Britons coming back from China will be quarantined in a NHS facility in Wirral..wonder where that will be then?

Looks like it’s Arrowpark Hospital according to tv news.

I hope the Government are at least covering the costs of this specialist care. Seems a bit ridiculous transporting them from Oxfordshire to the Wirral but they wouldn't want them down south would they!

Loads of Universities are concerned over the large number of Chinese students studying in the UK and in the case of Chester University they warned students that went to China for the Chinese New year that they would be quarantined on return.

I think this stinks. These people chose to go there, live and work there, and do not contribute to the UK economy Who is going to pay for all this? us? Presume Clatterbridge is the target?

Supposed to be in an accommodation block so pretty much must be Arrowe Park

An unusual decision indeed, they have facilities just as capable as dealing with this down South,why transport people half the length of the country when containment seems the best policy, what happened to isolation at a military establishment ? maybe there is more to it than meets the eye,hypothetical senario we live on a Peninsula should the very worst happen and the virus spreads into a full blown epidemic it would be simple to isolate, block tunnels, motorways etc, Arrow Park Hospital is oversubscribed as it is, but very true as you say DD they wouldn't want them down South, just finished watching COBRA Mmmm.

I'd rather they stayed at a hospital rather than the stupid idea put forward that they be self quarantined in their own homes.
The gov should set money aside to pay for this, even to paying loss of income and protection of jobs from dismissal by any of them that are affected by
this quarantine including nursing staff and doctors.
I'd have thought plane landing at Speke would have been better than transporting people half the length of the country when containment seems the best policy.

To most of the population the virus isn't much of a threat in fact just like a short low level flu, but to the weak it can be fatal. This makes it absurd to put it near a hospital. Unless the doctors and nurses are going through a full spray-down each time, just the act of removing their protective clothing can transfer the virus to other parts of their clothing or body.

But its only quarantine, there is very low risk that any of the people are infected, they have already passed the basic checks.

Its yet another warning that the amount of international travel is very dangerous to the human race. If a fatal virus occurs that is as virulent as the common cold but with a very slow incubation period, it would be spread round the world before the first symptoms show.

To use Clatterbridge is much more viable. Arrowe Park is full of visitors and staff all day long. If it breaks out there, which I hope does not happen, heads will roll in Westminster. There is no way we should have potentially allowed this to spread directly out of the virulent area. Bad bad!

Isnt the AP Hosp accom blocks supposedly for visitors to terminally ill patients etc???? It will have to be VERY disinfected once the two weeks are over or are they just going to let the people walk out the door?

Arrowe Park have a staff/student accommodation block iirc. If there are no cases found then no disinfection will be required.

Its pretty unlikely any cases will be found.

Saying all that, it could be a bluff to throw the media off the scent as to the location. Much like Boris's visit to "Cheshire" last October

They have to go somewhere, why not Arrowe Park, if they have the required accommodation on site ? Better than being in a hospital with wards. I suspect each person will have their own room if they are to be quarantined and no visitors .

I don't think so much International travel is the problem, more like eating wild animals and stray dogs, cats, and anything else they can lay their hands on. Bears paw, monkey, snake, bats. ....
4000 stray dogs and cats were flown to Asia at the end of last year. Live meat. Possibly carrying rabies , worms or any weird disease.
It was bats the source of Ebola, if I remember correctly. I'd also check out your next chicken chow mein, that chicken is not like the chicken we cook. The texture is totally different.

There are other planes bringing people back too, independent of the British Government. Cathay Pacific is one, and according to one family her grandson and others are not expected to be quarantined.
These people have flown from different provinces. Not Wingywang (or whatever the place is called. ) So there could be quite a lot more from various places now it's hit every province. If we take the embassy staff etc. alone from Wingywang (if there is an embassy)the numbers must add up. US were getting their embassy staff out.

Another thought although up to now it has not been mentioned, illegal immigrants, most crossing the channel appear to be mainly from Iraq/Iran but those coming from China have been coming in Lorries highlighted by the sad loss of life recently, is there be a possibility that the virus could be carried this way?

If the virus is as low level as DD suggests, then why is it being treated as an epidemic of such huge proportions? it is as DD said to quarantine people who are possibly infected in a hospital amid people with low immunity and susceptible to picking up the slightest ailment a bit risky.

Statement from Arrowe Park Hospital ...

Scary ..... like the movie 28 days later! But real ..... ahem .... alledgededelyyy The US owns the patent for this strain of cocacola virus . mad maybe not so magical a mystery tour

https://fullfact.org/online/wuhan-virus-patent-gates/

China had shut its airports, but countries fly in and take their people out, they should have stayed in China for the two weeks or whatever, why spread it around the world?
In case you don't know the World is coming to an end, the bush fires in Australia and then the floods, Earthquakes in other parts of the World, volcanoes going off, now we have the virus, look out for the four blokes on horse's or should that be for Apes on horse's !

But it wouldn't be two weeks staying in China, they would have to stay until two weeks after the last known case in their area.

From the current figures, only a very small proportion of the local populations have the disease. The estimates are that in Wuhan it will top out at 0.13%, it is currently at 0.03%

Then there is the compartmentalism dilemma. If you are in a location where the disease is known to exist, would you stay there which would increase your chances of getting the disease or would you depart which would decrease your chances of getting the disease?

Apparently we are getting a visit from the health minister to thank Wirral for its help.

Do you know when, Casper ? I wanted to have a word with him.

the villages of Eyam in 1665 showed how to contain the plague and stop it spreading throughout Derbyshire. I assume digging deeper by your post regarding compartmentalism dilemma you would have left the village.

You've put me on the spot granny, I can't remember whether I heard it on the radio the TV or read it on line, Angela Eagle has asked for a reason why our local MPs had to find out the details on the involvement of Wirral from the media instead of from the department of health, apparently this area was earmarked a long time ago for other reasons, who knows, with another plane load leaving China, will there be enough room at APH ?

Just had a thought granny I posted at 9.03am so I must have seen it on the news.

Really Granny, I expected more from you. Wingywang? Just because foreign places sound different to ours, there's no need to take the mickey. Especially when the UK has towns with names like Twatt and Bell End. Ridiculous. And as for watching your chicken chow mein, do you really think your local Chinese take away would pay to import a chicken all the way from China if they could buy it at half the price from Teco or Asda?

Neither you nor I can answer those questions, Casper. Anyway, I must have missed Matt , such a shame.

Habdab, do you remember asking me for a date ? I do..... I could have told you all the ins and outs of Chinese chickens .

ps. you forgot Pratt's Bottom !

You've obviously confused me with someone else Granny.

No, I'm sure it was you. Are you worried now ?

How rude of us to ignore your post, jimbob. Actually it's a very interesting to read about. Here is a link : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35064071


It wasn't you was it jimbob ( who asked me out on a date ) ?

There are two parts to the dilemma, the first on an individual level (as you suggest), the second is that the less people that catch it the less it is likely to spread.

The complete Eyam quarantine was put in place only after smaller quarantine zones had failed. I'm sure there will have been other villages where the smaller quarantines had been successful and lesser numbers of people died.

Philosophically the action can be compared to sacrificing people to the "Gods", its all about sacrifice, the question is always about scale, how many do you sacrifice as even retrospectively you can't judge which number is correct.

Things are bad in China. Just watched a live report from Animals Asia as they travelled back to their centre in Chengdu. Roads empty, supplies of masks , hygiene supplies are running low, as in disinfectant, hand wash and medical supplies are low etc. Most of the shops are closed , and human food is in short supply. What food is available has doubled in price. Food for the bears is also running out along with medications.
They are expecting the coronavirus to peak in March/April/May

See on the news the next plane carrying people from Wuhan are going to be taken to Milton Keynes for the 14 days quarantine.

So much for the assurances that hospital staff wouldn't be used in the quarantine area at APH, it has been confirmed that some staff have been told to be flexible and must work between the two areas, and have been doing so for over a week our local MP's have been asking for details since Tuesday and have basically been fobbed off with the answer that all actions comply with health guidelines, How can it be that people can just come in without any meaningful consultation and information and take over? there is a risk however small that infection could be carried to the very sick with low immunity, hazarding a guess it looks like a money saving exercise and questions need to be asked and answered.

All Biotech ...in my tinfoil opinion ... scaremongery indeed .. all scary really

The news states that one of those in quarantine in APH has threatened to abscond, new rules citing serious and imminent danger have been introduced to prevent people refusing to be quarantined or to stay in quarantine to be legally held.

Always one isn’t there,, he got flight home and agreed to quarantine for God’s sake just do the 14 days, bloody idiot! Makes me so angry sedate him or her if they have to!

I believe it was at Milton Keynes not APH.

It said Arrowe Park on lunchtime news.

Yep, seen both now, the first reports were Milton Keynes but as the later ones are APH so I'd guess they are correct.

Only three days left for the first APH batch or maybe two if they include the travel time, if none show symptoms there is no reason why the travel time can't be included..

What's going on with these two ?

Quite ironic that considering this couple have been on the BBC sending their daily reports and complaining bitterly about the UK Government for not arranging flights home.

Then yesterday, flights home are arranged but this couple have now been confirmed as having caught the virus and according to their son , he said they were in hospital when he spoke to his mother.

This morning that information seems to be incorrect from BBC update .

Could someone be looking for compensation or is it another example of how the BBC can get things wrong, when relying on others for their news stories..... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51541352

Looks like Arrowe park going to receive these folk off the cruise ship to do their quarantine.

Four people off the cruise ship and taken to Arrowe Park tested positive, they have now been moved to an isolation unit . Hope there’s no more , scary let’s wish them a speedy recovery and this damm virus can be stopped and doesn’t spread .

Coach drivers twitching a bit.....still conflicting news. Some say only spread by close contact and not airborne, others saying many on the cruise ship quarantined have contracted it through the air conditioning suggesting it is airborne.. 8 out of the 9 previous UK cases are now well

It was confused by WHO, they defined "close contact" as within 6ft, not actual contact on this occasion.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html

There can be no doubt it is airborne, any virus that attacks the surface of the airways is bound to be airborne, that doesn't mean it is not spread other ways as well.

A second phase may be when carriers catch a simple cold and then the disease may spread but as they are symptomless the virus may not be on the surface of their airways.

Lack of information, denials about staff use at APH, and now we have managed to export the virus to Wirral, latest on TV this morning is if anyone is infected it is no worse than flu or a bad cold and may not even need medication, it is only risky to one in five of the population, mmm something doesn't sound quite right.

CHINA MOVES TO ACT ON WILDLIFE TRADE. Today in China, a proposal "on comprehensively prohibiting the illegal wildlife trade, abolishing the bad habit of overconsumption of wildlife, and effectively protecting the lives and health of the people" was reportedly approved by the National People’s Congress Standing Committee. The welcome move follows a temporary ban on wildlife trade imposed after the coronavirus (COVID-19) was traced back to a market selling all manner of species, dead and alive, in the city of Wuhan.
This cruel trade taking a terrible toll on countless animals, and now people - nearly 80,000 have been affected by, and more than 2,500 have died from, the virus to date - this measure must achieve what it purports, tackling not only illegal but ALL wildlife trade.

I've just read that in the areas of Lombardia and Veneto there are close links with the Chinese garment industry and Italy's clothing firms. I suppose, it's possible to spread that way too but there is a large population of Chinese there also. Legal and illegal. They get everywhere , popping up like mushrooms.

Don't buy Chinese anything and definitely not Chinese mushrooms !

A hotel in lockdown , football fans quarantined , a British school closed , Read somewhere that the Iranian Health minister now has also tested positive for the virus and the BBC news website is looking a tad alarming too .. glad I haven't procreated in this world.

Hong Kong Phooey

Animals being executed, notably dogs. While it appears unlikely that dogs are primary carriers, some irresponsible owners in quarantine have been letting their dogs out into public places which means if the owners are infected then the virus could be on the dogs fur and getting spread around.

WHO are fairly convinced that while the origin of the Corona virus is bats, they strongly suspect there is another creature that is an intermediately between bats and humans.

HIV was similar, while it originated in one primate (from the common SIV virus) it then went through at least two additional species giving three different types of the virus.

Lets hope Coronavirus isn't similar to HIV which can hide in small parts of the body but still not be completely de-active.

I don't know the science facts ... try my best to stay away from thoughts of suffering , but if those in "power" think they are ... they won't be forever and they can die with the rest of the poor and helpless and we'll all laugh about it in a millenia. jolly good

It seem to be a bit more than Hong Kong Phooey. In fact it's travelling at an alarming rate. I wonder if the travel agents are going to reimburse all the Easter hols that families have booked, either here, there, or anywhere if requested.

Quite a number of BA flights to Europe and other places are to be cancelled through March, so I assume they will automatically make refunds .

A couple of cousins have cancelled their cruise to the far east at the end of March. They have received a refund. It should be an option now for everyone.

Has anyone bought the masks. Boots by me don't sell them and have run out of handwash
Ordered some masks from China Feb 2 - possible April delivery so I decided to make my own until then.

Ha, if we didn’t laugh we’d cry eh.. pretty scary situation though. I heard today that masks were being bought up and on eBay for astronomical prices, don’t know how true that is. Ye I went to get some hand sanitizer today and none available. Toilet rolls and food be the next thing to start disappearing off the shelves as people panic. Nostradamus knew all these things would happen according to media , the mind boggles!

Matt Hancock replied everything is being considered when asked about zero hours workers and others without access to sick pay, which means no, so people living hand to mouth have to consider if I don't work i could end up heavily in debt or on the street, and if I do go to work I could spread the virus, so much for Boris's everything possible is being done, he should have added unless it costs money, as for procedures similar have been in place for years in case of a NBC strike.

Why would toilet rolls be off the shelves ? Who eats those ?

Blind , Baba Vanga is another clairvoyant who made many predictions.. but I'm not sure that all the predictions attributed to her, were in fact hers or made by others in her name. She died in 1996 and by all accounts predicted 9/ll ,


In 1989, she predicted an attack on the United States:

Horror, horror! The American brothers will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing.

— Predicted in 1989 by Baba Vanga

There is of course another source and that is the bible. Great earthquakes, famine and pestilence. etc. etc.

Ha, ha ! well done Derek ! Just use soap and sing the national anthem.. as directed by the Mogg.

I know Casper will appreciate that idea

i read that coronavirus is killed by alcohol over 60%. If beer is abourt 4% does that mean a minimum of 15 pints..I know both could kill you but at least youd be happy for a while..

Not if you're on the job . A legless fish ?

Yes indeed granny Vera Lynn singing on the wireless (its a lovely day tomorrow) all pulling together, all volunteers of course,Boris doing his Churchill bit giving us the two fingers, the cigar replaced by a worn sausage, thoroughly washed and disinfected after use.

Is the co-founder of Apple patient zero for coronavirus in the U.S.? Steve Wozniak told Inside Edition that he and his wife were both sick after returning from Hong Kong in January, where he came into contact with a tourist from Wuhan, the epicenter of the crisis. He said he is now recovering, but said he knows “that if we returned from Hong Kong today with the symptoms we had, we’d be candidates for testing and quarantine immediately." hmmmmm burn him with fire??!! lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsz-JQVJAbw

Just as long as he's getting better. Had it happened today and he had not been quarantined, should he have died there would have been ructions.

In Tesco today, not a toilet roll left on the shelves. Incredible. Whether Tesco had refrained from putting more stock out, I don't know but what have toilet rolls got to do with this virus ? Crazy mentalities !

Speaking to my sister in Western Australia this morning - no toilet roll out there either - worldwide shortage! ?

One of the common symptoms is diarrhoea which lasts for quite a few days, it would be difficult if you are in self-quarantine without loo roll, especially if you are quarantined within a household.

I wonder if the same problem has occurred with tissues? Same thing really, though perhaps not quite as robust.

I've not seen any figures for the spread of the virus in the UK ie those have that got infected inside the UK. This would give is a much better idea of spread. I believe it only to be a handful at the moment, perhaps less than 5?

We are up to 209 cases now. Keep track on: worldometers.info
Gives you all the gory details.

I've not seen any mention of diarrhoea in the list of symptoms given out, wash hands, self isolation, self medication,perhaps we should be cutting up the echo into little squares, its already very clear that the NHS couldn't cope with a mass outbreak, I'am sure I read a news article saying that the elderly and those suffering with underlying health problems would be ignored (thrown under the bus) in favour of treating the healthy who are more likely to survive under the worst case outbreak. oh forgot to add, sing land of hope and glory, if all else fails.

I think people think we might end up going into lockdown like Italy so no deliveries anything., that still doesn’t excuse panic buying, shops should ration goods. As you say Casper not getting rid of my Wirral Globe , might come in handy...I find it very worrying not so much for myself but I’ve got little grandchildren and the baby is not great with infections etc so paranoid and frantically washing hands and luckily I had some gel so using that continuously..its going to ge5 worse before it gets better so pray they find a vaccine..Apparently the virus doesn’t do well in heat, have hot baths folks , try anything.....

Washing your hands is pretty futile in its own right, its just a way of making you more aware of what you do with your hands. If you have CV19 on your hands then you also have it on your clothes where your hands have touched them, wash your hands and within seconds you've touched your clothes and re-infected your hands. The main trick is to keep your hands away from your face, ideally (like cooks and others) have a dirty hand and a clean hand, touch doors, stair rails etc with one but still the chances of contaminating across your hands is pretty high eg through a steering wheel, opening a packet of crisps or whatever.

The amount of physical damage CV19 causes is huge, it punctures holes in the lungs to which you body reacts highly (almost like a burn), then it starts the same on blood vessels and heads towards other organs, particularly the liver.

In My Humble Opinion ..... If you get it, its important to try and keep your lungs free of debris and fluids, although they tell you to rest, I would try and do the opposite and ventilate the lungs as much as possible. Most people that die have died of pneumonia although CV19 in the worst cases would kill you eventually through organ damage. I would also take anti-inflammatories to attempt to reduce the amount of fluid the body pumps into the lungs. If you get to the pneumonia stage you need antibiotics. .... IMHO

How each individual tries to prevent or mitigate the disease is up to them, the authorities have to take into account the overall effects of giving out information and will give out some propaganda.

Oh my DD, you sure know how to make a person feel better ha....So I guess it’s back to hoping and praying then.

I would prefer the authorities were honest. They know by now the lifespan of CV19 outside the body but they aren't saying, they are just giving vague figures based on other CV knowledge. The lifespan is long, most probably greater than a week, I'm suspecting they know its more like 28 days rather than the 9 days they are flouting.

The 1% mortality rate was nonsense and they know that, it was simple arithmetic based on UK figures (200 cases, 2 deaths). Those figures were highly unrepresentative of the general infection and don't tie up with other countries stats.

I have no idea what the Government's game-plan is but its strategy is most certainly not based on minimising the number of infections. That can make sense, more exposure to the virus can translate to a safer future. Just imagine if we were the only country that didn't have a case, it would just remain a ticking time-bomb until it happened unless a vaccine was created (just remember that the common cold still has no vaccine).

Even if people don't get fully exposed to the virus, a passing whiff of it could improve the immune system's response should they get a dose. That is the problem with this virus, its not the virus's strength, its just that our immune systems haven't come across it before and haven't got a clue what to do with it. Similar to the numerous diseases that we hit parts of the rest of the World with back in the day, the common cold can be serious to a population who have never come across it before.

Feel even better now?

Anyone seen this yet. Spooky to say the least. Published in 1981 ......

Dean Koutz. Eyes of Darkness

Not sure how easy they are to read on here.



Reuters are trying to dispel the theory that he is a clairvoyant or can prophesize. What he wrote was on a par with fantasy, but seems to have a prophetic angle but Dean Koutz has not claimed anything.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...-coronavirus-2019-outbreak-idUSKCN20M19I

There are lots of disasters in fiction which turn out real.

Tom Clancy's Executive Orders features ISIL and a global virus epidemic.

Debt of Honour has shades of 9/11 in it.

As does this computer game from the 80s:

A lot of these writers glean their information for books from actual deactivated sources or accounts of people involved eg; Andy McNab drawing on his experiences in the SAS to write fictional books, so no doubt there may be a grain of truth in some of them.

Lets face it what we have is a biological agent, how it evolved or came to be, is anyone's guess we are told it originated through eating bats, maybe the bats came into contact with it in a secret establishment, doesn't sound to far fetched does it, maybe it was an intentional release to cull the poorer Chinese population, who knows, we see China spraying floors and walls well spraying everything, which seems to indicate it has a persistence to remain for periods of time.

I think Ebola was said to originate from bats. Monkeys ate the bats and humans ate the monkeys.

