Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Whetstone Lane

The Navy, though depleted to what it was sided with Charles, the royalist troops at the priory were protecting the access to land from the sea, troop movements etc.

Derek it is entirely possible, given the prevailing topographic conditions in the area and strategic goals of the conflicting sides.

As to 'conclusions' mentioned by other contributors, none have ben reached, rather that folk are offering speculative insights. no one here is in any position to offer any conclusive evidence, one way or another. Nevertheless, it's interesting to note that during the Civil War Parliamentary and Royalist forces, seemingly engaged in conflict within the environs of the town.

I wish I could recall where I first heard,or read, the tale of Whetstone Lane being linked to such a skirmish, although not de facto evidence, it's as reasonable a contender for explanation as any other as to the origins of the name.

Just a thought. Oliver Cromwell's mob were at Bidston too, I believe. Could they have approached from a different route or maybe they came to Wirral from Cheshire or crossed the river at Warrington, which was a popular route at that time?

Totally reasonable, one thing for sure an army made up of a contigent of Pikemen, who also carried swords, as was the Parliamentary force, would have much use of a whetstone. #justsaying

If we could maybe pin point dates at various towns, we maybe able to follow their route in order. (another thought!) I think there is a Whetstone Lane in Warrington or near there.

I love this, you are all brilliant!

Great suggestion

The most obvious is of course the whetstone for the edging of steel, perhaps we should explore the possibility of it being named after an civil war general, Lord or other leading dignitary.

You are right about Whetstone near Warrington, a few years after the conflict in Birkenhead, a battle for Winwick Pass occured there.

Could either Hoylake,Liverpool,Birkenhead or Chester have been the embarcation port for invading Ireland (ie William of Orange from Hoylake only 40 or so years later)
note another mention of prince Rupert but in charge of a Royalist navy

English Parliamentary sources reported that the privateers' raids were severely disrupting shipping between Dublin, Liverpool and Chester. The Confederate privateers fought a "dirty war" with English Parliamentarian naval forces. In 1642, Parliamentary ships began throwing captured Wexford sailors overboard with their hands tied. In reprisal, 150-170 English prisoners were kept in Wexford and threatened with death if such killing continued.

In 1648, the Confederates and Royalists in Ireland signed a treaty joining forces against the English Parliament. After Cromwell's landing in Ireland in August 1649, therefore, Wexford was a key target for the Parliamentarians, being an important port for the Royalist alliance and a base for the privateers.

Oliver Cromwell called the battle, "an astonishing mercy, so great and seasonable that we are like them that dreamed",[13] as it meant that he had a secure port at which he could land his army in Ireland, and that he retained the capital city. With Admiral Robert Blake blockading the remaining Royalist fleet under Prince Rupert of the Rhine in Kinsale, Cromwell landed on August 15 with thirty five ships filled with troops and equipment. Henry Ireton landed two days later with a further seventy seven ships.

A leading historian on the civil war era is lecturer and author John Barratt who lives in Birkenhead. Does anyone know him?

You made rather a sweeping statement Erainn, suggesting the evidence was 'fitting' into your own military based theory. That suggested to me that you must think other explanations do not fit or help explain the origins of the Whetstone Lane name.

Not at all, simply enjoying the provision of further information, notice there was no reference to the puzzle's completion, just appreciated a further tantalizing clue. As noted earlier we operate in an areana of speculation, minus incontrovertiable evidence, so any theory can be made, question is to what scale of probability do these various suggestions measure.Looking at the knowns:

We have an area/location named as Whetstone

There is an obvious and singular meaning/use of such an object

There was known Civil War conflict within the area and town

Armies at that time would in all likelyhood have made use of such an object.

Now of themselves these do not constitute a definitive claim and I'm not asserting anything of that nature, yet in terms of connection and reason, taken together, there is a tempting logic to ask if such elements would offer a reasonable explanation, as to the origin of the name Whetstone.

That said along with fellow contributors here I'm very open to equally valid speculation, as long as it has a logical coherence, with at least a plausible set of factors as feature in this particular model.

On the subject of being open to alternatives, I think it would be wise to refrain from dismissing entirely the proposals made in 'A History of Birkenhead' by Agnes McCulloch (1991) concerning Holt Hill (not a cannonball's distance from Whetstone Lane) and it's claimed association with Parliamentary forces.

I refer to the understanding that the name of Holt Hill derives, from the Saxon for 'wood'.

According to the 'Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary' (John R. Clark Hall)

The Anglo Saxon for a wood, particularly a dense variety on raised ground, is not 'Holt' at all but:

'hyrst' which had the meanings of: ornament, decoration, jewel, treasure: accoutrements, trappings, armour. [Ger. rüstung] II. m. hillock, eminence, height, wood, wooded eminence.

Given the topography in question, this somewhat undermines the explanation offered on Holt Hill place-name origins. If it had Anglo-Saxon origins surely Hurst (from Hyrst) Hill would have been more accurate and appropriate? (given it was seemingly a hill covered in forest).

If we agree on that observation then further inquiry is invited upon the suggestion of Holt Hill possibly being a corruption of Halt Hill, with the previously mentioned intriguing Civil War associations.

One little add-on. Oldham was a main town and played a big part during the civil war. There is a Whetstone Hill Lane and a Whetstone Hill Road in Oldham.. Could that be another clue? I know it's a bit far away, but possibly this was a name connected wherever they went. Could it be that they sailed from Birkenhead to Ireland and prepared themselves before they went?
One bit of information I read (can't remember where) was that after they were defeated in Liverpool, they escapeed into ships lined up in the Mersey.

Maybe try sending a PM to Archaeo, he's wiki's resident expert on all things archaeological and landscape related. If anyone's able to shed light on Whetstone Lane and its origins I'm sure he'll have a pretty good idea.

Are we are looking at either coincidence or a hint of some folk tradition that commemorated some locations of Civil War conflicts?