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#1036455 - 2nd May 2017 11:46am Tony Blair, Our Saviour
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14563
Loc: Wirral

Our Saviour returns, as prophesised !!

Can't think of anything else to say really.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...e-brexit-debate
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1036457 - 2nd May 2017 12:19pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10385
Loc: Birkenhead
With the mess the Labour party is in at the moment they have nothing to lose, its about time they kicked all the right-wingers (blairites) out the party and started again as a socialist party.

The people of the country should have the right to be able to select between a left-wing or a right-wing government, something we finally lost while Blair was in power.

This subterfuge of right-wing infiltrating the Labour party has got to be brought to a halt.

I don't care if a left-wing party is unelectable but the people should have the choice. Altering policy purely to get into power at any cost is not politics, its greed.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1036469 - 2nd May 2017 10:06pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
fish5133 Online   content
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Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3071
Loc: Heswallish
Second Coming !!Hallelujah. More like the "Return of Damien"

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#1036474 - 3rd May 2017 9:38am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: diggingdeeper]
Gibbo Offline
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Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1796
Loc: Oxton
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
With the mess the Labour party is in at the moment they have nothing to lose, its about time they kicked all the right-wingers (blairites) out the party and started again as a socialist party.


I can see a problem right there. Its the Blairites which made the party finally electable in the 90s.

New Labour appealed to "Mondeo Man" and encouraged women to vote and put the party in the middle ground.

Those people haven't just gone away you know.

And that's why Labour is in the mess its in, you have the old Red Left wanting Corbyn, and you have the original New Labour supporters - not wanting Blair and Burnham, but something less left-wing. And the party is tearing itself apart because of it.

Corbyn's promotion was a stunt that backfired in a big way. His MPs don't like him, the electorate don't like him, bar those who turn up to his rallies. And as long as he has his ex lover Diane Abbot in a senior position, they're only going to drive more people away.

Remember when Scargill didn't like the way Blair was taking Labour and launched Socialist Labour? That party died a death and if Corbyn takes the party that way any further it will remain unelectable until the late 2020s.

New Labour was a success. Where it went wrong was forcing the ID cards plan, BSF and PFI, blindly following Bush, and then letting Gordon Brown run the country, then picking the wrong Miliband.

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#1036477 - 3rd May 2017 11:59am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10385
Loc: Birkenhead
But Corbyn is the party leader with the 2nd most number of supporters in the whole of Europe and is way ahead of the other party leaders in the UK.

The "unpopular" leader is a myth promulgated by the media, he is the most popular leader by far.

The concept of changing your politics purely to get elected is ridiculous and its the aftermath of this happening during the Blair years that drove loads of Labour supporters away. Labour lost some of its base reliable supporters in favour of loads of unreliable floating voters from the middle ground.

The one thing they should change if they want greater support from many that have left is to recognise nationalism, many grass root left wingers are also Union Jack waving nationalists. They don't want free competition from foreign companies eg they want our ships built at Cammel Laird.

Wallasey Labour Party was shut down because it was one of the few local parties that wasn't in control of the Blairites, it was one of the most undemocratic and unconstitutional events to happen in the Labour party.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1036482 - 3rd May 2017 2:16pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: diggingdeeper]
Gibbo Offline
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Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1796
Loc: Oxton
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
But Corbyn is the party leader with the 2nd most number of supporters in the whole of Europe and is way ahead of the other party leaders in the UK.

The "unpopular" leader is a myth promulgated by the media, he is the most popular leader by far.


The polls say otherwise.

The voting electorate say otherwise.

Why have Labour lost all those recent by-elections?

Even the lefties favourite, the Guardian, report Labour predicted to lose hundreds of seats:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...local-elections

You can blame the media all you like, but they don't go to the ballot box and vote.

And lets not forget this:

Labour party has lost nearly 26,000 members since mid-2016, report claims
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/03/labour-party-lost-members-mid-2016

All that 3 support soon left when they had to pay full price for party membership.

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#1036483 - 3rd May 2017 5:12pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10385
Loc: Birkenhead
The difference is whether you are taking about popularity of the Labour Party or the popularity of Corbyn.

There is a very distinct division in the party between the socialists and blairites, left-wing or right-wing.

The Labour Party is supposed be be a socialist movement, the blairites have captured the name. Tony blair is centre-right-wing in most studies I have found and more right wing than conservative Merkel in all the studies that I have found.

Labour had lost a small percentage of member (about 5%?), I believe the conservative party has not only lost a higher percentage in the same period but also had a much lower membership to start with. The Labour Party is doing much much better than the Conservative Party - but the media never point that out do they!
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1036544 - 5th May 2017 8:33am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1796
Loc: Oxton
Oh dear oh dear, Labour get another drubbing, this time nationally. So much for your claim of "The Labour Party is doing much much better than the Conservative Party"!

When will Labour realise that Corbyn is to blame? The party is being punished for his "leadership".

And you can't blame "the media" or "blairites" for this. This is the general public, voting with their feet.

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#1036555 - 5th May 2017 10:58am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10385
Loc: Birkenhead
I thought it proved my point. People don't want the blairites.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1036557 - 5th May 2017 11:14am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14563
Loc: Wirral

At the moment, Scotland seems to be getting a bit of rumble too. Now that IS of interest !
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1036558 - 5th May 2017 11:15am Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1796
Loc: Oxton
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.

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#1036565 - 5th May 2017 12:06pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: Gibbo]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3071
Loc: Heswallish
Originally Posted By: Gibbo
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.


Not studied the turnouts but is this due to Labour supporters voting conservative or just not turning out. UKIP took a hit so are there former supporters voting Conservative rather than Labour.
I would tend to think previous UKIP supporters would vote conservative to make sure Brexit goes through

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#1036568 - 5th May 2017 12:41pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: Gibbo]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10385
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Gibbo
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.


I can see that, I thought it was you that couldn't. The blairites despite being very much a minority in the Labour Party have taken control of the party both nationally and at constituency level.

I'm always curious why Wallasey is so important to the blairites. Twice the blairites at a national level have risked being exposing their underhand tactics by attacking the Wallasey Constituency.

As said many times before, Corbyn is being stabbed in the front by the media and the back by the blairites despite being the most popular politician in the country. The tories and the blairites live in fear of him and will do their utmost to destroy him.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1036580 - 5th May 2017 4:18pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
Martin1943 Offline
Addict

Registered: 26th Jan 2011
Posts: 262
Loc: Moreton
Never mind Blair the warmonger, we now have Mayor Rotherham.
He is a;ready calling the wirral as "liverpool"
We think we did badly when Birkenhead appropriated the majority of funding and starved the rest of Wirral. Now Liverpool across the river will have first dibs in the pot. I wonder if they sold off all there tramline track, or is it stored waiting a fresh way of spending money!
Independance for The Wirral!!!!

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#1036583 - 5th May 2017 5:14pm Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour [Re: granny]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1796
Loc: Oxton
Quite amusingly, Andy Burnham the biggest Blairite in the country becomes mayor for Greater Manchester. So much for the voters voting the Blairites out!!!

as for Rotheram -

Quote:
Steve Rotheram, who was Corbyn's PPS, admits he didn't use Corbyn in any of his 4 campaign leaflets. Says wanted to stress local stuff

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