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Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077921
3rd Jun 2020 10:01pm
3rd Jun 2020 10:01pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Our figures are not dropping like other countries managed to achieve (including Belgium). Our leadership has failed where most other leaders succeeded.

Government had a new tactic the other day, 111 deaths reported but they amended that figure the day after to somewhere around 500 so it won't appear in the stats. That is three days on the run with much higher than expected figures for deaths.

Spain and Italy are expected to have second waves starting before the beginning of August, ours will be after, assuming we have got it under some sort of control by then.

If Chile doesn't react quickly there is going to be a disaster there possibly worse than any other country.

In the meantime our Government proudly announces UK scientific discoveries that had already been declared by other countries weeks ago and makes disparaging remarks about people who think schools should not be restarting yet.

The Government are right, schools should be open again by now because by now the Government should have brought the disease under control - but they failed miserably mostly through their initial bravado and their lack of backbone ever since, bulldogs turning into mice.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Coronavirus [Re: diggingdeeper] #1077923
4th Jun 2020 9:10am
4th Jun 2020 9:10am
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wallasey
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Our figures are not dropping like other countries managed to achieve (including Belgium). Our leadership has failed where most other leaders succeeded.

Government had a new tactic the other day, 111 deaths reported but they amended that figure the day after to somewhere around 500 so it won't appear in the stats. That is three days on the run with much higher than expected figures for deaths.

Spain and Italy are expected to have second waves starting before the beginning of August, ours will be after, assuming we have got it under some sort of control by then.

If Chile doesn't react quickly there is going to be a disaster there possibly worse than any other country.

In the meantime our Government proudly announces UK scientific discoveries that had already been declared by other countries weeks ago and makes disparaging remarks about people who think schools should not be restarting yet.

The Government are right, schools should be open again by now because by now the Government should have brought the disease under control - but they failed miserably mostly through their initial bravado and their lack of backbone ever since, bulldogs turning into mice.



Your being too kind DD, bulldogs! this lot have been a lot of things but never bulldogs,cowardly, undecided, dishonest, Johnson is out of his depth, best stick to fornicating,and wrecking restaurants, he lost it with Starmer yesterday.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077932
4th Jun 2020 1:59pm
4th Jun 2020 1:59pm
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birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

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Originally Posted by DD
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Spain and Italy death rates are comparable to ours.
Italy at 5.5%.
Spain and UK at 5.8%.
Belgium is 8.2%.
The US get a lot of stick but they are only 3.3%.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077947
4th Jun 2020 8:35pm
4th Jun 2020 8:35pm
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Wallasey
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GaryFromWirral Offline
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Liverpool Echo The lack of social distancing here is just a fraction of what the heck is going on this very day .... Oh my !!! The statistics will probably be through the roof , I hope my fears are wrong ; that of the virus being a hybrid of hiv/flu (inhalable aids) made by an evil bunch to kill a bunch of simpletons and oblivious !!!

Beam me up

Re: Coronavirus [Re: mikeeb] #1077951
4th Jun 2020 10:14pm
4th Jun 2020 10:14pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,578
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by DD
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Spain and Italy death rates are comparable to ours.
Italy at 5.5%.
Spain and UK at 5.8%.
Belgium is 8.2%.
The US get a lot of stick but they are only 3.3%.


Yes, but ours is rising at a far faster rate than theirs, we have overtaken them and still carrying on. Today we are at 5.9% and Spain is still at 5.8% and will be for some time, maybe weeks, In two or three days time we will be at 6% etc. Likewise Belgium is now rising far slower than us we are catching them up.

That is 0.033% for all of America, the worst state is New York at 0.16%. The Coronavirus prevention in the states has mostly been run by individual states, not central Government, even though central Government tried to seize control of all medical equipment.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: GaryFromWirral] #1077952
4th Jun 2020 10:23pm
4th Jun 2020 10:23pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,578
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
Liverpool Echo The lack of social distancing here is just a fraction of what the heck is going on this very day .... Oh my !!! The statistics will probably be through the roof , I hope my fears are wrong ; that of the virus being a hybrid of hiv/flu (inhalable aids) made by an evil bunch to kill a bunch of simpletons and oblivious !!!

