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#1084792 22nd Sep 2023 5:53pm
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granny Offline OP
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Do we really know how accurate The Cheshire Sheaf is, and does anyone know where the information obtained from ?

Last edited by granny; 22nd Sep 2023 5:53pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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granny #1084795 24th Sep 2023 9:38am
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Have a look at Vol 1 Article 409 dated April 19th 1899 which discuses the authenticity and sources of "The Story of George Marsh" which was the previous article.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

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granny #1084797 25th Sep 2023 5:28pm
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Very interesting about George Marsh. All those names that were recorded in the books of historical accounts. Queen Mary , Bishop Bonner, Cranmer, Fox...

Interestingly, having read about the first Bishop of Chester , Dr John Byrd who was put into position by Henry VIII, but after Henry's death and during King Edwards short reign it was permitted for Bishops, Deans and other religous groups were allowed to marry.
Once Mary came to the throne, it all changed and like George Marsh , many were burnt at the stake.
Dr John Byrd rejected his wife to save his own skin (I've never been able to find out who she was) so he was not burnt at the stake along with so many others (probably because Mary's father Henry, had him in influntial positions and he had been sent to Catherine of Aragon along with Fox, and Thomas Bedyll to persuade her not to use the title of Queen. )

Dr John Byrd was sent to the farthest point on the east coast so far as I can make out, to live out his days as suffregen to Bonner in Great Dunnmow.

Dr John Byrd was the first Bishop of Chester and did therefore preach at St Hilarys, Wallasey, as part of his Parish .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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granny #1084798 25th Sep 2023 6:04pm
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Now the reason I asked.

Two accounts written in two different places and taken from two different accounts in The Cheshire Sheaf.

One says Birds House was built in 1621, taken from Robinson's account of Wallasey. He gave no mention to it being built or added to at any later date.


Robinson was a school teacher in Wallasey and was born in 1640's, died in 1720's. So I would have thought he'd have known better than anyone when the house was built.
There is a map also around the time of Vyner maps. (I think it was around 1656) It shows the house and barn in situ as they were much later, prior to the barn being knocked down.

The second account states that Bird's House was built in 1627, and the account given by William Fergusson Irvine who edited The Cheshire Sheaf :

https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/113-11-Obituaries.pdf


Which brings me to Bird's House (again) in Poulton which has had a Blue Plaque stuck on it (can't think why) .. which gives the date of build around 1697.

This is rather annoying as historical accounts are often not even looked for , when others have their own ideas of what they 400 yrs later, would like to make factual.

So I'm not impressed with the Conservation of Wirral department, they should have known better, and much better if they know how to do a job properly. Now landed with a Blue Plaque showing wrong information thus making a mockery of the purpose Blue Plaques.

Therefore as far as I am concerned , Robinson would have been the most accurate with his knowledge during that period in the 1600's which he lived through.


Now I;m going to have a huff and puff.. really hissed off.

Here's the pathetic video and M didn't stand for Margaret either.


Last edited by granny; 25th Sep 2023 6:07pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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granny #1084799 25th Sep 2023 6:16pm
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granny Offline OP
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Admittedly, Roger Kelly did a fantastic job with loving care. Not wanting to take anything away from his dedication and achievement.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
granny #1084800 26th Sep 2023 5:24am
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I'm glad the Blue Plaque itself doesn't make any claim to the status of the oldest house in Wallasey, we have already established that the oldest house in Wallasey may have been built on or before 1539 https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/476381/re-oldest-in-the-wirral#Post476381

Yes, full marks to Roger and to the current owner who has been continuing maintenance.

Wirral has been gaining blue plaques since 2016 when Conservation Areas Wirral decided to create them as part of its heritage trail.


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granny #1084801 26th Sep 2023 11:08am
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The idea of Wirral having Blue Plaques, if my memory serves me right , went back to the early 2000's, when the idea of a Heritage Walk was first envisaged.

I still don't understand why Bird's House should now have one. They don't know what it was used for, they don't know who lived there, they got the wrong date, ... Very strange !
Maybe a WILL would have given them more ideas to go on.

Your link to the oldest house in Saughall Massie does in fact have similarities to the way Bird's House was also cobbled together with stone blocks . Did you mean to write the Oldest House in Wirral ?

Bidston being another old village, I can't find which is the oldest house there. Bidston Hall about 1535, rebuilt 1620 by Sixth Earl of Derby, but I was looking for something a bit more humble. Probably to be found somewhere in The Cheshire Sheaf !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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granny #1084802 26th Sep 2023 5:03pm
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Storeton Hall dates back to the about 1360, Brimstage Hall isn't a residence and dates probably a tiny bit later

It may be worth trawling through the Domesday records to find potential old properties?

I'm sure there are some farmhouses that might date very old, especially near the old mills (water or wind) and rivers or streams however there are probably no records of dates for them. Maybe some fishing cottages around as well? The more you go back the more you have to look at livelihoods, finance all stemmed from food production which invariably needed water in one form or another. Churches and Inns (extant or not) will also give clues to where populations were established.

I'm more confident in the Saughall Massie house being oldest in Wallasey rather than Wirral. One question is whether it was a conversion from part of the "old barn" or whether it was built as a house on the end of the barn. The rest of the barn was converted to houses much later, the date stone on the house is most probably not original, however old maps show a property line segregating the house from the barn but those maps aren't as far back as 1539


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granny #1084803 26th Sep 2023 5:16pm
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And on Blue Plaques.

I think English Heritage only created 2 or 3 Wirral Blue Plaques until they became London-Centric after that it was down to Local Councils.

Most of the Wirral Plaques have happened since 2016.

The majority of plaques are to celebrate named people and are on buildings associated with those people.


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granny #1084804 27th Sep 2023 7:56am
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Been getting mixed up with Wirral and Wallasey, with regards to Saughall Massie, and kept thinking " DD is losing the plot" ! grin

However, I have now realised that

" It is part of the Moreton West & Saughall Massie Ward of the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral and the parliamentary constituency of Wallasey. "

Nice little bit of info on the village and origin of name :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saughall_Massie


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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granny #1084806 28th Sep 2023 12:53pm
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Originally Posted by granny
Been getting mixed up with Wirral and Wallasey, with regards to Saughall Massie, and kept thinking " DD is losing the plot" ! grin

If you saw some of my unedited posts you would have no doubt.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

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granny #1084807 28th Sep 2023 3:39pm
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Historic England announced a National Blue Plaques scheme this month (again!). https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-new/news/national-blue-plaques-scheme/


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

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