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Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. #1080679
18th Nov 2020 10:50am
18th Nov 2020 10:50am
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birkenhead
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mikeeb Offline OP

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Boris Johnson to ban sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2030.
https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/18879649.boris-johnson-ban-sales-petrol-diesel-cars-vans-2030/

Interestingly, this will cause a loss of up to £40 billion of tax revenue from fuel duty and vehicle excise duty.
To cover this shortfall they are discussing a road pricing system but nothing has been decided yet.

"In October 2019, the cross-party House of Commons Transport Select Committee pledged that it would start “a national debate” over the introduction of potential pay-per-mile road pricing schemes. A Labour government first considered road pricing 13 years ago, but plans were dropped over fears of a public backlash."
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...ders-road-pricing-cover-ev-tax-shortfall

One thing for sure, the price and taxing of petrol and diesel will skyrocket for the remaining few that still have a roadworthy vehicle.

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Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080682
18th Nov 2020 3:53pm
18th Nov 2020 3:53pm
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diggingdeeper Offline
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Difficult to argue against pay-per-mile, its a logical method. It is much more preferable than toll roads.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080684
19th Nov 2020 11:03am
19th Nov 2020 11:03am
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birkenhead
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If they are going to do it, they should do that now, not later, and scrap the vehicle tax.
Regarding privacy, there will be a lot against the tracking of your travels though.
I was thinking maybe they could just check your mileage when your car gets MOT'd but there will be a lot of clocking going on then. Cannot see an easy way out of this that pleases everyone.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080685
19th Nov 2020 11:30am
19th Nov 2020 11:30am
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diggingdeeper Offline
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That is the problem, the technology isn’t present.

There is no legal requirement to have a working odometer. Some of my cars have had the same mileage on them every year on the mot certificate.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080686
19th Nov 2020 11:31am
19th Nov 2020 11:31am
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diggingdeeper Offline
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That is the problem, the technology isn’t present.

There is no legal requirement to have a working odometer. Some of my cars have had the same mileage on them every year on the mot certificate.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080687
19th Nov 2020 12:43pm
19th Nov 2020 12:43pm
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Oxton
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A good time to set up an electric car repair garage.

VW pulls plug on helping with £2,500 repair bill
Our £40,000 Passat GTE completely died just outside its three-year warranty
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/09/vw-repair-bill-passat-gte-warranty

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080705
20th Nov 2020 12:04pm
20th Nov 2020 12:04pm
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I don't think we are quite there yet regarding electric cars. Way too much can go wrong with them, and when they do, they are expensive to fix. In 10 years time they should be much better.
Agreed on the setting up of an electric car garage as they will be in high demand soon.

I'm sticking with petrol and diesel for now.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080708
20th Nov 2020 12:34pm
20th Nov 2020 12:34pm
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Imagine it.

It's pouring down with rain, cold and windy and dark. In your electric car is a weeks shopping and two bickering kids.

Like two thirds of Brits, you cannot charge at home because your house has no drive or garage and you park on the street. You have to charge overnight because you have a long journey to make in teh morning.

Outside your house is a public charging point, but there is a car using it.

What are you going to do now?

I really think the government has failed to grasp what a pain in the arse battery cars are.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the way to go, but joined-up thinking is required to see that, and there is no evidence of that from this government whatsoever.

This was clearly obvious before the last election and I blame the clowns who voted them in for the mess we're in now, and the bulk of the 70,000 deaths we've seen as a result of their cluelessness over handling Covid-19.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080709
20th Nov 2020 12:36pm
20th Nov 2020 12:36pm
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Oxton
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Like with many innovations, the owners are the long term test guinea pigs.

It was the same when diesels were being pushed as the best thing to own because they were no longer smoky and noisy, and the DPF filter would capture any harmful emissions, along with the incentive of £20 (now £35) or even zero road tax.

But a few years of local driving and the EGR valves, DPF filters and engines are completely sooted up - all conveniently out of warranty and responsibility of the manufacturers and dealers.

