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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,098
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I see we have another Benefit Street programme on TV starting Monday, horrendous !! Progs like that and the Jeremy Kyles and what they depict is what have drawn people to conservative. I know they show the very worst but let's face we all know people like that and I ,m sorry but working people are getting really fed up of it and want things to change. And I know it's not everybody but there is a great many just want to be given everything on a plate..... Well stated Cools. And on another note , all these overseas poeple who are fleeing there own country by risking there own lifes by being crammed like a tin of sardines in a truck or boat are getting that impression that life is easy in the UK. So they all say LETS GO TO THE UK FREE THIS AND FREE THAT. I do hope the torries put there foot down on Immigration.
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Yeah Snowy I quite agree. It's so sad to see these people and we know we would do the same if in their situation but it's got to stop , misery all round. Too soft this country!
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I would assume a large part is going towards 'getting the deficit down', but don't really know ? Try FOI  You can't reduce a deficit with debt, its a deficit that creates debt that in turns creates a need to borrow. If there is a deficit then there must be an excess of spending, we all know the austerity measures have reduced spending considerably so that means they are spending even more than they are saving but that saved money (and more) is going to places outside of the austerity measures. So the government is spending loads of money somewhere, many people know where the money isn't going (through austerity), it doesn't take a lot to work out where the money is going. Just look at who is getting richer, its not the unemployed, its not children, its not students, its not the working class, its not the pensioners, its not the disabled and its not the middle class - yes, the money is going to the very people who need it least, the rich and hence the massive increasing separation as the rich are getting richer at a rate of ten times inflation and everybody else is getting poorer. I am fortunate in that individually is doesn't (and won't) effect me much, however, I am deeply concerned what is going to happen to the (MY!) Country, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer (working or not), the house prices are rising and heading us towards what will be yet another financial meltdown, the job market is more unstable than its been for decades. The country has been fooled into creating a super-class and the majority of the media hide what is really going.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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Yeah Snowy I quite agree. It's so sad to see these people and we know we would do the same if in their situation but it's got to stop , misery all round. Too soft this country! On immigration, I don't think the buck stops with us. Didn't Mrs Merkel (her again) tell Mr Cameron last year, that if he wasn't in agreement with her and continued the argument about controlling immigration to UK , then she might not support Britain's membership of the EU. (something like that). So , that's a good enough reason to leave. Goodness knows what any of them will come up with as a resolving situation, but the migrants keep on coming and discussions seem to have quietened down again. I would have thought that a better way would be to allocate each migrant to a different EU country. 28 countries could have an even share, no matter how wealthy or poor they are. Not to be given the ability to travel around to other EU countries. That might save some coming across as they may not see Romania or Bulgaria as a particularly good prospect. At the same time the Eurozone should pump more money into each of those economies for help with creating jobs etc. Romania and Bulgaria are living off the rest of us anyway. Let them get on the road to recovery. These migrants know the rules, they know they are behaving illegally, and they know what their plans are before starting their journey. So, with that in mind they should not all be treated as stupid ,uneducated pawns in greater game, they are not. It's their own game that they wish to gamble on. Some very sad cases but not all, by a long shot, are running away from their own country and seeking refuge elsewhere due to war ? All I see is another generation facing modern day slavery for these people or living in camps for the next so many years. It always amazes me HOW the people from such poor countries, manage to raise enough money to pay the people trafficker. They earn much, much less than we do, i.e. if they earn anything at all, and it would take us a fare while to raise the funds. Are they being helped like the Vietnamese boat people were, all those years ago, which was basically ethnic cleansing by their own government. Just an opinion which could be wrong and questionable. Even so, Mrs Merkel would seem to be pulling the noose at this moment in time.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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[quote=diggingdeeper
You can't reduce a deficit with debt, its a deficit that creates debt that in turns creates a need to borrow. If there is a deficit then there must be an excess of spending, we all know the austerity measures have reduced spending considerably so that means they are spending even more than they are saving but that saved money (and more) is going to places outside of the austerity measures.
[/quote]
So isn't the deficit the difference between the cost of something and the return from the same thing. E.g. a car cost £5000 to make, sells at a loss for £3000, = deficit of £2000. Therefore the borrowing is £2000 against the national debt ?
The 'money' is not cash in hand is it, just figures on paper, or gilts or gold bullion or securities, which are set against the debt.
We also have to take into consideration the cost to us of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Libya and any intervention elsewhere. Battle doesn't come cheap, in weaponry or lives and that must have increased the national debt by a massive amount. There's no return on that is there ?