I have to say, that the Old Testament which gives the Commandments ,forbidding the human consumption of scavengers and carrion eaters, which devour other animals for their food..... and the list is long , makes sense to me, basically telling us that some animals carry diseases which we can't fight , and not to mix the blood ! (think I might have mentioned that before a long time ago)

What they don't eat in China isn't worth mentioning but as you say Casper, obsessive about de-contamination and they wear masks on a daily basis, coronavirus or not.

My niece's son was sent home early from school ( in Kent ) today at 10.45am .

She asked why .

He'd been expelled for the day after being caught charging students 50p a squirt of hand sanitizer .

Jenny?

Oh god serious stuff this now and yes thought it was disgusting and so irresponsible to let that Liverpool game against Madrid go on!!!!! Do they all think they immune to this because of bloody football and game must go on!!! So many now will be passing this on who were there last night in the pubs etc. Take it serious folks because it is!

24,000 plus die from Cancer every day around the World, that's over 9 million a year! and we all take this in our stride!

No we do not take in in our stride, many millions of people grieve for those that die or have cancer, many millions are living in suffering and many millions of pounds are spent trying to cure it and treat those suffering from it.

There is a huge difference in a non-communicable disease like cancer and CV19 which is communicable, if cancer was communicable on the same level as CV19 we would all be walking around in hazmat suits by now and the population would be very much decreased.

Has anything been said on the news etc whether private hospitals and their staffs will be involved in treatments and if so, would it be through NHS or privately in some way

I doubt it Derek , because I don't think the private hospitals have high dependency beds. If they can I'm sure they will , as they take NHS patients anyway, for operations .

Anyone else sick of hearing about hard times for Tranmere Rovers on the radio today, this is going to affect everybody one way or another, banging on about how much they do for the community, next stop WBC for a sponsorship on the strength of it.

well i wouldnt expect him to talk about the price of bacon.....and if he has been asked about how it will affect football teams what else do you expect him to talk about. Ironically it (corona) could save them from relegation..

Not long ago MP's told us that brexit would make medicine hard to get, supermarkets with empty shelves and people panic buying and travelling would be affected. Did they know something was around the corner?. Makes you think

This is like something out of a sci-fi book or movie . It’s quite surreal..every time I look at the news it’s getting worse and now more quite alarming measures going to be taken. And we thought we only had Brexit to worry about!! I’m finding it quite terrifying and wonder what’s going to happen next? Listening to Trump it sounded like the end of the world was looming.. God help us.

You listened to Trump? Baaad move...! Seriously, yes it is time to take all the precautions we can to avoid the virus and it's going to be a difficult few weeks/months ahead for everyone, but the vast majority of people should come through it okay - although the most vulnerable will be threatened, by the self isolation if not the virus, and the economy will take a big hit from enforced closures etc. Keep calm and follow the official advice - it's all we can do really.

Yes you’re right Greenwood, guess I’m watching too much news and getting panicked by it all. It is serious but as you say got to follow what they say and get through it.

Well that's been shot down by France, they say Ibuprofen aggravates the disease and to use paracetamol.

I see both the NHS and America were suggesting Ibuprofen, it will be interesting to find out why it reacts with CV19.

If anyone gets it, would they be willing to post on here how they are affected, what they feel like, progression etc. Also how they think they caught it.
I think it would help us understand better what to do and best things to do to avoid if possible.
Seeing all this panic about hand gel, why not just try a spot of bleach to wash hands with?

Try to get some paracetamol ! Sold out everywhere. Pasta is another. Why would anyone want to stockpile pasta ? It's all ludicrous behaviour.

I have my doubts that it originated in the meat market as I read an article the other day (whether we can believe such journalism is also questionable ) with US blaming China and China blaming US.
China says it is an American disease that might have been introduced by members of the United States Army who visited Wuhan in October.
Well, if that is the case, it throws their original theory that it originated in Wuhan wet meat market, out the window .
To actually see the spread of such magnitude in such a short period of time, really does present more questions than answers in my opinion.
If it's about to get so much worse, I wonder what the contingency plans are for the Army and Navy personnel , the cemeteries and to tell people over 70 to self isolate for up to 4 months is even more crazy.
Order online ! Great idea if the 70 plus have computers, and the supermarkets have the available staff to make the deliveries. If that does happen I hope the general public will pull together and help the little old lady down the road who has no one and is too frightened to ask. I also hope that the little old lady isn't ripped off by some con man/woman.

Is this a world wide prep for a nuclear attack ? It makes you bloody wonder !

A letter from a lady in Yemen posted in the last few days, it sort of makes a point :

Message from Sara Ameri ,Yemen: “The citizens of the first world are in panic: they are experiencing something ordinary for us. Can’t you travel? We haven’t travelled either, for five years. You can’t leave the house? It’s raining bombs on us.
Do they stockpile goods in supermarkets? In our war zone, production is paralyzed, imports are very low. Is a terrible virus spreading? We experienced the same with cholera. Are you worried about the children? Welcome to our everyday world. Do you feel cut off as a nation? We have been cut off from 90% of the countries. Losing jobs? So many of us haven’t received a salary in five years. Schools closed? It’s been happening for years. Health system in crisis? That happens with us, no matter what kind of disease you get. Don’t worry, it’s tough at first. Then you get used to it.”

Did you see the post on here the other day someone advertising home delivery packs, masks, gloves wipes pasta toilet roll etc £100, unbelievable, as to the lady from Yemen, we too have been bombed and starved, cut off as a nation it happened a long time ago but none the less it happened, so yes we do know.

I don't think she is appealing to the over 80's Casper. Unfortunately , I doubt her children know either. If they did, of course they would think it is just the norm. We all have to experience to understand , apparently .

Yes, I saw the post of that guy advertising.. there's always someone ready to make a killing .

Think when this self isolation comes in for over 70s this forum and others are going to become very important and think we’ll all have to try and keep it interesting and alive to give folk abit of a distraction from the horrible situation facing us . So let’s try and get it how it was , entertaining and funny some seriousness but we all in it together eh....

I am still a young whipper snapper......looks like i will be running the errands! What is meant by isolation ?. If i walk out house , jump in car, drive out to a remote river, fish all day and then drive straight home ?

They say police will be used , so watch out for grasses Fish who’ll dob you in to the iso squad. You’ve seen how it’s done in China man handled into a closed truck , yikes!!!

Good call cools,as long as we don't get worried when a screen goes blank, like the ten little Indians.

just watched a police drone in Japan or china chase an old lady back to her house.. Pensioners will be dressing up in black and be out creeping in the shadows just to avoid cabin fever.

Just wondering in the next few weeks or more if you've got a car would you be able to drive somewhere but not leave your car or mingle with anyone.
Unfortunately I'm the only one with a car because there were a few things I was thinking of
Ask my daughter if possible to do some shopping if needed and put into bags so I could collect from either her house
(left on doorstep for collection) or car park of the shop.

Derek, I would. You wouldn't even have to get out of the car, she could pop them in the boot. Just make sure you wear gloves in case bags carry this virus. (I'm not sure about that ) and sing Happy Birthday twice when you get home and then wipe your steering wheel .

We don't even know how long this virus lives on things do we ?

I doubt you will be arrested .

I think if you get the virus , that will be different, but plenty of options are beginning to be put forward if that time should arise for someone.

Can anyone else can give Derek more info ?

How Long Does the Coronavirus Last on Surfaces?
https://www.wired.com/story/how-long-does-the-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces/

This would have all been kicked in the butt, if governments took more action back in November last year, as soon as you started bringing people home, you started spreading the virus!
But the great unwashed people of the UK get what they deserve, i feel sorry for the older folk as they are the ones who will pay for it!

So the virus is persistent for a long period of time, yet the government have not given any information on this, this type of information would make people realise the need for hand washing and disinfecting surfaces, we have watched the Chinese spraying ceiling to floor for months so they have known about its persistence to remain on surfaces, yet here we have Boris with his caught smoking in the toilets face on reiterating the same thing, give us the information that will help us understand the virus better.

Washing your hands makes no difference if you touch your clothes. It’s just a petty exercise to keep the masses happy.

Doesn't the soap create a barrier ?

Saw this yesterday.




This is an unknown as much to us as the rest of the world. WHO advice hasn't managed to stop it from spreading, so we are in the lap of the gods. We can find blame all we want if we actually knew from which lab this 'designer virus ' originated , until then nobody is any the wiser. I say 'designer' because viruses don't generally pick and choose their targets without a bit of help. Accuse me of conspiracy it's fine, but I believe as things are, we are all human, it doesn't matter who the leader is, all the cross parties are being advised by the same people and everyone is doing their best. To think otherwise is clearly not very rational. I understood Boris's advice yesterday and his team who gave a clear understanding of what we should be doing and why we are being told what to do and when. If people are taking more information from outside sources, we could end up in a worse mess..... because nobody knows !

It was only a matter of time before a virus or bacteria or other organism caused us problems. Our previous tribal safeguards have been broken, these are what protected us from plagues and more in the past. We may have had some really bad diseases in the past but it would have remained very localised.

Look at the number of trees that have problems and they have much more robust immune systems than us. Again our globalism hasn't helped them either, we have done our damnedest to spread their infections around the globe.

Soap doesn't leave a barrier, it washes off with water. The demonstration could mislead people into think that soap physically repels viruses - its total nonsense, although it does help wash viruses off the skin. The function of soap is to dissolve greases on our skin, grease helps things stick to us. Soap's negative side affect is to wash away our natural acid coating which protects us from many bacteria, that is possibly why cuts on hands take longer to heal than other parts of the body.

A hand cream/emollient probably helps the virus stick to our skin, hand creams create a water barrier and soften by retaining the skins fluids, some have a lubricant in them to fool you into thinking your skin is softer straight away, its just slippier. Eitherway, the grease or lubricant will probably help retain the virus on our skin.

Our skin doesn't need protecting from CV with an additional barrier, its not considered an entry route but it can transfer from our hands to our mouths and noses.

I bought some Aleppo soap months ago. Made from olive oil and laurel and said to be anti-bacterial . Apart from the smell which is not too bad and nowhere near as bad as carbolic , and the look of it, it's a really nice lather up soap and gentle on the skin. Said to be anti-bacterial and good for various skin complaints. As I can't get any anti bacterial gel, I thought this would do instead .
Get it off ebay and it last quite a long time.

https://thetoiletzone.com/aleppo-soap-history-benefits-uses/

Think we will be going into lockdown soon, all other countries doing it can’t see how we can carry on , dread it though but if it’s got to be done so be it.

Yes, probably right ,Cools. I'm not arsed to be honest. I might go stark staring bonkers,(not too far off anyway) but probably I won't be on my own. If anything that each and everyone of us can do to help another , we should , as we owe it to each other.

Referring to the above video, it was shown last night on BBC as an educational video for children in the present climate.

It's the darned stockpiling that's really annoying me. Some greedy people out there and some virtually starving whilst they wait ! It shows how selfish and thoughtless human nature actually is.

Gibraltar is only a little population, I really hope they don't get hit.

Anti-bacterial soap is a con, its exactly what it says on the can, its soap with effectively a preservative in it which protects the soap. The antibacterial substances are nowhere near strong enough to disinfect your hands, certainly in the short time it is used. But I still buy it.

The countries most hit by the virus are (in order), Italy, Switzerland, Norway, Spain, Iran, Estonia, Denmark, South Korea, Quatar, Austria. We are way down the table in 29th position, China is 20th. Being an Island we are trailing behind in time but that will change.

Speaking to a friend today, he was so concerned about his wife's existing conditions and the risk of infecting her, he had forgotten that he also had a vulnerable condition. We normally meet once a week, we won't be doing that for a while.

A lot of self-employed people are suffering loss of income without any support from the Government. Businesses that have premises are getting financial support but those without aren't. Self-employed have had an enhancement to ESA but it is still considerably less than statutory sick pay for employees despite the amount of National Insurance (Class 2 and Class 4) the self-employed pay.

No one has replied to Muzzy. Sorry.

I hope nobody on wiki contracts it, but if it should happen, I doubt they will feel well enough to be bothered about giving a review. Depending on the severity, I think DD suggested people should be better taking more exercise rather than resting. I can say with experience that if you are ill and can't breathe, there is no way anyone will be taking exercise. It's one of the most distressing things to suffer, add to that a temperature and exhaustion ( from not being able to breath) , probably not going anywhere too soon .

NB to Gibbo. Thank you for the link . Interesting info.

No need for hand gel just wash your hands for two minutes and for people coughing into Crook of the arm please remember that you need to wash your top ASAP and not leave it until wash day. Now that schools are to close we need to wash every time you touch a door or work top, just think everywhere someone hand has been can carry the virus

All job centres to close for 3 months from today

All pubs , restaurants, gyms etc told to close. I’m glad he’s paying most if wages for people forced to stay home, it was a big worry ..

Wirral Council have hinted that if bin collections are hit by staff absence they will stop collecting grey bins first as they aren't a health hazard.

Is this for the whole country or just London?
Report in the Sun says across the capital and another states London.

Well, they may go on strike anyway!

According to Wirral Globe website it's Wirral as well for closure of pubs, gyms, restaurants etc - though doing take-aways might be an option for some. At the same time, the binnies are being ballotted on strike action! You couldn't make it up... great timing, folks.

While I partially support the bin men's argument, it most certainly isn't the time for anything more than a nominal show of strength, if they start a prolonged strike they surely realise they will lose all public support and do themselves no favour.

LCR have lifted the 9:30am concessionary travel limit, this will enable pensioners etc to travel to get their shopping on the pensioners hour.

I just don’t understand why they are doing this ...I realise it’s to try and help because of all the panic buyers but to put all these high risk people together in quite a small space surely is madness! Think it would be better for them to have designated time and stuff delivered..

I've just been watching Aljazeera . 627 deaths in Italy today. They also reported that WHO are saying that a significant number of under 50's are being hospitalised, and children are also susceptible . So as time passes it is looking as if the original prognosis could have been wrong.

There is a worldometer.info/ coronavirus giving all the figures . I will try to post it, but it's not coming through on here as available for myself (don't know why.).

So if someone can repost it, it's a very eye opening chart.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

(No its not working for me on here).

There does seem to be conflicting accounts of the severity, some they say they have had it with mild symptoms and others struggling to breathe, and then we have the fatalities, it could be some have a stronger immunity system or there are varying degrees of infection, or those that believe they have had it may have mistaken their symptoms, but without testing to clarify everyone's in the dark about the true picture, but I do believe it is being played down a lot.

what you can and can't do

Thanks for that assassin.

Just logged into my Virgin media to check on things, and find they are still sending engineers out to install virgin cable and carry out repairs, our engineers will wear masks and gloves and and use hand gel and not stand too close, if you are self isolating you can cancel any visits, oh apparently they have been given training also, so much for not spreading the virus,calling on customer after customer in different locations on Wirral and North Wales it could be on clothing, shoes, tools, isn't Branson rich enough?

I thought about people such as plumbers, gas boiler repairs etc. More specifically Estate Agents and house sales. Nobody is about to welcome viewers of properties into their home for a long period of time and the volatile market indicates house prices cold drop . Still, estate agents have made a packet over the years. Time for change.

I see John Lewis are to close ALL their stores on Monday and they probably won't be the last. A huge swing to shopping online, which will more than likely become the norm after this, being the next step into a Futuristic 21st century. Masks, white suits, clinical sterilization of all buildings...no sex, I'm sure I saw a film just like that back in the 70's .

Oh Granny you make me laugh and that’s hard to do in these sad times...back to this bloody corona I really do wish that they would order a lockdown NOW!! Just seen on news people flocking to the seasides, caravans arcades etc...people won’t take this seriously until they get ordered to and there must be army personnel on streets to stop everyone and make sure their trip is essential. Gangs of kids today wandering around and people and I got to say it old people talking in groups , overheard one say “oh well if we get it we get it, not going to stay in”...I felt like saying something but bit my tongue..I’m not against the oldies here because I’m one and maybe I shouldn’t have been out but I did keep my distance but I know without being ordered we will go out...horrible times these but I just want us all to get through it and I soppose can’t say back to normal as will it ever be again. Stay safe folks...

I was in a CED Stone yesterday they had a barrier one metre in front of the counter to keep staff and customers away from each other, I think everybody thought it reasonable. Only problems was using the card machine (most purchases there are over £30) but staff were wearing gloves, I guess I should set up apple-pay, google-pay or something to do contactless sales greater than £30 using my phone.

I was thinking Logans Run, where they all twirl round on a carousel and off you pop, have mask and white suit will travel.

Poor simple minded Trump, he says ....



Medical world say

Just a thought.

, Casper. We could do with a few more funnies to keep us all in the normal world.


DD, Trump humour is pretty baffling. Not sure if he's serious or not, most of the time.

Lol

Bbc news is on now 1pm Sunday, they are saying Italy and Sweden are on lock down and no one is aloud out, then in the same breath they say "we'll go over to our reporter out on the streets of Italy and Sweden (face palm)

DD, I'm amazed Trump can even pronounce those words - wonder how long he had to practise? Like the Lego set, assassin! I do wonder about those reporters overseas; maybe they have special dispensation? Wouldn't fancy it myself though, I'd rather be at home with my family.

Seems like we have a fine week ahead; that's good in some ways, as it lifts the spirits, but it will encourage a lot of people to go out and risk being too close to others when they shouldn't be.

6 ambulances have tyres drilled WTF IS WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE

I echo your sentiments Assassin!! I hope they’re found and thrown in somewhere to rot!

Youv'e got to feel sorry for Philip Schofield, he's just come out, and now he's got to stay in.

Keep it up Casper we need a bit of a laugh....I can’t believe what I’m seeing on news , talk about falling on deaf ears!! Crowds out and about as if it were just another bank holiday! I was really hoping for a lockdown NOW because some people apparently think , it’s all fake news no pandemic!!!

Only in America lol

Get cracking !

Lots of non-food shops closing now, primark , the perfume shop and others, just saw McDonald’s closing as from 7 pm tomorrow night. Youngsters won’t like that but got too happen..

Wirral Council Coronavirus helpline 0151 666 5050

Wirral Chamber of Commerce helpline 0151 650 6982 (for businesses).

Age UK helpline 0116 299 2239 for over seventies.

Boris Johnson is to address the nation at 8.30 tonight this will replace tv show on bbc1 and itv

@cools
Thank you. Big impact here, gets worse hour by hour. Seems the younger gen. don't get it.
Social Distancing etc. A lot of closed restaurants now offering pick up or delivery.
Wash your hands everyone.

lockdown! About time , I’m glad and just hope they enforce it . Got too happen to give us a chance...

We are now on lock down

The staff probably got the first flight back home ! Overseas recruitment..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52014023

Prince Charles has it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52033845

Just to let people know if you're on benefits it will go up by £20 a week from the 6th of April this is for a year.

If your MOT is due after the 30th of March then there will be a 6 month exemption, if your MOT is due before that date then you must have it tested or declared SORN.

You are still responsible for maintaining your car in a roadworthy condition even if MOT exempt.

Numbers going up in this area and also a big jump in Liverpool from a few days ago. 57 L'pool , 16 Wirral. Hampshire is top of the list with 251 cases , and I'm wondering if this is affecting the RN, based in Portsmouth ,Hampshire.

Looking at that excell , Nightingale Hospital in London, 4 thousand beds , 2 mortuaries. God help us ! Listen yesterday to an ex astronaut being interviewed, he said “ he hopes this is not Mother Nature kicking back else we’re done. See how the pollution has gone down! Keep waking up hoping for a miracle , so hard to be optimistic about this horrendous situation but that’s all we can do.

If it's not Mother Nature, then it's Satan. More inclined to think it's Satan, but Mother Nature will win in the end with a message for us all (hopefully) .

Some kind person have just posted an envelope containing a red card and a green card about 6x4 along with a note explaining usage, display green card if all ok display red card if in need of assistance, a good idea and so very thoughtful, well done.

Police have created a rule that you are not allowed to take your car to go to a place to exercise.





Is this now becoming a police state?

Are you against that DD.? Have you seen the images if people in New Brighton , loads of people wandering along as if everything’s just normal! We’ve got a wave of deaths coming towards us and all you’re being asked is to stay at home , it’s damn hard I know and boring but if you have watched that programme tonight about the personal stories if the nhs staff having to face this bloody virus did that not get too you? Police state , army state bring it on , just do as you being told for gods sake!!

Sorry DD , sounds like I’m shouting at you there but feeling pretty despondent tonight and can’t understand why people can’t just follow the rules so that we have a fighting chance of getting through this...we’ve got to look at Italy because that’s what’s coming for us ..

Not sure about the police creating a new rule. Don't new rules have to be passed in law, and how with Parliament now in recess. ? An MP clearly said only yesterday that if getting exercise in a quiet location meant you needed to drive there, that was ok.
I also heard that New Brighton was teaming with people yesterday.
There's been a lot of traffic flying up and down my road today, much more than yesterday. I suppose supplies for the week have run out and it;s another supermarket dash for many, but so far as following speed limits , that seems to have gone to the wall !

