WikiWirral its great, register, enjoy and welcome.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,028,557
Topics75,640
Members13,534
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs15
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
31 registered members (5020Chris, 8 invisible), 1,647 guests, and242 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
192 Boaty
New General Forums
UK Spies
by granny. 16th Oct 2020 7:00pm
You asked me.
by GingerTom. 12th Oct 2020 9:11am
What do you make of this ??
by granny. 5th Oct 2020 2:25pm
Remembrance day
by locomotive. 30th Sep 2020 7:21pm
New Wirral History
Wirral Way grids
by mikeeb. 24th Oct 2020 10:11am
North Star in Bentinck ST
by derekdwc. 14th Oct 2020 9:44pm
Road leading to Queensway tunnel
by chris58. 11th Oct 2020 10:11pm
Genealogical Research - Macmillan
by Alex_Macmillan. 10th Oct 2020 11:57am
Poulton road sweet shop
by karl1972. 7th Oct 2020 11:21am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
Wirral Way grids
by pacef8. 24th Oct 2020 8:16pm
TV prob
by _Ste_. 24th Oct 2020 7:36pm
Scratch repairs
by _Ste_. 24th Oct 2020 7:24pm
Coastal Foraging??
by mikeeb. 24th Oct 2020 5:08pm
Angle grinder
by madrob. 23rd Oct 2020 6:34pm
road tax
by lincle. 23rd Oct 2020 4:33pm
126 North Star Hotel 332 Cleveland Street 332 Mars
by Lovelfc88. 23rd Oct 2020 4:05pm
Council services
by mikeeb. 23rd Oct 2020 10:59am
Boxed Super Nintendo console as new
by _Ste_. 22nd Oct 2020 7:45pm
October
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Living with universal 'wages' #1069618
9th Jun 2019 6:33pm
9th Jun 2019 6:33pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline OP

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline OP

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
Looks like if there was an election and Labour got in , John McDonnell is saying he would put Liverpool forward as a test area for a' universal basic income for everyone ' . I believe this failed in Finland , not sure about Canada , and Scotland are planning but yet to action it . Do you think it would work in Liverpool ,and would you like to see it in Wirral ?

Google Ads
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069632
9th Jun 2019 7:44pm
9th Jun 2019 7:44pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
It’s not just Labour, the Tories are looking at it as well.

The trial is doomed to failure because for some perverse reason it is going to be paying only half of what has been established as the minimum amount.

If anyone can give me some insight as to why they are trialing with half the amount I would amazed.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 9th Jun 2019 7:46pm.

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069639
9th Jun 2019 8:50pm
9th Jun 2019 8:50pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline OP

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline OP

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
I didn't know that . If it was a similar amount to universal credit, what would the difference be ? atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069644
9th Jun 2019 9:22pm
9th Jun 2019 9:22pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,458
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,458
Wirral


Maybe we'll all be on benefits soon then. How on earth can it be half of the minimal amount ? They tried this in a similar way with the Job Evaluation scheme rolled out nationally. A particular job would be paid within a certain grading . Many lost their jobs with that, many others got masses amount of back pay. It also reduced the jobs . i.e. if two people did the same job between them at £10,000 each, but one person could do the job for £19,000 , that was the one who won the prize. So that job was then classified as a £19,000 job.

I maybe on the wrong track , but I can't see it working. Why are we always having to face change after change after change ? No wonder no one can get their lives established and finances in order.

Of course , we know what McDonnell' s hideous ideas are and what they would lead to .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069666
9th Jun 2019 10:22pm
9th Jun 2019 10:22pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by venice
atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?


No, that's why it called universal, everybody except pensioners gets it unconditionally.

The majority of Governments want to introduce it as it makes a lot of sense even if it is counterintuative, however, there is a lot of opposition to it.

The small Finnish experiment didn't fail, nothing became worse, some things improved but employment levels didn't change.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069667
10th Jun 2019 12:35am
10th Jun 2019 12:35am
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,247
New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline
Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,247
New Brighton
They are all full of utter S**t!

Don't listen to a word they say. They are there to put you down not help you, i realised that 11 years ago and never looked back.

Tossers the lot of them.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069668
10th Jun 2019 12:45am
10th Jun 2019 12:45am
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,247
New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline
Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,247
New Brighton
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Don't be a sheep.


Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069677
10th Jun 2019 8:27am
10th Jun 2019 8:27am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,458
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,458
Wirral


Interesting Ste. My grandfather always told his children, " There's no such word as 'can't'.. you can if you try " .


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069678
10th Jun 2019 8:39am
10th Jun 2019 8:39am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,733
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,733
wirral
The real reason UBIs are being considered is to shore up the capitalist system.

