Why can't we leave without a deal and just arrange one after we've gone, like we plan to do with other countries?
I don't understand why the 'backstop' can't be given a time scale, and if no resolve within 12 months, extend it another 12 months to a maximum of say 5 yrs. Surely an alternative would be found by then ?
I think the public are beginning to get really angry now.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
did it specify anywhere that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave with or without a deal, were we given a choice? many people are happy to leave with a deal but that choice is being denied them by the Boris coup d 'etat,
Boris and many others would be more than happy with a fair deal, the main crunch being that the EU can't continue to have legal control over us (other than through normal international law).
There is no question that after a no deal Brexit occurring the EU and the UK will negotiate deals after the event.
What we don't want is a single package, there will be far too many compromises. The main thing the EU wanting to squeeze in is the free movement of people, this implicitly gives them legal control over us. They lie when they say a trade deal is impossible without the free movement of people, they have been negotiating trade deals with many other countries without including the free movement of people.
Exactly. If this Brexit is somehow overturned, then we will be the prison house of Europe, we will have a country overtaken by Islam, or at least our laws will favour them , Health Care will be controlled by the EU, ( already in the pipeline); Education will be set down by the EU (already in the pipeline, ) ; our farmers to whom the EU pays subsidies to, will see their land become EU controlled land ; our youngters will be in line for a European Army, whether we agree with EU aggression or not ; we will have more Officials from ex eastern block ex Communist States sitting in positions of dictating what we can or cannot do ; more Officials from Muslim Countries (we have quite a number now) sitting in positions of dictating how we have to have more Mosques built and all inclusive laws, paid for by Saudi Arabia ; our taxes, pensions and benefits will all be controlled from the EU, a total lack of housing for ever ; there will be only one religion as the Christian churches and values are being continually undermined, the best of our industries will be sold out so we are totally reliable on Germany, and my father plus many of the war heroes and dead of the last two world wars would break their hearts to think that our Sovereignty that they fought so hard for has been thrown away to Corbynites . If he thinks he can have any standing in a future EU , then he is seriously delusional.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
did it specify anywhere that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave with or without a deal, were we given a choice? many people are happy to leave with a deal but that choice is being denied them by the Boris coup d 'etat,
Boris and many others would be more than happy with a fair deal, the main crunch being that the EU can't continue to have legal control over us (other than through normal international law).
There is no question that after a no deal Brexit occurring the EU and the UK will negotiate deals after the event.
What we don't want is a single package, there will be far too many compromises. The main thing the EU wanting to squeeze in is the free movement of people, this implicitly gives them legal control over us. They lie when they say a trade deal is impossible without the free movement of people, they have been negotiating trade deals with many other countries without including the free movement of people.
Exactly. If this Brexit is somehow overturned, then we will be the prison house of Europe, we will have a country overtaken by Islam, or at least our laws will favour them , Health Care will be controlled by the EU, ( already in the pipeline); Education will be set down by the EU (already in the pipeline, ) ; our farmers to whom the EU pays subsidies to, will see their land become EU controlled land ; our youngters will be in line for a European Army, whether we agree with EU aggression or not ; we will have more Officials from ex eastern block ex Communist States sitting in positions of dictating what we can or cannot do ; more Officials from Muslim Countries (we have quite a number now) sitting in positions of dictating how we have to have more Mosques built and all inclusive laws, paid for by Saudi Arabia ; our taxes, pensions and benefits will all be controlled from the EU, a total lack of housing for ever ; there will be only one religion as the Christian churches and values are being continually undermined, the best of our industries will be sold out so we are totally reliable on Germany, and my father plus many of the war heroes and dead of the last two world wars would break their hearts to think that our Sovereignty that they fought so hard for has been thrown away to Corbynites . If he thinks he can have any standing in a future EU , then he is seriously delusional.
