Forums Forums Local News The Hillsborough Independent Panel link

will be reading that later thanks for the link

While I have every sympathy for the family of those who lost their lives, I find it really interesting that none of those who tried to force their way into the ground are ever heard admitting this and trying to justify their part in the tragedy. The Police obviously made bad decisions, but I wouldn't have liked to have been in charge outside the ground having to make a decision on whether to witness however many of lives being crushed or to let them in and hope that disaster would be prevented. Obviously this didn't work but it's easy to be a genius with hindsight. I work in the medical profession and am glad but not proud of the fact that our mistakes are much less public and more easily forgiven in the media and in public opinion.

What are you trying to say? You've lost me

Forget the crush outside the ground,. forget if you can for a moment the decision toopen the gates...comment on this.....
41 lives could have been saved, these people were alive past the 3-15pm cut off point as defined by the coroner but were refused the medical asistance they deserved by police denying ambulance access to the pitch....comment on this the police altered 164 pieces of written evidence in an attempt to cover up their own mistakes and apportion blame to the Liverpool supporters who they accused of being totally drunk and even worse robbers of the dead....the Liverpool fans that day were all HEROES.....when you have commented on these points I am ready with a whole lot more!!!!

well said

I came across this information, it states the FA failed to communicate safety concerns when deciding upon where the match would be held. It mentions the coroner directing the jury into the final verdict. There is legal information also.

http://downloads.hfdinfo.com/6HFDDutyOfCare.pdf

Forget the crush outside the ground,. forget if you can for a moment the decision toopen the gates...comment on this.....
41 lives could have been saved, these people were alive past the 3-15pm cut off point as defined by the coroner but were refused the medical asistance they deserved by police denying ambulance access to the pitch....comment on this the police altered 164 pieces of written evidence in an attempt to cover up their own mistakes and apportion blame to the Liverpool supporters who they accused of being totally drunk and even worse robbers of the dead....the Liverpool fans that day were all HEROES.....when you have commented on these points I am ready with a whole lot more!!!!


Come on Uffa..we are all still waiting for your response to my post as above..strangely silent, is it because maybe you have finally seen the stupidity of your original remark or too cowardly to make any response in case it contains more crap

Before I start I am a blue, and some remarks made negativally here and elsewhere just go to prove that mud sticks. Also shows that those who post such comments have not the foggiest idea of what REALLY happened that day and cant be bothered to find out.

I in no way know all the facts but have read as much information as possible, read witness statements by fans of both L/pool & Forest,police,ambulance,stewards and local's who live in Sheffield near the ground.

The crush that happened outside the ground, for some reason there were more police 1 mile away from the ground than were outside it, they were ordered to check fans arriving had tickets, weren't drunk and so on. This led to many LFC fans arriving 20-30 minutes later than planned so many arrived near the ground at 2.30-2.40. LFC were given the smallest end to house fans even though they had an average of 50%ish more season tickets than Forest. LFC when arriving only had 23 turnstiles to get 24,000 fans in when Forest had 60 turnstiles for 22,000, this caused many LFC fans outside the ground at 2.52 when players entered the pitch and the game would not be delayed at this point Duckenfield (who was in charge of his 1st major football match) took the decision to open an exit gate to ease the fans in (they all had tickets as all were checked 1 mile away remember) this was the HUGE mistake as his inexperience and not doing his job correctly he didn't realise KNOW that when entering the exit gate fans could only see 1 tunnel to the standing area which when you entered took you to the two centre pens as for some reason the standing are was sectioned off.

Within 30 minutes of the incident Duckenfield said that LFC had forced the barrier, I can only presume that he said this as he had realised that he had made a mistake of the highest order and was covering his tracks whilst fans were still dying.

Remember Duckenfield was solely in charge for police operations that day, he was so in shock he then stated that the fans were fighting on the pitch which meant that only 1 ambulance was allowed to enter the pitch area, we now know that possibly 41 more could have been saved if the medical services could enter the pitch.

Other points to note which I dont know enough to comment on properly are: The ground had no safety certificate, the police in covering their tracks doctored 164 statements, a Local MP told the awful lies to a local sheffield paper who sold them on to the sun, lastly it was said that all fans who died could not be revived after 3.15 (meaning Duckenfield not letting ambulances enter) did not contribute to any deaths, one fand died 4 days later and one was either 3/4 years later.

