WikiWirral 17yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,030,961
Topics75,955
Members13,910
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs6
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
23 registered members (6 invisible), 1,638 guests, and280 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Cheshire Oaks
by BultacoAstro. 27th Jul 2021 10:01am
Newbie here saying hello
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:14pm
Long time no speak
by SoundLad. 11th Jul 2021 6:51pm
Agro ( Funny )
by GaryFromWirral. 9th Jul 2021 7:19pm
New Wirral History
Assistance required: 19th Century Grange Ward
by ByrneJB. 18th Jul 2021 8:53pm
Pictures of Liverpool buildings being constructed
by mikeeb. 18th Jul 2021 12:10pm
Peel Street (Tranmere)
by mb2496. 31st Dec 2011 12:35am
Craftsmans club Grange road Birkenhead
by diablo6. 27th Aug 2011 6:39pm
Calday Grange Grammar For Boys, West Kirby
by . 10th Jun 2007 10:49pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
New Brighton Artwork
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
Topic Replies
Bank Interest
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Aug 2021 11:41pm
Birkenhead is Britain’s top trendsetting town
by mikeeb. 3rd Aug 2021 4:41pm
identify a plant please
by diggingdeeper. 2nd Aug 2021 10:25pm
Vauxhall meriva 1.4 VXR rep
by paul110180. 1st Aug 2021 2:26pm
Garmin Drivesmart 51 Satnav - unused
by gerrymoore. 31st Jul 2021 9:57am
Thornton Hough History
by bliplandy. 30th Jul 2021 1:14pm
Craftsmans club Grange road Birkenhead
by FionaMagee. 30th Jul 2021 10:26am
Jimmy savilles little cottage in Scotland.
by Tomcra. 30th Jul 2021 10:11am
Hello... Newbie to Metal Detecting.
by Tomcra. 30th Jul 2021 9:53am
August
M T W T F S S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Selling house to pay for care home costs. #863642
10th Mar 2014 3:23pm
10th Mar 2014 3:23pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,675
Wirral
G
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
granny  Offline OP
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,675
Wirral

Has anyone got the correct information on the legalities of what happens to a persons home , if that person should be taken into care?
I understand that the home should be sold to pay for the costs, if it hasn't had transferred ownership to another, a number of years previously.
Does that apply to another who lives in the home , e.g. son daughter ?

Example: Mrs S. has a son who has lived with her his whole life and more recently cared for her during her ailing health. Now, that Mrs S.has been put into care, does the home still have to be sold to pay the care home fees, ( as it is his home too but not on any deeds), or will that not apply ?
The last part of the question is: If the owner who is going into care, has not made a will and has now been declared unfit to officially write one.....what happens then?



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Google Ads
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863644
10th Mar 2014 3:42pm
10th Mar 2014 3:42pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 575
Cheshire
Y
yoller Offline
Smartchild
yoller  Offline
Smartchild
Y
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 575
Cheshire
You're best to get legal advice about this.

But as I understand it, if a relative over 60 is living in the house, it will not have to be sold. I think if someone is living in the house and they have acted as a carer, the same thing applies - it won't have to be sold.

You can get excellent free advice from a number of sources such as Age UK or the Citizens' Advice Bureau.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863645
10th Mar 2014 3:44pm
10th Mar 2014 3:44pm
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,950
Wallasey
S
Salmon Offline

Forum Addict
Salmon  Offline

Forum Addict
S
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,950
Wallasey
If somebody else lives in the house they do not have to sell it to pay care home fees.Lots of info here; http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/paying-your-residential-care-or-nursing-home-fees.

Not sure about the non will bit but perhaps intestacy rules would apply. A chat with Age UK would be very useful I imagine.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Salmon] #863655
10th Mar 2014 4:57pm
10th Mar 2014 4:57pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire


Just a word of caution: it probably doesn't make any difference, but that website is for Northern Ireland.


Carpe diem.
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863657
10th Mar 2014 5:12pm
10th Mar 2014 5:12pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
From what ive read up on this and if i have it right in my head the house can be sold. Its Mrs S Asset. And that's all they see the Asset's and Capital they can claw back.

If the Sons name was on the deeds or Half the house was in a Living Will (Which is stretching it) they would not force the Sale of the house. But when Mrs Passes then the Share of the House goes to probate and then i think they can claim back the fees or balance owed.

The whole system stinks its wrong wrong wrong.
And for every corner you turn they charge the earth.

An Example of the same situation on paper but still wrong.

