Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,361
Posts1,033,315
Members14,578
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
5 members (2 invisible), 9,713 guests, and 373 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,788
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
PaulRobson, meolswanderer, Firminafirm, YesterYearGenea, Luke121
14,578 Registered Users
New General Forums
Hi to everyone
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 1:18pm
Last person to post wins...
by GaryB - 9th Oct 2007 9:15pm
New Wirral History
Moreton History
by IanFife - 1st Apr 2024 1:03pm
Campbell Terrace, behind old St. Andrew's Church on Conway
by KimTheilmann1 - 31st Mar 2024 3:34pm
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 12:56pm
Through the Window: GWR Paddington to Birkenhead
by yoller - 16th Aug 2017 7:09pm
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by Rhoobarb - 25th May 2010 6:55pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 5
casper 4
Topic Replies
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by capitulinagarage - 17th Apr 2024 12:52pm
recommendation, please
by muzzy2 - 16th Apr 2024 7:39pm
Car paint jobs
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 9:54pm
Hi to everyone
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 1:18pm
Traffic Wardens
by diggingdeeper - 14th Apr 2024 2:42pm
West Kirby flood defences
by Excoriator - 13th Apr 2024 3:35pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by diggingdeeper - 10th Apr 2024 11:00pm
Any Decent Restaurant Open On a Mon Evening.
by Abakumss - 8th Apr 2024 9:04am
Paddle Steamer Waverley
by casper - 6th Apr 2024 9:09am
April
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
casper 1
cools 1
Kylix 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
casper 4
Mark 4
granny 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#998660 20th Jan 2016 2:11pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
Forum Veteran
OP Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,210
I don't know if it the only nuclear deterrent we have or if we have any land based one.
I think with the advances made with satellite surveillance drones,radar and computer hacking, that by the time Trident is built it would be too vulnerable to a first strike against it.
click

Fact is, the Navy has been seeking—pretty much under the surface—a way to do underwater what the Air Force has been doing in the sky: prowl stealthily for long periods of time, and gather the kind of data that could turn the tide in war.

The Navy’s goal is to send an underwater drone, which it calls a “glider,” on a roller-coaster-like path for up to five years. A fleet of them could swarm an enemy coastline, helping the Navy hunt down minefields and target enemy submarines.

Last edited by derekdwc; 20th Jan 2016 2:15pm.
Google Ads
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 3
Forum Master
Online Content
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 3
Its a very tricky question to answer. Whenever it comes up I'm always reminded how timeless "Yes Minister" was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
There is no scenario where "pressing the button" gains us any advantage whatsoever. We know that and any potential threat knows that as well so the "deterrent" is nothing more than status symbol.

Or ..... if we really want we could choose to potentially wipe out the human race and many other creatures as well.

Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,925
do we need a nuclear missile system/deterrent? i think so

does that have to be trident? not necessarily, but what better options are there?

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Its all pretty mute anyway, we do not own any means to launch a nuclear warhead.

The UK doesn't even own a nuclear threat/attack detection system.


I thought the submarines carried the ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, and launched from the submarines,not from land. So they could be launched anywhere in the world as we don't know where these submarines get to. Which would mean there would not have to be a threat to UK for them to be used. On a greater scale it could see off North Korea !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
You are correct @granny, the only nuclear weapons we have are Trident which are launched from submarines.

We own the submarines, we own the nuclear warheads but we do not own any launch missiles (Trident II D-5's).

We do not own the monitoring systems that indicate a nuclear attack against us.

Mentioning North Korea .... going from information that is starting to come to light, in the next few months there could be a complete re-think on North Korea. The USA may have done a little bit of deception to the rest of the world - its going to be interesting to see what stunt the USA will do to avoid a complete expose.

