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#1010533 - 1st Jun 2016 9:21pm Dog owners feedback please
tannyc Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 1st Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Loc: Wallasey
Hi all,

i have been thinking of this for a while and all being well we are in a position to move forward with this idea, and as dog owners i need some feedback and some help to some questions if any of you wouldn't mind i would be ever soo greatful.



So, I really would like somewhere local to let my dog offlead, knowing no other unruley owner could interfer. But, somewhere other than my garden, plus with training it would be nice to take the dogs elsewhere to step up the game with other distractions and scents. So i have found a good location that is not far from our promanade to possibly open a supervised free run for dogs. The area isn't huge but it would be enough for people to let their dogs off lead without worrying about other dogs, it is secure with a fence. It would be used for anyone wanting lead free time with their dog. Anything from 15 mins lead-free right the way up to hiring for local trainers/dog groups, pooch parties, puppy meets for socialisation, treat finds and plenty more. It will be supervied by people in opening hours, bookings can be made (15minutes minimum) if there is any empty slots people are free to use the area. There will be a small charge but nothng too OTT.

It could be a great place for training, off lead running & playing, illness recovery, affraid dogs, aggressive dogs, own multiple dogs and have them off-lead at the same time.



So if you could answer the following questions it would be a great help thank you:



Would you be interested?



Any pros/cons?



For the shorter use (15mins, half hour and full hour) What prices would people be willing to pay?



Mank Thanks in advance for your time smile


Edited by Mark (2nd Jun 2016 7:42pm)
Edit Reason: Renamed

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#1010537 - 1st Jun 2016 10:06pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
cools Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 2120
Loc: Wirral
Hi Tannyc just thought I would give you abit of feedback. I haven't got a dog now lost my little fella some years ago but when I had him this was something that went through my mind. He was only a small dog and quite timid the times when I would take him to a field for abit if a run off lead would be great until another came on. I would be so nervous and if they were ok great but a couple would chase him off and that would be it run off the field all way home with me in pursuit . I used to think exactly what you are doing if only there was a safe field I could pay fir just to go round it in peace I would have paid gladly. I think it is a great idea hope you get a good response. Good luck...

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#1010538 - 1st Jun 2016 10:16pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: cools]
tannyc Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 1st Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: cools
Hi Tannyc just thought I would give you abit of feedback. I haven't got a dog now lost my little fella some years ago but when I had him this was something that went through my mind. He was only a small dog and quite timid the times when I would take him to a field for abit if a run off lead would be great until another came on. I would be so nervous and if they were ok great but a couple would chase him off and that would be it run off the field all way home with me in pursuit . I used to think exactly what you are doing if only there was a safe field I could pay fir just to go round it in peace I would have paid gladly. I think it is a great idea hope you get a good response. Good luck...


Thank you Cools smile
Like you i have a small shih tzu, her recall is ok but if a bigger dog comes over when she is onlead there is hell to pay it makes her feel threatened, and owners don't always care about what their dogs are doing when they are offlead. If we manage this it will be manned by staff at all times and available for one dog and their owner if needed. Sorry to hear about your rainbow dog frown
Thank you for taking the time to reply it is appreciated smile

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#1010539 - 1st Jun 2016 10:49pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
McGee Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 4th May 2016
Posts: 30
Loc: Wirral
Hi Tanny, good luck with a great idea, my little girl can be a bit timid around large boisterous dogs and if you ask their owners to kindly stop their dogs flattening your dog you get an astonished look accompanied with "He's only playing", once again, good luck.

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#1010542 - 1st Jun 2016 11:10pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
I think its a really good idea and had looked into it myself but the only affordable locations were a bit out the way and I was a bit concerned about the need for a shelter for the supervisor (preferably with electricity).

You will need insurance and need to check that all visiting dogs are correctly up to date with jabs etc.

