Forums Forums National News Inflation up again

One difference or two differences . i.e. Blair was PM for 10 yrs, Brown had 13 yrs at the top. 10 as Chancellor and 3 as PM. and Thatcher had almost 12 yrs as PM.

Mrs May had 5 yrs as Home Secretary and a little over 18 months as PM. Thrown in at the deep end when Cameron decided to do a runner, and faced with the result of the Referendum, of which nobody had any previous experience to deal with.

Battered ,criticized and attacked from all sides , mainly because there was an element who wanted their own agenda for the Brexit negotiations.

Nobody is a miracle worker, and wages have not gone down, it's just that they have not gone up in all areas with the cost of living. So people haven't had the cost of living rise but have had other increments.

That could also be due to the fact that many of the lower paid workers now have commission paid in addition to their salaries. Commission makes them work harder to get more results and then the management can have bigger bonuses at Christmas.

Who are the rich chums of 15% increase of what every year ? I don't know who you refer to .

The lion's share of the upward pressure came from air fares, which recorded a smaller drop between October and November at 10.4 per cent, compared with a 13.4 per cent fall over the period last year.

Computer games prices were also boosting everyday costs, as games, toys and hobbies lifted 3.7 per cent on an annual basis in November.

On the month, prices climbed by 2.2 per cent, compared with 0.7 per cent growth last year.

Food and non-alcoholic drinks prices pushed higher, picking up by 0.6 per cent month on month in contrast to a 0.5 per cent lift for the period in 2016.

Motorists were also facing higher fuel costs in November, with petrol up by 1.8p per litre month on month to 119.1p, and diesel rising by 2.3p a litre to 122.8p.

Why is this the Government's fault ?

The point of the EU is that people in Greece can, if they choose to do so, move to another country. 'Asset stripping'a country, therefore, makes little sense to anyone! Greece is part of the EU and will remain so. Ownership of the assets is of little interest to the people who live there. It makes little difference to the people involved in producing wine or olive oil, or who work in the tourism industry whether the owner is a German or a Greek.

In the UK, of course, we will soon not be part of the EU. This means that there will be every reason why UK based facilities will be shut down, or not invested in, by international companies, especially if there are tariff barriers to moving product to the EU. Whether you call this asset stripping is neither here nor there. The result will be the UK will have to buy more from the EU and make less and less. This will be done slowly, so as not to make headlines, but it will happen, depend on it.

You are wrong to blame Brown, by the way. Before the tories took over, the UK economy was growing again, thanks to his intervention after the banking crash. He went for investment rather than contraction, unlike the tories whose policy of austerity is what has damaged us so much.

As to your hopes that we will be able to shift them after we leave the EU, you can forget it. They meant what they said about taking back control, and they will do so. We will be totally in their hands, isolated from the EU, and unable to appeal to them for protection.

Ownership of the assets matters hugely to Greece, foreign ownership takes the money away from the country, much as what has happened to this country. If the money goes out, the country is made poorer.

If the Greek workers move to another country that certainly doesn't help Greece as a country either. The country has little choice between being Germany's bitch or leaving the EU. Huge unemployment problem and having loads of immigrants arriving creating an even bigger unemployed population.

Greece being a Schengen island doesn't help them either and many other EU countries are very glad that they are.

How on earth does it affect Greece who owns the business?

The Greek government makes money by taxing it whether it's owned by a Greek or a Pole or an Irishman. They also tax the workers, and although they are likely to be paid a lot less than the owner, there are more of them, so their contribution is a lot more.

Your analysis of the situation is based on a tribalist pre-globalisation view of the world. National boundaries are a lot less important now in many different ways. It is even very likely that the German owner (or shareholder) in a Greek olive oil company may choose to build himself a holiday villa in Greece, or extend his processing plant, returning much of his profit there.

Anyway, The Greeks have very sensibly chosen to stay inside the EU. Their future is a lot brighter than ours.

Absolute rubbish.

Population 11 million.-

Unemployment- 21%.

Poverty- 4 out of 10 children at risk.

Extreme poverty - 1.5 million.

Three quarters of a million middle class are now confronted with poverty.

Poverty gone up 40% since 2008

The fact that 'Tourism' is classed as one of their main industries, I imagine that could be affected quite drastically, due to the influx of migrants on their shores. Hotels given over to refugees and migrants. Thus destroying the local tourism industry. Greece being a nation of shop keepers , it's probably hit them very hard. Not much tax coming out of those little business.

Glad to hear it granny, I wouldn't expect anything less, we have both made decisions on what we felt was right, only time will tell.

Oh no we didn't. We became 10.4% poorer from 2007 to 2017. Just like Greece!

They, however, are currently enjoying earnings growing faster than prices. We are not. We continue to get poorer.

Well, I'm glad to hear you taking responsibility for your foolishness Granny. I hope you continue to do so as the economy collapses around you and it becomes hard to afford food and heat.

You won't of course. You'll find someone else to blame. The EU will be 'punishing ' us, or it will be the tories mismanaging the paradise that could have been brexit or something...

