WikiWirral Share a Little Learn a Lot about your Wirral
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,471
Posts1,033,985
Members14,848
Most Online80,173
Apr 25th, 2025
Who's Online Now
9 members (Alanbentley, 1 invisible), 9,107 guests, and 519 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,810
_Ste_ 16,347
Newest Members
Marc_D, han_3008, Emurphy, Rodger, raslo
14,848 Registered Users
New General Forums
Back To CB, Again! Yet Again!
by TheGodSplinter - 21st Apr 2025 2:29pm
Illuminated Bus WW2
by Alanbentley - 19th Apr 2025 5:11pm
Last person to post wins...
by GaryB - 9th Oct 2007 9:15pm
New Wirral History
Birkett Scheme.
by bert1 - 8th May 2025 8:25am
70% houses damaged
by bert1 - 5th May 2025 3:10pm
Wartime Scouts.
by bert1 - 2nd May 2025 4:11pm
Pte William Tinsley (Lyldesley/Tildsley)
by bert1 - 26th Aug 2012 9:51am
Birkenhead Technical College
by polo_phil - 23rd Nov 2010 4:42pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 17
Topic Replies
Brackenwood Lane
by Longnails - 15th May 2025 12:25pm
More Bins
by Longnails - 15th May 2025 12:16pm
Witches Circle Bidston Hill
by Beaty59 - 14th May 2025 7:43pm
70% houses damaged
by bert1 - 14th May 2025 7:23am
Wallasey woman arrested following knifing incident
by diggingdeeper - 13th May 2025 4:37pm
Work Adjacent to West Float
by Excoriator - 12th May 2025 10:59am
Birkett Scheme.
by bert1 - 11th May 2025 6:39am
ooh Top of the pops
by GaryFromWirral - 10th May 2025 10:15am
Wartime Scouts.
by bert1 - 4th May 2025 10:08am
May
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
bert1 3
Top Likes Received
bert1 25
casper 4
Mark 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#139601 16th Oct 2006 12:47am
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,899
Dazza Offline OP
Forum Master
OP Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,899
This topic is about the rise and fall of Group B rallying. This is NOT a copy/paste in anyway; I have researched the facts and figures to help educate people on what Group B rallying actually was and how everything changed.

Back in 1979 FISA (The current governing body) legalized all wheel drive, the current companies involved in rallying at the time thought that all wheel drive was overkill and that the extra components would be a concern for failure and that the systems needed would be too complex in design. Since FISA wasn’t starting a Group B until 1982, Audi decided that all wheel drive was the way to go so quickly set about building the Audi S1 Quattro.
[Linked Image]
The world of rallying changed when Hannu Mikkola used the S1 on a rally as a test, if he had of entered the rally he would have won by 9 minutes, proving that all wheel drive really was the way to go.

When group B was created there wasn’t allot manufacturers couldn’t enter so light weight space framed cars boasting over 500bhp and all wheel drive was expected in order to have a chance. Now, as Homologation rules state you must manufacture 200 of that type of car in order to be allowed entrance, soon enough every manufacturer wanted in so cars such as the Peugoet205 T16, Citroen BX TC-EVO, Lancia 037, Renault 5, Ford RS200 and Austin Metro 6R4 were created for entrance. The Rally going versions were uprated to the over 500bhp needed to stand a chance so the power increases came from anywhere possible.
[Linked Image]

Eyebrows were raised when people realized how dangerous this could potentially be so a comparison test was set at Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit. A Delta S4 was used and driven by Henri Toivonen and it was capable of 0 - 62 (On Gravel) in 2.3seconds. Henri then drove the S4 around the Formula One track and its time was so impressive he would have come 6th in the Grand Prix. Nigel Martin (F1 driver) tested the Peugeot 205 T16 and admitted it would accelerate quicker than his F1 car could manage, and that Rally car drivers must have half the reaction time an F1 driver has due to not only the complexity of a rally stage but all the variances such as floor texture, weather conditions etc.
[Linked Image]

There were numerous deaths and near-fatalities such as Ari Vatanen in Peugeots 205 T16. The cars entered were constantly improving and Lancia decided to retire the 037 and used its new S4 as a replacement that was both turbo and supercharged. In 1986 at the Port Wine rally in Portugal a Ford RS200 got it wrong on the twisties and collided with a row of spectators killing three and injuring many. FISA's man concern was the F1 so little notice was taken about the condition of Group B rallying until Henri Toivonen driving the new S4 over ran a corner and slid down a verge and colliding with varies trees and rocks. Toivonen and his co-driver Sergio Cresto were killed and the car was engulfed in a frantic blaze with no witness's to the deaths.
[Linked Image]

Henri Toivonen's crash shook every team in Group B rally, and Ford and Audi refused to compete anymore, whilst the other teams finished the season before quitting. It was agreed that Group B rallying was too dangerous and was dissolved in 1986. No restrictions on power/weight/technology/materials and only 200 cars needed for production under homologation rules was too dangerous for motorsport. FISA tried a less intense version of Group B restricting a cars power output to 300bhp but allowed a homologation of only 10, allowing manufacturers to use innovative designs - Group S was canceled at the same time as Group B.