Some of what you have written is pure fallacy granny, the European army, health care, although certain eu directives will affect some aspects indirectly, taxes ,pensions, they cant control, really check your facts, we already have mosques built here via Saudi Arabia allowed to grease the palms for the arms industry, the best of our industries have long been sold off, now I wonder who benefited from that ? the NHS our armed forces, police, social services run into the ground, Corbyn isn't the Labour party, you know the Labour party that gave us the NHS and so many other things since then for the benefit of all, a land fit for heroes, not a land for the shysters, the bankers and asset strippers, the much wants more brigade.
The European Army already exists. The EU are currently working on the European VAT harmonisation program. The EU has got harmonisation of all taxes in their sights. All our laws have to be scrutinized by the EU to see if they conflict with their principles or regulations (ask Poland!). The EU do control pensions of some Countries (ask Greece!).
Last edited by diggingdeeper; 6th Sep 201911:41am.
There's a real danger that the left will drag Britain back to the 1970s, with secure well-paid jobs, ample housing, properly-funded NHS and social care, free tuition, student grants, final salary pensions, affordable rail fares and fabulous films and music. David Osland 2025
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The European Army already exists. The EU are currently working on the European VAT harmonisation program. The EU has got harmonisation of all taxes in their sights. All our laws have to be scrutinized by the EU to see if they conflict with their principles or regulations (ask Poland!). The EU do control pensions of some Countries (ask Greece!).
Yes the European army does exist, the UK has a veto and therefore is not required to be a part of any such venture, however we do work closely with our allies in Europe, as you can imagine our perceived enemy Russia borders on a lot of EU members countries, its quite easy to make statements that may imply such changes without detail ie: a sentence or headline can appear misleading as to the content, Greece was overpaying itself, people retiring early with full pension and taking up another job, taking the piss, we only see what we want to see.
Greece was overpaying itself, people retiring early with full pension and taking up another job, taking the piss, we only see what we want to see.
When there are large numbers of unemployed people it makes sense to encourage people to retire early. It is better that the young have jobs than the old.
The UK is encouraging people to retire later (new state Pension scheme increases your payment if you continue to work past state retirement age without taking the state pension). This is silly as there is a large shortage of jobs (if you ignore the Government stats that hide the numbers by counting anyone working more than one hour a week as being employed and those in "training" as not being unemployed)
Over 10% of UK pensioners have a job (about 1.2 million people), it is not taking the piss, taking the state pension and being employed are not related other than both are counted as incomes for tax and benefit purposes.
Originally Posted by casper
Yes the European army does exist, the UK has a veto and therefore is not required to be a part of any such venture, however we do work closely with our allies in Europe, as you can imagine our perceived enemy Russia borders on a lot of EU members countries, its quite easy to make statements that may imply such changes without detail ie: a sentence or headline can appear misleading as to the content.
Whether the UK takes part or not will not stop the further formation of the EU army which is well on its way, in reality we have extensively co-operated with the idea despite not formally tying ourselves to it. Further than that the EU-NATO agreement means that the EU can influence NATO which we are committed to.
There's a real danger that the left will drag Britain back to the 1970s, with secure well-paid jobs, ample housing, properly-funded NHS and social care, free tuition, student grants, final salary pensions, affordable rail fares and fabulous films and music. David Osland 2025
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Greece was overpaying itself, people retiring early with full pension and taking up another job, taking the piss, we only see what we want to see.
When there are large numbers of unemployed people it makes sense to encourage people to retire early. It is better that the young have jobs than the old.
The UK is encouraging people to retire later (new state Pension scheme increases your payment if you continue to work past state retirement age without taking the state pension). This is silly as there is a large shortage of jobs (if you ignore the Government stats that hide the numbers by counting anyone working more than one hour a week as being employed and those in "training" as not being unemployed)
Over 10% of UK pensioners have a job (about 1.2 million people), it is not taking the piss, taking the state pension and being employed are not related other than both are counted as incomes for tax and benefit purposes.
Originally Posted by casper
Yes the European army does exist, the UK has a veto and therefore is not required to be a part of any such venture, however we do work closely with our allies in Europe, as you can imagine our perceived enemy Russia borders on a lot of EU members countries, its quite easy to make statements that may imply such changes without detail ie: a sentence or headline can appear misleading as to the content.