Anyway, after tonight's defeat in the Commons, I wouldn't be surprised to see further defeats, and possibly May being told by parliament what they will accept as an agreement and - more importantly - what they will not.

If May cannot get what parliament wants, I would expect we'd just have to stay in! No sensible parliament is going to willingly plunge the country into economic chaos.

Strange, I can't afford food and heat now, so what's the difference ?

So far as Brexit goes, I'm fed up with it as said before and some who have obsessions about it, cannot let it lie because they are intent to try to punish those who don't do or think or see as they do. That's bullying !

At least Casper and I understand each other,with having different opinions and accept it.

All I can say is if Brexit is derailed, in any way that is not in alignment with the original intentions, then I assume that many will not vote again, or not for a very long time. In the meantime it could mean a couple of steps or more nearer to a dictatorship by JC. just like his foolish South American friends that show such outstanding qualities and abilities !
Get him in no 10, and you would certainly have something to groan about.

Retweeted Tory Fibs (@ToryFibs):

Is your money not stretching as far this Christmas? Here is why. For the last 210 days, prices have been rising considerably faster than your wages.

https://t.co/Yx3dQPMhsD

The tory panacea of austerity hasn't worked. It NEVER works. The effect of it is to choke off growth. Keynes showed clearly why this is the case. Sadly, it seems to be beyond the grasp of the conservative party.

Add to that the fact that they have made unions so ineffective that the bulk of social spending goes to supporting people who are in work but paid so poorly it is impossible to live on their wages. It is easy to blame Thatcher for this, and she certainly crippled them, but I also blame 'old' Labour for doing nothing to change the situation. Hopefully, JC will change this when he gets in. We certainly need to share things out more fairly than they are now.

The only way brexit can be made acceptable to this country is for us to continue to have free trade with the EU. Mrs May has already agreed to this, and it has been made clear by the EU that this agreement is binding. It will be interesting to see if the EU continue to insist that free movement of people is also accepted. As this seems to be a fundamental principle of the EU then I imagine they will.

The result is that we will - economically - remain within the EU, whilst relinquishing all control over it. This would suit me just fine. I think the UK has been responsible for pushing the EU to the right over the years rather than the left, and abandoning its influence is - to my mind - a good thing for Europe. Although it suits me, I didn't vote to leave.

How what we are heading for can be construed as 'taking back control' is baffling. It seems to be the reverse of what brexiteers want, but that's their problem, not mine. Now parliament has the veto on any tory agreement, they can, of course, prevent them following the "Just walk away" policy. This is such a palpably daft idea that I cannot ever see any parliament ever allowing it.

If many brexiteers (including Granny) decide never to vote again, then that is their decision, not mine. I suspect it will not happen, but if it does it will clearly be right-wingers who don't vote, which also suits me just fine.

I think the EU has always been on the right and that probably accounts for our disagreements on many of our discussion.

Its main start was the Common Market (as we chose to soften its description to). That was a capitalist restrictive trade organisation designed to brickwall cheaper products from other countries.

The free movement of people was to get cheap labour to move around to pull down the labour costs of other countries.

The Euro was a complete financial control.

The Working hours directive put figures up which were higher than the average hours in many countries in the EU thereby trying to get people to work longer hours not shorter.

It has done nothing that does not benefit capitalist ideals.

Basically if Donald Trump was running Europe as a company the policies would be roughly the same.

When it comes to international issues, Europe has been exceedingly lax, taking NATO as an example, there are only five countries paying what they promised (UK, Poland, USA, Estonia and Greece). Germany despite being the greatest economy in Europe is one of the worst countries for not paying their way in NATO at about 40% short, France are short, Spain are paying less than 50% of what they should etc.

It welcomes poorer countries into the fold and provides them with the necessary infrastructure funding to get up to roughly comparable economic parity.

It allows people to move from country to country to pursue work or pleasure

It establishes a democratic framework for all and sets basic human rights.

And what do you think the ECHR is for? The clue is in the name.

Most of these have been opposed by the UK at one time or another. As to blaming the EU for countries not paying up for NATO, this I think, torpedoes your claim that sovereignty (whatever that is) is removed by membership of the EU. Countries are free to do what they like. They don't all agree with NATO and not everyone thinks it gives good value.

As I said, allows cheap labour to infiltrate other countries.



No, there is nothing democratic about the EU, the European Parliament can't do anything without the unelected Council allowing them to do it. The Council decides what MEP's vote on, therefore the EU is totally controlled by an unelected authority.



The the ECtHR is an international organisation and is not part of the EU, it is part of the Council of Europe (you may have noticed a lack of elections for the this Council as it is unelected of course). "Human Rights" to quote Shakespeare:- "What's in a name?".



They aren't forced into NATO, they chose to sign up and it is pretty easy to leave, as France did at one time. They all agreed to aim for 2% GDP in 2014, Germany hasn't headed in that direction at all, Estonia and Poland increased their spending to achieve the target, Greece has reduced its spending but is still above the target. Britain has always been above the 2% target. Europe as a whole has decreased its spending.