Last edited by Dazza; 16th Oct 2006 2:13am.

My website: www.TeamFord.co.uk
Google Ads
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,269
Likes: 4
Quality dazza, intresting happy

Enjoyed the info smile

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,002
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,002
Ive got about 5 DVDs with the inclusion of the Group "B" era, and the cars certainly where stunning omg

Although Group B Cars where banned in Rallying, they where modified for other events like the Paris Dakar, and various rally Raids, this is what Ari Vatanen started back with after his near death crash in the T16.

Ari also raced a T16 version of the 405 up the famous Pikes Peak hill climb, Im pretty sure his record from the 80's also still stands omg


What If There Were No Hypothetical Questions?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,327
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,327
What a brilliant topic buddy happy

I used to go and watch Group B Rallies as a youngster in Kielder forest in northumberland and it was so very very impressive.

The Metro 6R4 was the one car that sticks in my mind, simply awesome.....

Walking through miles and miles of boggy, snowy forests at 4 am in the morning to catch a glimpse of these awesome power machines, The good old days... What ever happened to them ???


Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,912
Forum Master
Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,912
Jay, you make me want to have been around at those times. To think my dad nearly bought a 405 T16, I can't believe he passed it up smack

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,093
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,093
Great topic Dazza thumbsup

I remember the rs200 most seen acouple of them at shows and 1 at santa pod which was VERYQUICK.

I have been out (as a passenger) in a 6r4 and it was a ride i will never forget carnt belive how fast it was.

Its a shame in many was they were banned but the speeds some of the cars were doing was stupid.

Chris bmw m3 has just done a trackday at Elvington and a Audi S1 Quattro was there he said nothing got near it straights corners even from standing start and the where some quick cars there.


Last edited by tupac; 16th Oct 2006 11:04pm.

drifting drifting and yet more skidding
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,488
AlfaHolic
Forum Veteran
Offline
AlfaHolic
Forum Veteran
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,488
I love Group B beyond belief, makes me laugh when at New Brighton Rally, the newer imprezas cant keep up with the metro 6r4s....we had a visit the other day from a shelby gt500 and a Ford Rs200, right outside our motorsport workshop..needless to say not much work got done....


[Linked Image]

------------------------------------------------------------

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Brackenwood Lane
by Longnails - 15th May 2025 12:25pm
Witches Circle Bidston Hill
by Beaty59 - 14th May 2025 7:43pm
Work Adjacent to West Float
by Excoriator - 10th May 2025 6:13pm
ooh Top of the pops
by GaryFromWirral - 10th May 2025 10:15am
Birkett Scheme.
by bert1 - 8th May 2025 8:25am
For Sale & Free
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Wirral
Posts: 14,491
Joined: July 2008
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Work Adjacent to West Float
by Excoriator - 10th May 2025 6:13pm
Unexpected development
by Excoriator - 23rd Apr 2025 4:45pm
Lower Bebington
by Alanbentley - 16th Apr 2025 7:00pm
Fire inHamilton Square station
by Excoriator - 11th Apr 2025 4:55pm
News : New Topics
Brackenwood Lane
by Longnails - 15th May 2025 12:25pm
Are our local councillors all insane?
by Excoriator - 20th Mar 2025 10:32am
New Ferry regeneration
by Excoriator - 16th Mar 2025 4:22pm
More Bins
by diggingdeeper - 19th Jul 2024 11:05am
Wallasey woman arrested following knifing incident
by _jase_ - 8th Sep 2010 4:02pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Witches Circle Bidston Hill
by Beaty59 - 14th May 2025 7:43pm
ooh Top of the pops
by GaryFromWirral - 10th May 2025 10:15am
My House is Haunted Series
by Longnails - 3rd May 2025 2:36pm
Physio advice please
by Longnails - 3rd May 2025 2:25pm
Popular Topics(Views)
10,359,318 CW Chat room thread
5,607,826 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,436,402 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5