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#1007666 - 20th Apr 2016 4:53pm Welcome all you Ukrainians!
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
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Loc: Wirral
shocked

Did I really hear on RT today that the EU are proposing ALL Ukrainians be allowed into Shengen areas without any visa whatsoever?

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#1007669 - 20th Apr 2016 5:16pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
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This is a visitor program, similar to our visa-waiver agreements with numerous countries including the USA.

Its been progressing for a few years but got a bit delayed,they have agreements with many other countries including Hong Kong for instance.

Georgia and Kosovo are in the same batch as well.
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007670 - 20th Apr 2016 5:49pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
venice Offline

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Well, Ukraine is a more frightening proposition. East Ukrainians if dissatisfied may well look to Russia, but wont all the Western ones be over here and disappear like a shot?

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#1007675 - 20th Apr 2016 6:20pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Its a visitor waver for short term stays, it gives them no rights of residency nor permission to work. Most countries have loads of these visa-waiver agreements, they still need to travel on a passport and meet the requirements of the waiver.

The UK isn't inside the Schengen area so it won't affect us
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007681 - 20th Apr 2016 7:20pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper


The UK isn't inside the Schengen area so it won't affect us


If we vote STAY,it will-- we'll be shoehorned into Shengen like a shot I reckon and then I dont doubt that as soon as they dont require visas loads of Ukranians will leave their bankrupt shitty standard of living country and make their way to a European country with the least beaurocracy , in order to disappear into the black economy where they can earn probably 5 times as much as at home, a soft touch country who doesnt even know where all its National Insurance cards go ,because they get given out like dolly mixtures. Now where would be a good choice ?

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#1007688 - 20th Apr 2016 9:07pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
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Its short term stays, I believe it may be 90 days maximum the same as the old visitors visa.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007692 - 20th Apr 2016 9:35pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
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Are you saying you dont think there will be any problem , and theyll all show up and trot off at the end of 90 days back to their horrible lives?

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#1007693 - 20th Apr 2016 9:39pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Yes, because they are not allowed to work and it is illegal to employ them. There will be a small amount breaking the rules but probably not significantly more than as present.

The visa used to be fairly cheap and readily available, the waiver isn't a great change.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007701 - 20th Apr 2016 10:49pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
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Well theres at least 1 million internally displaced people in Ukraine , theres been more war activity in the last year or two, so I think this will be just the incentive they need to be on the move .
They dont need to be 'allowed' to work, in the black economy - they just 'do'. I dont reckon employers have ceased employing unintitled workers just because its illegal. Ah well, IN or OUT is the first big thing to worry about , and time will tell how that decision affects everything else.

Quote - International Business Times

"One of the major fears of the EU interior ministers meeting next week is that opening their borders to Ukrainians could result in a large number entering with no intention of going back. Statistics show thatís exactly what has happened with some countries enjoying visa-free travel to the Union."


Edited by venice (20th Apr 2016 10:53pm)

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#1007733 - 21st Apr 2016 11:57am Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
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'Unentitled' even whistle

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#1007737 - 21st Apr 2016 12:50pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
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Loc: Birkenhead
Don't forget that these are not fully fenced borders anyway. Its not too difficult for people to illegally wander between the relevant countries.

There are over 15 million regular crossings a year between the Ukraine and Poland, in the past this has been as high as 20 million before Poland joined the Schengen Area. Then there are other routes through Belarus, Moldavia etc.

I really can't see that the illegal traffic will significantly increase. What I can see a problem with will be the already significant drug trafficking routes increasing but as we have virtually no control over drugs at the moment it won't really impact much.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007739 - 21st Apr 2016 1:02pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2746
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
What I can see a problem with will be the already significant drug trafficking routes increasing but as we have virtually no control over drugs at the moment it won't really impact much.


Oh, well thats just another flipping thing to add to my list for the 'leave' side of things . Hadnt even thought of that, how depressing!
Really does seem to be Hobson's choice whatever we do.

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#1007780 - 21st Apr 2016 6:16pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10267
Loc: Birkenhead
The only reasons I have found to stay in are all negative reasons, there are many positive reasons to leave.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007781 - 21st Apr 2016 6:18pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10267
Loc: Birkenhead
Another way of looking at it.

If we were not members now, having seen the way the EU is heading, how would you vote in a referendum to join?
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1007784 - 21st Apr 2016 6:40pm Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper]
palemoon Online   content
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Registered: 27th Feb 2015
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Very well put, dd. happy

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