WikiWirral 15yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,010,626
Topics74,654
Members12,791
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs28
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
56 registered members (alan128, 10 invisible), 1,136 guests, and336 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
30 J.F.K
New General Forums
Book batteries.
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 8:54am
J.F.K
by cools. 12th Nov 2018 12:44pm
Happy Birthday Detecting Wirral and Roobarb
by snowhite. 12th Nov 2018 10:58am
Remembrance Hamilton Square
by fish5133. 11th Nov 2018 10:19pm
New Wirral History
Rock Ferry boat disaster 1834?
by yoller. 9th Nov 2018 10:10am
Birkenhead riots
by yoller. 6th Nov 2018 9:13am
Mersey ferries, 1840s
by yoller. 28th Oct 2018 2:01pm
757 Rocks Wallasey Road Liscard
by derekdwc. 16th Oct 2018 8:04pm
756 Scrap Yard Wallasey Road Liscard
by derekdwc. 16th Oct 2018 8:00pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
No more bridge, never be the same
Over Exposed Crash Site
Topic Replies
Stop a second referndum.
by keef666. 15th Nov 2018 5:01am
What song are you listening to?
by Dilly. 14th Nov 2018 9:53pm
The Hooton Hotel
by granny. 14th Nov 2018 12:39pm
WWI's Secret Shame:
by casper. 14th Nov 2018 10:17am
Any urban explorers help!!
by Berliner. 13th Nov 2018 7:47pm
Lest we forget
by casper. 13th Nov 2018 4:30pm
320d won't pass emission test
by Habdab. 13th Nov 2018 11:58am
Fracking
by Gibbo. 13th Nov 2018 10:31am
Dynasties
by granny. 13th Nov 2018 9:37am
November
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Wirral Quilters Exhibition
by Greenwood. 12th Nov 2018 12:10pm
British Ironworks Centre Oswestry
by missmahjong. 28th Oct 2018 11:23am
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Ignoring the law #1056486
4th Jul 2018 8:55am
4th Jul 2018 8:55am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
If during a trial, such as a murder trial, it is found that the police have broken the law in submitting their evidence, then the trial is abandoned. This doesn't mean that there will not be a retrial, of course. it simply means that the result of that trial cannot be taken as correct because the jury has been lied to.

However, in the case of the Brexit leave campaign, it will today be announced that the people running it have broken electoral law in at least four ways (See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561 ) In other words the jury - you and I - have been lied to and the result of the referendum, therefore, cannot be taken as being meaningful.

However, there is no question of a retrial, or re-referendum! Instead, the Leave campaign will pay a trifling fine and the fact that the UK is committed to a very uncertain and likely catastrophic future is allowed to stand!

Perhaps brexiteers will abandon their frequent cries of "The British people have decided" in favour of "The British people have been fooled!" which is closer to the truth although this is unlikely. By definition, they are NOT honest people.

Google Ads
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056487
4th Jul 2018 9:10am
4th Jul 2018 9:10am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,009
Oxton
Gibbo Online content
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,009
Oxton
Unite 'open to possibility' of new Brexit referendum
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/03/unite-union-new-brexit-referendum-labour-corbyn

Hope so. If they did I'd predict a huge shift to "remain".

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056507
4th Jul 2018 8:51pm
4th Jul 2018 8:51pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
I think it would.

But having got the answer they want by fooling them, the brexiteers have abandoned all pretence of obeying the "Will of the people".

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056508
4th Jul 2018 10:15pm
4th Jul 2018 10:15pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
However, in the case of the Brexit leave campaign, it will today be announced that the people running it have broken electoral law in at least four ways (See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561 ) In other words the jury - you and I - have been lied to and the result of the referendum, therefore, cannot be taken as being meaningful.


How can a non-binding referendum come under electoral law? It was nothing more than a poll.

I think everyone was surprised the Tories honoured it but now we are starting to see what their corrupted version of it is.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056510
4th Jul 2018 10:20pm
4th Jul 2018 10:20pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,792
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,792
Heswallish
Have heard the Remoaners are prepared to abide by the result of the Sweden England Game

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: fish5133] #1056513
4th Jul 2018 11:56pm
4th Jul 2018 11:56pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,580
wirral
So that's the line is it DD? Brexit would have been fine if the tories hadn't cocked it up!