Whether the UK takes part or not will not stop the further formation of the EU army which is well on its way, in reality we have extensively co-operated with the idea despite not formally tying ourselves to it. Further than that the EU-NATO agreement means that the EU can influence NATO which we are committed to.
Your missing the point DD, the Greeks were retiring at 55 on full pensions,( taking the piss) very nice if you can get it, there is a difference to people working here past retirement age to survive,( not taking the piss) the Greek economy was in dire straights so they had to be bailed out (overpaying themselves) who in their right mind would bail someone out with that going on without strict terms? but you already know that.
My response about the European Army was quite correct, if they wish to form an army fine, but we have no obligation, our kids will not be conscripted as granny suggested, scaremongering by the Tory press again.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
[quote=diggingdeeper][quote=casper]Greece was overpaying itself, people retiring early with full pension and taking up another job, taking the piss
I still don't get it?
Most EU countries now have retirement ages the same as us (Greece is more than ours at the moment) but get much more pension, in the past we generally have had the worst of both worlds and find it difficult to judge other countries with what seems to us as a better deal.
Did more than 10% of pensioned Greeks have a second job? With high unemployment it seems unlikely especially as they had a reasonable pension. Of those, how many were actually the old tax fiddle of spreading "employment" around the family in family run businesses, something that is also rife in this country even before retirement age.
There's a real danger that the left will drag Britain back to the 1970s, with secure well-paid jobs, ample housing, properly-funded NHS and social care, free tuition, student grants, final salary pensions, affordable rail fares and fabulous films and music. David Osland 2025
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Anyway, back to Brexit, one of our very few referendums will on Monday be over-ruled. Democracy yet again walked straight over. We will now become the Dalit of the EU, thanks guys!
Getting Boris into power all makes sense now, the whole ploy was to cancel Brexit.
There's a real danger that the left will drag Britain back to the 1970s, with secure well-paid jobs, ample housing, properly-funded NHS and social care, free tuition, student grants, final salary pensions, affordable rail fares and fabulous films and music. David Osland 2025
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The Greeks were starving, and couldn't pay their electricity bills. They used less and the companies raised the prices (not to lose their profits. Sound familiar ? ) He came into office after the protests, and Merkel immediately took him under her wing and corrupted him . What did he ever do for the people who elected him ? Nothing ! My son lived in Greece for a while, so I know how hard it was for them.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Tsipras didn't have much choice, Merkel held financial power over Greece and she totally abused that power. The end result? Virtually complete asset stripping of Greece, they will never own their own country ever again and are stuck as a puppet nation.
What is most annoying is the lack of empathy by Germany, they were helped to rebuild and restructure after WW2 with crazy amounts of money written off and yet Germany didn't return the favour to Greece.
If we get out the EU I would like to think in time we would offer Greece an escape route/lifeline. Other than the ridiculous issue over the Elgin Marbles our two countries have been close allies for many years.
There's a real danger that the left will drag Britain back to the 1970s, with secure well-paid jobs, ample housing, properly-funded NHS and social care, free tuition, student grants, final salary pensions, affordable rail fares and fabulous films and music. David Osland 2025
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Tsipras didn't have much choice, Merkel held financial power over Greece and she totally abused that power. The end result? Virtually complete asset stripping of Greece, they will never own their own country ever again and are stuck as a puppet nation.
What is most annoying is the lack of empathy by Germany, they were helped to rebuild and restructure after WW2 with crazy amounts of money written off and yet Germany didn't return the favour to Greece.
If we get out the EU I would like to think in time we would offer Greece an escape route/lifeline. Other than the ridiculous issue over the Elgin Marbles our two countries have been close allies for many years.
Regarding the Second World war, you could say the same about our country almost bankrupt after the war yet we still had to pay our debts off, whats the old adage, no sentiment in business, whilst Germany and Japan thrived practically rebuilt.