When all workers are replaced by machines, and nobody gets paid, there will be no customers for what factories produce and the whole system will collapse. Solution: Print money and give it to the displaced workforce.This isn't as daft an idea as it sounds, given that the money spent will eventually come back as tax, and remember that although money cannot be created by you and me, it can and is created by governments at a sufficient rate to keep inflation at about 2%. This works out at increasing the amount of money by about 5 to 10% each and every year.

We are already at a stage where we can produce far more than is needed, which is why the huge advertising industry exists. (Around £23 billion in teh UK alone) It is there to persuade us we really need things that we don't like self-driving cars, pancake mix, and 'smart' egg boilers!

UBI seems to me inevitable, eventually, We will all be on 'benefits' which will be enough to live on. Those who have jobs too will be very few in number and be a lot richer.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069682
10th Jun 2019 11:48am
10th Jun 2019 11:48am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
That is the thing with UBI, it is attractive to both capitalists and socialists albeit for different reasons.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: diggingdeeper] #1069700
10th Jun 2019 5:35pm
10th Jun 2019 5:35pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline OP

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline OP

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
I read this and presumed withholding/cutting payment made the universal credit indirectly conditional ? ( the responsibilities I thought were actively looking and preparing for work etc and taking a job offer deemed suitable ?)

Q&A's
'Do you have to sign on with Universal Credit?'

'You may get a cut in your Universal Credit payment, known as a sanction, if you don't meet your responsibilities and can't give a good reason to explain why.'


Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by venice
atm you have to apply for and accept suitable work offered in order to get your universal credit - would you not have to do the same to get your basic income I wonder?


No, that's why it called universal, everybody except pensioners gets it unconditionally.

The majority of Governments want to introduce it as it makes a lot of sense even if it is counterintuative, however, there is a lot of opposition to it.

The small Finnish experiment didn't fail, nothing became worse, some things improved but employment levels didn't change.

Re: Living with universal 'wages' [Re: venice] #1069744
10th Jun 2019 11:09pm
10th Jun 2019 11:09pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,641
Birkenhead
Ah, yes, my mistake, didn't realise that UC also incorrectly uses Universal.

Universal credit is conditional on signing on if you work less than 35 hours a week or if you do not jump through the many and obscure hoops that they "ask" (demand) of you.

Universal Basic Income (which also has numerous other names) is unconditional other than age.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Coastal Foraging??
by shenniko. 24th Oct 2020 1:32pm
Wirral Way grids
by mikeeb. 24th Oct 2020 10:11am
Scratch repairs
by mikeeb. 23rd Oct 2020 12:29pm
Council services
by Excoriator. 22nd Oct 2020 3:29pm
Boaty
by oldpm01. 21st Oct 2020 4:02pm
For Sale & Free
Angle grinder
by madrob. 23rd Oct 2020 6:34pm
Building survey.
by Fidelio. 19th Oct 2020 3:00pm
WANTED...used garden roller
by spider. 15th Oct 2020 3:26am
Rally X Arcade Cabaret machine
by _Ste_. 9th Oct 2020 4:43am
PS4 games
by JWood. 8th Oct 2020 9:32pm
Member Spotlight
granny
granny
Wirral
Posts: 17,458
Joined: June 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
juneserridge, PhilP, andrewm5901, Gilly77, LeeGrace
13534 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Coastal Foraging??
by shenniko. 24th Oct 2020 1:32pm
Drone help
by madrob. 18th Oct 2020 9:59am
UK's worst Street Birkenhead
by mikeeb. 17th Oct 2020 11:46am
TV prob
by lincle. 16th Oct 2020 11:10am
road tax
by lincle. 13th Oct 2020 7:31am
News : New Topics
Council services
by Excoriator. 22nd Oct 2020 3:29pm
Boaty
by oldpm01. 21st Oct 2020 4:02pm
Wirral Crime August 2020
by diggingdeeper. 16th Oct 2020 5:19pm
Police activity - Storeton
by philmch. 15th Oct 2020 6:10pm
Mongoose bmx
by TheComputerLab. 4th Oct 2020 12:48pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Scratch repairs
by mikeeb. 23rd Oct 2020 12:29pm
Horse riding on the common
by karl1972. 15th Oct 2020 2:08pm
'Over Exposed' Boeing Superfortress crash site
by KevinFinity. 10th Oct 2020 9:19pm
Blitz: The bombs that changed Britain
by mikeeb. 30th Sep 2020 4:02pm
Woody
by lincle. 23rd Sep 2020 1:57pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sat 7:58am
Sunset Sat 5:54pm
Local Time Sat 8:53pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1