In other words it's not the fault of those who voted to leave.

I've no love for the tories, but in this case, I have some sympathy for them. Not much, but some. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. You cannot make a stupid decision into a wise one.

And if the referendum was 'nothing more than a poll' why on earth are we taking any notice of it? More recent polls are all for remain, by the way, but they don't count because ... Well, I'll leave you to fill in an implausible excuse.

Originally Posted by fish5133
Have heard the Remoaners are prepared to abide by the result of the Sweden England Game


In my case I won't abide by or reject it. I will ignore it completely. I couldn't care less which side wins.

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: fish5133] #1056515
5th Jul 2018 8:29am
5th Jul 2018 8:29am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
Originally Posted by fish5133
Have heard the Remoaners are prepared to abide by the result of the Sweden England Game
,

Not like you to get into the name calling game fish, I am a remoaner if that is a correct term, I voted to remain for many reasons, not the least, leave being led by the far right of the Tory party whose only aim is to turn this country into a low wage deregulated economy.

We were suckered into the so called referendum, purely because of a power struggle within the Tory Party, those having lit the fuse now standing back, they didn't put the country first they opted to promote themselves, and now we are left with a deeply divided government struggling to make some sort of order out of the mess, the people sold down the river by glib talk and money.

I understand a lot of people voted to leave, I don't pin labels on them that is a choice they made based on what they believed, although it is my belief a lot were misled on immigration and false promises made of a better Britain.

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056521
5th Jul 2018 10:42am
5th Jul 2018 10:42am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
Other than easier holiday travel I can't understand what the average person see's in the advantage of being in the EU.

Turning our backs on the rest of the world and having very little control over our own trade is not a good thing.

The biggest growth of trade in the future most certainly doesn't lie within the EU, it lies with the rest of the world.

The basic principle of the EU is for the richer countries to subsidise the poorer countries with an objective to bring the wealth of the poorer countries up to the median level. This has not happened, the number of net contributors in the EU has dropped, the number of subsidised countries has increased - the EU has achieved the opposite of this basic principle. The main subsidisers are becoming subsidisers for life and those subsidies are increasing.

Using those subsidies to build metal clowns and the like I find very hard to justify, refurbishment of properties, improvements in road surfaces and the like would seem like money much better spent.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056522
5th Jul 2018 10:46am
5th Jul 2018 10:46am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
To put it even simpler .....

Would you sign an exclusive contract with one shop even though it wasn't the cheapest?

Would you join the Masons?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: diggingdeeper] #1056525
5th Jul 2018 12:56pm
5th Jul 2018 12:56pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
[quote=diggingdeeper]To put it even simpler .....

Would you sign an exclusive contract with one shop even though it wasn't the cheapest?

It depends on whether there were other benefits to be had that could offset the higher prices, again we were asked to make a game changing decision with little or no information on the consequences in fact with less information than buying a used car, but all we had to do is look at the salesman, glib with no moral conscience.

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056527
5th Jul 2018 3:50pm
5th Jul 2018 3:50pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
As we have had virtually no control over what the EU does and doesn't do further aggravated by little control over what our own Government agreed to with the EU, the comparison with signing up with a shop is not dissimilar.

What benefits are there being in the EU that are not hugely offset by the disadvantages, noting that deals like CETA did NOT include the free movement of people (so much for EU "red lines") also noting there are already open trade borders to the EU like the Isle of Man and Channel Islands as well as others that do not have free movement of people.

I think most people that voted leave assumed that there would be a natural default position of a full and hard Brexit and negotiations for trade and other deals would be taken from that position with the whole world, if the EU wanted to play hard-ball we would wait until they softened their stance.

Instead we started negotiations in the weakest manner possible which did nothing for our negotiations with the EU and let other countries try to take advantage while they saw us as weak.

The EU cannot stop us negotiating trade deals with other countries before we leave, they can only stop us making (ie signing) deals that could come into force before we left.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: diggingdeeper] #1056535
6th Jul 2018 8:19am
6th Jul 2018 8:19am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,637
wallasey
I think you are giving some that voted to leave more credit than they deserve, who voted purely on the immigration issue, and might I add will be very disappointed with a watered down approach being considered, and yes in their haste to give the people their choice ( read promote their own agenda) they put us at a distinct disadvantage.

