say 'stuff the lot of you and goodbye' by pressing the button. laugh


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 4
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 4
I don't think a submarine is a very good way to deliver nuclear weapons. We should learn from the IRA's delivery system - Ford cortinas - which were used as a form of cruise missiles. Despite the Army's best efforts, these proved impossible to prevent, and devastated the centre of Belfast.

In the case of a nuclear equipped enemy, one can never be sure that they have not smuggled a nuke into your capital city well before the outbreak of hostilities. Modern ones are extremely compact and not particularly radioactive until detonated.

Not only is this approach likely to be more effective, it is also a lot cheaper.

derekdwc #998746 21st Jan 2016 12:01pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
I'm best off saying nothing.


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
granny #998750 21st Jan 2016 1:27pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by OxtonHill
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull


You are correct.Sorry, I thought he'd gone to greener pastures.
Taken last August on his birthday, but it looks as if it's time he was.

[Linked Image]



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #998758 21st Jan 2016 2:58pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 4
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Moonstar
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.


No, indeed it wouldn't. It would certainly burst the property bubble if one went off in London!

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,803
Likes: 3
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #998773 21st Jan 2016 6:10pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,438
Likes: 25
Originally Posted by granny
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Five scenarios come out of that:-

Russia presses the button first - UK gets obliterated, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

Russia presses the button first and other countries join in with nuclear missiles flying everywhere - UK gets obliterated as does much of the rest of the world, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

UK press the button first - Russia gets 2% wiped out, UK gets obliterated within 24 hours.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons at a cost of less than 1% of Russia.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons, rest of the world joins in and ends up with nuclear wipe-out of much of the world.

You can try and find a positive scenario but Trident doesn't help us one little bit.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
60's mechanic wanted
by robin47 - 3rd Dec 2024 9:32pm
Silver bars
by Peter0787 - 28th Nov 2024 8:56pm
Barnston Dale
by CupcakeKaren - 20th Nov 2024 12:35pm
Another SIgn of the Times
by diggingdeeper - 19th Nov 2024 1:35pm
The Zieglers in Oxton
by JemimaOxton - 18th Nov 2024 3:07pm
For Sale & Free
Member Spotlight
_Ste_
_Ste_
Skid Row
Posts: 16,347
Joined: August 2005
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Silver bars
by Peter0787 - 28th Nov 2024 8:56pm
Barnston Dale
by CupcakeKaren - 20th Nov 2024 12:35pm
The Zieglers in Oxton
by JemimaOxton - 18th Nov 2024 3:07pm
Mersey Barrage
by Excoriator - 20th Sep 2024 9:43am
News : New Topics
Another SIgn of the Times
by diggingdeeper - 19th Nov 2024 1:35pm
Wallasey woman arrested following knifing incident
by _jase_ - 8th Sep 2010 3:02pm
New Enthusiast Forums
60's mechanic wanted
by robin47 - 3rd Dec 2024 9:32pm
Smoking and Cancer
by diggingdeeper - 5th Nov 2024 3:12am
Old Car Photo
by petzl - 5th Mar 2015 9:30pm
Popular Topics(Views)
5,373,286 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,252,831 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5