It is far safer for me and other to drive to a quiet place for a walk rather than take a walk locally where everybody is walking.

People purposely going to relatively crowded places is the polar opposite to what I am saying and breaks other rules.

The only Government rule that approaches my topic is that it says to spend the minimum time outside of your house. But being inside your car is as safe as being inside your house and stop-start dodging of other walkers, shoppers, loiterers etc is hardly a fitness walk.

The Government has completely messed up with their rules, there are far too many uncertainties, if they had banned travelling to a place of exercise then fine, but they haven't stated that.

It now turns out that household tradesmen are being instructed to carry on as per normal for most of their customers but to only do emergencies for customers in isolation. Many self-employed people have already closed their businesses down on advice and information given before today but now they may have risked the financial support the Government is still fumbling over.

Well, I think they were hoping people could behave in a sensible fashion and not consider everyone as a fool . They got that wrong too.
Personally , I think they have achieved a lot in just about 10 days.. Considering all things that need negotiation, logistics, statistics, travel, orders, quantities, all of these things involve other people in other places and other businesses, to actually get it all together with information necessary, must be a task of mega proportions.

Trouble is DD , you do that , then joe Bloggs down the road follows suit then everyone do it . All driving into areas which quite frankly don’t want outside people coming to. Read today about a family all driving into Wales for the day , got turned back by the police. Wales don’t want people coming into them , everybody trying to keep it contained....I feel sorry for the government at the moment , think they’re trying their best in what is such a difficult and frightening situation.. they’re only human no matter how much you dislike them and having such responsibility must weigh heavy. I know they getting advised but still.. yes I do think they should be more clear on their instructions and definitely enforce stay at home, we should now be doing what Italy and Spain are doing ...

Maybe we should al be asking more questions about 'how'. This hasn't come from a bat.. no way. Spanish flu was another that they never found the source of. First known case was reported on a US military base !
I can't help thinking of the Skripal case too. Very convenient to blame Russia in the first few days, expel Russian diplomats from countries all over the world ... it tends to hide the possible truth, specifically when US had accused Russia of interfering in their elections. Why did the CIA want Skripal in the US ? What's the betting he's being interrogated now for something he knows nothing about. ( that could be fantasy)
I don't trust them one iota. All their tricks are basically coming to roost .

Going for a day out in Wales, Peak district etc is off limits just now, and should be, but I would have thought driving to the nearest reasonable park in your own area to take the dog for a good run (as only one a day is allowed) would be ok. If not, why did the council just waive parking fees at Wiral's country parks? On the one hand is common sense, on the other hand is seeing how far you can push it, which is daft and dangerous.

Speaking for my daughter's dog, a pavement walk in the neighbourhood wouldn't even blow the froth off the top; a good run in Royden Park or on the beach would do it.

Well all carry on then....ive just watched a video of a Spanish doctor in Madrid crying because they now are having to take respirators from the over 65s and sedate them and leave them to die, alone. They are so overwhelmed with patients they have to make the decision to try and save the young.

Its worth reading this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-facts.html

Things to remember about viruses

Their tiny size (even though CV is one of the larger ones), the largest virus is roughly the same size as the smallest bacteria, billions on a pinhead etc

Their sheer numbers, they replicate in huge numbers, an infected person can have many millions or billions.

Their high replication means even with a low mutation rate, mutations are common. The larger the virus, the bigger the mutation rate, there is more to go "wrong".

BUT it only takes one single virus to infect a person.

My deepest wishes go to Boris!

Boris has it

And Government announcing even deeper austerity cuts in the future.

New CV information site from Wirral Council https://www.wirralinfobank.co.uk/

Really good to see the authorities heading their own advice, the irony of some is overwhelming.

Prime Minister - Boris Johnson
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care - Matt Hancock
Chief Medical Officer for England - Chris Witty
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Mental Health, Suicide Prevention and Patient Safety - Nadine Dorries
Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport - Oliver Dowden

Any more?

Don't be sarcastic , DD. This is far more serious than that . They could have had it for a couple of weeks, and plus when we see the cases in all the London Boroughs, I imagine it's getting pretty tricky to avoid .

100 cases in Liverpool this am and Wirral increased to 32. Those figures are now increasing rapidly. Over 1000 cases throughout Merseyside, it was said last night, and we haven't even started !

Not know if this is real or you're trolling

If Johnson self isolated from day one you would of said he needs to be out and about, I'm not a fan of Johnson but I would have him over corbin any day, I think myself that they are doing good, don't know what more they can do in these times, you always pull the government down if you find it so bad why not put your name down as a mp and see how you could do a better job, he is ill but instead of staying in bed he is working to help the rest us, please tell us what they should of done or what they are doing wrong now as you seem to know.

Add Secretary of State for Scotland - Alister Jack

add to the mp list nhs workers, delivery drivers, shop assistants, , police, joe public..

So you think he is doing a good job, instead of listening to Dominic Cummings with his herd immunity and looking after the economy, oh what was it he said so what if it kills a few pensioners, they might have been better prepared in ordering ventilators and ppe instead of leaving it to the last minute, they are still loathe to lock down completely, so we still have on foot in the other out, and if his government hadn't neglected the NHS and other aspects of social service we would be better placed again, to little to late.

Will throw this into the mix. Always enjoy listening to Peter Hitchins but not sure what to make of this. Suggesting we have wrecked our country and economy by over reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e66-8_JXq6o

What a ridiculous argument Hitchens has, 20,000 die of flu therefore we shouldn't bother trying to prevent people dying of CV19 even though probably more are going to die of CV than flu.

Its like saying only ten people got crushed by a lamp post therefore we shouldn't bother trying to reduce road accidents.

The scale of CV19 in this country is unmeasured, we don't record how many people have coronavirus, we don't record how many have recovered and we aren't given the full figures for how many have died.

Is any other country any different ? I doubt it. It's not even possible to have an inkling of numbers in many countries.

This I found interesting, from last week. Maybe this is why Germany's death rate in comparison to the actual cases is very much lower than other European countries .

https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/...XC35m4TZGBVgdhZ8yTMKmSnvD-4qzDKeWMHkxKpE

The EU commission on Thursday (19 March) said it will set up a stockpile of face masks, intensive care equipment and other essential medical gear to tackle shortages in member states.

The move comes after EU countries at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak have faced shortages of crucial medical equipment.

then it goes on to say

EU countries have criticised each other after several member states, such as Germany, banned the export of medical supplies.

Germany's economy ministry said on Wednesday that export licenses for the export of protective equipment to Italy, Switzerland and Austria had been issued. The 400,000 protective masks sent form Germany has arrived to Italy on Thursday.
"Export bans within the EU undermine both the solidarity on which the EU should be based, as well as mechanisms like the civil protection mechanism," Lenarcic said, calling for the removal of such bans.

To help Europe cope, China has offered to send 2.2 million masks and 50,000 testing kits to the EU, commission president Ursula von der Leyen said on Wednesday.

The world was very much caught by surprise by the force and speed of this virus," EU commissioner for crisis management Janez Lenarcic told reporters.

Peter Hitchins has always been a bit of an odd ball.

Buy British !

Maybe the NESARA story is after all, not so much a conspiracy, more of a ' wish to come true' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NESARA

Germany and France banned medical exports before either were much infected - talk about shutting the door!

So there is a shortage of supplies now and so the EU is creating a stockpile??? Surely the creation of a stockpile will create a greater shortage?

UK CV deaths are only reported for those that die in hospital, there are a fair number of people dying at home. This is the case for some other countries as well, I can't remember which.

I've been out and about today in the car, pretty quiet, queues at some places, none in others.

New York State has got infection rates 60% higher than Italy or Spain and Trump still won't quarantine. One in four hundred people are now infected (0.25%) there.

yuk

Well, he's a cheery soul, isn't he?! All that is just another reason (among many, at the moment) to be glad I don't live in the US.

When it comes to the subject of a bunch of greedy people looking after number 1 , lying to the populous ... at the cost of peoples lives and health .... it's not about being cheery !!!! Wouldn't matter if you lived in England with a few thousand or Dubai with 100 million pounds ... if the air , food and water supply are making Earth almost uninhabitable !!!! I think the Fukushima disaster is still spewing nuclear waste into the Pacific and 5G frying away invisibly!

Rest in peace to Michael

Police really need to get their act together in parts of the country and the Government obviously need to clarify.

Cyclist fined for cycling on roadways in Richmond Park.

Convenience stores told not to sell Easter Eggs even if they are legitimately open and the Eggs are in stock.

Social distancing was pretty much out the window by many in Asda Bromborough today, queues at checkouts which didn't help. people walking down the centre of aisles instead of one side to allow others to pass.

There's one thing for sure that in the future, whoever the enemy might be, and the enemy can change as has been throughout the course of history, it's now proven that biological /chemical warfare could bring the world to it's knees.

As indeed nature has done numerous times in the past, just because we've had a relatively lucky run for the last 100 years doesn't mean we were impervious.

The way we live our lives is man made, and made for man.. We've gone too far, and don't know how to turn back. Simply heading towards a mammoth catastrophe, with hate and wars , famine and pestilence. cruelty and deaf ears.

Latest, Israel has demolishes a Palestinian Coronavirus Clinic. In Gaza 97% of water is undrinkable. I think that comes under 'cruelty and deaf ears' Nobody calls out for them. Why not ? If we want this virus beating, it has to be up to every country, not destroyed by another country, in the hope of destroying a race of people.

https://www.indcatholicnews.com/new...RjfbbblDuGhV-Kok-bhV9KdQ1XSzJ7bxBmWgt0Hk

Not forgetting Saudi are having a go at destroying Russia even at this critical time. This is our big chance to let bygones be bygones with Russia but have we got any decent diplomats to intervene?

When this comes to an end, if there is an end to it, the World leaders need to get hold of China and say this is how much you owe the World pay up now!
I read that the animal market over there is open again selling cats and dogs, so it all going to start again, i must make a call to the Mother-ship and go home!

If the disease was in the market then it was out there elsewhere, it was only a matter of time before it jumped to a human.

How can it be China's fault, they were blind-sided by nature, other countries had advanced warning and didn't manage to contain it except for South Korea who were the only country to listen to China.

It won't come to an end. It's here now just like flu, and until an effective vaccine is found it will continue. Experts are already talking about it returning next winter.

The Great Levelling Out.

My goodness, things are now beginning to crash. Could be the best thing for us. Globalisation knocked on the head, and begin our own industries and manufacturing again.
I fail to see how the EU as a whole will survive this.

The biblical meaning of 'free will' , has well and truly been taken from away us. Time for reflection on the meaning of life . We have found out we are not in control of anything when the unexpected raises it's head.
Scary but interesting times .

Interestingly, Japan has had very few cases and deaths considering they were one of the first countries to have a confirmed case.

There are a lot of stories that Japan is hiding the CV figures in an attempt to retain the Olympics go ahead. We shall find out in the next few weeks, you can only hide the figures for so long.

The EU (ie Germany) will learn lessons from Brexit and make the other countries highly financially dependent on the EU and face fiscal disaster/punishment should they leave.

It all depends whether Germany can hold its economy together, there were major cracks appearing before CV, if they think they need to disband the EU project for their own recovery they will.

Then France has suddenly got illusions of grandeur and believe they can take over Germany's leading position of the EU, considering France's economy is roughly the same as the UK's but less stable, they haven't got a hope in hell.

anyone actually believe the news item today that "new research shows germs spread by coughing sneezing may reach 6 to 8m from a person and therefore masks might be a good idea" Come on flu has been around decades even coronavirus in one form or another since the 1960s and they have only just decided to do research on how far germs can carry from one person to another. We are being controlled (which is not necessarily a bad thing) with drip fed information. Watched a panorama programme years ago following the tube bombings and they had a mock cobra emergency type meeting and the one thing that struck me was the bit about what narrative they should put out to the main stream media to "control" public reactions etc..
The Govt walking a tightrope between creating enough fear and panic to get us to abide by the guidelines and yet not cause too much panic that may result in civil unrest. I think some of the police actions designed for the same purpose..e.g the drone cams following walkers in Derbyshire and the recent one of fining a lady £700 under the new Cronoavirus powers for something which a few days earlier was legal (i.e.not having to give your name or other information to the Police). It doesnt necessarily change what is actually happening in the country. I had a quick look at NHS stats ,over last 4 years ,for the places where you are most likely to catch "normal" flu (not sure if it added and die from it) but it was roughly over 75%+ care homes, 10% hospital, 10% schools and 2% elsewhere.

Yes, I believe the distance, its been demonstrated many times in the past, the common colds unit alone did extensive studies and there have been many reports since. There is probably confusion between the spread of droplets, fine mist (aerosol) and the virus particles themselves without a host substance. A lack of understanding between scientists and politicians doesn't help, when the scientist says the virus is quite heavy and falls fast, this doesn't mean it drops at your feet, its not a lead cannonball (and yet we know how far they can travel!).

Masks do not make a lot of difference to a recipient, however they make a large difference as a infected donor because it reduces the release speed of particles.

Viruses are very small things, no mask is capable of blocking them, if one is sitting on your mask it has a chance of working its way through the mask over time as you breath - if you change your mask every few minutes it would help somewhat.

What hasn't been talked about in the UK is the aerosoling of faeces, just the act of flushing a toiling after an infected person uses it puts up a very fine aerosol which can contain the virus and spread it around. This was missed in the early days in China and is thought to have significantly contributed to the spread of the virus. Obviously there are other methods of aerosol occurring including flatulence.

Coronavirus: Little and Large comedian Eddie Large dies 'after contracting COVID-19 in hospital very sad new today

yes DD i believe the distance just that its not new research.. research would have been around for decades and used for a host of products, masks, clean room equipment, . Simple mask/visor can be made using a plastic sleeve you use in ring binders and a plastic hair band threaded through it.

With regard to distancing in general, it seems it's being very patchily adhered to. Supermarkets seem to vary widely in their adherence to distancing guidelines, spreading out queues, number of people allowed in etc. I was talking to someone who said that Asda Bromborough had every till open today, in defiance of distancing - Greasby Co-op only has two out of four operating - so much for protecting shoppers! Not impressed, Asda. I think a lot of how well it is observed is down to individual managers. I won't be going there. Come to that, I wouldn't go anyway, it's too far, but you take my point!

Sad news, again. However, he was not a well man.

Yes, agreed. Steer clear of the supermarkets if at all possible.

Talking to someone in Kent tonight, they were saying that the number of cars on the roads, and in the small towns has been staggeringly increasing in the last 24 hrs. People are obviously thinking they can get away with it, after being locked up for a week.

I am flabbergasted tonight to see France's death rate over the last 24 hrs......... 1,355

staff off sick ? should restrict numbers entering. My lad is assistant manager at a shop with 2 other staff and they limit it to 2 people at a time with the door locked but still getting people just wanting to browse and buy nothing

Browsing is a difficult one. For people, particularly those alone, who've been used to popping into the shops more or less daily for a bit of company and a few odds and ends, it must be distressing to be so limited - as it is for so many! Maybe they're clinging to that habit, not realising how difficult it makes things for others.

Strange about Asda in Bromborough having all the tills manned, in Birkenhead they are on every other one , you would think a big company would have the same rules in place .

news The shocker for me .... is that the powerful and rich are still breathing

The Express newspaper has just reported that 5g ( which first was trialled in Wuhan) and Coronavirus both feature on the new 20 pound note .... shaking my damned head

Why a shocker ? Explain what you mean, because if it's what I think you mean , then yours is a ridiculous attitude. What denotes 'rich'. Doctors , Scientists , Teachers, MP's ?

Yes, you'd think so, missmahjong; maybe managers need to be monitored more closely to make sure they comply.

Maybe the rich in your eyes have big houses so don't feel locked in, have a floor in the house just for a gym and got the money to fly in food so don't need to go out and the nanny will have the kids, I'm rich I have a family that I love and they love me I feel that's all you need at the end of the day.

mr mayor

too kind covered in Covid .... pure evil

Why a shocker .... because there are people dying !!

News my opinion may be ridiculous but this lady flew away with her kids to escape a rich , powerful , still breathing man

https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3104&context=historical

I suppose these people mentioned above are still breathing and being all powerful ... lol

Queen Elizabeth to address nation on April 5 at 8pm over coronavirus pandemic

A Merseyside man was jailed for six months today for spitting and coughing at a hospital nurse.

David Newton attacked the nurse as she tried to monitor his heart rate in the emergency unit at Arrowe Park Hospital, Wirral.

The staff nurse had just come back from her break at 1.15am, on April 2, and was asked to monitor the heart rate of a man calling himself Michael Collins who was in the waiting area.

She called that name and he came into the cubicle and appeared calm but the nurse could smell alcohol on him.

However, once in the cubicle the 50-year-old then started to throw himself around the trolley, which made it difficult to connect the device to monitor his heart, and then he started to cough and spit at her.

Newton was asked to stop, but instead he kicked out and began to swear.

The Liscard man, who also said he was a drug addict, then jumped off the trolley, kicked chairs and a bin, and coughed and spat in the nurse's direction.

Police were called at around 1.15am and Newton was led away to custody.

Today, his case was fast-tracked at Wirral Magistrates Court and he was sentenced to six months in jail, and ordered to pay £300 compensation.

Newton admitted assaulting an emergency worker. From Granada Reports

Maybe you should have used the word 'corrupt' rather than 'rich' . The corrupt hugely lack compassion for anyone but themselves and their greed by defrauding others. Don't let them get to you, be at peace with yourself, and know you try to carry no guilt. The majority of people are good and as is now being shown , very caring for each other.
The 'rich' are contributing much to this present cause, and without them to bolster certain areas of need, we as a country would at this moment in time be a lot poorer.
Leave the crooks behind you and let them wallow is their own mess.

Just hoping that the bad guys stop with their silliness as it makes the world almost unbearable at times.

Is the BBC fear mongering or telling it like it is. I am confused (and scared).

With clowns in charge we should be scared, a week ago UK government promised they had ordered 3.5 million home testing kits - they haven't ordered them yet, they haven't even decided which one to order or whether they want to test for the disease or test for immunity or both.

China has tamed its progression by sticking guns in people's faces - but its not over, the disease is still around and there are a lot of people not immune to it, it could escalate very fast.

I suspect over the next few days the death rate in America will start the big climb (two weeks after the cases started escalating), the scale of that will soon be unprecedented. I believe that will trigger a complete re-think to many countries.

UK promised a new measuring system to include deaths outside hospital and to state recoveries, this hasn't gone mainstream yet. In the mean time we have a false sense of security with overstated current infections and understated deaths - these give a conveniently low index for the Government to feel smug about - but its not reality.

Claims that many in the UK were infected early without symptoms is guesswork/propaganda. While this can be demonstrated by manipulation of the infection rates, the death rates don't tally with that theory unless the UK strain of CV has a strange behaviour compared to the earlier strains elsewhere but later data seems to say otherwise. The commonest strain in the UK might have originated as a mutation in the UK from the sketchy information we have to date.

I have no idea what Canada's progression has been like nor what actions they are taking. As they were relatively late to the game lets hope they have had time to learn lessons from others, especially their southern neighbours.

They have already ordered 3.5 million testing kits and will be rolled out once the efficiency has been assured. Public Health England have said they will test some kits in the laboratories. So nothing happens overnight, and not much point in having testing kits if they aren't efficient.
So from the time of ordering (25 th March) to despatch, to delivery, to testing... maybe these people should be working 24 hrs a day instead of 18 hrs a day ?? Would that make people happier or would it be criticized because they are working too hard ? Looks like a no win situation !

Can't understand why the Government would want to feel smug. I would have thought the greater the numbers released, the more fear put into the people to keep them at home.

Canada is making moves for medical supplies probably at around the same time as UK Government did with regard to numbers of cases and ordering necessary kits, so to constantly berate a situation of which is constantly under high pressure at the moment, is in my opinion unfair considering so many companies have turned their production into making equipment. The whole world needs these supplies, worst hit countries I assume would be at the top of the list, and maybe UK aren't first in the queue !

From the news yesterday, Trump has said he's not going to supply Canada with medical exports. I'm sure Snowshoes knows about this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-52161402/trudeau-mistake-to-block-us-medical-exports-to-canada?intlink_from_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fus_and_canada&link_location=live-reporting-map

Noted that Labour leader still can't get off his 'activist' platform. NOTHING would ever please that grumpy old fart, but I will say that Yvette Cooper spoke well the other night.

The story and excuses changed day by day indicating they are/were covering up.

Is it one supplier or multiple suppliers? That changes.

Are the ones that arrived contaminated or where ones delivered to other countries contaminated? That changed.

Are they virus test kits or immunity test kits? That changed.

