WikiWirral its great, register, enjoy and welcome.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,394
Posts1,033,446
Members14,629
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
9 members (4 invisible), 10,068 guests, and 319 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,795
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
KateF, mashil, Ernst, A_Zero, Janedoodle
14,629 Registered Users
New General Forums
New here
by MissBo - 25th May 2024 4:29pm
New Wirral History
Powell Street Photo
by AndrewR - 22nd Jun 2024 9:09am
Abbots tv repair shop, Birkenhead
by muzzy2 - 13th Jun 2024 5:56pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 8
muzzy2 4
montyz 3
Topic Replies
mattress scam
by steviebyday - 10th Jul 2024 6:33pm
Russia
by diggingdeeper - 8th Jul 2024 8:56pm
Brexit - A Few Years On
by diggingdeeper - 8th Jul 2024 3:07pm
New Brighton front question
by diggingdeeper - 6th Jul 2024 9:29am
Election 2024
by diggingdeeper - 5th Jul 2024 8:08am
Clinic on Tollemache Rd by Nannygoats mountains
by bert1 - 3rd Jul 2024 4:37pm
iphone signal vanished
by muzzy2 - 27th Jun 2024 9:35am
Sunak Starmer Question/Debate
by diggingdeeper - 27th Jun 2024 7:56am
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
muzzy2 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
casper 4
Mark 4
granny 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
diggingdeeper #1083697 6th Mar 2022 1:57am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
The treaty required a council which was not NATO, it was the North Atlantic Council , the council underwent changes in 1950 and 1951 to split off the the organisation to become known as NATO. Most history books repeatedly use the term NATO members when they mean NAT members or NAC members.

The treaty makes no reference to any separate organisation, it is for different nations to co-operate together via the Council.

The first chairman of the North Atlantic Council was Dean Acheson from 1949 to 1950, he was Secretary of State for the USA, he was never employed by NATO nor had a NATO title.

The first NATO secretary was Baron Hastings Ismay in 1952 - who also uses the term NATO loosely in his 1954 book, the book indicates that the integrated organisation (ie NATO) came about in early 1951 after the 6th meeting of the Council.

The North Atlantic Military Committee were partly responsible for setting up aspects of NATO and had discussed it from late 1949 (as a minute title, not an entity) but I can find no evidence that there were personnel assigned to NATO or employed by NATO until later.

The North Atlantic Military Committee later became the NATO Military Committee, I thought this happened in 1955 but it appears to be much later(?). however again, many books etc use the term NATO Military Committee all the way back to 1949 - the simple proof against this is the minutes of their meetings until at least 1969 were titled "North Atlantic Military Committee".

The first Chairman of the North Atlantic Militarily Committee was Omar Bradley in 1949, his title at the time was not "NATO Military Committee in Chiefs-of-Staff Session" as claimed retrospectively, he never had NATO title.

After a lot of searching I found the document detailing the setting up a joint budget for the creation of NATO dated July 1951 https://archives.nato.int/uploads/r/null/3/1/31702/D-D_51_177_ENG.pdf


If you can find any documents that were contemporary at the time that say otherwise I would be more than interested to see them, the NATO archive is full of stuff but difficult to plough through.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Google Ads
diggingdeeper #1083698 6th Mar 2022 2:14am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
And to cross the T's and dot the I's ....

Why didn't NATO come about in 1949?

The Americans vehemently didn't wan't to become part of integrated structure with any other nation.

Why did they change their mind?

Because during the Korea war they wanted the option to use an atomic bomb against Korea and China, however if they dropped the bomb it would have brought the USSR into direct conflict with America. They realised that if NATO was formed then it would bring in Europe to help deal with the USSR. They also expanded the Treaty to bring in more European countries.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
diggingdeeper #1083699 6th Mar 2022 5:57am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,644
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,644
Likes: 14
I doubt none of the above having read much of it over the years. Its inception with or without the "O" was not for the Korean War as you indicated in a previous post, because of the Korean War, of course restructuring took place which is common were treaties are concerned and are overtaken by events. Initially with or without the "O" it was for the defence of Europe.
I see this as a light hearted forum not a university debating society, I have no wish to trawl through University libraries, Government papers or National Archives again, it only scares the children.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
diggingdeeper #1083700 6th Mar 2022 5:01pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,630
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,630
Putin has lost the plot big time.