As to trade deals with other countries we are also at a disadvantage, some will see us desperate to get a trade deal and will use it as an advantage to gain favorable terms, "oh what a tangled web they have weaved"

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056540
6th Jul 2018 10:24am
6th Jul 2018 10:24am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
I agree that immigration was possibly a factor, however I would think that it wasn't immigration itself that upset people but the fact that the EU controlled the immigration and even promoted it against our country's wishes.

I see most of the concerns about the EU from the UK perspective can be narrowed down to control, ie sovereignty.

Germany has gone further past the tipping point of becoming a Muslim country than we have and perhaps had surrendered to the idea, perhaps we think that we can prevent that happening in the UK although the stats at the moment show that we will be unlikely to succeed.

Note that yet again, Germany has much more influence than the rest of the EU put together, in this case on policies of immigration. How can this be unless it is the United States of Germany? Just go through a list of the EU countries noting who would be for and who would be against mass immigration, Germany would be well out-voted! Only since Brexit has Germany been forced to climb down a few steps.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056827
12th Jul 2018 6:10pm
12th Jul 2018 6:10pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 302
svenlock68
S
svenlock68 Offline
Old Hand
svenlock68  Offline
Old Hand
S
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 302
svenlock68
One of the many reasons i voted out & will always....apart from the corruption of the uks monarchy handing power to the EU over years with eager help of bilderberger mps & pms....was the story of a guy who took his childs hit & run not insured killer to the highest court yet it got thrown out by EU law under killers " right to family life " cause hed knocked up a uk woman. He did 5 mins in prison.
He cried outside court " i cant do anymore "
A disgrace. Totally.
As the great david noakes said 8 years ago " who do they work for? Not us...we pass eu laws in eu courts to eu rules etc etc "
The accountant for the eu got sacked / pension taken cause she highlighted 95 % of eu spending wasnt traceable . Basically fraudulent.
But 2009 lisbon treaty doesnt allow you to say anything against the eu.

Re: Ignoring the law [Re: Excoriator] #1056845
12th Jul 2018 10:15pm
12th Jul 2018 10:15pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,094
Birkenhead
The UK Monarchy hasn't handed anything over to the EU, just the politicians, usually knowingly against the will of the people.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
The Hooton Hotel
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 4:55pm
WWI's Secret Shame:
by granny. 13th Nov 2018 9:35am
320d won't pass emission test
by DavidB. 13th Nov 2018 1:59am
Wirral Quilters Exhibition
by Greenwood. 12th Nov 2018 12:10pm
Dynasties
by cools. 12th Nov 2018 11:38am
For Sale & Free
Pro Fitness Exercise Bike
by rhoobarb2002. 10th Nov 2018 2:52pm
PC Peripherals
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:54pm
Ipad Mini 4 128gb
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:47pm
Raleigh Evo 7 Speed Folding Bicycle
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:19pm
Gainward Nvidia GTX 770 - £30
by rhoobarb2002. 9th Nov 2018 3:05pm
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Birkenhead
Posts: 12,094
Joined: July 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
joel9, Gibbo2191, Quensh, marcjday, Lesjones10
12791 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
The Hooton Hotel
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 4:55pm
Wirral Quilters Exhibition
by Greenwood. 12th Nov 2018 12:10pm
Pension or Lump Sum
by fish5133. 9th Nov 2018 11:24pm
Stop a second referndum.
by granny. 1st Nov 2018 10:45pm
Birkenhead VE /VJ celebrations
by Nesta. 1st Nov 2018 7:09pm
News : New Topics
Taxi Drivers and Drugs
by diggingdeeper. 6th Nov 2018 4:25pm
Birkenhead tip on fire
by assassin. 6th Nov 2018 12:11am
Keep car doors locked
by cools. 3rd Nov 2018 3:23pm
Mischief night
by cools. 30th Oct 2018 10:18pm
New Enthusiast Forums
WWI's Secret Shame:
by granny. 13th Nov 2018 9:35am
320d won't pass emission test
by DavidB. 13th Nov 2018 1:59am
Dynasties
by cools. 12th Nov 2018 11:38am
Waterfront
by cools. 10th Nov 2018 10:50am
Any urban explorers help!!
by nirvanaflower. 7th Nov 2018 6:58pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 7:38am
Sunset Thu 4:14pm
Local Time Thu 7:10am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1