A lot of things changed AFTER they claimed to have PURCHASED! (they used the word "purchased" not "ordered")

Did they really purchase BEFORE they were known to be effective? That wouldn't make sense.

Why were the different UK manufactures not used as the suppliers, they are exporting to other countries. That doesn't make sense.

Other countries have been using test kits extensively for weeks, have these not already been peer tested?



The Labour Leader is younger than you or I, how can the Leader of the Opposition not take an "activist" role, they are not in power?

The UK Government buried its head in the sand for weeks, South Korea despite having less time didn't. Look at the difference in outcomes.

Apparently it was Pubic Health England who instructed the Government.

You ask a lot of questions there DD. so I assume you don't have the answers and none of us do , we can only surmise.

Watching al Jazeera earlier, Spain made an order for medical equipment from China. China dropped it off for transfer in Ankara. Turkey won't release it as they want to hold onto it in case they need the supplies.
US won't lift sanctions on Iran and Syria, so that they can access the European banks to get much needed funding for supplies.
With all this confusion, this pandemic will not be cleared for at least another 6 months or much longer. The world should be working together, Russia has flown supplies into Europe, China has flown supplies into other countries, Germany and US want to hold on to theirs , Spain can't get theirs, our are lost in the pipeline ... how many more ? Africa hasn't even been given a wink or a nod yet !

Yes, Trump has told 3m not to ship medical supplies to Canada, It's becoming quite
an issue here. Mainly N95 masks. Some of the material in those masks are produced here in Canada. Trudeau said this AM that millions of them are to arrive in the next few days
from China.
Donny better be careful. 2000 nurses who live in Windsor Ont. travel over the border
every day to work in hospitals in Detroit Mich.

Trudeau is probably one of the most decent leaders in the world today, I do hope his hand is not forced into playing the same game as Trump but Donald might reap what he sows.

must be an awful lot of doctors, nurses, registrars ,clerks all around the country involved in the conspiracy theory of fiddling the numbers of deaths.

How? They might know the rough numbers for their own hospital, they would not know the numbers for all the hospitals that are added together.

If I told you there are 23000 packets of toilet rolls on shop shelves at the moment. You couldn’t say if that is true or false by looking in your local supermarkets.

Dear me, how can a Government continue to support Al Qaeda affiliates that are based all over Idlib and infiltrated with terrorists ISIS and Muslim Brotherhood . DO they support the killing and persecuting Christians in the Christian villages , the burning of churches , forcing the villagers to run, same ones as those who try to make their way across the Greek border to Europe. Are they happy with supporting such things ? Probably, as BBC are about to be all inclusive and have Islamic Prayers of the local radio stations every morning . We can bend so far back almost horizontally for some , to make a statement, but always forget those who truly suffer.

Yesterday :

Britain offers $100 million more to al-Q'da dominated Idleb Province, 'to help with Coronavirus threat', but nothing to the rest of Syria where Covid19 has arrived and tens of millions of innocents are suffering the consequences of international sanctions... This partial 'assistance' and failure to lift sanctions will only prolong the suffering of millions and hinder efforts to progress peace... sadly it gets harder to believe that that is not the deliberate intention.

Today:

probably through the beloved 'White Helmets' who are embedded exclusively with al-Q'da linked groups and who have nothing to do with the vast majority of Syrians and no connection with Syrian welfare agencies or bodies.
++
Maybe you can respond to the author and let him know, he is on the wrong side of history. That Britain is supporting radical ISIS atrocities against Syrian civilians.
++

I and others have regularly informed the British government of these facts, of which the British government and foreign office are well aware. That information is ignored.
++

I have emailed some UK Parliamentarians about this, and a formal question to Parliament on the matter is being considered.

Oh, and I've seen a ' selfie ' this am of a group of nursing staff in a Liverpool hospital with the full protective coverings, giving the thumbs up sign.

Arrowe Park Hospital got a massive delivery of face masks yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

As of last night, Wirral has 147 confirmed cases out of a population of over 323,000. That's approx 0.046% of our population.

The majority of those will survive. Realistically, you have more chance of catching flu or a cold.

Cases are still increasing though. It hasn't peaked yet. Stay safe but don't worry too much.

While that is partially true, it is highly misleading, we do NOT record the number of coronavirus cases in the UK, if you have coronavirus you do not report it, the guidelines clearly say not to phone 111 nor your doctor unless your symptoms are so severe your life is in danger. Basically we have only been reporting the number of hospitalised cases so far.

In reality 50% of the Wirral might have or have had coronavirus but do you want to be responsible for it infecting a high risk person, or a whole nursing home?

CV is roughly three times more infectious than flu, that is why it has spread so fast. Coronavirus has already killed three times more people in the UK than flu did last winter and we have a long way to go yet.

Yes, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I'm not suggesting that anyone should risk infecting anyone else. We can only go by official figures. Everything else is speculation.

The UK has a population of 65.64 million and so far, there have been 47,806 CONFIRMED cases. That's currently approx 0.073% of the population. It's interesting how some of the deaths are being reported as "person x died WITH Coronovirus" rather than "person x died OF Coronovirus". This suggests that it may or may not have been a contributing factor in those deaths.

I say the safest thing is to maintain social distancing and hand washing. It's not over yet.

Coronavirus leads to pneumonia (because of build up of fluid and debris in the lungs) or I should imagine heart failure because of fever. No doubt it can create numerous other complications. I believe most deaths are a shortage of oxygen one way or another, the lungs aren't allowing the passage of oxygen due to either the amount of physical damage or flooding, in Italy they put a pressurised hood over the patients heads to literally force oxygen through the lung walls - its all about partial pressures.

There is always an ongoing discussion about how deaths are recorded, if you have a heart attack after a car accident, what killed you? Blunt force trauma or heart failure? Most deaths are complex with one problem leading to another, there is no finite answer to how they should be recorded. If an underlying cause such as CV triggers other factors then the cause of death should include CV as a contributory factor, if CV aggravates another factor then its not so clear cut - eg supposing an old person with pneumonia, asthma and a dodgy ticker catches CV.

No doubt there are coding structures but there will still be a lot of judgement involved.

Boris has been hospitalised, I doubt it will be NHS Nightingale.

Does it matter DD! Give the man a break!

I thought it does matter that our Prime Minister has been admitted to hospital.

It also matters that he did sod all for 8 weeks when he should have been replenishing stocks of PPE.

Carrie Symonds has also been diagnosed with this virus. That's very worrying with her being pregnant.

As of tonight, Wirral now has 168 confirmed cases; an increase of 21 from yesterday.

This is very interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

Looking at the RH chart, measles at the top has an R0 of 12-18. This is why it's important for kids to have the MMR jab.
By comparison, COVID 19 has an R0 of 1.4-3.9 putting it lower than the common cold but higher than flu.

Wouldn't that of been the health minister job dd not johnsons

On major matters the decision maker is the Prime Minister, it was the PM who dictated our approach to CV against WHO recommendations, it became very clear he only read the first paragraph on herd immunity and didn't check the detail.

Interesting that the BBC4 pandemic program only used an R0 of 1.8, whilst CV has a wide range the accepted average at the moment is mostly 2.2 but some countries are using values around 3. But even at R0=1.8 it was a devastating outcome with 66% infected and over 800,000 deaths using a 2% mortality rate over a period of 3 months.

In the program it states about the policy of slowing down the virus, what happened between 2017 and 2020?

Meanwhile in America .... Dr Charles Lieber , Head of Harvard blah blah ...... has been arrested on suspicion of manufacture and distribution of a bio weapon etc etc ! Things people do for money

No, he hasn't been charged with anything to do with biology (he isn't a biologist, he is nano-materials), he has been charged with failing to disclose his financial links, it is an administrative crime.

Yeah ok whatever dd

Here is the DOJ rap sheet, notice the word "separate", the three cases are nothing to do with each other, they just happened to be charged at the same time. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harv...als-charged-three-separate-china-related

Boris Johnson symptoms have worsen, please refrain from name calling, or sagging off at this time, think what you would say to your grandparents at this time

Sad to hear he is in intensive care, I wish him well.

Yes, really worrying . I think they are being careful with the information and so they should be. I feel sorry for Carrie too, she must be going through it.
Wishes for a speedy recovery .

Yes, very worrying. Wishing him and Carrie a speedy recovery.

Compare our projections to other countries, the last graph scary.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

Data collated by the University of Washington. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty and speculation in those graphs and given the way the US has reacted to the crisis generally so far, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. I'll stick to gov.uk I think. Too much dwelling on possibilities would certainly lead to loss of sleep!

Here in New Brighton today on my 2 minute walk to the local shop for milk I must have seen 50 people acting like there is nothing going on !! maybe their sunglasses will protect them ?!

Sods Law not been out for 3 weeks had food delivered yesterday, woke up today with a dry cough and banging head ache my temperature is 103.1F 39.5C rang 111 who said self isolate, for 14 days to 3 weeks, feeling like s hit I'm off to bed don't think I'll be on here much as I'm trying to get better x

Hope you feel better soon. Do as they say.

Hang in there, Assassin!

Get well soon Assassin...

Gosh, where you picked that up from ? Wishing you well again asap.

Am I reading this correctly ?

Coronavirus: Greater Manchester Police warning after 660 parties shut down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688

Simple punishment for them, they can clean the floors in the new field hospitals we are building.

Another reason we shouldn’t legalise drugs.

For your sake, let’s hope you wake up tomorrow perfectly fine and this was a false alarm. Stranger things have happened,

I've also just seen on the BBC headlines that two men arrested , licking their hands and smearing all the fruit veg and freezer handles in a supermarket, a Sainsbury's in Morecambe...what the hell goes through their minds , in some countries they'd be shot on the spot! Hope they get locked in a cell and key thrown away!

If the police want to completely alienate themselves from the public they are going about it the best way. I hope this story is made up or greatly elaborated by the newspaper. Hopefully Nick Adderley will get a slap over the back of the head if he doesn't withdraw from this statement.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...olleys-searched-police-lockdown-18067736

Again its partly the Government's fault, in times of crisis their instructions should be crystal clear.

It was also stated by at least one minister that if you go shopping there is nothing wrong with buying whatever else is in stock at the same time. Additionally the Government has stated the sale of alcohol is permitted which would indicate the opposite of what Nick Adderley is saying.

Lunchtime news North West , indicated that Merseyside police will be stopping and asking drivers of their intentions about this weekend.

I have no problem with that, it is sensible, proportionate, not threatening and not invading your privacy.

That's fair enough. The idea of searching trolleys is a bit extreme, unless they're trying to stop people buying a partysworth of alcohol or something and nip such events in the bud - I'd have thought they'd have enough on their plate without that, if the stats on number of gatherings in Greater Manchester already reported is anything to go by. What planet are these partygoers on, FFS?!*

Here he is, media was exaggerating a bit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000h3nm/horizon-2020-coronavirus-special-part-1

Very informative programme from last night.

Proper empirical scientific stuff. None of your 5G conspiracy theorist crap.

Thanks for the tip - will catch it on iplayer. I see in the Radio Times that there's a second part coming up, too.

How many times have I heard "don't blame the Government", well I do, after all this is over there needs to be a public inquiry over the whole mismanagement of this crisis.

Despite having much more warning time than Italy, we have managed to achieve worst stats, 980 deaths in one day which is more than Italy or Spain had at their peak. And we aren't at our peak yet.

The Government was totally ill-prepared and acted far to late on everything they did. Yet again the Tories have caused significant numbers of people to die.

May they rot in hell!

Mistakes will not be forgotten and they will not be forgiven. All their 'long-term under-funding of Police, NHS, Social care etc' chickens will be coming home to roost.

The trouble is they will be forgotten, Matt Hancock on the news trying to blag his way out of the PPE crisis, blaming logistical problems the alleged millions of sets of PPE ready to roll, lets look at weight and volume for transportation, masks, gloves, aprons, it doesn't take a genius to work out, I remember being on the reserve list when the Falklands was on and extra vehicles were available from TA units and TA drivers to run stuff to Southhampton if they are that short, and to top that he is basically saying re - use some of the ppe stuff, if that doesn't stink of shortage what does? in the meantime those in need are left to there own devices, criminal that's all I can say, If it was a company the HSE would have stepped in, serious and imminent danger i.e the possible loss of life.

Yes and i blame the government, they had plenty of time to get this sorted, and sick and tied of hearing "Protect the NHS!" so there asking us because they can't do it! when you think of the Billions that gets pumped into the NHS and the number of deaths this country is having compared to Spain and Italy and they don't have an NHS, is appalling!
My neighbour works in an ambulance station and they can't get hold of PPE for crews who have to transport people with COVID 19, because the NHS won't release it.
I think back to a story i read at the end of November last year about a new kind of flu someone had caught in Thailand and thought that if that starts spreading the Worlds in for a heap of trouble?

Yes they do.

Spain has the 7th best healthcare system in the World "Sistema Nacional de Salud" SND

Italy has the 2nd best healthcare system in the World "Servizio Sanitario Nazionale" SSN

Just watched Pritti Patel, supposed apology, more like a disgusting display of indifference, also denying that any of the deaths of NHS staff are due to the shortage of PPE, a death toll of nearly 10,000 and god knows how many more, heartbreaking.

In Romania ten babies got infected in a maternity ward, caught from the staff who didn't wear masks (parents were tested clear). And now we have Matt Hancock dictating where NHS staff MUST NOT wear PPE, even the whole of Monty Python's satire couldn't get close to this.

And still the mainstream media are not holding the Government to account, more space given to Boris's recovery than the 10,000 deaths so far.

It is very very late but the Government could pull their finger out to limit even more unnecessary deaths.

Not sure what angle this is coming from. Yes, medical staff and nursing staff have fallen to this virus, which is very sad . On the other side the 10,000 deaths are not resulting from NHS staff not having the correct PPE.
It's not possible to issue everyone in the country with masks but w could make them ourselves if we want them. The public as you know, have been remiss in following guidelines , which has undoubtedly contributed to the high figures.
We also had the issue of China putting a ban on exports of PPE in March, which is where we had placed our orders (or some of them) . WHO have also been remiss in their guidelines, the orders we got for PPE from Europe arrived by sea into Liverpool because they could not come across land. That was another hold up and how long does it take to get supplies to fill 3,500 containers to be shipped from various countries in the EU.
Once arrived in the UK, contents of 3,500 containers had to be unloaded, passed by customs, collected by transporting companies, despatched to suppliers, stocks checked and counted, and then by transport companies delivered to the NHS for delivery. Then sent to all the hospitals, prisons , care homes throughout the UK.
How long do you think all that takes ?

10,000 deaths are not the result of lack of PPE.

You can't make effective masks yourself, an N95 mask is difficult to make without specialist materials, a IIR rated mask even more so. Italy was using respirators, I doubt if the NHS even has staff respirators in any noticeable numbers.

Without loads of aprons the cross contamination rates increase.

Without sufficient PPE less staff can be used, many people with CV weren't even tested, the hospitals sent them home.

What happened to our national reserves of emergency equipment, they know the annual flu can have epidemics.

There are more facts coming out. Some deaths are partly being caused by improper use of ventilators because most hospitals don't have a fully trained specialist and there has been too little research into the use of ventilators.

BCG is very effective in reducing CV rates but we stopped routinely giving that in 2005 and it starts wearing off after 15 years. We should be ramping up the production of the BCG vaccine as a backup plan.

Substantial numbers of the 10,000 deaths were caused by the slowness of the Government to react in a sensible manner. We had much more time than many other countries to prepare ourselves but Boris thought that waving his tongue would frighten the virus away.

The UK totally ignored WHO's recommendations both before and after the start of CV, you can't reverse blame on WHO. The Government even ignored its own recommendations let alone anybody else's.

The NHS is often called the most efficient health service in the world, that is because of what it achieves with so little money compared to other countries. Much of it is now contracted out so when you take into account the profits also being taken away by private companies then it has even less funds being used for health care.

But how long do you consider the whole process from ordering to front line would it take ?.

....and I have also heard from two different sources and to different places that 'stuff' has been going missing ( and sold on in one of them ) !!

The other has had to put everything under lock and key !

If we had national reserves like we had for many years, that wouldn't be so critical.

Knowing we didn't have national reserves available the orders should have gone in at the end of January latest, the disease had spread to the UK by then and they knew how fast it had blown up in China despite China being more prepared and practised than us.

I have just been discussing elsewhere, against current disinformation, Shanghai and Beijing were infected very early, like before China had five known deaths, but China contained it very fast.

The UK is the worst performing nation with Belgium being just behind us. 12.5% of registered cases have died in the UK. NHS Nightingale was predicting that around 80% of cases moved there would die.

While we are on NHS Nightingale,this is only a 500 bed hospital not the 5000 beds in 9 days the Government boasted, I find it hard to believe it has the 500 ventilators in place, it was stated every bed would have a ventilator.

Liverpool is also about to start on a 500 bed hospital, using the same factor i guess stage one will be 50 beds.

You still haven't answered my question .

No country was prepared and if you believe China has sorted it, then I'm a monkey.. Same with various other countries , but saying that, we know many of the ME countries wear their hijabs , so maybe that is protecting them... i.e. against other recommendations . They haven't even got soap in half the towns and villages of these countries.

•If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
•Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
•Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
•If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...ice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

The fact that nobody anywhere, like throughout the world, can get their hands on masks, or hand gel is quite odd. Someone will be making them, as they are the gel in Birkenhead ! Maybe this is a transition period and we'll all be wearing hijabs soon. We can get them online !


Well I reckon we can make our own, washable masks.

Why are you asking that question? You know there is no "correct answer" and any answer I give is irrelevant.

The equipment should have been stockpiled before any emergency crops up. As soon as it was clear the disease was going Global the Government should of ordered large amounts of equipment , not just PPE but also ventilators etc, the nature of the disease was well known. Some of it should have been flown here because of the shortages, not delivered by boat.

APH got 300,000 masks delivered the other day, there can't be that much of a shortage if one single hospital (minor trust) gets that massive quantity delivered in one day.

33 million pieces of PPE were delivered to the NHS on the 8th April. Yet in days prior to this NHS workers with coronavirus patients were using jury-rigged untested equipment, some nurses were using cheap dust masks and wearing bin bags. Why wasn't some of the equipment flown in? At the same time we have a significant number of RAF transport (C17s, C130s) aircraft flying round in circles above the UK doing non-functional exercises and taking advantage of the relatively quiet airspace and civilian airports.

I am also amazed the our NHS trust appear to have been given one third of the whole consignment of masks, that just doesn't ring true especially as our Trust is not even classed as an "Acute Trust" but the Government have been sneaky there. Coronavirus was downgraded from high risk to medium risk, this means it doesn't have to be treated at an acute trust, this also means that hospitals not set up for this level of acute care nor having the expertise are being used with no priority of sending patients to acute trusts.

I am talking about PPE and other equipment for use in the NHS coronavirus areas not for use by the general public that your link refers to.

The Government's own advice is for NHS acute CV areas are to use respirators, I can't recall seeing one respirator in use by staff on the various videos of CV wards in the UK. I have seen valved masks which are sometimes called respirator masks. A respirator has forced filtered air to maintain a positive air pressure at all times, other countries are using them. But of course the Government has covered its backside by downgrading CV from high to medium so there is no requirement for it to be classed as acute care even though it blatantly is.

Hospitals were struggling last year in one of the mildest flu and d&v seasons we have had for a long time - that is because of serious underfunding and mismanagement by the Government.

China was prepared, look at their statistics compared to ours (0.0002% died to our 0.0145% - we are seventy two times greater and we haven't hit peak yet . China stopped the spread in most places apart from Wuhen area, this might not be the best strategy but it shows they had the capability, we haven't got the ability to partly control it let alone stop it.

South Korea was prepared as were other countries like Japan and Taiwan who were amongst the first countries to get infected, long before us.

In 2008/9 that we had 14,000 deaths attributed to flu, we need to be prepared, even using a capitalist model the investment required in the NHS is a pittance compared to the cost to the economy of not being prepared, many of the costs are one off and have little ongoing costs.

Then there are the numerous companies that produce this equipment in the UK that have not been approached. David Humpston (ex Dragons Den) produces 1000 face shields a day for pharmacies and care homes, he hasn't been approached. At least four UK ventilator manufacturers weren't approached even after the Government got into a very late panic and asked JCB etc to manufacture. Has the Government never heard of the internet or trade directories?

We had a phone call yesterday saying someone we knew had passed away in APH with covid 19, had been in hospital over a week with another medical problem not associated with covid, the question is where was she contaminated, because without testing the source is unclear, and remains a viable threat to others.

Covid 19 is in the hospitals, same as any other virus. How any nurses, cleaners, cooks, admin, etc. etc. travel to and from work by public transport ? It could go in to the hospitals on their coats or gloves .
We are following the same pattern as the other countries.