diggingdeeper #1083701 6th Mar 2022 8:13pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,644
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,644
Likes: 14


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
diggingdeeper #1083715 9th Mar 2022 9:57pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 541
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 541
errr whassup dr fauci

Attached Images
unnamed.png
diggingdeeper #1085203 7th Jun 2024 5:28pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
The USA's capitalist viewpoint has failed yet again. The "support" for Ukraine has been targeted not to save lives but to extend the war in order to bankrupt Russia. This has failed in a spectacular manner, Russia's economic growth is almost double the USA's (5.4 to 2.9), Russia is getting economically stronger rather than weaker.

All that has happened will increase the chances of the further strengthening of Russia and increase the chances of this struggle overflowing into other parts of Europe.

Much of this could have been avoided if the USA wasn't controlling Ukraine with pathetic restraints.

If Putin is prepared to hit the nuclear button, then he is, nothing can change that other than an insurgence within Russia. You have to presume Putin is not prepared to go nuclear otherwise you may as well lie down and let Russia takeover the whole world.

My biggest fear is the USA doing "preemptive" nuclear strikes on Russia, unlikely during a Biden regime but who knows who the next ego driven President is going to be? There is no way that USA will allow Russia to grow significantly.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
diggingdeeper #1085256 7th Jul 2024 11:03am
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Putin offered peace long ago but glorious Britain stood in and put an end to that, the only people who get anything from war is the war mongers.

meaty #1085262 8th Jul 2024 8:56pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,379
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by meaty
Putin offered peace long ago but glorious Britain stood in and put an end to that, the only people who get anything from war is the war mongers.


Do you think it was a genuine and reasonable peace offering? What surety did he offer to show it was genuine? Would you agree to give away UK mainland soil to an invader who had already taken land away previously?

Putin didn't stop at Crimea, he carried on his advance a few years later.

The big elephant in the room is "What would NATO have done if Ukraine had already been a member?"

I agree, most nation leaders are war mongers but that is because we follow history and agree that us the people will be ruled by our lords, they in turn see their function as keeping the surfs subservient, there is no greater subservience than giving your life away to someone else's beckoning.

When we stop voting for rich people, we will probably stop our war mongering, in the mean time "tea breaks over, back on your heads!".


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Election 2024
by diggingdeeper - 5th Jul 2024 8:08am
New Brighton front question
by robin47 - 4th Jul 2024 2:49pm
Brexit - A Few Years On
by diggingdeeper - 2nd Jul 2024 12:33pm
mattress scam
by robin47 - 28th Jun 2024 6:53pm
iphone signal vanished
by muzzy2 - 27th Jun 2024 9:35am
For Sale & Free
Universal Thermocouples brand new
by dodie - 21st Jun 2024 7:56pm
Cambridge A1 Special Edn Amplifier VGC £50 Oxton
by montyz - 18th Jun 2024 5:04pm
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Wirral
Posts: 14,379
Joined: July 2008
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
iphone signal vanished
by muzzy2 - 27th Jun 2024 9:35am
Make New Ferry Great Again
by Excoriator - 21st Jun 2024 2:42pm
Clinic on Tollemache Rd by Nannygoats mountains
by Bluesman - 13th Nov 2023 6:28pm
News : New Topics
Election 2024
by diggingdeeper - 5th Jul 2024 8:08am
New Brighton front question
by robin47 - 4th Jul 2024 2:49pm
Brexit - A Few Years On
by diggingdeeper - 2nd Jul 2024 12:33pm
mattress scam
by robin47 - 28th Jun 2024 6:53pm
Sunak Starmer Question/Debate
by diggingdeeper - 27th Jun 2024 7:56am
New Enthusiast Forums
garage wanted
by robin47 - 3rd May 2024 5:53pm
Popular Topics(Views)
5,128,774 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,062,578 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5