I didn't get as far as checking whether you would need planning permission or not.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1010543 - 1st Jun 2016 11:16pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: diggingdeeper]
tannyc Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 1st Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: McGee
Hi Tanny, good luck with a great idea, my little girl can be a bit timid around large boisterous dogs and if you ask their owners to kindly stop their dogs flattening your dog you get an astonished look accompanied with "He's only playing", once again, good luck.


I know that feeling too well, thanks hun smile

Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
I think its a really good idea and had looked into it myself but the only affordable locations were a bit out the way and I was a bit concerned about the need for a shelter for the supervisor (preferably with electricity).

You will need insurance and need to check that all visiting dogs are correctly up to date with jabs etc.

I didn't get as far as checking whether you would need planning permission or not.

I dont want to give the place away just yet, but it is totally ideal with a fenced area already there and huts in the ground, still along way to go but want to be prepared smile
Ive emailed an insurance company to see if its just public liability insurance or there is something else. jab checks are on the list to look in to to thank you.
As for planning permission we are only just finding out who the grounds belong to so yes will be a lenghthly process but just wanted to put all plans on paper and make sure i had everything thought of and of coure to make sure people would like to use something like this, thank you again for your response smile

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#1010553 - 2nd Jun 2016 10:03am Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
Near_Oval Offline
Member

Registered: 23rd Oct 2012
Posts: 71
Loc: Wallasey village
Originally Posted By: tannyc
Hi all,

i have been thinking of this for a while and all being well we are in a position to move forward with this idea, and as dog owners i need some feedback and some help to some questions if any of you wouldn't mind i would be ever soo greatful.



So, I really would like somewhere local to let my dog offlead, knowing no other unruley owner could interfer. But, somewhere other than my garden, plus with training it would be nice to take the dogs elsewhere to step up the game with other distractions and scents. So i have found a good location that is not far from our promanade to possibly open a supervised free run for dogs. The area isn't huge but it would be enough for people to let their dogs off lead without worrying about other dogs, it is secure with a fence. It would be used for anyone wanting lead free time with their dog. Anything from 15 mins lead-free right the way up to hiring for local trainers/dog groups, pooch parties, puppy meets for socialisation, treat finds and plenty more. It will be supervied by people in opening hours, bookings can be made (15minutes minimum) if there is any empty slots people are free to use the area. There will be a small charge but nothng too OTT.

It could be a great place for training, off lead running & playing, illness recovery, affraid dogs, aggressive dogs, own multiple dogs and have them off-lead at the same time.



So if you could answer the following questions it would be a great help thank you:



Would you be interested?



Any pros/cons?



For the shorter use (15mins, half hour and full hour) What prices would people be willing to pay?



Mank Thanks in advance for your time smile

Not a dog owner myself - but apart form previous suggestions - you could consider a fresh water supply, even if you tranported it to site in a suitable water butt or similar, for drinking purposes, and check with council over possibility of a bin specifically for dog waste to be sited on/close to site, if one doesnt already exist.
Would definitely approach Pets at Home, newly opened branch at Bidston Moss, for any possibility of sponsorship/branded kit/community support available from them as the openeing of a local branch by a national chain is normally accompanied by a corporate want to get into local conmmunity to support related charities/community schemes.
Good Luck

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#1010560 - 2nd Jun 2016 11:49am Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: Near_Oval]
tannyc Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 1st Jun 2016
Posts: 10
Loc: Wallasey
Originally Posted By: Near_Oval
Originally Posted By: tannyc
Hi all,

i have been thinking of this for a while and all being well we are in a position to move forward with this idea, and as dog owners i need some feedback and some help to some questions if any of you wouldn't mind i would be ever soo greatful.



So, I really would like somewhere local to let my dog offlead, knowing no other unruley owner could interfer. But, somewhere other than my garden, plus with training it would be nice to take the dogs elsewhere to step up the game with other distractions and scents. So i have found a good location that is not far from our promanade to possibly open a supervised free run for dogs. The area isn't huge but it would be enough for people to let their dogs off lead without worrying about other dogs, it is secure with a fence. It would be used for anyone wanting lead free time with their dog. Anything from 15 mins lead-free right the way up to hiring for local trainers/dog groups, pooch parties, puppy meets for socialisation, treat finds and plenty more. It will be supervied by people in opening hours, bookings can be made (15minutes minimum) if there is any empty slots people are free to use the area. There will be a small charge but nothng too OTT.

