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#863642 - 10th Mar 2014 3:23pm Selling house to pay for care home costs.
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13991
Loc: Wirral

Has anyone got the correct information on the legalities of what happens to a persons home , if that person should be taken into care?
I understand that the home should be sold to pay for the costs, if it hasn't had transferred ownership to another, a number of years previously.
Does that apply to another who lives in the home , e.g. son daughter ?

Example: Mrs S. has a son who has lived with her his whole life and more recently cared for her during her ailing health. Now, that Mrs S.has been put into care, does the home still have to be sold to pay the care home fees, ( as it is his home too but not on any deeds), or will that not apply ?
The last part of the question is: If the owner who is going into care, has not made a will and has now been declared unfit to officially write one.....what happens then?
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#863644 - 10th Mar 2014 3:42pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
yoller Online   content
Smartchild

Registered: 7th Dec 2008
Posts: 461
Loc: Cheshire
You're best to get legal advice about this.

But as I understand it, if a relative over 60 is living in the house, it will not have to be sold. I think if someone is living in the house and they have acted as a carer, the same thing applies - it won't have to be sold.

You can get excellent free advice from a number of sources such as Age UK or the Citizens' Advice Bureau.

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#863645 - 10th Mar 2014 3:44pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Salmon Offline
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Registered: 8th Oct 2011
Posts: 1735
Loc: Wallasey
If somebody else lives in the house they do not have to sell it to pay care home fees.Lots of info here; http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/paying-your-residential-care-or-nursing-home-fees.

Not sure about the non will bit but perhaps intestacy rules would apply. A chat with Age UK would be very useful I imagine.

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#863655 - 10th Mar 2014 4:57pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Salmon]
chriskay Offline
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Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire


Just a word of caution: it probably doesn't make any difference, but that website is for Northern Ireland.
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#863657 - 10th Mar 2014 5:12pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21029
Loc: Wirral
From what ive read up on this and if i have it right in my head the house can be sold. Its Mrs S Asset. And that's all they see the Asset's and Capital they can claw back.

If the Sons name was on the deeds or Half the house was in a Living Will (Which is stretching it) they would not force the Sale of the house. But when Mrs Passes then the Share of the House goes to probate and then i think they can claim back the fees or balance owed.

The whole system stinks its wrong wrong wrong.
And for every corner you turn they charge the earth.

An Example of the same situation on paper but still wrong.

Mr & Mrs X meet fall in love.
Buy a house, but because this is in the 60's Mr X is the bread winner and is the only name on the mortgage. Guess what happens when Mr X is taken into care all them years later ? Yes they want to sell the house to pay the care fees.

What i will say there does seem to be variation per council which should no longer be the case so what im trying to say is that until you get the professional advice take it all with a pinch of salt.

I do think that at best the son may stay there until Mrs S Dies and then will be homeless himself afterwards and nothing to show for it.

The clock starts ticking 12wks after admission to hospital or home and then the bills start. And at about 395 per week or 1,580 per 4 wks any Assets tumble.

Offset with Income.

DWP SP Pension 130 ish . . .
DWP AA 79 -->> Nothing (Attendance Allowance)
Mrs S may have Private Pension

Its no way enough to cover any fees but slows the tide.
They stop taking the money when the Assets fall below 23,250 and No less than 14,250

Example
if your Assets = + 23,250 this is Full Charge.
if your Assets = 23,000 then you pay 36 per week and not 395
if your Assets = 14,250 then you pay 1 per week and not 395
If your Assets = 14,000 then you pay nothing but to put it bluntly you have been raped well and truly.

What you have not said is if the Son has Power of Attorney ?
If not then its not going to be easy.

Drop me a pm if you need more information.
Ive pretty much been going through this for the last 2 yrs
Not the property but capital and assets gone !


Edited by Mark (10th Mar 2014 6:26pm)
Edit Reason: My god dam spelling lol
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#863658 - 10th Mar 2014 5:15pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
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Those numbers of 23,250 are up for review April so they could go up or down. . . .
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#863660 - 10th Mar 2014 5:19pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
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This is a copy and paste i got from Northumbria Council

charges for living in a care home (from 8/4/2013)


* What about my house?
If you need to live permanently in a care home, the value of your house will be treated as part of your savings, once you have been a permanent resident for more than twelve weeks. We will make allowance for the cost of selling your house, and any outstanding mortgage charges against it. (The value of your home will not be taken into account if you are a temporary resident, even if you are in the home for more than twelve weeks).
If you do not wish to sell your home now, or if you have difficulty doing so, we can delay asking for part of the charge until you decide to sell it (should you die, the fees will have to be paid then). The financial assessment and benefits officer who sees you will be able to provide further information about this option.