Think along the same lines as Cuba but worse - in reality during at least the last 25 years what threat was Cuba to the rest of the world or even the USA but how was Cuba portrayed? The USA has had Guantanamo Bay continuously since 1898 which shows how little threat Cuba has been.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Don't really know much about Cuba. Used to listen to the news and wonder if my father was about to have a heart attack every time it came on. The reporting was pretty serious but I took little notice, being more interested in other things.
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died did any changes really take place. Khrushchev was at the helm and I suppose it would be the same if US tried to place nuclear defence in Ukraine. Just assuming ,don't really know.

With regard to not owning any launch missiles, or the monitoring system, surely that is a means of security ? Meaning that when Mr Corbyn has a temper tantrum he cant say 'stuff the lot of you and goodbye' by pressing the button. laugh


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
derekdwc #998741 21st Jan 2016 10:51am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,848
Likes: 3
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,848
Likes: 3
I don't think a submarine is a very good way to deliver nuclear weapons. We should learn from the IRA's delivery system - Ford cortinas - which were used as a form of cruise missiles. Despite the Army's best efforts, these proved impossible to prevent, and devastated the centre of Belfast.

In the case of a nuclear equipped enemy, one can never be sure that they have not smuggled a nuke into your capital city well before the outbreak of hostilities. Modern ones are extremely compact and not particularly radioactive until detonated.

Not only is this approach likely to be more effective, it is also a lot cheaper.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,444
I'm best off saying nothing.


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
granny #998750 21st Jan 2016 2:27pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by OxtonHill
Originally Posted by granny
Fidel Castro was the fly in the ointment and only when he died


He is not dead, last time I looked skull


You are correct.Sorry, I thought he'd gone to greener pastures.
Taken last August on his birthday, but it looks as if it's time he was.

[Linked Image]



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #998758 21st Jan 2016 3:58pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,848
Likes: 3
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,848
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Moonstar
I guess that if people start actually loosing off nuclear weapons at any time it wouldn't be a good place to live in the aftermath.


No, indeed it wouldn't. It would certainly burst the property bubble if one went off in London!

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #998773 21st Jan 2016 7:10pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,350
Likes: 20
Originally Posted by granny
If Russia declared war against the UK tomorrow, do you think we should still continue the moves to scrap Trident ?


Five scenarios come out of that:-

Russia presses the button first - UK gets obliterated, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

Russia presses the button first and other countries join in with nuclear missiles flying everywhere - UK gets obliterated as does much of the rest of the world, what would be the point of UK Trident's launching 12 hours later (or more) to wipe out a grand total of 2% of Russia.

UK press the button first - Russia gets 2% wiped out, UK gets obliterated within 24 hours.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons at a cost of less than 1% of Russia.

No nukes involved, Russia wipes out UK with conventional weapons, rest of the world joins in and ends up with nuclear wipe-out of much of the world.

You can try and find a positive scenario but Trident doesn't help us one little bit.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
recommendation, please
by muzzy2 - 16th Apr 2024 7:39pm
Car paint jobs
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 9:54pm
Hi to everyone
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 1:18pm
Traffic Wardens
by Excoriator - 11th Apr 2024 4:11pm
West Kirby flood defences
by Excoriator - 10th Apr 2024 10:45pm
For Sale & Free
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 8:36pm
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 3:37pm
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Wirral
Posts: 14,350
Joined: July 2008
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
recommendation, please
by muzzy2 - 16th Apr 2024 7:39pm
Traffic Wardens
by Excoriator - 11th Apr 2024 4:11pm
Paddle Steamer Waverley
by diggingdeeper - 5th Apr 2024 7:57am
Wirral waters
by casper - 2nd Apr 2024 11:32am
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 11:52am
News : New Topics
West Kirby flood defences
by Excoriator - 10th Apr 2024 10:45pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by Excoriator - 10th Sep 2019 9:50am
New Enthusiast Forums
Car paint jobs
by PaulRobson - 15th Apr 2024 9:54pm
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 9:04am
Any Decent Restaurant Open On a Mon Evening.
by Uffda - 21st Oct 2012 7:16pm
What song are you listening to?
by - 24th Jun 2007 10:06am
Popular Topics(Views)
5,071,197 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,017,255 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5