WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,192
Posts1,032,416
Members14,198
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
20 members (Anne8, 4 invisible), 1,084 guests, and 315 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,268
granny 17,740
_Ste_ 16,338
Newest Members
Anne8, PaulW51, Testerbester, Aisha94, sueoakley29
14,198 Registered Users
New General Forums
Picture you are not allowed to see
by Excoriator - 4th Aug 2022 9:28am
Open air swimming pool
by cools - 13th Jul 2022 9:13am
The beast . . .
by GaryFromWirral - 28th Feb 2022 1:48pm
Mavic Mini Drone - help needed please
by gerrymoore - 10th Dec 2021 3:28pm
New Wirral History
The old Farmers Arms Moreton
by LindaTay - 30th Jul 2022 4:48pm
Voss Motors
by johncon - 30th Jul 2022 1:21pm
Tracing history of Bob simister motorcycles.
by Philoman - 10th Jun 2022 2:20pm
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by derekdwc - 18th Aug 2011 11:13pm
Mansions of Wallasey : Around Grove Road
by PaulWirral - 31st Jul 2009 10:37pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 8
_Ste_ 7
Leonny 7
Topic Replies
Sky Lantern
by steamfan - 11th Aug 2022 11:07pm
PS3 Controller Wanted Please.
by BultacoAstro - 11th Aug 2022 12:17pm
Mansions of Wallasey : Around Grove Road
by Mark - 10th Aug 2022 8:28pm
Volkswagen T4 Autosleeper Trooper LE VW Campervan
by polo_phil - 9th Aug 2022 11:25am
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 12:12pm
Mavic Mini Drone - help needed please
by Leonny - 5th Aug 2022 4:09am
Kitchen Appliances
by gerry1 - 2nd Aug 2022 1:10pm
Voss Motors
by billy_anorak59 - 2nd Aug 2022 8:22am
Clarke 180E Arc Welder - gwo
by gerrymoore - 1st Aug 2022 7:25am
August
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Mark 1
Top Likes Received
Mark 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#1063596 29th Dec 2018 8:21am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
At last the media are giving some credence to the reality of a no-deal Brexit being a much better option than probably any other deal the EU will agree to. Hopefully Project Fear III will come to a grinding halt.

There is very little to fear from a no-deal Brexit other than the amount of disinformation that will be spread around and the financial markets doing a short hiccup (which they WANT to do because that is how they make money out of nothing).

The EU will continue to trade with us, they aren't going to leave their crops lying on their fields, they are not going to close the VW plants down etc.

We will not have to pay the EU £39bn, however I can see us paying some some sort of sweetener mainly out of diplomatic good will.

We will be able to trade with the rest of the world without the EU imposed levies etc.

Shock horror but we will still lead the world with human rights just like we did before we joined the EU.

Both us and the EU have already got most of the required contingencies in place, at our borders the EU aisles will have to have some changes and more staff employed.

The UK will leave the Irish border open.

Ireland will also leave the Irish border open.

The EU will agree to a technological/administrative soft border at Ireland after wetting their pants for a while (this may be paid for with our sweetener mentioned above.

Both the EU and UK will have a visa-free visitor passport arrangement as most countries do, probably 6 months. There will also be the usual visa arrangements, both already have these in place for many other countries.

Both the EU and the UK will agree to have existing residents stay within restrictions that have already been negotiated.

We will re-instate our fishing rights in our own waters, if Spain, France etc want access to the they can pay for those right, the EU has made it very clear that is normal in other markets.

The price of our food will come down as will the price of other goods including cars.

We will close our borders to immigrants that don't meet the asylum criteria, we will have a points based system for immigrants workers we wish to be in the country.

What's not to love?


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Google Ads
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
And then you woke up DD.

casper #1063598 29th Dec 2018 10:42am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by casper
And then you woke up DD.


Nah, I'm still awake, can you see any holes in the argument?


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Forum Addict
Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Quote
What's not to love?


The sheer shameless tribalism, nationalism and selfish xenophobia which pervades your post?

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Nationalism is a lot better than the total mess that globalisation has caused?

Humans are naturally tribalistic.

I fail to see anything xenophobic?


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Forum Addict
Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Quote
Nationalism is a lot better than the total mess that globalisation has caused?

Humans are naturally tribalistic.

I fail to see anything xenophobic?


Hahahahaha!

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
And then you woke up DD.


Nah, I'm still awake, can you see any holes in the argument?


As ever DD,you put forward a logical senario of what could or may happen, however unlikely, it reads like it was written by the good fairy of brexit, the reality I'am afraid will read a lot differently.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Quote
Nationalism is a lot better than the total mess that globalisation has caused?

Humans are naturally tribalistic.

