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#1036402 - 1st May 2017 8:10am On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers *****
keef666 Offline
Member

Registered: 29th Dec 2013
Posts: 78
Loc: Seacombe
Some work mates were talking about this programme last week and i missed it, i managed to catch the repeat last night on channel 5star, at 10.00pm.
It showned thre groups of people, one guy who lived in New Brighton a single mother in Birkenhead and a couple who live around the corner from me in Seacombe, these type of programmes have be on for the last year and i know some people have strong views about them, the tv channels show them for whatever reason to get viewers backs up or to show how some are really finding it hard to live etc,
I was out of work for many years and did find it hard to find a job, but in the end i did, i never had any kids as i felt it wrong to have children while i was out of work, yet others seem to breed like rabbits, i made sure my rent was paid and bills etc, and if i had enough left i would buy food, i didn't drink as i couldn't afford to do so, i never went into a betting shop to blow any money i recieved on horses, or to stand out side the Pub all day long, like i see others doing, and then they wonder why they can't get a job!
It did get to me over a time that i thought i had no purpose in life and got to the point i was on the verge of taking my own life, the Mersey is an easy place to drown in, but a father with his young boy walking passed brought me out of this deathwish, i cried all the way home but from then on i made it my mission to get a job, it took me another year or so but i got it in the end, infact i now have three part time jobs, work for the most parts seven days a week, from 3.00am till 7.00pm and like the guy from secombe who falls asleep at any time while he's watching the telly i do the same while at work, but mine's down to working my butt off, this includes working weekends, Bank holidays, Xmas and New Years day, oh and the Sabbath, i have had three weeks holiday in the last two years.
Am i loaded?, no! the tax man still takes his share, but i do have more money to buy the things i want, some weeks are better than others, some weeks the money is gone within a few days, but i still don't get nearly as much money as the people shown in this weeks programme, i still have to go without some things, funny as with being out of work for so long i thought i would feel something for other still looking for that job, but when i watch a programme like this i just feel anger, i work hard for my wage and then to see the tax going out of it to go to some who don't want to work on the Sabbath or because they say thay are too ill to work but pass me another can of beer while thet watch their big wide screen tv,
The Government wants to bring in a benefit that you have one year, after that you get nothing and should be made to sign a contract to say you will have no new kids while out of work, if you do then the money stops!

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#1036409 - 1st May 2017 10:12am Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
cools Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 1822
Loc: Wirral
That's a sad story you tell Keef but I'm glad you turned your life around and now working. I saw that programme it made me cringe and angry too. That stupid scrounger, can't work on a Friday because he has to prepare for the Sabbath which his so called religion called The Way is a Saturday. Getting prepared was making sure he had his booze in and snacks ready to do no work whatsoever and just watch TV. Then he moans about the job centre saying he making himself unemployable. Shouldn't get anything as far as I'm concerned. And you're right about having kids when you obviously can't keep them.I knoow Channel 5 do it to shock and show the worst but we all know that it does go on in lots of cases. At least you've got your dignity and must feel better as you know you're putting in and not just taking out the system.

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#1036426 - 1st May 2017 1:52pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: cools]
starakita Online   content

Forum Master

Registered: 1st Oct 2009
Posts: 2251
Loc: between heaven & hell
I watched that programme too,was on again last week obese & on benefits,different part of the country.Everyone of them said we can't afford healthy food,one fella had 2 boxes of coke each with 30 cans in & they all eat takeaways,you can eat healthy if you shop right.Changes came in on the 6th of April regarding the child tax credit,you can't claim for a 3rd child born after 6th of April 2017,there are exceptions but I suppose it's to stop those who think having a few kids that the state will pay for them while they can sit at home.not having a go at single parents & can get child tax credits if your working you just get some that see it as a career option.
_________________________
no1s gonna keep me from u

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#1036428 - 1st May 2017 2:35pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3002
Loc: Heswallish
2 of my kids working hard but still don't earn enough (thanks to minimum wage) to think about leaving home. When I was there age and working I could at least afford to get on the mortgage ladder or rent. Seems to be a bigger gap between wages and cost of living. Has the way business and industry gone (yes to some degree the fault of politicians but not just that) turned some of these people into scrounging after losing hope.

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#1036430 - 1st May 2017 2:59pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
Excoriator Online   content
Guardian

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 911
Loc: wirral
This government is bonkers.

In a few years time we will ALL be on benefits, rich and poor, as artificial intelligence and automation displace more and more jobs. In the past, improved technology has not displaced workers, but the reason for this was growth. Things are different now because we are reaching the limits of growth. Lack of energy, materials, and space make this an increasingly difficult trick to pull off now. The result will be massive unemployment.

Manufacturers and employers may welcome this initially until they realise that although they can churn out flat screen tellies or cars or chocolate bars without having to employ or pay workers, the robots and AI systems they have displaced them with don't buy these items. It is as big a problem for industry as it is for the general population.

There IS a solution, however. It is called 'Universal Income' and it involves paying everyone in the country an income big enough to allow them to live and purchase the output of industry and keep the whole show on the road. It horrifies the conservatives of course, but they are unable to suggest another solution. The money paid out would come from taxing the manufacturers and this seems to terrify them. Perhaps we would need to call it 'Universal dividend' as they are perfectly happy with people living on unearned share dividends!