I would urge anyone thinking of posting in a bad light about this subject to think carefully and so many wounds are yet to heal. R.I.P to the 96

Absolutely brilliant post.

It's all more or less been covered by previous comments but I would like to add that there is film on the net that shows fans not rushing in the open gate and not trampling everyone in their path. Hurrying yes but that is quite natural with the match about to kick off. There were also delays on the M62 which added to the problem.

This could have happened to any club but because of the hatred of Liverpool the city for daring to stand up to Thatcher when no other area would, it was demonised by the media. Anything associated with the city would also be the same.

Dare I suggest that the two dissenting voices on this thread are not from this area or they would have a better understanding. I would also suggest they do some proper research and read the report in full and if not disgusted as human beings then there is no hope.

Thank you to the Evertonians for remaining solid alongside your brothers and sisters and on a final note, thank you to the people of Sheffield who probably feel battered and bruised by all of this yet are as blameless as the fans.

This is a very emotive subject that needs treating with care and respect. But I feel the total facts will probably never emerge, as this latest report is based on evidence they've managed to obtain. I wonder how much has been shredded or "lost" by the powers that be over the years?

I'm neither a red or a blue, but I am from Sheffield. However, I'm a Blade, not an Owl. The thing which concerns me is how this latest report has been interpreted of clearing fans of all blame.

That puts me in an awkward position, because I have friends and relatives in Sheffield with no affiliation to either teams playing that day, and they reported behaviour problems outside the ground on the day. Reports from far afield as Barnsley with concerned coach drivers struggling to get the fans to drink up so they could continue to make their way to the ground.

So are they now liars? Is the report saying "Sorry Sheffielders, you were mistaken"? And if so, is this yet another cover up and will we see yet another report in ten years time saying that this report was biased in order to draw a line under it to allow Liverpudlians to move on?

That evening the local radio stations halted their regular programming. Instead, Sheffielders could ring the station and offer their homes, a hot meal and refreshment, and beds for Liverpudlians who wanted to stay in the city. And that still brings a tear to my eye.

Don't get me wrong, I think Scousers are the salt of the Earth and I enjoy nothing more than drinking with them, and living in their part of the country. I've lived in various places across the North and Wirral is by far and away the best of them all, and if you want me to take sides I'll take the families of the 96 any day of the week. I've no particular love for the police, I've been search and held without good reasons in the past, those of you who know me from my "hobby" will know what I'm talking about!

But there's more than a grain of truth with the accusations of them being the underdog and playing the sympathy card. I think Liverpool must have more candlelit vigils than any other city!

And that reminds me of this very strange story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4372230.stm

I remember when Tom Adeyemi was racially abused during a match at Anfield. If you looked on the Red's forum there were all sorts of wild excuses - one poster even claimed it was a Man United fan who'd sneaked in to cause trouble.

Its unfortunate that Liverpool is marred with Heysel, the behaviour of its fans, and more recently its players and its manager, and that's the kind of mud that sticks for decades and will always be brought up whenever there's an incident.

We'll probably never truly know what happened that day, but lets take comfort in the fact that those who were killed or injured were done so in a terrible tragedy, that's been made all the worse by police lies and corruption. And those in power at the time will pay. And if there are any guilty fans, then the best we can hope for is a lifetime of sleepless nights on their conscience, and judgement waiting for them in the next life.

Perhaps we have more candlelit vigils because we care Gibbo. I think it is an acknowledged fact that the public of Sheffield were brilliant on the day. A similar thing happened here when the grand national was abandoned a few years back.

Football fans can equal behavioral problems whomever they support. School kids in a group can do the same. In fact any group of young people can be a problem in sufficient numbers.

Leeds fans back in the day had a reputation but I don't class all people from Yorkshire as trouble makers. I daren't, I married one. I've seen Manchester United fans causing trouble in Liverpool city and that was when they were playing Everton.

I think once again people are looking for excuses to try and take some of the blame off the authorities. They can think what they like but the fact is that all those people who died were innocent and nearly half of them could possibly have lived if those in authority had done their job properly.