Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History Stones in Field near Bidston Village

well, technically Carnac is a series of monuments, but I take your point. Merely pointing out the fact that it would be a complete fluke if this was prehistoric. Stranger things have happened I suppose, but my money is on agricultural feature.

Exactly.

Maybe a flight of fancy however is there not a fairly agreed relationship between stine alignments and sun/moon rise on specific dates such as the Solstices? If so has anyone looked at the possible alignment direction regarding this?

I actually have another possibility after visiting Oxford yesterday. There were until recently alignments of stone rows on the common (which is also prone to flooding like this field) which were used for drying hay on.

That's an interesting use of such stones, can you share any sources on that?

I was told this by an archaeologist when walking on the common, I'll have a look for a written source when I'm back there next week.

Eriann - the rows go roughly in a north/south direction.

Although I initially liked the idea of hay drying, after thinking about the practicalities of it I'm starting to go off the idea.

It seems a LOT of effort to position theses stones when in reality there is a hillside very close which would not be flooded. Also the location lends itself to winds, unless the top surface of the stones was very large I can't imagine a way of stacking a workable amount of hay on them.

"Staddle Stones" were common down in the south of the country, but these were support stones on which a barn like structure was built to dry the hay. The stones on the Bidston site would appear to be too far apart for any structure to be built on them.

Other thoughts ....

I was wondering just how flooded this area became, could it be something to do with fishing (nets or lines)???

Is it not the case that sunrise positions change over time and that there is some astro-archaeonomy software that can allow approximate sunrise position during ancient periods? Would be intresting to see if there is any 'chance' relationship between the stone's alignment and the position of key sun/moon rise events. Then again any speculation about possible Neolithic origins is weakened by the relative scarcity of major archaeology of that time on the Wiral. Always wondered why there seeems to be no Neolithic barrows present, and even Bronze-Age burial structures, which are fairly plentiful in Cheshire, appear absent from the area.

That would be good to see

Sun and moon rise/set east/west not north/south.

Sure. That's why it may be of interest to know by what degree such positions may have changed over time, to particularly note if they had a significantly different position for that location during the Neolithic?

The amount of axial tilt relative to perpendicular of the plane of the sun is limited to a cycle of less than 25 degrees since long before man was on this planet.

We are currently at a tilt of 23.5 degrees and the rate of change is about 1 degree every 72 years.

If we are tracking the North Pole Star (currently Polaris), it is now very close to Axial North and will be its closest later on this century - as well as our various wobbles, the star moves as well. BUT the North Pole Star in neolithic times would have been a different star (Thuban?) as that would be closer to the centre of rotation in the sky.

The maximum it could vary in a cyclic pattern for any one star is +/-24.5 degrees and would take about 26000 years for a complete cycle.

I am trying to find the maximum rate of change which is proving elusive, I can calculate an approximation but can't see any merit given the rest of the facts.

Take your point on the other factors surrounding this structure. that said what you are revealing is extremely interesting, and who knows, should this indeed prove to be some megalithic construction (boy does Wirral need one) then your researches may well be very insightful

There were bronze age barrows in Wirral. I know of at least two. Wirral soil seems to plough out features rather easily too, so I can imagine there were many, many more. There are also enclosures, settlements, finds but just not widely known or only published in certain circles.

I'd stake my house on these being relatively recent, but like I said before, they still remain an interesting mystery. I'm going for an agricultural feature or boundary stones of some sort.