Mr & Mrs X meet fall in love.
Buy a house, but because this is in the 60's Mr X is the bread winner and is the only name on the mortgage. Guess what happens when Mr X is taken into care all them years later ? Yes they want to sell the house to pay the care fees.

What i will say there does seem to be variation per council which should no longer be the case so what im trying to say is that until you get the professional advice take it all with a pinch of salt.

I do think that at best the son may stay there until Mrs S Dies and then will be homeless himself afterwards and nothing to show for it.

The clock starts ticking 12wks after admission to hospital or home and then the bills start. And at about 395 per week or 1,580 per 4 wks any Assets tumble.

Offset with Income.

DWP SP Pension 130 ish . . .
DWP AA 79 -->> Nothing (Attendance Allowance)
Mrs S may have Private Pension

Its no way enough to cover any fees but slows the tide.
They stop taking the money when the Assets fall below 23,250 and No less than 14,250

Example
if your Assets = + 23,250 this is Full Charge.
if your Assets = 23,000 then you pay 36 per week and not 395
if your Assets = 14,250 then you pay 1 per week and not 395
If your Assets = 14,000 then you pay nothing but to put it bluntly you have been raped well and truly.

What you have not said is if the Son has Power of Attorney ?
If not then its not going to be easy.

Drop me a pm if you need more information.
Ive pretty much been going through this for the last 2 yrs
Not the property but capital and assets gone !

Last edited by Mark; 10th Mar 2014 6:26pm. Reason: My god dam spelling lol

My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863658
10th Mar 2014 5:15pm
10th Mar 2014 5:15pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Those numbers of 23,250 are up for review April so they could go up or down. . . .


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863660
10th Mar 2014 5:19pm
10th Mar 2014 5:19pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
This is a copy and paste i got from Northumbria Council

charges for living in a care home (from 8/4/2013)


* What about my house?
If you need to live permanently in a care home, the value of your house will be treated as part of your savings, once you have been a permanent resident for more than twelve weeks. We will make allowance for the cost of selling your house, and any outstanding mortgage charges against it. (The value of your home will not be taken into account if you are a temporary resident, even if you are in the home for more than twelve weeks).
If you do not wish to sell your home now, or if you have difficulty doing so, we can delay asking for part of the charge until you decide to sell it (should you die, the fees will have to be paid then). The financial assessment and benefits officer who sees you will be able to provide further information about this option.


* What about my spouse, partner or carer?
There are special rules to protect the position of other people who are dependent on you. They affect the way we treat your income and your house.
If you have an occupational pension, 50% of this can be transferred to your spouse or partner and not included in the financial assessment. The Financial Assessment and Benefits Officer who sees you can give advice about whether your spouse would benefit from this (for some people it adversely affects benefit payments).
We will ignore the value of your house when working out charges if your partner is still living there, or a relative who is over 60 or who is incapacitated. We may do the same in other special circumstances for instance if someone lives there who gave up their own home in order to look after you.


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863661
10th Mar 2014 5:23pm
10th Mar 2014 5:23pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,238
Wirral
Guidance
Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) 2011

Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide (CRAG) provides guidance to local authorities on how to interpret and apply the regulations.

Click me

Its up for review in April.
But this all i could find when they told me to search for CRAG 2013 so it must not have changed for those years. ?


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863679
10th Mar 2014 7:06pm
10th Mar 2014 7:06pm
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 318
chris58
C
chris58 Offline
Old Hand
chris58  Offline
Old Hand
C
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 318
chris58
My mum and dad made my sister and i tenants in common so when either one of them passed away their half of the property came to my sister and i so only half of the house could be taken into consideration if the surviving spouse needed care. This was only done 12 months before they both passed away. Done through a solicitor, as it needed them to make new wills. We didnt end up in the situation of either of them going into a home.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: chris58] #863711
10th Mar 2014 8:34pm
10th Mar 2014 8:34pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
Wirral
Moonstar Online content

Forum Addict
Moonstar  Online Content

Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,390
Wirral
I am not 100% certain about this but if the person in the care home is ill the NHS are responsible.

Someone else will know better but I do know that a lot of people are claiming back fees that have been taken due to this because the NHS denied liability.