If one person is infected, how long before symptoms show ? Up to two weeks and beyond. In those two weeks, how many have those people infected which might not show up for two weeks ? So already we have got a month further on and contamination in hospitals could easily have been there from the beginning. Not every nook and cranny will be cleansed in any hospital and it could be all over the hospital, not just a specific isolation ward.

As a world, we have f**** d up and now it's come back to bite us on the bum.

March 18th 2020.. Advice from WHO.. we are now 4 weeks on and we will still be feeling the affects of that advice .

Basic protective measures against the new coronavirus

Stay aware of the latest information on the COVID-19 outbreak, available on the WHO website and through your national and local public health authority. Most people who become infected experience mild illness and recover, but it can be more severe for others. Take care of your health and protect others by doing the following:

Maintain social distancing

Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

So they gave that BAD advice too !!

Highlighted things in RED so that people don't think it's up to date advice.

@ DD have you seen the spraying those countries you mention have done within the cities ? The whole of Wuhan was drowend in disinfectant. They have cities , big cities. We have a different spread of population to those countries in Asia.
We don't know how many people in the countryside in China etc are infected , because they won't even be hospitalised or counted.
We are certainly not getting the true figures from Iran or Syria they are begging for relief on sanctions so they can get much needed medicine , but sanctions are NOT being lifted. How cruel is that ? Gaza and Palestine two more we shall hear little about.

Live by the sword die by the sword !

It was mentioned on a programme the other day that Germany have a different way of producing their figures, and you yourself have on at least once occasion said that ours and others data is inaccurate.

I also believe their is a lot of skullduggery going on. When Spain ordered from China, which was being despatch via Ankara , Turkey would not release it to Spain for whatever reasons. That held up Spain's preventative operation. Oddly enough, Turkey have this last week supplied UK . Now where did they get their supplies from ?

With regard to supplies arriving by sea ( 3,500 containers would be a difficult send by air) to the UK and being despatched to the final point of need, I would say 3,500 containers is likely to take at least 2 weeks but nearer to 3 weeks . I spent weeks in port with my husband when he was on the container ships and the cargo loading and unloading was nowhere near 3,500 units.

I don't want to get into the blame game , that will come later..When we do come through this hope the whole world has learnt lessons and now take notice of people who foresaw this. Watched Bill Gates being interviewed this morning and they showed a clip of him at a presentation warning that it's not a nuclear bomb we should fear but a virus, this was five years ago! We've seen all the warning and yet the whole world was not prepared for this , the speed and devastating effects and of course deaths.
I was shocked and sickened by the image of those coffins in New York being put in mass graves, like something from another era. America a big powerful country being rocked to the core by this so it doesn't matter where you live or which government in power if something like this happens , as humans we pretty weak and vulnerable and in the great scheme of things defenceless if world wants to take us out!

We need to kick the Government into gear now, there are still many lives on the line - better late than never. Every single avoidable death is important even if we have been brain washed into accepting death as hyper-normality these days.

The UK being the 5th richest country is accepting charitable gestures from developing nations like Turkey which has a quarter of our wealth - how embarassing is that and a indictment of our piss poor governance.

They wont admit they have got it wrong DD, the blame will fall on someone or something else, the saying lions led by donkeys seems very apt at this time, if we are lucky enough to have a break through,Boris will be fit enough to take the bow, they have fallen down badly by not even supplying the basics for the protection of the front line.

Have i missed some news today? Has the lock down ended, only asking because as i look though my window, the amount of people walking about just looks like a normal Sunday, they all can't be going to the shops? saw a driving school picking a learner driver up, next door's neighbour taking their kids in to their nans for a bar-b-q in back garden, a lad giving his girlfriend a lift on his push bike, never mind the amount of cars on the road, as i looked at the figures a few hours ago, we are up to nearly 80,000 sick and close to 10,000 dead, i just don't get it, am i missing something somewhere, my friend phoned me up yesterday to see if i was ok and told me his ex wife had just come out of hospital and is recovering, she had Covid, her father also has it but sadly died, and a lot more will also looking though my window, madness!

Turkey may have sourced from its national reserve or from China.

Virgin Unite Foundation sourced 350,000 pieces PPE and other equipment in Shanghai, flew it to UK in a 787-9 and delivered it to the UK on the 3rd April. I believe most of it went to Guys Hospital.

I've seen the 3,500 containers quoted a number of times, I've not seen a source? It seems very excessive?

A few associated facts and figures.

One standard container (20ft) can hold about two million examination gloves, limited by weight not volume, in fact the container would be pretty empty.

Container ship trip from Shanghai to Liverpool is just over 20 days at normal cruising speed of 24 knots.

A C17(III) can carry 70 tonnes of cargo (three containers worth), would need to refuel two times (air-to-air or landing) but would take just one day.

A 787-9 used as a cargo plane can carry 52 tonnes of cargo (two and a half containers worth), presuming it does the journey in two hops ie one refuel. It could do it in one hop but I'd guess the payload would be down to under 20 tonnes

How long did it take you work that lot out ?

Did the container ship arrive from Shanghai ? Never said that on the BBC News Northwest when they told us on their live broadcast about the 3,500 containers arriving that day. That was one shipment, another shipment contained animal feed and grain.

Used to take 2 weeks UK to Panama, and 2 weeks Panama to New Zealand.

Can't sleep. Too much chocolate !

You think 3,500 containers are excessive ?

what do you think of Maersk Line, capacity up 23,756 TEU ?

This image was a record set in 2018 of 19,038 Mumbai Maersk.

For the journey I used http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-shanghai,china/port-of-liverpool,united-kingdom/ and the normal cruising speed of a container ship of 24 knots (that is probably faster than it used to be), I guess the canal would slow it down a bit with its 10knots speed limit and other faffing around.

The products delivered to APH were made in China, I doubt anywhere else would release a stockpile that big at the moment. I could trace the ship on ships AIS to find exactly where it came from and how long it took but cba.

I happened to have some packets of examination gloves to hand (out of date stock), a box of 200 weighed 2kg, a normal 20ft container takes 21 tons so just over two million gloves.

The volume of the 200 packet was 25cm X 13cm X 7cm = 0.002275m3. container volume is 39m3 so would take around 3.4 million gloves by volume ignoring packaging. Therefore weight was the limit.

Crow flies from Shanghai to Liverpool is 9,185 km, cruising range of C17 is 4,480 km at full load, cruising range of 787-9 is 14,140km at normal passenger load so guessed one refuel for full load. Max payloads were a straight lookup.

Didn't take long as I like numbers, probably about 10 minutes including some repeats due to not being able to read my scribbles (again!).

The reporter stated they had not been able to come by road from Europe. So I don't know where they were loaded from, but I am 100% he said Europe .

Also, with a cargo of only 3.500 containers it would definitely not have been a cost effective operation from China so had it carried more cargo, it would have taken a lot longer. Shipping companies are generally not in the business of making a massive loss, so bigger ships, more cargo, greater distance.

Just because a container is half empty of gloves, makes no difference. It has to go by weight. The mathematics involved in loading these ships is incredible. If they aren't loaded correctly, funnily enough, they can tip over ! Everything has to be charted, and positioned to be easily accessible for any other ports en route where cargo is to be despatched, and in many cases more loaded from those ports to be taken somewhere else en route for despatch . That's why the cargo plan of weight, even distribution and accessibility all come into play. They don't just sit on the deck either, they're down in the hold . Depending on the size of the ship there could be at least 6 or 7 tiers below deck .

Stowage of containers :

https://www.aimuedu.org/aimupapers/OnDeck.pdf

Where's Casper ? I thought he was MN . He should know far more than I do.

BY the way, that BBC report went out on the 20 march.

https://www.peelports.com/news/2019/customer-supplier-communication-covid-19-003

It wasn’t the capacity of the ship, it’s just the count of containers. 33.5 million items of which most were ppe wouldn’t need anything like that.

Didn’t they mean they couldn’t go by road in Europe, not from Europe? They were worried about other countries blocking their movement?

I was surprised at it landing at Liverpool, there are regular ships to Portsmouth (if coming from China). Wherever it landed goods would have to be transported, Liverpool hasn’t got a proper rail service to its docks yet. Unless they used Garson.

Anyway, they are doing airlifts from China now, loads of spare aeroplanes floating around.

Well according to the news, ppe from China doesn't comply with ppe standards here and my well be useless, I really hope this isn't the case, another snippet suggests more people of ethnic origins are dying here implying that this my be down to some social disadvantage.

Don't know why we are getting stuff from China, there should be a boycott from this country still it starts paying up

Paying up for what? If every time a virus mutates you are going to blame the country it happens in it would be totally random.

There are some signs that one of the eight strains of CV mutated in UK then went to Spain, should we compensate Spain if that is proven?

France had closed her land borders

Do you think ethnic groups are more concentrated in high rise flats etc. ?

I read that too, Casper, about the testing kits from China not being accurate.

The whole world is now looking for supplies of such items. Listening to Al Jazeera (far better from a universal point of view than our BBC, SKY and ITV ) The refugee camps in so many countries particularly Africa haven't got enough food any longer. Rations in Uganda have been cut by half. $£150 million short, (that's a lot of bowls of rice) and hoping the world community will come to their aid. Growing produce such as lemon grass, spices etc. in Malaysia and other Asian countries by the indigenous populations , that is the only source of income, cannot sell their produce now and unable to support themselves.
Villages in other such places are barricading themselves in, away from any contact with the outside world.
Uganda is seeing a rise in poaching, a) for meat b) for ivory again. Threatening the already threatened species such as the mountain gorilla's.

The list goes on, some say we should wear face masks to prevent passing the virus on, others say not. World population is 7.5 billion people , and I think the catastrophe is yet to hit. It's all very well for us to pontificate, but we can't all have supplies all at the same time.

One real problem is the amount of refugee camps. How has the world gone so badly wrong that people are having to flee and live in such places for protection ?

Our day of reckoning will come , but I suspect the Greta's of this world will be rubbing their hands in glee..

Sorry granny never sailed on a container ship, from what I remember end of the end of the 60's / early70's saw the rise of containerisation although not having fully taken off, interesting you mentioned face masks China,Spain and Italy are encouraging the use of these and some are handing them out, if they are as useless as they tell us for the general population protection then why? there is even a suggestion that the toll is lower in South Korea and Japan because a lot of the population normally wear them, Mmm.

Think we'll all have to learn how to make face masks because it's a possibility they will become compulsory.
I should imagine there will be a shortage of them . Many countries now are wearing them, I must admit I wear a scarf not a woolly one and have that over my mouth and nose in shops also gloves.
Lots of ideas on internet how to make them even from baby wipes and kitchen roll.
Sounds ludicrous but strange times we living in.

may be a barrier to yourself touching your own face.

Masks are not very effective at protecting the person wearing them, they are much more effective at protecting everybody else from you.

I think the argument for wearing them is that if you are assymptomatic there is less chance of you passing it on without realising you have it, and if you just have mild sypmptoms and cough, the mask will impede most of the virus even if it doesn't stop it all getting out into the great beyond. Every litle helps, I guess, but the Govenment is not going to recommend masks unless they can guarantee there will be a lot of masks readily available, or people can make their own - otherwise it'll be a case of PANIC II, The Sequel, coming to a supermarket aisle near you...

I understand the principal, but they must offer some protection ie better than none, even if they just prevent people touching their faces, we could possibly have people walking around that are infected and are unaware or those that just don't care, but if a mask stops just a small % i is better than nothing, as usual we are back of the cart again, I think the main fear is shortage again, I don't hear Boris quoting give us the tools and we will finish the job, more like we have no tools (only in government) but we can "get it done" meanwhile across the water we have another tool blaming the media for the epidemic.

I've argued the same but in reality its 50/50, whilst it will help stop a droplet going straight down your airways, the problem is that the particle is then held directly in front of your airpath to be breathed in over a period of time as it dries up and gets smaller. If you change the mask regularly (and not be accused of wasting PPE) then that alters the odds in a positive direction but the change of mask would have to be very frequent which in itself poses an additional risk.

For an infected person wearing them there is a huge advantage to others, the particles will be slowed down and not spread as far.

Part of the impulse to believe in this is human psychology, we like to have a shield to hang on to. Its like hiding behind a car door or a sofa when someone is shooting at you with an Uzi, nearly everybody would do it even though the bullets go straight through - and the bullets being damaged are more likely to be fatal.

Notice when we are awake we generally breathe in faster than we breathe out, this works against us, try to breathe in slower when you are in potentially hazardous area, breathing out faster helps as well possibly even dislodging particles that have already entered your body. So basically breathe the opposite of how you normally breathe.

An additional gem .... for a mask to be effective it must be held away from the mouth while breathing in (but still sealed) - this is to reduce speed of air over any part of the filter, if you are drawing air in from a 16cm² section of filter through your nose, say 2cm², then the air will be travelling eight times slower through the filter which will have less propensity to draw particles through it - this is more about pressures than speed but they are related. Cheap masks that collapse as you breathe in are obviously more risky,

Hands across the sea

nice one casper

Good entertainment value , isn't he ? Whilst I actually agree with him on his assessment, as I believe they have given wrong info as a guide to follow, to actually halt funding is somewhat extreme . He seems to be the worlds 'Greatest Bully' what with funding cuts and sanctions, it could be considered that stamping his feet and spitting his dummy out is the way he's got to where he is in Trump Towers and started at a very young age.

US President Donald Trump has said he is going to halt funding to the World Health Organization (WHO) because it has "failed in its basic duty" in its response to the coronavirus outbreak.

WHO has failed? Really? People who live in glass houses, Donald...

Aren’t Americans embarrassed? His whole demeanour is of a five year old spoiled brat.

And before anyone asks, yes I most certainly am!

Not very encouraging having a points system NHS : Over 60 yrs your chances of assistance are reduced depending on additional criteria. Points out of 10 but if you're over 75 yrs then automatically you will have 5 points. I have also heard that assistance is not given over the age of 60 yrs in our local hospital ! Anyone else heard that ?
Who would want to go to hospital ?

No wonder there are more deaths of older people !!

Flights from Romania arriving today with farm workers. British farmers say they can't get enough farm workers for the produce.

What a load of rubbish. A call went out ONLY a few days ago for Brits working on the farms, another sneaky way of framers paying less out on wages, but these people will be quarantined, tested and house for how ever many weeks at whose expense ?Not the farmers I'm sure .

8th APRIL :
http://www.fruitnet.com/fpj/article/181440/furloughed-staff-can-work-on-farms

Dominic Cummings government advisor Feb 2020 talking about herd immunity, "so what if a few pensioners die" that of course was vehemently denied, but then it would be wouldn't it.

Link to quote please, Casper.

This is the NHS criteria , not the Government, 60 yrs olds aren't pensioners any longer and hospitals seem to have a different path to follow, depending on the hospital.

Lockdown yet again highlights how incompetent & corrupt uk is..
Heathrow flights still come in daily...
Just before lockdown 1000s of spanish where wandering round the city.
Always caught with their pants down uk.
I like the fact weathers good , theres loads of space everywhere , no 4x4 idiots jamming up the roads , its peaceful , a& e isnt full of drunk angry idiots , shops are empty when u get in & theres not loads of chav kids collecting on the street etc etc.
Its prob ' nature re setting itself from parasite humans.
Or its a tory distraction from brexit / recession / kill off expensive old / make small & med got to state for loans to run / make us anti social / rob pensions more etc etc.
Mr ickes been removed by internet powers for just talkin ( not allowed )
We buy most things from china cause theyre cheap. And our society mirrors theirs at mo as we line up for food.
Reminds me exactly of 10 yr old film " contagion " .
Someone said its russian chemical warfare dropped in wuyhan games to mess things up & destroy....
Anything goes in this mad mad world !!

It was reported in the Sunday Times originally and followed up by the other papers, this was at the time when the government where dithering about herd immunity, but I bet all their aged relatives will be exempt. you say it is the NHS criteria, is this across the board or individual regions or health authorities? I find it very hard to believe that the NHS alone would implement such a policy without being told by the government.

Dominic Cummings. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

It was the BMA that issued the guidelines.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...rus-patients-for-healthier-ones-bma-says

EU offers grieving Italy 'heartfelt apology'



The president of the European Commission has offered a "heartfelt apology" for letting Italy down at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic.

"Yes it is true that no one was really ready for this," Ursula von der Leyen told the European Parliament on Thursday morning. "It is also true that too many were not there on time when Italy needed a helping hand at the very beginning. And yes for that, it is right that Europe as a whole offers a heartfelt apology."

More than 21,000 people with the virus have died in Italy, according to Johns Hopkins University - the highest death toll in Europe.

As Italy struggled to contain the outbreak in early March, both France and Germany placed restrictions on the export of face masks - despite warnings from the EU Commission that such actions could undermine the collective response to the virus.

Heartfelt apologies after the event doesn't change the way people think when they made these decisions, this wasn't just a mistake it was a prolonged strategy at a very critical time for Italy.

The salt was rubbed in the wound when France gave PPE away to other countries.

After weeks of blagging Matt Hancock has now come clean, after being challenged about the shortage and reuse of PPE, his latest is I wish I had a magic wand or that it would fall from the sky, but there is a world shortage, I think he missed the tough shit bit out.

Just saw on another forumn. Apparently a scam is going round whereby you get a text message saying you have been in contact with a person who has Covid-19 and telling you to click , DONT! I know we all pretty clued up on these scams but thought it was worth putting on just in case.

Some sick b'tards around.

Just heard that one of my relations went to India before lockdown here in UK. He's with his mother and 10 yr old daughter. They are stuck out there in a camp and the 10yr old has the job every morning of cutting cardboard plates and taking food out to the beggars on the streets outside the camp ! Don't know when they will get home.

Face shields


https://www.schoolbooking.com/elles...AE7dVcWOGD0BzYKF81RNebr8gEidDPikV2soI5HE

There are Wirral Schools and businesses making face shields and other PPE. Saint Anselm's, Upton Hall, spring to mind but I have come across a few others as well.

Even at this late stage, the Government need to pull their finger out or step aside. Their handling of this crisis is appalling and showing no improvement, do we trust them to remove the lockdown in an appropriate manner?

Boris has got away with big mistakes in the past with his bumbling fool character, this is even more serious, he has to be held to account this time.

Hancock seems to alternate good days and bad days, one day he makes sense, the next day he looses the plot.

Gove is in his usual self-preservation mode, whether that is burying his head in the sand or blaming someone else.

Boris appears to be having a long convalescence, no doubt waiting for a breakthrough or at least some good news so he can appear like the good fairy, a shake of his touseled blond head and all will be well, the stooges will be blamed for all the bungling.

As for the PPE debacle, if you go to the supermarket late the shelves will be empty and you must queue for what is left.

Various reports of people entering the country without any checks on their health whatsoever, I am beginning to notice more people, gathering in groups especially the younger ones, police being assaulted for breaking up parties, if it continues any advantage will be lost, a decision needs to be made, toughen up the penalties for those that don't comply or enforce a lock down, at the moment the governments bucket of measures is leaking like the proverbial sieve.

Various reports are outlining President Trumps new approach. Please don't panic buy Dettol , syringes and sunlamps .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

(snips)

US President Donald Trump has been lambasted by the medical community after suggesting research into whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body

While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump suggested further research in that area.

"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."

Technically he is correct on both counts although most certainly not what he was thinking.

A disinfectant that you put in your body is called medicine (not Detol). Its just a matter of finding the correct chemical that dis-infects.

Light is used for certain conditions often in the form of ultra-violet or laser.

I see Dominic Cummings has re entered the arena, his presence has been criticised after attending a meeting of top scientists, not in his remit as a political adviser, a government spokesman has said that public confidence in the media has collapsed because of these non stories, what he meant was, caught out again, we should be able to lie without every little porky being broadcast, Cummings might make a suggestion on Trumps pearls of wisdom, lets inject them with???? and end the problem, and get the economy back on its feet, easy peasy.

Of course... all negative point scoring . Who gives a shit ?

[quote=granny]

Of course... all negative point scoring . Who gives a shit ? [/quote

Well there is nothing positive to celebrate is there granny? turned down help from the EU, first it was a political decision then it wasn't, then it was a missed communication, we have small companies dotted around the UK that have been producing PPE, they have been trying to get an answer from government for over 3 weeks, telephone email no response, so much so they have had to stop manufacturing, we now have the testing fiasco, death toll still rising daily, testing was the answer in the early stages as proved in other countries with lower death rates, all in all we are faring badly compared to other countries, take Greece as an example, the cries of get it done are sounding rather hollow now, its not about point scoring, its looking to this government to be straight with us, and by their attempts to discredit the media, they open themselves up to negative criticism

Everything our Government does is affecting whether people live or die - that is not political point scoring, it is more about criminal behaviour.