I fail to see anything xenophobic?


Hahahahaha!


As usual, because I have put forward an argument that you cannot find a response to, in both responses in this thread you have resort to trolling me instead of sticking to the subject. I will take that as a sign that you cannot find fault with what i put forward.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Forum Addict
Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Quote
Nationalism is a lot better than the total mess that globalisation has caused?

Humans are naturally tribalistic.

I fail to see anything xenophobic?


Hahahahaha!


As usual, because I have put forward an argument that you cannot find a response to, in both responses in this thread you have resort to trolling me instead of sticking to the subject. I will take that as a sign that you cannot find fault with what i put forward.



I can think of no better response to the three nonsensical statements you have spouted apart from laughing at them. Come on, DD. You must see the funny side of "I fail to see anything xenophobic" after a long and ill-informed rant about teh benefits of pulling up the drawbridge to protect little England.

"The price of our food will come down as will the price of other goods including cars."

Oh yeah? How the hell is that going to happen when the pound goes through the floor? It is falling as we speak, and I think when we leave you'll see out trade deficit plunging from the deep hole its in now to an abyss! Imports will cost a HUGE amount more.

You say (as if its a fact!)

Quote
The UK will leave the Irish border open.

Ireland will also leave the Irish border open.


The point is that this cannot happen unless exactly the same tariffs exist on both sides. After a hard brexit the EU will be compelled by WTO rules to impose the same tariffs on us as they do on all other countries outside the EU. (I bet you didn't even know this is a WTO rule!) . Once these tariffs are in place a border and customs posts follows like day follows night. If you want a simple analogy think of locks on a canal. If the water is on the same level both sides, they can be removed. If they are different, and you remove the locks all the bloody water runs from the high side to the low side.

I'm not wasting my time going through your post point by point. They range from irrelevant, to just plain wrong.

I can't see a hard brexit happening. MPs can be greedy, venal. selfish and craven, but they are not generally stupid which is why opposition to a hard brexit is something all sides are united in. It will not happen. You should be rejoicing not moaning about it! They will be doing their job and protecting you from your own folly.

Last edited by Excoriator; 29th Dec 2018 8:59pm.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
WTO sets a ceiling tariff ie a maximum tariff, it does not set a minimum tariff (otherwise trade agreements would all be in breach of WTO rules). The EU can agree a free-trade, reduced-tariff or zero tariff agreement with us without any intervention from the WTO.

As the balance of trade between the EU and the UK is grossly in the EU's favour, if they hit us with tariffs and we reciprocate, the EU loses out. In the car industry alone the EU has a £30bn/yr surplus on the balance of trade with us. Further more we can use the money gained from the tariffs without intervention from the EU.

The UK has stated it will not close the Irish border, Ireland has stated it will not close the Irish border. Just because there are disparate tariffs does not force a physical border. I continued to say that the EU would come to an arrangement on the border but you failed to include that in your quote, it is highly unlikely that it would be a physical border. We already have non-physical borders around the EU, in fact I can travel to and from a non-EU country without a passport or visa.

There is already disparate taxation between Northern and Southern Ireland, that's why everybody crosses the open border and buys their washing machines in Northern Ireland, it is nothing new, its been happening for years.

The only reason the pound will fall significantly is because the finance markets want it to, and the pound will recover soon afterwards because the finance markets will want it to. They make huge profits out of movement of prices, they don't like stability. Trade is not going to stop over night, it would be far too punishing to the EU as well as the UK, we already trade quite happily with many other countries without any trade agreements as indeed the rest of the EU does and much of the rest of the world.

There is no unknown abyss, this is normal day-to-day trading that we already do with many other countries.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that only 25% of VW's manufacturing plants are in the EU.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 29th Dec 2018 11:23pm. Reason: vw

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Forum Addict
Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
The reason the pound will fall is that our trade balance will get a hell of a lot worse due to the departure of our very profitable services sector and the manufacturing that was set up by global companies to supply the whole of Europe. Nissan, for example, makes all the electric 'Leaf' vehicles for Europe here.

They will leave because it is the only way they can remain competitive, and the result will be that we will import MUCH more than we export.. We do already by around £80 billion a year we can expect this to double or treble at least - it may go as far as ten times this., (Makes the £39 billion we've agreed to pay the EU look rather trivial by comparison)

The result of a large increase in this will be that we will be seen as living on tick, and our currency will no longer be seen as credible. It will go down in value. This is due to the country buying more than we sell and no the whim of speculators.

The fact that only 25% of VW's manufacturing plants are in the UK is interesting as it demonstrates how easy it would be to move production to a new plant in - say - Romania where labour is cheap. The same is true of other manufacturers like Nissan who will also see the benefits of a brand new more efficient factory in a low-cost country. Particularly as the EU promotes this under their objective one policy of getting poorer countries supplied with decent infrastructure and employment.

