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working tax benefits are a blessing for those who receive them but they do subsidise bad employers who if they can't afford to pay a decent wage maybe shouldn't be in business.

The minimum wage was a good thing when it was first introduced but all too soon became the general wage.

@granny I'm sure in the 1990's even in Suffolk there were navvies and agricultural workers on £2 an hour like there was round all other parts of the country. Don't forget that minimum wage was brought in at £3.60.

If you want to see how cheapskate many employers are with wages, look at the average age of the staff, if a disproportionate number of them are under 21 years old then that says everything, they want to pay less than the adult minimum wage.

21 and over £6.50
18 - 20 £5.13
Under 18 £3.79

So next time you see a business with a load of 17 years olds working there, just remember that the employer thinks £3.79 an hour is an adequate wage and if minimum wage was abolished he would probably pay even less than that.

The modern apprenticeships make this even worse by legalising £2.73 an hour.

But if minimum wage was abolished, there might be a bit more competition to get good staff.

No, if there were agricultural workers on lower pay, ( not £2 per hour) they would at least have had a tithe cottage and when I lived in Kent, there were never any poor agricultural workers. They were in the pub every night where the coalman drank with the millionaires and the cleaners drank with their employers. Where the employers had open house for their workers at any time of day or night and where they gave parties for the whole of the village at Christmas and on Bonfire night. Everyone shared what they had and down to fruit and veg. Different way of living altogether and they also swapped wives

sounds like swingers clubs around Kent Granny.

If the employers see low wages as a preference to finding good staff then I can't see how changes in minimum wages is magically going to change their thriftiness.

I bet you lived around Whitton somewhere, not around Kirkley

If people were willing to pay a realistic price for their veg. and milk then the employers would be able to pay a better wage. Blame the supermarkets.

Blame is a four way chicken and egg - producers, suppliers, customers and legislators. All can be blamed and all can blame the others.

I thought milk was all sorted a year or two ago after the government stepped in, then suddenly it dropped down to £1 and the to 89p for four pints and then the farmers said they were back into loss. Confused me no end.

@ Snowy. It was like living in an Alice in Wonderland story. I could tell some tales, such as the time the doctor called to see mother in law who was ill. Afterwards, he went downstairs and got pissed with my father in law, over a bottle of scotch between them, before he drove home to his wife. With whom he didn't get on and they had built a brick wall in the middle of the house to divide it. They continued go out together every Sunday for lunch.
Or the neighbour who was trying to drown his wife, in the wash basin, but she kept pulling the plug out.
Or the pub that took horses in for a pint. Or the time they went on holiday and I was left on my own to look after the farm, with a stupid dog and a double barrel shotgun for protection !
Strangely, thinking back, nobody ever had a day off sick from work. Fat head or not, always up and out at the same time everyday.

Well off topic now, back to Casper, and your parents would have been so proud to have helped you on your way. Isn't that the same feeling we get now if we can help our children ? Things never came easy to that generation but they knew how to count and spend their pennies. Not so now as the cost of living fluctuates constantly, price of things remained the same for years, once upon a time. That's how these old folk on here can remember the cost of everything. 6d bag of chips, was always 6d. (2 1/2 p) for those who are not sure.

Isn't there a book there Granny, sound hilarious ....

Which old people granny?

Those who argued against the minimum wage foresaw what would happen and it did. The first ones to lose their jobs were those who were what you would now call "special needs", who were employed by good hearted people to help them. When they minimum wage had to be paid they couldn't afford it so had to let them go because they weren't fully productive. It's all been down hill since. When I joined the RAF as I was on supplementary benefit to make up my wages. It was a weird world to be in. Real poverty doesn't exist nowadays, it's a myth.

The whole tax and benefit system should be scrapped and re-thought, its a mess of thousands of patches brought in over many years and much of it is moving money round in circles especially for in-work benefits.

I don't think anyone would disagree that some sort of restriction on the minimum you can pay someone has to be in place, when there is a surplus of labour the free labour market will not work.

It will matter little soon, the conservatives are promising to bring in hire and fire which will be the final straw in destabilising the whole country. You can bet that MP's and Ministers won't be on a hire and fire type contract.

The Government's job is to bring stability to the country, doing the opposite is treason.