This Government is costing us lives, we have the highest number of new deaths in the world today beating even the USA despite them being five times bigger than us. We have the second highest number of new infections beaten only by Russia (but they are about twice as big as us).

Even the EU with its poor track record is condemning the UK for our very poor control of Coronavirus.

Dominic Cummings is a strategist, he has no science or medical training. He has never been a member of the Conservative party, he is not a politician, his only role and responsibility is his own career and that is his priority. Dominic is answerable only to Dominic.

It is now nearly two weeks since Boris spoke publicly having just left hospital when he had no apparent speaking or breathing difficulties.

The reason Boris is out the public eye is the same reason he disappeared before the election, Cummings doesn't trust Boris to keep to the strategic line whenever he speaks publicly.

The Conservative Party realise there could be a lot of fallout from the mistakes and lies that have happened, if that lands on Boris it could lead to a general election. For once, Boris is not being offered as the bumbling sacrificial lamb.

Dominic Cummings has absolutely nothing to do with the number of coronavirus cases. If he attends a meeting , why shouldn't he, if he was allowed and if he had an interest in such a very serious situation. ?

It doesn't matter, he's not a medical, health, or scientific advisor , and to say Boris didn't have any breathing problem or difficulty in speaking when he left hospital is another example of the Brits trying to play Sherlock Holmes.
You yourself DD, said in one of your posts that this virus attacks many of the internal organs too. So maybe you'd like to comment on the state of Boris's kidneys ?

The number of deaths is awful, and concentrated areas are more prone. I'm not interested in what the EU thinks, or says, we know how Germany came out of it so well. We know how Italy and Spain didn't !

There was one gentleman who actually said that although many deaths recorded have been categorised as Coronavirus, it is not necessarily Covid 19, as many diseases come under the Coronavirus. France haven't given their care home deaths, neither has Canada, and I don't know how many more countries . I'd like to know how many fatalities have just had Coronavirus stamped on their death certificate, because if the numbers are high, they clearly won't have enough Pathologists to carry out autopsies needed. So that's to my mind is another question to be answered.

Not interested in Cummings. Who would those who oppose Cummings prefer to have his job instead ? All I see is the British public thinking they know who is best to fill these positions. Nobody would actually please all of the people all of the time, and it really has nothing to do with us.
Let's not forget all the advisors of Blair,(Iraq) Brown (Gold) , Corbyn,(election) to name a few incidents, those who ended up in jail, corrupt property dealers, cocaine addicts and rent boys, Alistair Campbell who went on holiday with Kinnock and was a very close friend of Maxwell. The list is endless on both sides , but attending a meeting given by health officials and scientists is no crime.

People would be better engaged in having a look to see what other things are going under the radar during this pandemic , if they are so worried. An old saying springs to mind... A good day to bury bad news !
They should also be more concerned about the possible world famine following this pandemic ... rather than Cummings attending a meeting . Trivial nonsense

Well, I would also suggest keeping our eyes on the Middle East because that is building up (I'll give it 18months before take off) , as we argue about who has the worse toothache.

Now I've said my piece , and not listening to you two any longer.

... and another thing.

USA 54,000 deaths

EU well exceeds that total

USA population 328.2 million
EU population 446 million.

EU statistics well exceed double US statistics.

Don't understand how Poland and Romania have come out with so few fatalities . Maybe because Romania only have 19 million and the Polish are all in the UK.

I think you are missing the point, Cummings is running the country not just "attending meetings". We have gone back to the days of spin-doctors ruling the roost because the spineless elected political leaders haven't got the nous to do their jobs.

CV has hardly started in the USA, both New York (0.11%) and New Jersey (0.07%) have a worse death rate than Belgium (0.06%) which is the worst EU country, it has yet to spread as significantly in many other States but it probably will in some.

Romania had a really harsh lockdown which probably helped them, one factor I can guess at especially with Poland is temperature, CV doesn't appear to have hit colder (or hotter) climbs as much, maybe there is a certain band of temperatures it thrives in? This would be in line with many other viruses.

We still don't know why CV spreads so readily, most people in the country are observing lockdown to a reasonable degree, the few idiots that aren't don't really account for the ease it is spreading. Supermarket staff don't seem to have the prevalence you would expect which sort of cancels out the possibility that it is spreading while people are shopping.

We are clearly missing something very basic, the evidence to me is that it is more of an airborne problem than so far admitted/realised (deduced purely on the basis that I've run out of other options), we have had a fair amount of wind days over recent weeks. With a rainy spell coming that may slow down the spread if it is an airborne problem.

The intention of giving the above numbers was in fact to point out that the United States of America has fewer cases than the United States of Europe, considering the difference in populations but I certainly don't think that the EU or UK has finished with it yet.

Don't be silly, Cummings is not running the country.

I feel this is very apt :

Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?

22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

23
He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.

24
No sooner are they planted,
no sooner are they sown,
no sooner do they take root in the ground,
than he blows on them and they wither,
and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.

Numerous Tory politicians have said he is.

Who ?

Ken Clark has stated it on more than one occasion, Huw Merriman, Sir Roger Gale and a number of others that chose to be anonymous, everybody knows what happens when you get on the wrong side of Cummings because he has the power to get rid.

365 tory MP's, and you name 3, one of whom voted against same sex marriage, another who would oppose almost anything unless it was about himself, and all three opposed Brexit !

More please, because when I grew up, 'numerous' meant 'many' , not two or three.

Well I for one am glad to see Boris back at the helm...not expecting miracles and know many glaring mistakes have been made but whether you like it or not this is the government we have and we all looking to them to get us through this..

Morning Cools..


Last week, it was reported two cats in US had coronavirus, but nothing more was heard so could have been nonsense.

Yesterday it's reported by Reuters, that the new Covid 19 has been found on two Dutch mink farms. (Cruel b.tds. Who the heck wears mink these days ?)

If this is the case , I suggest we could have a problem on our hands of an even greater magnitude.

What's that got to do with it? I'd vote against it given the chance - I might start a topic.

Really granny do you expect people to put themselves forward knowing this mans reputation, David Cameron described him as a career psychopath and accused him of dripping poison into the ears of others, 365 Tory MP's many new, being careful not to piss on their boots, lets face it how many detractors have already been sacked? and on who's say so, the guy is utterly ruthless, its akin to the Generals in the bunker telling Hitler he's loony ( although they thought it ) that is why there was concern about him being present at the latest meeting, too much influence.

I am reminded of how the likes of Vince Cable, Iain Duncan Smith, and even Alastair Campbell suddenly found themselves with the capacity to speak up about the sort of injustices - the likes of which they themselves had enabled - once relieved of Office.

The figures are still going up each day, the death toll still rises and Boris and the gang thinks we are at a turning point!
When there's no new cases and nobody dies then we have reach that point Boris

Another example of Chinese kits being faulty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52451455

Antibody tests are never going to be reliable, once the infection has cleared there are not many antibodies floating around the body, it is just just like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

If you want a reliable test, it would need a substantial sample not a quick dab.

An additional complication is that like many other viruses, coronavirus can lie dormant/hidden in other parts of the body apart from the respiratory system.

Just heard LA is offering ALL residents CV19 tests. So how come they can do this? when nobody else can.
Think ( I know ) I'm getting cabin fever

Wirral has got the test group here this week, three days, maximum of 250 a day. At 750 that is only a fraction of those that are entitled to a test.

Our hospital tested almost half of our on-duty Staff earlier this week, as part of a national pilot scheme to determine the prevalence of symptomless COVID-19 - we're expecting 5-6% of those tested to be positive.

Hope they are all ok, MisterSmiff.

Interesting article on PPE going back to 2004/2005

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...idnt-address-chronically-low-ppe-stocks/

Wirral has got the test group here this week, three days, maximum of 250 a day. At 750 that is only a fraction of those that are entitled to a test.[/quot

A rising death toll 27,590 and Matt Hancock is patting himself on the back for allegedly reaching his forecast figures for testing, He now tells us testing is the answer,over a month too late mate, we are heading for the highest death toll in Europe.

One wonders how many more .

Wirral man held after tip-off leads police to stolen PPE


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52503144?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2655613-birkenhead/0&link_location=live-reporting-story

A man has been arrested on suspicion of stealing personal protective equipment from his employer.

The 40-year-old was held after Merseyside Police raided a home in Bromborough, Wirral, earlier.

Officers seized a large number of items, including face masks and respirators.

The force declined to comment on the nature of the man's job or the business he works for, but said the raid was a result of "information supplied to us".

Det Insp Nick Suffield added that despite the coronavirus lockdown, "our investigation is ongoing".

Looking at the ONS 1st Mar to 17th Apr data for the 26(?) areas of Wirral, the only area that didn't have a death was Greater Meols yet neighbouring Hoylake was the worst with nine.

This ?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc811/msoamap/index.html

Yes, they should have done the maps earlier to make everyone aware that the virus is everywhere. I was speaking to someone from Hoylake before, they said that they assumed it hadn't arrived there as they hadn't heard of anyone having the virus let alone dying.

Edit: just noticed Egremont had zero deaths as well.

Do you know when was this information released ? If in the last few days, do you think some of the deaths may have been in the Care Homes as they have now have the updated the figures ? Hoylake has a few of those .

Also , the chart with all the Covid 19 cases on Wirral and the rest of the country seems to have disappeared over the last few days . I think we (Wirral) had a bout 900 cases last time I saw it, and considering the difference in population, we were not far behind Liverpool .

Wirral Deaths by COVID19 up to 17th April

Carehome - 45
Home - 5
Hospice - 2
Hospital - 136
Other Communal Establishment - 2

Total - 190 ............. (Total deaths from all causes 1443)

Infections by Local Authority are at https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#local-authorities Wirral are currently at 1018

Nothing Orwellian about this?

Little Bruv is Being Watched

I see the Tory propaganda machine is up and running, poor Boris was at deaths door and now reveals his death announcement should he have not survived (sad background music playing) we are now being readied for the return to work and some normality, but are we actually ready? the government failed to supply vital PPE for the NHS yet in their brief on safe return to work they mention the usual safe distancing hand washing etc and of course PPE just wondering, if they failed to provide PPE for the protection of front line workers what hope is there for everybody else getting it provided, I know there are different classes and grades of mask but surely the demand must have switched to protect the NHS leaving a shortage.

This crisis has been bungled from the beginning, lets hope some common sense prevails and we don't rush headlong into another ill thought out fiasco, because some government adviser is pushing from the back.

What's with the blame game Casper?

Spanish are blaming their Government, Italians are blaming their Government, Germany is blaming Italy, France has now said their case was in December 2019 so that could hold them guilty..

Blame does not help the bereaved in any way what so ever, but if there has to be blame, then it's time to stand up to World Governments who allow cross contamination through peculiar, cruel and archaic methods of medicine, which incidentally, WHO gave clearance to China for such things . So, what do you think China is doing now ? Administering medicine for Covid 19 made from bear bile !
Those are the things we need to be challenging, preventing cross contamination , and various other flu epidemics that always rise in the East . That's some indication of where the blame should lie, every time .

As a matter of interest, what would you have changed or been able to change in this specific process of dealing with Covid 19.

WHO is an advisory body, they cannot give "clearance" for anything. They have been working hard in China to classify traditional medicines because some work and some don't (much the same as some of our NHS drugs). WHO's role is to educate people and Governments, they have no legislative powers.

I'm waiting for the RSPCA to be blamed for Coronavirus, I'm sure that one will be in the wings.

Things that should have been done different ....

Not got rid of our national reserves of PPE, the Government's own reports showed a continual necessity for it. It was only a pittance in the Government's budget.

Put the NHS in charge of Coronavirus instead of Public Health England. The only reason PHE exists is in readiness to be the Ombudsman when the NHS is privatised, their role wasn't related to what had to be done with Coronavirus.

Got the Coronavirus acute units running up earlier and run by specialists.

Not downgraded the classification of Coronavirus - this meant non-acute units were having to deal with it and worse still, the relevant specialist weren't at hand in many hospitals which were landed with the disease. Most hospitals had not even come across wide bore ventilation before and numerous mistakes were made because of lack of experience.

Locked down earlier - we had much more notice than other countries of the severity but threw that lead away in some weird hope that it wouldn't hit us - valuable time was lost.

Locked down flights, we were one of the few Countries that didn't, there was no testing and no isolation.

Stopped the Cheltenham Festival and the Spanish football match in Liverpool going ahead - that was crazy.

Spent some money on ways to protect care-homes - from day one the assumption was that old and vulnerable people were going to get thrown to the dogs. Old people with Coronavirus were being sent back to the care homes from Hospitals - if that isn't attempted manslaughter, what is?

Got the armed forces in to help with deliveries from shops, it has become very clear that shopping is probably the most hazardous thing people can do, delivering food is less hazardous to everybody.

Got testing in place early, if you want to play games of statistics and "scientific evidence" then you need data to play with.

Be clearer on lockdown (and other) rules, in an emergency all instructions have to be crystal clear and not breach common sense without an explanation.

You want more?

OK so we'll correct the word 'clearance' and replace it with 'recognised'

According to Reuters, as of May 2019, China has set up a multi-decade plan to promote TCM. It includes hospitals, museums, medicinal zoos, and botanical gardens.

According to WHO, also reported May 2019 : On Saturday the WHO’s World Health Assembly recognised traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) diagnoses for 400 conditions in its influential International Classification of Disease list.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-world-health-organisation-a8933061.html

UN : NATURE IS SENDING US A MESSAGE’ says United Nations’ environment chief, Inger Andersen, discussing the current COVID-19 pandemic, the latest in a line of recent environmental impacts. The increasing number of human infectious disease outbreaks includes Ebola, bird flu, Mers, Rift Valley fever, Sars, West Nile virus and Zika virus – all crossed from animals to humans. All the result of human pressures on the earth’s natural systems. Andersen suggests that “our long-term response must tackle habitat and biodiversity loss”. Scientists have concluded that it is almost always human actions that causes diseases to spill over from wildlife into humans.

You can't blame the Chinese for zoonotic diseases, they have been happening since the beginning of time, it is part of nature. It is globalisation that has made them a problem, that makes the difference between a small local epidemic and a pandemic.

Not all TCM is animal based, the article fails to mention that, some of it isn't any form of substance eg acupuncture.

WHO have not completed the classifications yet as to which treatments are effective and which are not, it is a work in progress, the articles are jumping ahead of reality. It would be silly of WHO to jump the gun in case effective treatments were "condemned".

It is not only China that harvests creatures for medicines, it is also done in the west, we even harvest humans!

I will blame China for it's continuation of a practice from archaic dynasties into the 21st century . We all know how cruel the Chinese are.. and do you think that harvesting animals and creatures and human organs even in the West, makes it ethical, right and above scrutiny ? I don't , and we know most of the Asian countries are responsible too, that's why the trafficked animals from Africa ,India and other places are leading to world extinction of so many species, and thus distorting the balance of nature, which we rely upon so much. I can't see how donkeys being poached out of Africa for their skins to make Chinese medicine, (just one example) is beneficial to anyone, and certainly taking the livelihood away from African villagers who have no other mode of transport to collect water and goods.
A high percentage of TCM is animal based , but if you think it's ok , then it must be because I seldom hear anyone voice any concerns about it, until of course it all bounces back and hits us. We can turn a blind eye and make excuses for so long, and then because a pandemic takes away our civil liberties everyone starts crying and blaming everyone else.

Look at the way the WORLD is and where it is going..... not just the UK.

No, the majority of TCM is herbal, you are choosing to focus on one tiny part of it and stereotyping a false image.

My general take on a lot of things like this is that we should clean up our own culture before criticising other cultures. The human race is about 200,000 years old, you can't expect all cultures to develop within a few years of each other.

In a newspaper this would be stated that I condone animal treatment in China but that would be based on conjecture.

Its only fifteen years ago that fox hunting was partially outlawed in this country. Its less than 170 years ago since we abolished slavery, within the lives of some people's grandparents.

Look at the treatment of pet rabbits in this country, something I find appalling. I spent a significant part of my childhood chasing rabbits round fields, to see them cooped up in a small hutch is heart breaking, its not like there is even a function of having them like that.

We have a long way to go but lets clean our own doorstep before slagging off others..

I think DD answered most of it granny, in simple terms a plain and ordinary risk assessment to start with, what are the risks, how do we stop / reduce them, what are the priorities, these tasks to be carried out by a competent person(s) Back in January at a meeting of these alleged competent persons were still dithering over what to do, herd immunity, Dominic Cummings suggests the deaths of a few pensioners is acceptable, isolation? loath to take advice from those filthy foreigners in Europe, because we are out now, previous government exercises (Ex Cygnus 2016) revealed issues with the shortage of ppe and ventilators in the highly likely case of a future pandemic (no action taken) yet the government was aware of this in January, no testing ,no tracing, not enough ppe, not enough ventilators, basic needs in the fight against this pandemic, yes I blame them granny as I would blame any government for the deaths of over 28,000 people, one more thing that stuck in my mind, the PM saying he would not stop shaking hands with people, oh the arrogance of it, and thereby lies one of the problems.

I think it is wrong to blame the government, they are just following advice off the scientists

A lot of those scientists are on line screaming at the Government. WHO is full of scientists but the Government ignored their advice, they ignored Chinese scientist's advice and they ignored Italian scientist's advice.

Members of SAGE have complained that Cummings did interfere with their meetings and did try to influence their decisions. He was not just a silent onlooker like the Government has tried to portray him.

Yes, agreed.

All too easy for the ' couch potatoes' ( :) to be pontificating after the event.

WHO gave the wrong advice in the first instance which UK and others followed. I've already shown the evidence of that previously.

SAGE is a sub- committee of COBRA.

I'm convinced you make it up as you go along. Where to you get all this inside information from ?

Here is a list of the SAGE advisory committee for Covid 19. I hardly think that Cummings attendance would have altered anything.

Sir Patrick Vallance FMedSci FRS, Government Chief Scientific Adviser
Professor Chris Whitty CB FMedSci, Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Adviser, Department of Health and Social Care
Professor John Aston, Chief Scientific Adviser, Home Office
Professor Wendy Barclay FMedSci, Imperial College London
Professor Phil Blythe, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Transport
Professor Ian Boyd FRSE, University of St Andrews
Professor Andrew Curran, Chief Scientific Adviser, Health and Safety Executive
Dr Gavin Debrera, Public Health England
Professor Sir Ian Diamond FRSE FBA, National Statistician, Office for National Statistics
Professor Yvonne Doyle CB, Medical Director, Public Health England
Professor John Edmunds OBE FMedSci, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
Professor Sir Jeremy Farrar FMedSci FRS, Director, Wellcome Trust
Professor Neil Ferguson OBE FMedSci, Imperial College London
Dr Aidan Fowler FRCS, National Health Service England
Professor Julia Gog, University of Cambridge
Dr David Halpern, Behavioural Insights Team, Cabinet Office
Dr Jenny Harries OBE, Deputy Chief Medical Officer
Dr Demis Hassabis FRS, Personal capacity as a data scientist
Professor Peter Horby, University of Oxford
Dr Indra Joshi, NHSX
Professor Dame Theresa Marteau FMedSci, University of Cambridge
Professor Dame Angela McLean FRS, Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Defence
Professor Graham Medley, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine
Professor Andrew Morris FMedSci FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Carole Mundell, Chief Scientific Adviser, Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Professor Catherine Noakes, University of Leeds
Dr Rob Orford, Welsh Government
Professor Michael Parker, University of Oxford
Professor Sharon Peacock FMedSci, Public Health England
Professor Alan Penn, Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Professor Steve Powis FRCP, National Health Service England
Dr Mike Prentice, National Health Service England
Mr Osama Rahman Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Education
Professor Venki Ramakrishnan PRS, Ex Officio as Chair of DELVE, convened by the Royal Society
Professor Andrew Rambaut FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Tom Rodden. Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
Professor Brooke Rogers OBE, Kings College London
Dr James Rubin, Kings College London
Professor Calum Semple, University of Liverpool
Dr Mike Short CBE, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for International Trade
Dr Gregor Smith, Scottish Government, Chief Medical Officer
Professor Sir David Spieglhalter FRS, University of Cambridge
Professor Jonathan Van Tam MBE, Deputy Chief Medical Officer
Professor Russell Viner PRCPCH, University College London
Professor Charlotte Watts CMG FMedSci, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for International Development
Professor Mark Walport FRCP FMedSci FRS, UK Research and Innovation
Professor Mark Woolhouse FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Lucy Yardley, University of Bristol
Professor Ian Young, Northern Ireland Executive
Professor Maria Zambon FMedSci, Public Health England

Might be your approach, DD but having seen more video footage, images and inhumane activities from that part of the world, I can assure you it would turn any mans stomach upside down, your included. You think fox hunting is bad... just one recent snapshot of Asian practices. This is training for circuses.. gives a clue to other practices they administer .

