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Welcome all you Ukrainians! #1007666
20th Apr 2016 3:53pm
20th Apr 2016 3:53pm
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venice Offline OP

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shocked

Did I really hear on RT today that the EU are proposing ALL Ukrainians be allowed into Shengen areas without any visa whatsoever?

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Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007669
20th Apr 2016 4:16pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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This is a visitor program, similar to our visa-waiver agreements with numerous countries including the USA.

Its been progressing for a few years but got a bit delayed,they have agreements with many other countries including Hong Kong for instance.

Georgia and Kosovo are in the same batch as well.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007670
20th Apr 2016 4:49pm
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venice Offline OP

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Well, Ukraine is a more frightening proposition. East Ukrainians if dissatisfied may well look to Russia, but wont all the Western ones be over here and disappear like a shot?

Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007675
20th Apr 2016 5:20pm
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Its a visitor waver for short term stays, it gives them no rights of residency nor permission to work. Most countries have loads of these visa-waiver agreements, they still need to travel on a passport and meet the requirements of the waiver.

The UK isn't inside the Schengen area so it won't affect us


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper] #1007681
20th Apr 2016 6:20pm
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venice Offline OP

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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


The UK isn't inside the Schengen area so it won't affect us


If we vote STAY,it will-- we'll be shoehorned into Shengen like a shot I reckon and then I dont doubt that as soon as they dont require visas loads of Ukranians will leave their bankrupt shitty standard of living country and make their way to a European country with the least beaurocracy , in order to disappear into the black economy where they can earn probably 5 times as much as at home, a soft touch country who doesnt even know where all its National Insurance cards go ,because they get given out like dolly mixtures. Now where would be a good choice ?

Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007688
20th Apr 2016 8:07pm
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Its short term stays, I believe it may be 90 days maximum the same as the old visitors visa.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper] #1007692
20th Apr 2016 8:35pm
20th Apr 2016 8:35pm
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venice Offline OP

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Are you saying you dont think there will be any problem , and theyll all show up and trot off at the end of 90 days back to their horrible lives?

Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007693
20th Apr 2016 8:39pm
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Yes, because they are not allowed to work and it is illegal to employ them. There will be a small amount breaking the rules but probably not significantly more than as present.

The visa used to be fairly cheap and readily available, the waiver isn't a great change.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007701
20th Apr 2016 9:49pm
20th Apr 2016 9:49pm
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venice Offline OP

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Well theres at least 1 million internally displaced people in Ukraine , theres been more war activity in the last year or two, so I think this will be just the incentive they need to be on the move .
They dont need to be 'allowed' to work, in the black economy - they just 'do'. I dont reckon employers have ceased employing unintitled workers just because its illegal. Ah well, IN or OUT is the first big thing to worry about , and time will tell how that decision affects everything else.

Quote - International Business Times

"One of the major fears of the EU interior ministers meeting next week is that opening their borders to Ukrainians could result in a large number entering with no intention of going back. Statistics show thatís exactly what has happened with some countries enjoying visa-free travel to the Union."

Last edited by venice; 20th Apr 2016 9:53pm.
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007733
21st Apr 2016 10:57am
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'Unentitled' even whistle

Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007737
21st Apr 2016 11:50am
21st Apr 2016 11:50am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Don't forget that these are not fully fenced borders anyway. Its not too difficult for people to illegally wander between the relevant countries.

There are over 15 million regular crossings a year between the Ukraine and Poland, in the past this has been as high as 20 million before Poland joined the Schengen Area. Then there are other routes through Belarus, Moldavia etc.

I really can't see that the illegal traffic will significantly increase. What I can see a problem with will be the already significant drug trafficking routes increasing but as we have virtually no control over drugs at the moment it won't really impact much.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper] #1007739
21st Apr 2016 12:02pm
21st Apr 2016 12:02pm
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venice Offline OP

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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
What I can see a problem with will be the already significant drug trafficking routes increasing but as we have virtually no control over drugs at the moment it won't really impact much.


Oh, well thats just another flipping thing to add to my list for the 'leave' side of things . Hadnt even thought of that, how depressing!
Really does seem to be Hobson's choice whatever we do.

Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007780
21st Apr 2016 5:16pm
21st Apr 2016 5:16pm
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The only reasons I have found to stay in are all negative reasons, there are many positive reasons to leave.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: venice] #1007781
21st Apr 2016 5:18pm
21st Apr 2016 5:18pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Another way of looking at it.

If we were not members now, having seen the way the EU is heading, how would you vote in a referendum to join?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Welcome all you Ukrainians! [Re: diggingdeeper] #1007784
21st Apr 2016 5:40pm
21st Apr 2016 5:40pm
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Very well put, dd. happy


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