Beam me up


CV has very little in common with HIV, they attack different parts of the body in different ways. CV attacks certain tissue linings, HIV attacks the immune system. They are communicated in completely different ways, HIV has to enter the blood system, CV doesn't.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077959
5th Jun 2020 9:24am
5th Jun 2020 9:24am
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wallasey
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Face masks to be made mandatory on public transport from the 15th June, this despite being told previously that they offer no protection and are of little benefit, mixed messages again, but having said that this is just a feel good exercise to encourage people to get out and about and back to work, the new D Day if you will no doubt Boris will appear with the let's get it done slogan, as he urges the troops forward from behind the barricade.

My own opinion is masks should have been introduced months ago, both on transport and in shops if only to give people a visual reminder that all is not well, shops more so, most systems in supermarkets are shambolic, queue to enter then a free for all once in, must say the exception is the Coop in Wallasey Village, very well run and thought out, a pleasure to visit.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077961
5th Jun 2020 9:55am
5th Jun 2020 9:55am
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granny Offline
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How many supermarkets have you been in over the last 3 months ? How many buses , how many trains have you travelled on ?

It doesn't matter what the next move is to you Casper, because you won't be happy. We should maybe asking the people who are out in the work force, how they are feeling. If it's good or bad ?

If you remember, face masks were not available from anywhere, even before lock down, due to WORLDWIDE demand ! Neither was hand gel, panic buying in the shops. Have you forgotten all of that ?

Had Government said people should wear them during 'lockdown' what would you think the response would have been ? Some people made their own, many have not and would not plus, there was no evidence that the paper masks produced were of any protection at all and should have been binned after 4 hours usage .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Coronavirus [Re: granny] #1077966
5th Jun 2020 11:00am
5th Jun 2020 11:00am
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wallasey
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Originally Posted by granny

How many supermarkets have you been in over the last 3 months ? How many buses , how many trains have you travelled on ?

It doesn't matter what the next move is to you Casper, because you won't be happy. We should maybe asking the people who are out in the work force, how they are feeling. If it's good or bad ?

If you remember, face masks were not available from anywhere, even before lock down, due to WORLDWIDE demand ! Neither was hand gel, panic buying in the shops. Have you forgotten all of that ?

Had Government said people should wear them during 'lockdown' what would you think the response would have been ? Some people made their own, many have not and would not plus, there was no evidence that the paper masks produced were of any protection at all and should have been binned after 4 hours usage .


In answer granny, I have been in 4 different supermarkets, I have not travelled on any public transport, does that exclude me from having a point of view? my son and daughter have both been in work from day one, so yes I am aware.

The medical grade masks were in short supply, low grade dust masks were available ( they are advising the use of any face covering now), many small businesses manufactured quantities of stuff that was rejected or ignored by our wonderful government, who preferred to purchase equally useless stuff from abroad but could still be used by the general public as good as the hanky or scarf that they recommend, many countries hand them out free ( maybe because they are more concerned about the population)

Had the government said people should wear them during lockdown what would I think? I would have thought that here is a government doing its best to protect the population( yes even a Tory led one) even better if they had enforced that lockdown, but that was never the intention.

Threats of fines or people being refused access to public transport how will that work? who will enforce it? will bus driver's, underground staff be expected to deal with it ( with the likely hood of violent incidents)? our much depleted police force can't deal with local crime and local infringements of the "rules" which they say can't be legally enforced in most cases, whose was that quote it must have been written on the back of a cigarette packet?

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077970
5th Jun 2020 12:12pm
5th Jun 2020 12:12pm
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Wirral
granny Offline
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If the Government had said everyone should wear them, where would the supplies have come from ? There weren't any to be had at that point. Then there was 10 weeks of lockdown, when supplies were limited . So access to masks were not much available and as we know, the prices went up to astronomical levels.

The Government never said we should NOT wear masks. If people insist of Government dictating every rule in the book for every person in this country, then I think we are seeing the end of being able to 'think for our selves' .

The guidance was given by an authority of numerous people, but in all honesty, every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right. Well, that would be according to our media that basically cause rifts in every social issue.

Did you wear a mask when you were shopping ? I haven't and still don't but that's MY decision, and thank goodness I can still make my own decision. I wash hands and face when I get home, and keep everything cleaned.