Also, because those in power keep moving the goal posts it would be wise to seek out a specialist in this area. I think the Law Society could advise you as to such a person in your area.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: Moonstar] #863732
10th Mar 2014 10:00pm
10th Mar 2014 10:00pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Wallasey
J
justice Offline
Member
justice  Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Wallasey
Nobody has to sell their home all they have to do is pay the fees.So if family want to rent it out and pay the fees through the rent that is fine. Just say that you are self funding.
Most important is to arrange things well before you are likely to need residential or nursing care.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863777
11th Mar 2014 9:01am
11th Mar 2014 9:01am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,675
Wirral
G
granny Offline OP
Wiki Master
granny  Offline OP
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,675
Wirral
Many thanks to all the contributions and advice on this. It does appear to be a minefield but your informed comments are all very helpful with pointers that can be passed on. Little knowledge can be the result of some things being overlooked.
Undoubtedly, I think legal advice is of greatest importance in this situation, but being forearmed with some information on possibilities, might be helpful in these circumstances.
Mark, that was really helpful, thanks. Also the link posted by Salmon, if it is the same in England.

A young adult is involved here, with no living relatives to ask for advice.

Last edited by granny; 11th Mar 2014 9:04am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #863979
11th Mar 2014 10:08pm
11th Mar 2014 10:08pm
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 45,152
wirral
sunnyside Offline

Wiki Master
sunnyside  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 45,152
wirral
Renting the house out is a good idea but fees for nursing homes are around 500-600 per week, also new law now which says if you rent out now and do so for over 18months then you are liable for capital gains when you sell, which are considerable,so unless you are talking about higher bracket rental property then you will have a big shortfall to top up.


Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: sunnyside] #864070
12th Mar 2014 3:01pm
12th Mar 2014 3:01pm
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 298
moreton
R
rossie Offline
Addict
rossie  Offline
Addict
R
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 298
moreton
Re Sunnyside :Capital Gains Main residence relief if available up to the point of renting property out.Also you can claim annual exemption so unless the person is in care for a long time capital gains is not likely to be an issue.
Agree it would have to be a big rent to cover nursing home fees.

Re: Selling house to pay for care home costs. [Re: granny] #864071
12th Mar 2014 3:16pm
12th Mar 2014 3:16pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
Just another point. It doesnt work giving your property to your son or daughter to avoid 'owning' a house if and when you come to need a nursing home . The council can claw back the money at any time-- people think they are safe if they give it away a few years before, but they're not any more. Councils are desperate , and are allowed to delve back without a time restriction. There will of course be differences between different councils as to how far back whey will try for.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Bank Interest
by BultacoAstro. 3rd Aug 2021 9:26am
Birkenhead is Britain’s top trendsetting town
by mikeeb. 2nd Aug 2021 3:49pm
Thornton Hough History
by bliplandy. 28th Jul 2021 1:30pm
Mass Exodus
by BultacoAstro. 26th Jul 2021 11:20am
Newbie here saying hello
by Omdrolf. 24th Jul 2021 10:14pm
For Sale & Free
Vauxhall meriva 1.4 VXR rep
by paul110180. 1st Aug 2021 2:26pm
Daewoo matiz
by madrob. 28th Jul 2021 6:34pm
Aiwa XC300 CD + remote working well £35
by montyz. 26th Jul 2021 3:40pm
Akai AP-B21 Record Player/Turntable solid £45
by montyz. 26th Jul 2021 3:27pm
Trio 2x30 watt hifi amp with phono in £45
by montyz. 26th Jul 2021 3:24pm
Member Spotlight
madrob
madrob
birkenhead
Posts: 1,041
Joined: June 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Smudger, Lowlight, DarrenA1968, Gammy123, Minimart
13910 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Bank Interest
by BultacoAstro. 3rd Aug 2021 9:26am
Leather Sofa Upholsterer
by Omdrolf. 23rd Jul 2021 8:59pm
Oliver Place
by Chrishenson1. 14th Jul 2021 10:07pm
Lamp-post replacement daftness
by Greenwood. 7th Jul 2021 12:24pm
leather settee repairs
by madrob. 26th Dec 2013 4:11pm
News : New Topics
Birkenhead is Britain’s top trendsetting town
by mikeeb. 2nd Aug 2021 3:49pm
Mass Exodus
by BultacoAstro. 26th Jul 2021 11:20am
Domonic Cummings
by mikeeb. 22nd Jul 2021 5:53pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Fishing in Arrowe park
by swany1965. 20th Jul 2021 11:59pm
New F1 sprint race
by mikeeb. 17th Jul 2021 8:14am
Is anybody alive out there ?
by Nathanplatt. 9th Jul 2021 5:11pm
Magnet fishing.
by vw_kyle. 1st Jan 2020 6:25pm
Jimmy savilles little cottage in Scotland.
by snowhite. 17th Oct 2019 9:35am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Wed 5:34am
Sunset Wed 9:02pm
Local Time Wed 12:57am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1