Last edited by granny; 9th May 2015 4:40pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Yeah Snowy I quite agree. It's so sad to see these people and we know we would do the same if in their situation but it's got to stop , misery all round. Too soft this country! On immigration, I don't think the buck stops with us. Didn't Mrs Merkel (her again) tell Mr Cameron last year, that if he wasn't in agreement with her and continued the argument about controlling immigration to UK , then she might not support Britain's membership of the EU. (something like that). So , that's a good enough reason to leave. Goodness knows what any of them will come up with as a resolving situation, but the migrants keep on coming and discussions seem to have quietened down again. I would have thought that a better way would be to allocate each migrant to a different EU country. 28 countries could have an even share, no matter how wealthy or poor they are. Not to be given the ability to travel around to other EU countries. That might save some coming across as they may not see Romania or Bulgaria as a particularly good prospect. At the same time the Eurozone should pump more money into each of those economies for help with creating jobs etc. Romania and Bulgaria are living off the rest of us anyway. Let them get on the road to recovery. These migrants know the rules, they know they are behaving illegally, and they know what their plans are before starting their journey. So, with that in mind they should not all be treated as stupid ,uneducated pawns in greater game, they are not. It's their own game that they wish to gamble on. Some very sad cases but not all, by a long shot, are running away from their own country and seeking refuge elsewhere due to war ? All I see is another generation facing modern day slavery for these people or living in camps for the next so many years. It always amazes me HOW the people from such poor countries, manage to raise enough money to pay the people trafficker. They earn much, much less than we do, i.e. if they earn anything at all, and it would take us a fare while to raise the funds. Are they being helped like the Vietnamese boat people were, all those years ago, which was basically ethnic cleansing by their own government. Just an opinion which could be wrong and questionable. Even so, Mrs Merkel would seem to be pulling the noose at this moment in time. Am not just talking adults fleeing, Granny. Its children that are also being overcrowded in boats and trucks. Where they going to put all the children?There are short of foster carers as it is.Most of the childrens homes are closed. They have no control and any government will struggle to solve this problem.
Last edited by snowhite; 9th May 2015 4:38pm.
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Merkel and Sturgeon both powerful,strong and ruthless leaders and both women! Got to be admired as I said pity they wernt on our side . Yeah agree Granny something's got to give on the EU , not working for us the way it is ...
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The children are not travelling on their own in most cases, which is a responsibility of the irresponsible parents who are bringing them, and as you say no Government can cope with it all, that is where the EU has to take the decisions. Unfortunately, from our point of view,it's very much a case of ,fine they are in Italy and Greece and Malta , they aren't here, so that's ok. It's a different story when they try to come into the UK illegally. Most people's attitude changes and we don't want them. I doubt many can argue with that. So what is the answer other than shipping them all back again?
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jul 2008
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So isn't the deficit the difference between the cost of something and the return from the same thing. E.g. a car cost £5000 to make, sells at a loss for £3000, = deficit of £2000. Therefore the borrowing is £2000 against the national debt ?
We also have to take into consideration the cost to us of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Libya and any intervention elsewhere. Battle doesn't come cheap, in weaponry or lives and that must have increased the national debt by a massive amount. There's no return on that is there ? A deficit is the difference between money available against what is forecast to be spent where there is a shortfall. If you have £2000 and you plan to spend £3000 you have a deficit of £1000 and hence to do this you need to borrow £1000 or borrow less and run at a risk. Yes, we do normally get a return from wars, also wars don't cost quite as much as stated because of the normal running costs. We paid the USA to be in WW2, we got money back of Germany for WW2. I'm sure we surcharge countries for wars we get involved at either directly or indirectly. Most modern wars have been financial based, we wouldn't get involved if we didn't have a financial incentive though money or trade.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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As I have said in the past, a cruel twist of fate some bad luck like redundancy, and within weeks anyone could become one of the burdens on the state, the oft quoted idle and unemployed the scapegoats, with no employment and maybe a mortgage and all the other associated bills that come with running a home and family to pay for, don't expect any sympathy from the wonderful Tories your previous work record of maybe 20 or 30 years or more will mean nothing, you will become one of their statistics maybe forced to take a zero hrs contract that couldn't possibly support your obligations, so just think on when you stick labels on and criticise others, it could easily be you or one of your family, god forbid.
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Blimey, this is getting confusing. About 3 different topics in one.
DD.....does that mean should Russia come and invade us, we have to pay them for the privilege ? Can't imagine Iraq gave us any anything back !
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Yes Casper I am sympathetic and feel sorry for the genuine people who find themselves on benefits fir all sorts of reasons but unfortunatlely the system has been overrun by all the shirkers and cheats who abuse the benefits and proudly boast if it. I don't agree with zero hours that should be stopped.
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re:DD
As of 2013, UK Afghanistan war alone cost have been calculated as £37bn
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Yes Casper I am sympathetic and feel sorry for the genuine people who find themselves on benefits fir all sorts of reasons but unfortunatlely the system has been overrun by all the shirkers and cheats who abuse the benefits and proudly boast if it. I don't agree with zero hours that should be stopped. Ha yes, the system now caters more to the shirkers and cheats, and those in real need at times don't get any help at all. It comes to somethink when people who are disabled due to having their legs blown off in wars are not allowed disability benifits but those who lie about having an illness and pretend they can't work get disability benefits.
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As of 2013, UK Afghanistan war alone cost have been calculated as £37bn Yep, but deduct the normal running costs from that figure, deduct the budgeted war chest from that figure and real additional cost works out nowhere near that amount, it hardly caused a blip on the graphs unlike WW1 and WW2. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/include/ukgs_chart2p22.png) If Russia attacks us and we defeat them, the terms of surrender will include compensation, this can be in land or assets. If they beat us then as losers we don't get compensated. I believe the correct term is "reparations". I might have been incorrect in saying Germany compensated us after WW2, part of WW2 came about because of Germany's WW1 reparation agreement which they refused to pay after 1933. After WW2 the UK decided that financially punishing Germany again might not be productive. Other countries did receive WW2 reparations from Germany. Some WW1 reparations are still being paid.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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