It's not a new idea. It was almost put in place in the Land of the Free by that well-known extreme socialist Richard M Nixon in the late sixties/early 70s. The sum mentioned was around $1600 a year - enough to live on. It was affordable, Nixon and the senate were in favour, and had it not been for an extreme right-wing adviser it would have gone ahead. It would have abolished poverty in the USA. Alas, at the last minute the scheme was wrecked by the addition of a requirement that some work be done in exchange for the money. It became the hated 'workfare'.

If you are interested in this and similar experiments, I suggest Rutger Bregman's excellent book "Utopia for realists". What a pity the clowns in the cabinet will almost certainy not do so.

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#1036437 - 1st May 2017 6:19pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10295
Loc: Birkenhead
That is effectively what led to the Wapping dispute, prior to the dispute, as the newspapers automated and needed less staff, the unions held on to the "missing" positions even though nobody was doing the non-existent job. It wasn't the only industry that held these"restrictive practices".

Eventually money should be done away with, you would have employment and the level of employment sets what privileges you have, this might be achieved by segregated living/shopping areas. Your employment also builds up credits for when you retire.

It is only through control, not necessity that people work as many hours as they do. As we progress the working hours should decrease not increase, likewise the number of years working should decrease.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1036440 - 1st May 2017 7:40pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
joeblogs Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 8th May 2011
Posts: 399
Loc: bebington
and that bird from birkenhead was crying because she only got 1500 a month
utter madness

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#1036450 - 2nd May 2017 8:39am Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
Excoriator Online   content
Guardian

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 911
Loc: wirral
Well, I think we should celebrate the fact that the overall amount of work required to sustain our civilisation has fallen, and stop stigmatising people who choose not to work. They are the future, and there go all of us in the end. The sooner we replace the benefit system with a Universal Income, we can dispense with the whole system of administrating the distribution system and allow the workforce therein to enjoy a life of idleness.

In my own case, I have worked for a bit more than half of my life. I was in education until I was 25. Worked 40 years and retired at 65. I am now 75. If I make it to 80, I shall have passed the 50% of my life not working. Had I taken early retirement - a financially profitable option in my case, I would already be there. Indeed if you consider holidays, I am already probably over 50% anyway

The work I did was not onerous. I enjoyed doing it and had been doing it as a hobby before I started being paid for it and have continued to do so after retirement. I worked with people who hated the job they did, however, and the thought of spending decades of your life resentfully doing an unfulfilling job - the lot of most of the current workforce - is a nightmare to me, particularly as the work done is, as often as not, unnecessary and or could be easily automated or both.

Life is for living, and work in its present form should be optional. We already have the technology to do this, and we should start thinking of ways of putting it into force. The stigmatisation of 'unemployed scroungers' needs to stop for a start. One might, by the way, include many tv programmes as 'unnecessary work' along with the advertisements that support them.

Am I a 'scrounger'? You can judge for yourself. If the answer is 'yes' then I wear the badge with pride.

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#1036458 - 2nd May 2017 12:52pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10295
Loc: Birkenhead
I agree with most of what you say, certain things should be a right eg to be able to eat, to receive medical treatment, to be able to clothe yourself etc. Universal income is a way of achieving that with minimal corruption and administration, it is fair to all.

The financial punishment to young adults these days (which impact up to age 35 for a single person) is destroying our future generations. People should be given the best start in life to let them go where their will takes them.

Working for 50 years to have 12 years of retirement some of which is in competitively poor health is not fair.

I got out the rat-race at age 45, worked long hours to achieve it but it was worth the effort given the alternatives. Basically I worked about 30 years and will have about 30 years retirement.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1036466 - 2nd May 2017 8:38pm Re: On Benefits, Breadlne Scousers [Re: keef666]
Excoriator Online   content
Guardian

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 911
Loc: wirral
There is the concept of 'peak stuff' which I feel applies more and more to me. There comes a point when possessions become more of a nuisance than an advantage. When I was younger, I used to look on acquiring new things with pleasure and anticipation. Now I am more concerned at how much hassle owning it involves. Where will I put it? How often will it need to be serviced? How much space will it take up? All these questions loom larger and larger. The cost is far less important.

I suspect that without advertising, we would want and buy a lot less. This industry is enormous and when you consider that its sole purpose is to persuade us that we really need things like electric egg-boilers, or pancake machines which nobody in their right mind would want to clutter their homes with, and about half of UK households rent storage space in order to store junk that they have bought and cannot quite bring themselves to throw out, the inevitable conclusion is that scarcity (on which the working economy is ultimately based) is not a problem. We are living in a time of excess of everything and the only problem is what to do with it all.

I rather like the idea of 'free' supermarkets. The deal would be that you would take out a monthly contract with a supermarket of your choice which would be paid out of your universal income. A fixed sum for the month. For the remainder of the month, you would simply pick up the goods you want and walk out with them without paying.

It seems utopian. You could, for instance, fill your trolley with bottles of your favourite malt whisky. But why would you bother? As everyone else could too, it is unsaleable, and you can just as easily leave it on the shelves until you run out. Its value as a saleable item becomes zero.

It doesn't destroy competition. Supermarkets would be free to compete for your monthly renewal, but not on the basis of price. The 'peak stuff' concept would mean few if anyone would take more than they need, and as the items themselves would not need to be advertised, the investment in this ultimately utterly unproductive activity could be invested in something of benefit to us all.

We already do this with gas and electricity and telephones. I pay a few pounds to get unlimited UK phone calls on my land-line for instance, so the concept is not too hard to get one's head round. And think of the freedom from hassle this would involve.

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