"Just because there are disparate tariffs does not force a physical border."

Pure nonsense. There would be nothing whatever to stop you or me buying a van and smuggling bottles of wine or whisky or anything else across it! How are you going to stop this? Employ a minister to shout "Technology" at the stream of white vans?

A no deal brexit would be catastrophic. Fortunately it now seems pretty unlikely despite the government's feeble sabre rattling! Liam Fox let the cat out of the bag yesterday by pointing out that when May's referendum is rejected by parliament. brexit becomes a 50-50 business. I think its a lot less likely than that. Either the government will revoke article 50 or a referendum will be arranged and that will result in a revokation.

Last edited by Excoriator; 31st Dec 2018 11:11am.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Excoriator
"Just because there are disparate tariffs does not force a physical border."

Pure nonsense. There would be nothing whatever to stop you or me buying a van and smuggling bottles of wine or whisky or anything else across it!


The EU hasn't got unified VAT rates, Luxembourg at 17%, Hungary at 27% and both in the Schengen area.

The UK and Eire aren't in the Schengen area, we don't have open borders with Schengen countries.

As I stated before, I can travel to and from a non-EU country without a passport or visa, there is nothing new about potentially leaky borders.

Think about this instead of throwing comments like "Pure nonsense" which keep backfiring on you.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
Forum Addict
Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,810
If its OK for me to smuggle wine across, why is it not OK for a large commercial operator to buy tariff-free solar panels - say - by the thousand in the low tariff side of the border and smuggle them across?

If you have vastly different tariffs (the whole point of brexit) you will need to enforce them with customs.

Both the UK government and the EU sees the need for a border if the tariffs are different both sides of the NI border, so I suggest you visit Brussels and No 10 and explain why they have it wrong. Or indeed to learn from both that you are wrong.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 4
Its hardly a secret that Brussels has many things wrong.

I see the European Army build up is well on its way to going ahead, this of course includes nuclear weapons which effectively gives Germany nuclear weapons again even though they are banned from doing so.

Its all a build up to a super power which will be the United States of Germany .... or possibly more correctly the German Republic Union. We ignored this before WW2, it is happening again. There is only France standing in the way and I'm not sure they even realise that.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,362
I see Prince Harry is to be off to Norway to join our Royal Marines in an exercise to thwart any possible Russian invasion of Europe,for what little or no difference they would make, as we are back to being a contemptible little army again, looks like a case of sabre rattling or more likely a distraction from the current fiasco of brexit, we should be more concerned with the Irish who seem to be shaking the stick.

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Sky Lantern
by steamfan - 11th Aug 2022 11:07pm
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 9:11am
The old Farmers Arms Moreton
by LindaTay - 30th Jul 2022 4:48pm
Voss Motors
by johncon - 30th Jul 2022 1:21pm
Parking fine
by Wickerman - 23rd Jul 2022 8:42pm
For Sale & Free
Volkswagen T4 Autosleeper Trooper LE VW Campervan
by polo_phil - 9th Aug 2022 11:25am
Kitchen Appliances
by gerry1 - 2nd Aug 2022 1:10pm
Ipad Mini 5 256gb (slate grey)
by Catsick - 28th Jul 2022 1:15pm
Myford ML7 lathe with accessories
by spider - 28th Jun 2022 3:36pm
PS3 Controller Wanted Please.
by BultacoAstro - 26th Jun 2022 10:06am
Member Spotlight
sunnyside
sunnyside
wirral
Posts: 45,164
Joined: April 2010
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Exchange Rates
by BultacoAstro - 6th Aug 2022 9:11am
Parking fine
by Wickerman - 23rd Jul 2022 8:42pm
Eastham history
by MarkConnor1978 - 22nd Jul 2022 1:21pm
Portable BBQ's on beaches
by granny - 9th Jul 2022 8:53am
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 8:59pm
News : New Topics
Sky Lantern
by steamfan - 11th Aug 2022 11:07pm
Budgie found
by kenmo52 - 2nd Jul 2022 8:25pm
The State of Wirral these days 2022?
by keef666 - 23rd Jun 2022 10:05am
Ignoring the law
by Excoriator - 4th Jul 2018 9:55am
New Enthusiast Forums
System Meltdown
by GaryFromWirral - 8th Jul 2022 2:50pm
Super Bowl Chilli
by granny - 5th Feb 2019 3:13pm
Rockferry Baptist church
by georgie - 19th Nov 2010 11:11pm
What song are you listening to?
by - 24th Jun 2007 10:06am
Popular Topics(Views)
4,961,752 WIKI WALK CHAT
3,906,595 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5