It could be a great place for training, off lead running & playing, illness recovery, affraid dogs, aggressive dogs, own multiple dogs and have them off-lead at the same time.



So if you could answer the following questions it would be a great help thank you:



Would you be interested?



Any pros/cons?



For the shorter use (15mins, half hour and full hour) What prices would people be willing to pay?



Mank Thanks in advance for your time smile

Not a dog owner myself - but apart form previous suggestions - you could consider a fresh water supply, even if you tranported it to site in a suitable water butt or similar, for drinking purposes, and check with council over possibility of a bin specifically for dog waste to be sited on/close to site, if one doesnt already exist.
Would definitely approach Pets at Home, newly opened branch at Bidston Moss, for any possibility of sponsorship/branded kit/community support available from them as the openeing of a local branch by a national chain is normally accompanied by a corporate want to get into local conmmunity to support related charities/community schemes.
Good Luck


Thank you Near_Oval fab suggestions there. Yes there will be water bowls and water play eventually for a water loving dogs. Will look into the other stuff to many thanks for your time smile

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#1010563 - 2nd Jun 2016 12:49pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2975
Loc: Wirral
Hi Tanyc. In principle , this is a great idea , but I would query whether such a thing would be profitable enough to run.
Looking on the darkest side possible , which is I suppose what you have to do when considering a business (although not so much here I guess as you have fairly low set up costs).

How many people I wonder actually have dogs that they prefer not to walk in public?

My guess on that one, is-- relatively few owners whos dogs are nervous, delicate/injuries, unreliable with other people/dogs , or maybe in season. Would there be that many I wonder? --Just thinking too, residue accumulating from dogs in season going in before them, is going to send unneutered dogs nutty! Wont do much for any training sessions held there either lol!

I think the above group of owners if local , would use you in moderation,(depending on price) but Id question how many would get in the car to visit if they were then paying a fee on top of diesel.
Those with 'dodgy' ie pit type dogs would I think continue to walk at dawn and dusk in uninhabited places (if at all) . They won't want their dog seen out or be willing to pay anything.

Would people tire of 'having to book' ? Dog walking is pretty spontaneous with people who dont work. Booking and cancellation systems are labour intensive too , for organisers.

Depends how pleasant/large/interesting the venue is , but after a few visits, would users tire of it I wonder. Maybe you could keep altering the space with new dogfriendly attractions. (Big brother dog house lol).
.
Lets say you're open 8 hours a day . How would you split that? Working people like to exercise their dogs early morning and evening , so youd need to be open from about 7am or earlier, till about 8pm - thats 13 hours , so would you be closed part of the day ? You said something about if it wasnt in use, people could use it for nothing - does that mean if people turn up when you are closed , they can use it for nothing? If so, people are very adept at changing their habits to accommodate 'free' lol!

As a business, I imagine you would want to make a living ? With one dog at a time, you will surely have to charge an awful lot to make it work, by the time you take away tax, a wage, insurance, rent - and give thought to breaks for yourself and sick days or will you open 13or more hours?

Bubbles in New Brighton (soft play) is £3 an hour roughly. So, I personally wouldnt have thought people would want to pay that much more than for their dog. There just isnt the money around I dont reckon ,for use on a regular basis.

Sorry to be depressing,and I wish you lots of luck, but those are my random thoughts for what they are worth.

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#1010564 - 2nd Jun 2016 12:55pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2975
Loc: Wirral
Having re read your first post, it dawned on me that this probably isnt a business , is it? More a community service? In which case half of what Ive said is rubbish !! blush

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#1010565 - 2nd Jun 2016 1:10pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: venice
Having re read your first post, it dawned on me that this probably isnt a business , is it? More a community service? In which case half of what Ive said is rubbish !! blush


It is a business, many businesses are providing a service to the public right down to an ice cream van.