Back to electric cars - if you think pavement parking is a problem now, then wait until electric cables are strung out of people's houses onto the street. There's an EV owner in Lytham who thinks he owns the pavement and blocks it with his car so he can charge his car. Hope he wasn't late for work the time I unplugged it!

Last edited by Gibbo; 20th Nov 2020 12:39pm.
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080712
20th Nov 2020 3:05pm
20th Nov 2020 3:05pm
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I cant see it working out. So all cars, antique and modern today, will not be allowed on the roads? Electric cars are nowhere near as efficient as they need to be, and the battery costs more than the car it is installed in. Last year, a police car in San Francisco, all of which had been converted to electric, was chasing a criminal, and had to stop, the battery went dead. And what about long distance driving?

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080713
20th Nov 2020 3:08pm
20th Nov 2020 3:08pm
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Veh tax is allegedly to keep the roads in good repair, - sorry for pause, was laughing so hard.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: diggingdeeper] #1080714
20th Nov 2020 3:10pm
20th Nov 2020 3:10pm
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and you have had the Model T ford since 1920 !!!

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: red_devil] #1080716
20th Nov 2020 3:44pm
20th Nov 2020 3:44pm
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mikeeb Offline OP

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Originally Posted by red_devil
I cant see it working out. So all cars, antique and modern today, will not be allowed on the roads?

It doesn't state that they will not be allowed. You can buy a brand new car in 2029 so they will not ban you from using it.
The downside will be the price of petrol eventually going through the roof.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080721
20th Nov 2020 11:25pm
20th Nov 2020 11:25pm
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Originally Posted by Excoriator

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the way to go, but joined-up thinking is required to see that, and there is no evidence of that from this government whatsoever.


Originally Posted by mikeeb
The downside will be the price of petrol eventually going through the roof.


Whilst I was a great fan of Hydrogen at one time, things have moved on, clean carbon-neutral syn-fuels are well on their way and may save the internal combustion engine.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080722
20th Nov 2020 11:32pm
20th Nov 2020 11:32pm
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Quote
Veh tax is allegedly to keep the roads in good repair, - sorry for pause, was laughing so hard.


That hasn't been the case since 1937 when 'Road Tax' was abolished.

It is now simply a tax on your car, and nothing whatever to do with roads. Get used to it.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080723
20th Nov 2020 11:38pm
20th Nov 2020 11:38pm
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Unfortunately synfuels - although they are carbon neutral - do nothing to stop pollution in town.

I suspect hydrogen will boom as things like hydrogen fuel cell buses and trains become more popular.

The golden rule with batteries is to not use them if its at all possible. They are a pain and ALWAYS cause hassle.

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: Excoriator] #1080724
21st Nov 2020 2:22am
21st Nov 2020 2:22am
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diggingdeeper Offline
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Originally Posted by Excoriator
Unfortunately synfuels - although they are carbon neutral - do nothing to stop pollution in town.


Emissions for normal cars are negligible, its the other vehicles that need to be brought into line.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080726
21st Nov 2020 12:54pm
21st Nov 2020 12:54pm
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The more electric cars that are produced means the more lithium will need to be mined.
Bloomberg published a report detailing how the boom in lithium mining is irreversibly destroying the local environment of northern Chile’s Atacama desert. Mining for lithium means removing large amounts of water, which means depleting the water supply for locals. According to the report, the Tilopozo meadow in Chile used to be a shelter for shepherds traveling at night, yet has become barren due to lack of grass or water. That puts a severe strain on local farmers.

They are also mining for lithium in Cornwall, and I don't know what the impact of that will be on the environment.

Will we ever reach a point in time when the only resources we need for energy are the sun, wind and water?

Re: Ban on sales of petrol and diesel cars and vans. [Re: mikeeb] #1080728
21st Nov 2020 1:08pm
21st Nov 2020 1:08pm
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diggingdeeper Offline
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I doubt if we shall be using lithium in a few years time, they are finding other options with higher energy density.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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