* What about my spouse, partner or carer?
There are special rules to protect the position of other people who are dependent on you. They affect the way we treat your income and your house.
If you have an occupational pension, 50% of this can be transferred to your spouse or partner and not included in the financial assessment. The Financial Assessment and Benefits Officer who sees you can give advice about whether your spouse would benefit from this (for some people it adversely affects benefit payments).
We will ignore the value of your house when working out charges if your partner is still living there, or a relative who is over 60 or who is incapacitated. We may do the same in other special circumstances for instance if someone lives there who gave up their own home in order to look after you.
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#863661 - 10th Mar 2014 5:23pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
Mark Online   Reading


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Registered: 9th Nov 2003
Posts: 21029
Loc: Wirral
Guidance
Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) 2011

Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) provides guidance to local authorities on how to interpret and apply the regulations.

Click me

Its up for review in April.
But this all i could find when they told me to search for CRAG 2013 so it must not have changed for those years. ?
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#863679 - 10th Mar 2014 7:06pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
chris58 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 15th Mar 2009
Posts: 308
Loc: chris58
My mum and dad made my sister and i tenants in common so when either one of them passed away their half of the property came to my sister and i so only half of the house could be taken into consideration if the surviving spouse needed care. This was only done 12 months before they both passed away. Done through a solicitor, as it needed them to make new wills. We didnt end up in the situation of either of them going into a home.

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#863711 - 10th Mar 2014 8:34pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: chris58]
Moonstar Offline

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Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1240
Loc: Wirral
I am not 100% certain about this but if the person in the care home is ill the NHS are responsible.

Someone else will know better but I do know that a lot of people are claiming back fees that have been taken due to this because the NHS denied liability.

Also, because those in power keep moving the goal posts it would be wise to seek out a specialist in this area. I think the Law Society could advise you as to such a person in your area.

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#863732 - 10th Mar 2014 10:00pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Moonstar]
justice Offline
Member

Registered: 19th Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Loc: Wallasey
Nobody has to sell their home all they have to do is pay the fees.So if family want to rent it out and pay the fees through the rent that is fine. Just say that you are self funding.
Most important is to arrange things well before you are likely to need residential or nursing care.

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#863777 - 11th Mar 2014 9:01am Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 13991
Loc: Wirral
Many thanks to all the contributions and advice on this. It does appear to be a minefield but your informed comments are all very helpful with pointers that can be passed on. Little knowledge can be the result of some things being overlooked.
Undoubtedly, I think legal advice is of greatest importance in this situation, but being forearmed with some information on possibilities, might be helpful in these circumstances.
Mark, that was really helpful, thanks. Also the link posted by Salmon, if it is the same in England.

A young adult is involved here, with no living relatives to ask for advice.


Edited by granny (11th Mar 2014 9:04am)
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#863979 - 11th Mar 2014 10:08pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
sunnyside Offline


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Registered: 4th Apr 2010
Posts: 40757
Loc: wirral
Renting the house out is a good idea but fees for nursing homes are around 500-600 per week, also new law now which says if you rent out now and do so for over 18months then you are liable for capital gains when you sell, which are considerable,so unless you are talking about higher bracket rental property then you will have a big shortfall to top up.

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#864070 - 12th Mar 2014 3:01pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: sunnyside]
rossie Offline
Addict

Registered: 7th Oct 2011
Posts: 270
Loc: moreton
Re Sunnyside :Capital Gains Main residence relief if available up to the point of renting property out.Also you can claim annual exemption so unless the person is in care for a long time capital gains is not likely to be an issue.
Agree it would have to be a big rent to cover nursing home fees.

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#864071 - 12th Mar 2014 3:16pm Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2626
Loc: Wirral
Just another point. It doesnt work giving your property to your son or daughter to avoid 'owning' a house if and when you come to need a nursing home . The council can claw back the money at any time-- people think they are safe if they give it away a few years before, but they're not any more. Councils are desperate , and are allowed to delve back without a time restriction. There will of course be differences between different councils as to how far back whey will try for.

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