Being a voluntary dog walker and previous dog owner I think there is a huge demand for this, whenever you have dogs out there are huge concerns about the many vicious dogs around. Royden park, Rock Ferry High School ground, Birkenhead Park and Eastham woods all have had problem with vicious dogs attacking others and the list goes on.

I don't think "free" was referring to monetary free, it was free-running ie off-lead etc?

Additional to the general public, professional dog walkers (a growing market) may consider a deal on this as obviously the safety of the client's dogs is paramount.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1010568 - 2nd Jun 2016 1:35pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2975
Loc: Wirral
You are the mathmatician DD. Can you see it making a living if you crunch the figures? One dog at a time remember for a lot of the time.

Dog walkers are about £10 an hour, if they had to lose £3+ off that , or charge their dog owners £3+ more, they may lose too much business.

How much do you think would need to be charged per hour's use, if open 5 or 6 days a week , to earn say£19k a year after expenses and allowing for voids?

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#1010570 - 2nd Jun 2016 2:06pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10790
Loc: Birkenhead
The whole point is that more than one dog can be there at the same time, that is why its limited to non-aggressive dogs. People want their dogs to mix with others, they just don't want their dog to be injured in the process.

The dog walkers can provide it as an option to their clients, perhaps on say a once a fortnight basis (not every walk) so the dogs can mix with others which it wouldn't normally do.

If there are quiet periods at the project this could be offered to the dog walkers on a greatly discounted rate, don't forget that dog walkers often have four dogs at a time. Any income is better than no-income where you have slack, if this is regular income then all the better.

The overheads are negligible, you could run this business just making an average of around £10 an hour at a push. The early evenings and weekends will be the busiest and will be the main income times, you need to find ways to top that up during the quieter times.

There will probably need to be a charging structure to encourage regular use eg £7 for a one off use or batch buy 5 uses for £20 and perhaps a one-off fee for initial registration. Loads of possibilities, as with most businesses its the marketing strategy that will make or break it more than the product itself.

Adding a pick-up, play and return service could be another possibility, even if this is once a month for a given dog its more money in the bank.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1010572 - 2nd Jun 2016 2:24pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2975
Loc: Wirral
Quote DD "its limited to non-aggressive dogs"

But its not DD, the OP mentioned suitablity for aggressive dogs , nervous dogs, recovering dogs etc, which is why I focussed in so much on one dog at a time, but I can see now , that those would only be fill ins , and that the social side of things would be the main thing, which yes I could see working. Splash pond, ball pond , hose water chase play etc would be great fun for the active dog . If multiple dogs at once formed most of the use, it certainly would be more profitable..

My current oldie, is fine with other dogs, but much prefers to walk alone, he mostly ignores others, so I wouldnt use this facility at the moment. I would have if I still had an agressive dog,or a non returner, and wanted a space to let them off safely.

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#1010581 - 2nd Jun 2016 4:26pm Re: Dog owners feedback please [Re: tannyc]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2975
Loc: Wirral
If we're talking groups of dogs, how would you best police health and safety . ie many perfectly good dog owners, dont believe in vx their dogs more than every 3 years on health grounds. Kennel cough vx isnt routine except if kennelling . Would admitted dogs need to show cert for both , or would they not be needed at all?
Re behaviour, how would aggression be assessed? New dogs coming along with owners insisting their dog has never so much as looked sideways at another dog -- and then with all the smells and excitement , it attacks another dog whos owner has paid to have a safe environment.That cant happen, it would kill your purpose and reputation .
I suppose its perfectly possible to organize special sessions for the elderly, frail, timid or recovering dogs , session for the young and bouncy etc. Like they do in swimming pools - beginners session, ladies session, serious session etc. Lot of work organizationwise though .
I sound really negative tanny, but Im only throwing ideas around, not trying to sink your boat, I really like the idea - just interested and exploring the pros and cons . Would be really pleased for you if you managed to iron out all the negative possibilities and made a success of it yes

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