Last edited by granny; 5th Jun 2020 12:15pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Coronavirus [Re: granny] #1077971
5th Jun 2020 12:46pm
5th Jun 2020 12:46pm
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wallasey
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casper Online content
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Originally Posted by granny

If the Government had said everyone should wear them, where would the supplies have come from ? There weren't any to be had at that point. Then there was 10 weeks of lockdown, when supplies were limited . So access to masks were not much available and as we know, the prices went up to astronomical levels.

The Government never said we should NOT wear masks. If people insist of Government dictating every rule in the book for every person in this country, then I think we are seeing the end of being able to 'think for our selves' .

The guidance was given by an authority of numerous people, but in all honesty, every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right. Well, that would be according to our media that basically cause rifts in every social issue.

Did you wear a mask when you were shopping ? I haven't and still don't but that's MY decision, and thank goodness I can still make my own decision. I wash hands and face when I get home, and keep everything cleaned.


Well we have seen the consequences of people being able to "think" for themselves over the past week, as to advice from the government they didn't say don't wear them, but they did say they are of no benefit so actively discouraging people from doing so, yes you are right most governments didn't get it right, but they followed advice and guidelines for all sources, unlike GB hence the difference in the death tolls,what rating are we now? 3rd highest in the world and still rising.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077972
5th Jun 2020 1:07pm
5th Jun 2020 1:07pm
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I notice the term used is 'face covering' not 'mask'. Scarf, snood etc could be used, or homemade mask, so there would not be huge pressure on supplies intended for key workers. Anything over the nose and mouth will impede progress of dangerous droplets emitted by the wearer, though it will not give much protection to the wearer. However, if enough people wore a face covering, there would be an overall benefit. I haven't worn one yet as I don't have to work or use public transport and I haven't yet been anywhere where I felt too crowded. I have a washable one ready, just in case, and could make more if I needed to.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077973
5th Jun 2020 1:13pm
5th Jun 2020 1:13pm
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granny Offline
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So over the last week, yes, people have been ridiculous and mainly the young who have flaunted the advice anyway on many occasions. Overall the general public have followed guidelines that were put in place, and they were not laws , so we made our own judgements .

However the only answer to that not happening would have been to keep us in lockdown. Rules for fines being brought in is a positive , definite step by government, but it appears you are not in agreement of that , due to you thinking it is not possible . So what do you suggest should be the way forward, Casper ?
Schools kept closed, no public transport, no shops opening, what ?

This virus is going to be about for a long time, IMO, the country has to move forward somehow.

My daughter is back in school, her little one is back in nursery, in the hardest hit area of UK. They are all happy to be back. Everything has been put in place with an army of cleaners, she is teaching outside in marquees that have been erected .

It all costs a fortune, but it's better than being locked up with no outlook on our future.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077977
5th Jun 2020 3:12pm
5th Jun 2020 3:12pm
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wallasey
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The problem is, we were late going in and making any meaningful progress and we are early coming out, other's followed the advice and the experiences of many countries at an early stage to enable a progress except us, of course the country has to move forward and nowhere have I said other wise, but, and I am in no means on my own in thinking that this is too early, only time will tell, it was clearly, either by design or just stupidity to announce an easing of restrictions on a holiday and in the midst of a period of extremely good weather, what did they think would happen? Grant Shapps tells us today the Transport Police will deal with any problems on the railways, that only leaves the buses and trams then, and as I stated earlier the police are unsure about the powers they have or who they can arrest and charge,I really hope you are right granny, because its not the government that will pay the ultimate price.

Re: Coronavirus [Re: cools] #1077978
5th Jun 2020 4:11pm
5th Jun 2020 4:11pm
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mikeeb Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right

Correct. No matter what our Government does, (or any other government for that matter,) they will not stop being criticised. This is a novel situation that we have faced and some decisions are expected to be wrong, but we can still deal with it.

If the country cannot continue economically during a full lockdown, there will be more deaths unrelated to CV than before.
There is too much focus on CV infections and deaths, and ingoring any stats of other deaths or illnesses, or at least putting it on the backburner anyway. I mean peoples Chemotherapy treatment was being held back, now that is not right.

If this was a social experiment by world governments, they have f**ked it up. laugh

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