I'll deal with you later Casper.

Casper, we've already covered the Cumming's thing about deaths of a few pensioners, which has been emphatically denied. I have no doubt that the press twisted words , something they always manage to excel in.
https://www.who.int/news-room/artic...f-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan

This is an update to the WHO advice in relation to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus nCoV, published by WHO on 10 January 2020. Since that date, travel-related cases linked to Wuhan City have been reported in several countries. For details about the current outbreak in China and the exported cases, please refer to the Diseases Outbreak News and the situation reports published by WHO.
Health measures related to international traffic
The current outbreak originated in Wuhan city, which is a major domestic and international transport hub. Given the large population movements, expected to significantly increase during the Chinese New Year in the last week of January, and the observed human to human transmission, it is not unexpected that new confirmed cases will continue to appear in other areas and countries.
With the information currently available for the novel coronavirus, WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of exportation or importation of the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom
1) As soon as cases appeared in the UK on 31 January 2020, a public health information campaign, similar to the previous "Catch it, Bin it, Kill it"
2) Transmission within the UK was first documented on 28 February. By 1 March, there were cases in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland The government unveiled the Coronavirus Action Plan, and declared the outbreak a "level 4 incident
3)On 10th March 6 people confirmed to have died.
4) On 11 March, the outbreak was declared a pandemic. by WHO
5) On 12th March 8 people had died from Covid 19 in UK
6) by the 14th March, panic buying had gone off the richter scale
7) On 15th March—following the outbreak in Italy] and based on forecasting by epidemiologists at Imperial College London—the government said everyone should avoid all "non-essential" travel and contact with others, avoid crowds, and work from home if possible. Those with symptoms, and their household, were asked to self-isolate. Pregnant women, people over 70, and those with certain health conditions were asked to self-isolate for longer
8) On 20 March, the governments shut all schools, restaurants, pubs, indoor entertainment venues and leisure centres, with some exceptions.\l "
9) On 23 March, the government imposed a lockdown on the whole population, banning all "non-essential" travel and contact with people outside one's home (including family and partners), and shutting almost all businesses, venues, facilities, amenities and places of worship. People were told to keep apart in public. Police were given power to enforce the lockdown, and the Coronavirus Act 2020 gave the government emergency powers not used since the Second World War.
10) 23rd March a shipment arrived UK with PPE supplies .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...idnt-address-chronically-low-ppe-stocks/
(the following is just some of the article)
The answer lies in how the Government planned for the pandemic. After the Civil Contingencies Act was passed in 2004, the first UK influenza pandemic contingency plan was published in October 2005, setting out how Britain would handle a mass infection event. Although it suggested stockpiling antivirals, it made no mention of PPE.
The follow up-document, a national framework for responding to an influenza pandemic, was published in 2007 and, for the first time, included guidance that PPE should be provided for health workers.
But, crucially, it set out that emergency stockpiles would only be triggered in the event of the World Health Organisation (WHO) declaring a pandemic, and that rule has remained in place ever since.
The Government keeps mass stocks of PPE at depots around the country, but Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, did not declare a pandemic until March 11, meaning hospitals could not touch the supplies until then.
Government reports also warned that it would take seven to 10 days for the UK-wide distribution of centrally held stocks and said organisations should prepare to rely initially on local supplies.
When the coronavirus epidemic began, some hospitals had virtually no PPE supplies – so by the time the first emergency stockpiled equipment began arriving, many had run out entirely at exactly the time case numbers were soaring.
By the time the UK influenza pandemic preparedness strategy was published in 2011, the Government had stockpiles of face masks and respirators for health and social care workers in place. However, at this point it was agreed that there would be no stockpiling of PPE outside the NHS – a situation that has remained until today and is now causing major problems.
The pandemic stockpile was only designed to supply 226 NHS trusts, not the 58,000 other health and social care providers that desperately need equipment in order to keep people safe. To make matters worse, Public Health England (PHE) has since confirmed that gowns were never included in the national pandemic stockpile of PPE equipment, but said they would be in future.
------------------------------------------
Add to that, the supplies ordered from abroad and despatched were the wrong items on one occassion. The world was and is scratching around for supplies , mostly from China which was in lock down for weeks and therfore supplies were unavailable. Of course that's part of the problem, globalisation and procurement manufacturing of items no longer in the UK.
Testing kits ordered were faulty and not suitable.
What advice did the ' filthy foreigners' in Europe give us ? I Haven't heard that they did and whatever advice it was, didn;t help them. Maybe we should have all worn niqabs, they seem to have saved the ME, when we look at their data ! We couldn;t get mask, all sold out, but we could have bought M & S thongs. Quite multi-purpose apparently.
About 85% of Care Homes are privately run, and charging extortionate amounts for residents on a weekly/monthly basis and they should have had their own stockpiles.
Put it all together, and I don;t think your obsession with making Boris the scape goat is valid. Sure there has been some chaos, but so too in all other parts of the world, and when a bunch of dick heads are stopped in Snowdonia last weekend, for having a mini break, where do you think they came from. ? London !
Everyone has had a part to play, and most have abided by the advice, but it is/was advice which clearly others have refused to engage with, as we have seen so many times.
I can;t see what else could have been done within the time frame, but maybe you have some more ideas to contribute.
Add to that, we don't have the full picture of deaths worldwide yet, and doubt we ever will. Once tourism kicks in again, the Chinese will be first on the planes.
Being checked at airports e.g. people saying the weren;t checked here on arrivals in UK, but most countries were checking passengers on outward bound flights and therfore it would not have been needed when arrivals landed just a few hours later in UK . If they arrived after lockdown, they would automatically have gone into self isolation, if they'd played by the rules.
Are you going to download the App for tracking , Casper.

I wouldn't dream of making Boris ( notable by his continuing absence) a scapegoat, that's his game, no doubt those bright shiny faces on the news will be victims should some truth emerge about how things should have been dealt with,I know Boris holds the NHS in very high esteem, so much so that the lack of PPE is not to be sited as a contributing factor in the unfortunate deaths of medical staff due to Covid 19 the magic marker is already in play, deny deny deny, meanwhile the death toll now the highest in Europe is still rising, If I remember rightly weren't we offered a choice with the Europeans to purchase PPE, a statement was then made by a representative that this was refused because of a political decision, this was then denied, then the next day, the missed opportunity was put down to a miscommunication, oh no it wasn't, oh yes it was, Jesus they can't even lie properly, as to people breaking the self isolation rule, then what would a risk assessment say? the measures in place are not working, next step strengthen measures,mmm bit of a problem here not enough police old boy, what about the army? didn't we run them down too?

Anyhow rant over, yes I will download the app granny anything to assist, still love you xx

Love you too babe. XXX

However, don't think creeping into my heart will let you off the hook.

It was the Guardian that reported that about refusing PPE 3 times.

Well, it so happens that it wouldn't have made any difference to the time factor at all, the EU still had to procure and got caught up in the waiting game :

“For the majority of PPE included in the EU scheme, the supply of items to participating countries is still subject to the European Commission signing off individual contracts with suppliers. [On] the placing of orders and negotiations on delivery schedules, we understand that participating countries may begin to receive PPE starting from two weeks after orders are placed, but delivery will be subject to the same demand pressures of all other procurement currently taking place."

@ DD and anyone else who cares to view.

Rabbits in cages.. and lots more we can pour our hearts out over. None of it excusable, but Chinese animal welfare goes far and beyond in the opposite direction and has no similarity to western practices and absolutely no welfare standards at all ... and people fill their bodies with the stuff full of infections, cancers, etc.

Bear bile.




How to eradicate swine flu.



Do you want anymore ? There's plenty worse where they came from and the pangolins are too harsh to bare, just for their scales .

Regardless of any waiting time best practice would have taken any avenue or any place in a queue to secure what we could, an opportunity turned down, because of arrogance, better to have at least tried,as I have said before if we don't get in the queue then the shelves will be empty when we decide to turn up.

Watched the Scrutiny Committee this pm. Talk about confusing !

One senior scientist was giving all sorts of eventualities , different ways of calculating, how data is dealt with differently in different countries, and how normally there are 3000 deaths in Care Homes a week at this time of year throughout the UK.

That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?

Another fine mess, who in their right mind would even mention that there might be the chance of a small adjustment to the lock down next week prior to a bank holiday, to the feckless and the just don't give a f---, its like giving the green light for jollies at the weekend or even today.

Or because I am very cynical, it might be a very clever move, if the figures should rise or not stay stable then who will be blamed? one guess would it be the people ignoring the ban.

Hazel O`Conner Will You
Everyone will be Cautious then gradually the caution will slowly fade to "Won't Be Me Am Healthy"
I will carry on staying in and Watch till next march as this is NOT going away.
Read a report that they had a Very good chance of getting rid of STD with everyone in lockdown and they blew it.
They should of Used TV Podium to get people to phone up to ask for swap kit and if wear infected treated them with postal medication Private and secretly so no embarrassment

But they will not find that out for around a week because it lays dormant before symptons are noticed.

It was so much worse than that - people from care homes went to hospital, were diagnosed with coronavirus and sent back to the care homes with instructions to isolate.

Beginning to look like, there is indeed a policy to allocate resources / treatment on the basis or likely hood of the survival rate, wouldn't surprise me,I think it was policy and has been the intention all along we were talking to neighbours yesterday (2mtrs apart) and their son is a paramedic, he had to go from Wallasey to Haydock to be tested, what a shambles

That was stated at one point. If there was a shortage of ventilators they were instructed to remove ventilators from existing patients with a probable poor outcome in favour of new patients with better prospects.

This is somewhat different to allocating resources based on priority, to remove a resource from a living patient based on a newer patient is only half a step away from hitting the big switch dependent on who walks through the door next - euthanasia by proxy!

Not good ! I wonder how often that happened and who was responsible for actually discharging those people. Poor souls.

Probably got something to do with the fact that North West Ambulance Service NHS Trust (NWAS) has it's head office in Bolton. Haydock is a tad nearer to Wallasey than Bolton.

Hopefully you have no need for an ambulance, Casper. but paramedics cover this area from all over the North West, not just local guys. Probably why it takes so long for one to arrive on many occasions. Going back to changes initiated in 2005.

Well at last they are going to make people coming into UK isolate in units for 14 days. I think this is long overdue. I wonder if the plan is still herd immunity but obviously not overloading hospitals. I can't see any way out of this without us all having it and hopefully surviving but of course many won't. A lot of these elderly have debilitating illnesses and would have died naturally but now they all seem to have this covid-19.
I pray every morning I'll wake up and a vaccine has been found to eradicate this virus, but I know that's not going to be quite the way it will happen...

I read an article in the Telegraph about their stance on herd immunity and they have decided not to carry on with this policy.
"Looking back, it was a moment that Sir Patrick Vallance may now view as regrettable"
But later in the article it states that herd immunity is a natural by-product of the virus so why go against their original train of thought?
Couldn't the vulnerable just stay on lockdown and let everyone else build up their immunity?
Because it will be going on forever before it is erradicated, if we don't build up an immunity.

Article here

In the absence of a vaccine or effective treatment, the only possible course of action is herd immunity, though 60% is a tad on the low side and it would be very difficult to get an even spread of 60% round the country.

However it has to be controlled as it cannot be allowed to overload the country's infrastructure.

Only a small proportion of the country has so far had the disease, to the best of our knowledge. If it went rampant we could end up with half of the country laid up at the same time. Things would be affected eg

NHS would have a shortage of staff and a surplus of patients, many more would die through lack of basic treatments.

Manufacture and deliveries of everything would be affected, this includes food, medicine, fuel.

Basic infrastructure such as electricity, gas, water and sewage could be lost through lack of resources and manpower.

You lot go on & on alot about government incompetence and this and that....why are dumb uk citiizens ever thinking gov ' gives a toss and knows what its doing ???
Airport lockdowns only just being thought of !! To little too late as usual.
This might be to get rid of cash payments / hide recession / destroy business / get rid of black market money / impose further powers etc or simply poor animal world getting us back in a good dose of karma.
As we gas pigs in slaughter houses were no better are we ?
Animals are treated terrible wherever u go in the globe.
Lets look at the facts ( i will round it up, the figures ) with 3 mil getn corona and say 300k dying of it , its only 10 per cent fatal.
Thats what banned david icke said months ago.
40k die of flu in uk every year.
Theres more goin on here . The manufactured problems itll cause are far more deeper.
No advice to the old on how to boost your immune system is there? Being old obese minority puts u at higher risk. Most people have had corona already . I think ive had it in feb.
The little hitlers tellin u to move round packed with idiots in masks shops are just silly and cops enjoying a third drop in crime says how as per usual how survile we are.
I dont know why we place so much importance on immunity injections as they are just as harmful as a virus in the first place. Look up phd doctor judy mikovits who went to jail in the usa for whistle blowing on big pharma for harming people with injections to supposedly help them.
Unless i really really need any drugs i dont take them.
And by the way no wonder care homes in uk are rife...alot are run for profit costly business with mim wage staff , some cost a grand a week , yet theres no on site staff 24 / 7 just an intercom. Sad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9jXnZS3ouU

I for one do not blame the government but your statement above is saying it is the governments fault.


I don't know where you get your figures but they are way off.
"Public Health England estimates that on average 17,000 people have died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19. However, the yearly deaths vary widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19. Public Health England does not publish a mortality rate for the flu"
Now look at that high of 28,330, this coronavirus has overtook that number in just a few months.
In fact, the US has figures that have ranged from 12k to 61k deaths from the flu, and their number of deaths is now at 79,696 from coronavirus in just a few months.
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/


I agree and I feel there needs to be more antibody tests so we can get a real number of confirmed cases, because a lot have self isolated with symptons and not been confirmed as having covid-19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5k2hdPc10&t=255s

Mikeebee....you dont get my point . We always look, like religion externally , towards obvious incompetent government for answers....they dont have any theyre idiots , always have been.
To overcome everything the answer doesnt lie with fools..Maybe we will now realise lookin to tory or labour for things to go right were actually wasting our time.
Uk is great at being hysterical about everything.
The average risk is v low to catch & die with covid.
Im sure in 2018 the same no in uk died of flu as of corona. 30k.
Give or take a few thousand.
Its 61 on the list of deaths / risks by virus in the world.
Being fat . Drinking. Smoking. Eating crap . Not exercising is far more bad for u....britain loves all of those.
Mark my words the financial effect will be longer / greater than mass of bodybags !

I take it by calling Govt idiots that you have a higher opinion of yourself than them.. In which case why do you not believe that people with perhaps the same values as yourself may want to change the country for the better and enter into politics and governance.
I dont particularly like politics and perhaps the only reason i would think them fools is that they have actually gone into politics in the first place.

Every death matters, they aren't just numbers. Comparing two types of death is questionable, saying that more people die of cancer than murder doesn't mean that murder doesn't matter.

No its the public ; after years and years of getting taxes raped / death of young sons & daughters in war we dont want / getting money robbed off them , their pensions / penalties and being sold off treaty wise to the EU & business wise all to the highest bidder all over the world and exporting hardly nothing and importing everything ; still vote as if that rigged " system " will change..... I AM smart enough to know it wont.

Ironically the covid mantra is " were all in this together "
Ha cameron told us that during the raping 10 years ago.

People here are just like the yanks ....dumb ill consumer robots stuck to phones & obessed with media & consumption. Sad.

True but with say 4 mil gettin corona and only 40k dying its not the rabid virus its meant to be.
58 million people die each year.. on earth .
Wearing a mask round tesco wont make a jot of difference. Even virus " experts " agree.
If i was 75 with dirty hands 20 stone who eats sugar all day or got zero immune system id be scared but im not.
Your body is your own responsibility ..634 000 died in the uk in 2019 and 2.9 million in the usa....most wont be corona. Its just facts..
Weve got to calm down.

Just one more point....one of the worse things in our corrupt mp world is that people soon forget that mps jeered & clapped NHS not getting a rise in 2017 but their pay always goes up year on year.
60k to 80 k in last 10 yrs.
Yet they stand the hypocrites they are clapping on doorsteps now .
The FBU via firefighters have taken the gov ' to court for 5 years to get the pension theyve paid in for in a 30 yr career. Dont forget useless tosser may former PM boo- fest from the police as she changed their pay !

Anyone watch Boris and his cowardly lion speech? gone the fluffy headed jolly japes, an attempt made with the hairstyle to give an air of authority, then the Churchill speech full of ambiguity, but basically throwing the onus onto the population, words like actively encouraged, stay safe, stay alert, what he really meant was go on take a chance nudge, nudge, wink wink this reeks of Dominic Cummings.

Well in this instance I'm inclined to agree with you Casper. I think it's herd immunity with collateral damage.
It's such a hard situation because we and indeed the world needs to get going again.

I don't like this message he has given really but god what do you do , I don't think the kids should go back to school yet , at least leave it now till maybe September when we might have a clearer idea.
I won't be doing anything much different than I have but then I am of the older generation so I will have to make my own actions. . I wouldn't like to be Boris or anyone having to face these terrible decisions for everyone.

What is the best way to ease the lockdown ? ' Stay at Home' didn't seem to have an impact on a huge number of the population as we well know. 'Don't socialise' , didn't have much impact either. People having friends around for drinky poos in their gardens ! Kids riding around on bikes as groups together. We've seen it all and we have been critical of such .

After 'Stay at Home ' and moving forward , what would be a better guidance ? We will still keep social distancing, we are mostly all aware of the implications should we not follow the social distancing. We will continue to wash hands, and now masks are available, I;m sure there will be a lot more people wearing them.

Any arrivals into the UK over the last 7/8 weeks would have been quarantined or self isolating along with the rest of the abiding population. To now reinforce quarantine for people arriving on flight arrivals, makes sense.

Not sure about those returning to work, but businesses , manufacturing will surely be making their own arrangements for those who return to work. Boris has not said people should go back to work, his words ' if it's possible' , and if people can work from home then continue to do so. .

Some school children might go back to school at the beginning of July .

So basically, apart from the incoming flight he's leaving the overall decisions to individuals, company and businesses.

He's being very much more cautious than some of the European countries .

I must admit, the different positions between England , Wales and Scotland are more confusing . Particularly if people are moving across borders,

I'd go with the herd immunity policy which, for some reason, they have distanced themself from.
Let's get everything back up and running.

In March a Great Nephew and Niece flew over from Norway to attend a Funeral, when they arrived at the airport in Norway they were checked for Temperature etc and told when they returned 3 days later they would have to go into quarantine for 14 days, when they arrived here they just walked in, no questions, no nothing, why didn't we enforce quarantine weeks ago?, bit late now.

You are quite right granny not a lot of impact indeed, so now people are being encouraged to mingle a little bit more, not to continue to stay at home, but to stay alert, control the virus and save lives, the lines are becoming increasingly blurred through lack of clarity, as for the return to work I don't recall the words if possible, but I do remember him very clearly saying " that from Monday people should be actively encouraged to return to work in certain industries" this was then changed to Wednesday the following day, giving employers little time to prepare for a safe working environment, the wearing of masks, we were told that masks offer no protection! now the advice is changing, Boris did say because of our actions we have avoided a catastrophe, really over 32,00 dead and still rising the highest in Europe, although Dominic Raab denied this saying that this is pure speculation, what was that saying arse and elbow?

Have you seen France's lifting of certain restrictions ? As from today they have got zones. Colour coded zones.

Have a read through this, far too confusing :

FRANCE

The red zone will comprise four regions making up the northeast of France (including Paris and its suburbs), as well as the Indian Ocean territory of Mayotte. Altogether, 32 of France’s 101 départements – home to 27 million people – will remain in the red.

For now, though, the government has imposed few additional restrictions on red areas, preferring to leave specifics to local authorities. For the week of May 11, parks and gardens are the only public places that will reopen in green zones but not red, unless otherwise specified by mayors or prefects. Travel between the two zones is allowed, as long as it respects the 100-kilometre limit. And primary schools in both zones will gradually begin to reopen, at local authorities’ discretion.

The gap between the two zones will widen on May 18, when middle schools in the green zone should begin to reopen, while those in the red won’t. At the beginning of June, the difference between the two zones is expected to grow further. At that point, Philippe said, high schools, bars, and restaurants in the green zone may be able to reopen, but not in départements still marked as red.

Schools are one of the biggest flash points in the government’s reopening plans. Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer has affirmed that 80 to 85 percent of primary schools will reopen as soon as Tuesday, May 12, with roughly 1 million children set to return to school. This will mark the first step toward a full reopening of the education system
More here :
https://www.france24.com/en/20200509-france-prepares-to-ease-covid-19-lockdown-what-you-need-to-know

Take into consideration that France had more deaths than UK in the last 24hrs. Has done less tests than UK has and less tests per million population.

The vunerable self isolate for 12 weeks but what happens on week 13? They have stayed indoors but now go out , perhaps a reduce immune system as no sunshine on them, the virus still here. They become the next batch to fill the Covid wards. The Nightingale Hospital was built for a reason..as was the temporary morgue in a London Park

Abit trivial this but if you can get hold of any vitimin D capsules it would be a good thing to take. Recommended by one of the tv docs a few weeks ago as it good fir immune system . Mind you the weather been so good think we all getting a good dose of sunshine but a little extra all helps..

Unfortunately fish the aged and infirm are the collateral damage, the acceptable casualties, the care homes a killing ground, this was said at the outbreak of the virus, basically treat the fittest first, many questions need to be answered over the governments (mis) handling of this crisis.

Vitamin D is essential to virtually everything the body does but it’s also toxic and dangerous.

If your body needs it and you are Caucasian, a small number of minutes in the sun will give you a controlled dose far more effectively than supplements.

We aren’t very good at absorbing Vitamin D orally but it is still easy to overdose.

Vitamin D is essential to virtually everything the body does but it’s also toxic and dangerous.

If your body needs it and you are Caucasian, a small number of minutes in the sun will give you a controlled dose far more effectively than supplements.

We aren’t very good at absorbing Vitamin D orally but it is still easy to overdose.

Well thanks for the warning DD but think I'll carry on taking mine.

Lockdown fines are set to rise to £100 in England from Wednesday, May 13.
Fines will double for each repeat offence, up to a maximum of £3,200.
This doesn't make sense, just as we are easing lockdown.
You can get on a train or bus, and sometimes you are unable to social distance, but you can't meet up with friends in a park and have a picnic. Honestly, the advice is terrible.

"The news comes as the body that represents rank-and-file police officers warned the Prime Minister’s relaxed lockdown guidance still risks being a set of “loose rules that are left open to interpretation” and is difficult to implement."

Link in the Wirral Globe

The regulations were designed to confuse, the lack of clarity is a hallmark of this government, it makes the truth hard to find, and the guilty even harder, and it is easier to deflect the blame onto someone or something else.

Considering SAGE are scientists, assessors and advisors, do you think Corbyn or Starmer would have chosen differently and who or which organisation might it have been ? Any ideas ?

It makes you wonder which advice or organisation, Wales, Scotland and NI are following.

Well we wont know will we? but lets hazard a guess, would they have followed the WHO advice that other countries took? test,trace contacts,quarantine,social distancing from the off,or would they do as the government did in the early decision making days of Feb and March to decide on herd immunity, at this time they were advised that not following WHO that it would be inevitable that most would get the disease, they then abandoned this approach because it became clear that the NHS would be overwhelmed leading to hundreds and thousands of deaths, precious time lost, we must also take into account the interference of politics and political advisers, and the reluctance to look to Europe, instead run to America and take notice of an imbecile that thinks drinking dettol will do the job.

Precious time lost ? It wasn;t declared a pandemic until 11th March. Lockdown 10 days later. We had Swine Flu, that was classified as a pandemic by WHO and I don't remember any lockdown, precautionary measures or even advice. The fact it didn't take off in the same way, was not something anyone could have concluded at the onset.
We went to work and didn't really think twice about it. Handled money , coughed and sneezed, didn't wear gloves or face masks. Why were we not advised to do so ?

Moving on, Kier Starmer asked about Austria, Portugal, Norway, Denmark and why their cases were so different. What a plonker !
Austria , 9 million, Portugal 10 million, Norway 5 million , Denmark 6 million populations. Total 30 million.
LONDON 9 million , UK 67 million. with numerous cities of high density.
Poland were fining people who disobeyed the Stay at Home .. between £1000 and £5000 . Had our government put that in place, that would have caused an uproar too.

Half a million live in Liverpool, and when people want to refrain from following the guidelines, then the words 'common sense ' doesn't even register. Do we have to be told 'common sense' , or maybe that's another liberty the country would prefer to see handed over to the Government .

You know very well the difficulties of obtaining the right PPE, amazingly it's all available to buy on the internet ! Face masks, gloves, shields, the lot. Care homes have Agency Staff, could they have taken it into the place of work ? Of course they could have , different people every day.

I'm fed up with the whole lot to be honest , the moans, the groans the deliberate management of pitting the public against each other by the media, and I know exactly what will happen next. Schools... let's kick off about the possibility , yes possibility of schools going back. They have in other countries , so why not here, possibly in another 6 weeks ?

Scotland and Wales, clearly decided to make their announcements first in regard to lifting the lockdown, which they didn't ,but that's up to them. Scotland is not out of the woods yet considering the North East has quite a substantial caseload, as has North West, Midlands and London..
Plus all the figures are skewed from different countries and to try to make it into a competition is clearly bad practice and callous.

One more point. When numbers of deaths in Care Homes are reported by the media, it's interesting to note when they actually refer the deaths resulting from Covid 19 and when they actually refer the deaths resulting from Coronavirus. Two different spectrums and as Coroners atm do not have to have such deaths reported to them , then how much is a convenience of entering 'cause of death' as coronavirus ?

quote " Although coroners and the
coroner service locally are an integral component of the LRF, planning for these
situations clearly goes much wider than simply addressing coroner matters; it will
also involve the practicalities of dealing with all those deaths which are not required
in law to be reported to the coroner. In the case of COVID-19, that could be the
majority of such deaths "

A more relevant question is whether you think Corbyn would have thrown those in care and their carers to the wolves?

As to SAGE, their advice to the Government is confidential, how the Government use or abuse that advice is purely down to the Government, they do not have to follow the SAGE advice nor do SAGE have to give a clear cut recommendation.

The common cold is pandemic, declaring something a pandemic is purely a random administrative term, it is of no medical significance, it is only used and needed by international bodies not national bodies such as Governments.

.
Austria: 0.0069% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of the disease 3.9%

Denmark 0.0092% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 5.0%

India: 0.0002% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 3.3%

Norway:0.0042% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 2.8%

Portugal: 0.011% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 4.2%

UK: 0.049% of population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 14.4%

I included India as their population density is way above ours, especially in their major cities, the rest of the figures speak for themselves and show that regardless of the size of the population the UK have performed exceedingly poorly compared to most other countries.

So while Kier Starmer may be a plonker, he wasn't on this occasion.



The UK put woolly and illogical rules in place, it is obvious that you are going to get a woolly compliance when you do that.


No, it is exposing the callous Government we have, people's lives have just become a statistic which they believe they can bluff out. They are murderers.


The only deaths not reported to the Coroner are those where the cause of death is 100% clear and unequivocal. If the Doctor is not 100% sure of the cause of death, he has to report it to the Coroner, by default deaths are reported to the Coroner, not reporting them is the exception.

Well you can say what you like, they mostly gave advice to be followed . Why do people behave like babies these days. Being spoon fed and having to have the ABC instructions ? Tell me ?

So common cold is a pandemic, and declaring something as a pandemic is just an administrative thing ? That's what you say, so therefore why on earth should Government be blamed for NOT ACTING SOONER. It was surely just an ADMINISTRATIVE term ?

Guidance was given, if people preferred not to follow it, then their choice. Populations , if you want to go into various other areas have a look at the land mass per country , it gives an idea of how people are cramped together . For some reason , nobody seems to think that's part of the cause. You haven't queried or condemned that bit of my post. !

Of course the figures are skewed . 'Sever cases' in UK hasn't changed for the last 4 weeks, its still on 1559 . Check it out daily, it doesn't change.
They haven't enough doctors in India, they're all over here so they probably don't even know how many are dead. That was a really bad comparison, DD.

Not interested in the anti- government approach to all of this. Everybody seems to carry an angry head these days, everyone seems to think they can do better, but ha ha! lets wait and see what happens when this has petered out . Along come the next lot of moaners about the country being back in recession. I know it's not normal to give any credit or acknowledgement of any form, that is evident in every walk of life today. If you said your uncle was Winston Churchill, you can be sure that nobody would even mention it (not with the inverted snobbery of the north) . They would see and pretend they hadn't seen. But, if you said your uncle was Karl Marx, then you would be smothered with love and adulation.
That's how this country has gone.. left, left and more left. But the continued pattern of Corbyn's challenging and confrontational skills, won't do anyone of the left an ounce of good. It's a dead duck and just gets a few quacks in response. The very reason that most people are extremely critical of BBC, SKY and ITV news reports these days. The public are sick of the lack of impartiality ,and that breeds discontent within a nation.

Celebrations of remembrance last week for 75 yrs since VE day. Those chaps and girls had far more strength than most today. They didn't moan, they didn't complain, they didn't see it as them being treated unfairly, or badly, or half starving on 2oz butter a week. They pulled together and won. They won in their hearts and minds too and became united.

Not here in this day and age.

Because they are being spoon fed, the Government should have provided truthful statements to the public from day one and applied rules that made sense. The Government was weak and spineless and scared of taking control and responsibility so they uttered nonsensical rubbish instead.


Because they ignored the extensive medical evidence.



The guidance was confusing, they gave 6 month MOT extensions to cars but there was no requirement for MOT stations to close. Many businesses closed that didn't need to because of the unclear messages. The self-employed were assured help but many that are entitled have still not received one penny, they have gone for months without an income and again are in purgatory because they don't know if their support is to be continued. they banned driving distances in cars but are now releasing that rule, neither makes sense whatsoever. They promoted public transport which was very high risk and now u-turned many weeks later.


Our Government still choose not to state the number of recoveries, for that reason there a number of derived columns in the Worldometer columns that aren't updated properly, however that doesn't affect any of the figures regarding deaths.


There is no shortage of doctors or administration in the high population density areas, that is one of there public health problems, the doctors all migrate to the Cities. Its only rural areas that have a shortage.


I thought you valued life.


When your own Government uses the words "punished" when referring to the way they will reclaim the money back off the population it is their choice, that is nothing less than declaring war on their own population. There are ways and means of recovering that money but a Tory Government will disproportionally choose to punish the masses.


One of my uncles was John Reid, if that helps whatever point you are trying to make????


You've used that term before, I fail to understand where it has come from, Corbyn was criticised by many, including you, of being an irrelevant, ineffective wet lettuce. Now you are saying he was strong and powerful????

It wasn't declared a pandemic, but the government knew of the consequences of a likely pandemic and the advice given by WHO to China and other countries, yet chose to ignore it why didn't they start putting a plan into place as a precaution? What did SAGE do? they also knew it was coming, were they over ruled by bad advice from the political side which goes back to Dominic Cummings remarks, of course these remarks were denied well if you look at it now they would be.

I think its a bit rich to blame the general public, if the government failed to take it seriously why would the public? the lock down wasn't enforced, because we didn't have the manpower to enforce it, a sadly depleted police force that cant cope with day to day crime as it is, the forces depleted and overstretched, they couldn't of handled any civil unrest, of course now the government have the opportunity to direct blame elsewhere.

You speak of the spirit during the war years, we knew what the enemy was, what he was capable of due to his actions in other countries, we knew there was a possibility of an invasion we got ready for it, how has this government motivated us? the front line starved of equipment, confusing information and instructions, but there was during the war those that would seek to claim fame by gambling with the lives of others.

That explains the staunch backing of Labour

The NHS wasn't overwhelmed so, maybe it is the lifestyle for the majority of deaths and why the mortality rate is so high, just a thought.


Anyway, I don't blame the Government.

It is too easy to blame the Government for everything. I for one, reckon the Government took it very seriously. I also agree with the easing of the lockdown and think Wales, Scotland and NI should have followed suit, but hey-ho, what do I know.
These are divisive times we are living in at the moment.

This antibodies test seems like good news, at least a positive step I think. Does anybody else think that this virus was around end of last year? I have heard so many people say they had the same symptoms as this , me included, at this time. I remember the tirednesss and cough and saying to my family " like no flu I've ever had". It didn't last long but if this test becomes available to me I will definitely take it. I don't know whether it would tell you if it's too long ago or what . Obviously we will learn more about the antibody test as time goes by..

I've also heard this a lot, it was just flu at the end of last year because the mortality rate doesn't tie-up with coronavirus. its relatively easy for flu to turn into pneumonia. It wasn't even coincidental, it was the regular flu season and we continued to have a large number of flu cases throughout the start of coronavirus.

Well DD, You didn't say anything really in your previous post in response to mine. Not sure what points you were trying to make really. Being challenging and confrontational didn't make Corbyn strong . What gave you that idea ? It was all he could offer , every Wednesday in PMQ's.

I take it you mean Baron Reid of Cardowan ? A member of the UK 'Scottish' Government of Tony Blair ? Uncle ? He must have been a bit of a kid when you were born then ? Well, just like so many other Labour MP's he started off in the Communist Party. Congratulation anyway, my Gt grandfather was a 'Sir' and he entertained Lloyd George in his parlour to afternoon tea. I suppose Baron is a rank or few higher than a 'Sir', but I won't hold that against you.

However, it has to be said that you and Casper have obviously broken through Hadrians wall at some point , so maybe we must accept the Scottish anti -Tory sentiment, it is the norm for north of the border. Maybe it would be better if Scotland breaks away, I dare say it would also please you.. Good grief ! Who would want to be Governed by a Tory if they didn't have to be ?

Just as a matter if interest , when you quote percentages for specific purposes, how about covid cases per million population ?

Spain 584
Belgium 768
Italy 519
UK 495
US 262

So does that make it better ? No it does not, but population intensity seems to be something that neither you or Casper can come to terms with as a huge part of the ongoing numbers.
How is it that Care Homes still have cases? They've been in lockdown for 7/8 weeks now. No visitors, so where is it coming from ? The patients won't be passing it onto the care staff , not if the homes are following all the guidelines.

After that, I suppose I have to grovel and tell you I love you too. Love you. Casper seems to have taken the huff with me. I can tell in the words he uses.

Yep. A few people at the beginning of this year in January. No deaths related to it though. One friend was knocked up for weeks, and is absolutely terrified of getting Covid 19. She knows she won't survive it. So has she had it already ? We wouldn't know, but she picked it up from her granddaughter..

I've not followed what's gone on inside Belgium but been watching their basic stats for a long time, not good at all.

We will overtake Italy and probably just sneak ahead of Spain by August on the rates stats unless they are unfortunate enough to have major second waves that we avoid.

The population density of our major cities is not higher than most other major cities in Europe. Attempts at amalgamating stats was a bit fruitless because the classification is somewhat different in some countries, most pan-European stats count towns and cities as cities by the look of it hence France and UK have about 1000 cities whereas I think we only classify 59 for UK.

But Netherlands as a country has the highest population density in Europe and has some very dense cities. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are way ahead of us on population density both city-wise and country-wise.

I was reading the analysts report the other day on what was influencing factors for Coronavirus. Temperature has little effect, population density has a large effect followed by testing and travel.

New Zealand has done very well in locking down the virus but what does that leave it in the future? Permanent fear and controls? The 1990 pandemic of swine flu has now become our regular winter flu, its no longer a novel virus and so we have some built in immunity. Herd immunity or something similar with a different name does seem to be the only realistic long term strategy for coronavirus but I'm sure some relieving treatments (not cures) can be found in the shorter term which could improve outcomes.

The smoking stats across a number of countries are showing that it must be giving some protection either directly or indirectly. Likewise a surprisingly number of aged COPD suffers have unexpectedly made recovery from coronavirus. Adding those two things together plus some observations about ibuprofen makes you wonder if the common factor is people having inflamed lungs have some protection? Pure conjecture of course but its joining anomalies together.

Anyways, I'm a bit behind on the CV stuff now, I've had some other projects on the go and I've not even caught up on the new lockdown rules so I'll probably bow out of this one now, I haven't got the research time any longer.

And of course, I love you too granny ..... without grovelling...

[q

After that, I suppose I have to grovel and tell you I love you too. Love you. Casper seems to have taken the huff with me. I can tell in the words he uses.



[/quote]

Oh stop it granny, you know I still love you.

Sir Patrick Vallance the government chief scientific adviser said to keep the R number below one and control the virus, it is vital that people stay alert and continue to follow the latest government guidelines to the full.

Matt Hancock said the R number was an incredibly important figure but we don't think it is above one.


Government guidelines

Please stop waffling about useless & incompetent government....waste of breath.
Go to joe rogans youtube and watch doctor rhonda patrick talk about vitamin D .
Its not dangerous as said on here even at 50,000 ius . Trials with K2 with dark skin peoples started year ago.
Interesting points on somalis in sweden with chronic low vit D and how it controls hormone production & body protection.
Zero advice from scummy torys about helping your body is there !?

Not just the humans. 44 elephants have been found dead in Botswana. Unknown causes. Ruling out anthrax or poisons as they would also kill jackals and others that feed on the carcasses. Waiting for post mortem results.


"" Okavango Elephants death toll rise to 44
The death toll in the Okavango Panhandle elephants has risen to 44.

Yesterday 36 carcasses were counted from which 14 carcasses were discovered 40 kilometres from Seronga catchment villages, the epicentre of all carcasses discoveries so far.

Today 8 new discoveries were made taking the overall count to 44 elephants. The count is still ongoing.""

Should the children go back to school ? I'm not sure if it's good or bad just yet. My thoughts go to the children who have been locked up in homes where domestic violence might have been. They will be desperate to get out.

Maybe it should be left to parents to make a decision for a period of time.

Perhaps have a limited number of kids in school at any one time so each one does two day a week. Both the pupils and staff need to be protected, discipline is going to be a problem, yet another weapon in the tyke's armoury against both staff and other pupils.

It has to be assessed on a very localised basis not at national scale.

I see Wirral Council have come down heavily against the 1st June

I see the blame game has started,Therese Coffey the work and pensions secretary has blamed its coronavirus mistakes on wrong scientific advice, stating I'm not surprised people think we made the wrong decision.

In response Public Health England insisted Matt Hancock's Department of health was responsible for ordering the governments testing strategy, shouldn't it be Matt H making these allegations? oh maybe not it would invite some awkward questions, speaking of, where is Boris? is being kept out of the way in case he does a Trump, latest figures show around 44,000 deaths and still rising.

All sorts of figures are being floated around, it's getting more and more complicated to follow the graphs that are being delivered on a daily basis. I thought 41,000 was the figure mentioned for death certificates, but could be wrong.

Bad and as tragic as they are , we continue to judge by the number of deaths as a comparison to EU countries . When looking at the cases for each country in Europe, it would seem the other countries have a higher percentage of recoveries to the UK. That, I believe should be questioned. Why have there been more recoveries elsewhere ?

It was mentioned in April that UK could reach 40,000 but that was the forecast for the first wave and suggested there could be 4 or 5 waves . That is very worrying and when certain countries are now pushing tourism, because it's one of the biggest money spinners to build their economy again, then I think we can expect this as an ongoing pandemic for a long time.

France has had to shut down some of the schools they re-opened, this was 100% predicted by everyone except the politicians. Macron in the meantime has lost his majority, major protest in the streets, a lot of turmoil in France generally. Surely that ends Macron's ambition of becoming the EU's figurehead.

Things won't and can't return to normal, the politicians need to earn their salaries and think about new ways of working instead of putting soundbites together.

I read somewhere yesterday that there is an antibody test that was about to go on sale but I can't find that information today.
I wonder how true this is?

I would be interested in this test and would buy one if not too dear. The last I heard was they were advising not to buy unless passed by NHS I think . Soppose eventually they will be able to buy from maybe Boots and such places.

Off Sky News
"Simpler "finger prick" type tests for antibodies that could be carried out at home are being looked at as well but currently none have yet been approved for use."
Unsure when they will be available to the wider public because they want to test every fronline worker before anyone else.

Apparently this virus can be transmitted by farts ! Is 2 meters social distancing enough ?

10 metres from me when I fart

Oh Granny, I had a good laugh at your message.

My American friend said, if a fart can get through 2 bum cheeks, a pair of panties and a pair of jeans, then a mask will not protect anyone from getting coronavirus! This was her joke of course!

Hahaha !

The person I heard it from, said that just like the cotton masks are better at preventing the spread, if we should wear cotton knickers or underpants the protection would be greater !. That was when I went in to hysterics, but that same person actually believed it !!

Give us plenty of warning when you are out and about, Mikeeb.

I hope this isn't true, I could have infected Wallasey and destroyed the ozone layer, my comic cuts have been overactive lately.

Are you bragging , Casper ? Maybe you're the reason why our peninsular in known as 'windy Wirral ' ?

We can't really cough now to disguise the sound, as a cough would draw more attention than a fart, difficult times, perhaps they could design some anti trumpet trousers.

It’s such an ugly word “Fart”, but luckily many people have their own euphemisms for it, a lovely old neighbour of mine who hailed from Bolton called it “Dropping your clog”, my personal favourite is “Botty Burp”. Any more?

well off topic I know, after 31 years of marriage I can honestly say I have never heard my wife fart whilst her sister is a champion farter who can fart at will. Loud and proud.