Forums Forums National News Poll : The E.U. What do we want?

another hear hear.we need to get out.

It's absolutely nothing to do with someone's political preference is in this country. This is not an election for our governing party, and anyone who thinks otherwise obviously hasn't a clue about what's going on ! Here's a very brief outline and a helping hand .

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Have you got a link for this Granny?I did not see this if it was on in the daytime.

Here is some of it snowy
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35923510
and
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32534302

Thankyou Snowshoes.

Another little surprise involving the EU:

John McDonnell has been banging on about re-nationalising the steel industry. He obviously doesn't now much as according to this, EU rules don't really allow it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

The UK government has said it will consider helping Port Talbot steelworks - but any intervention risks falling foul of European Union state aid rules.

The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market.

The final decision on whether state aid is allowed is down to the European Commission.

It applies rules agreed by every country in the EU.

But the steel industry is a special case.

Because the European Union already produces more steel than it needs, the member states of the EU agreed to allow uneconomical producers to go bust, rather than let governments save them.

So that is the first question for Port Talbot and the other parts of Tata Steel UK - can they survive on their own? If they can't then the government's hands are tied.

Possible exceptions

There are some ways round the rules.

The first is national security. Under the 1957 Treaty of Rome, one of the founding treaties of the EU, countries can "take any measures necessary" if an industry is essential to national security.

This is supposed to refer to arms, munitions and "war material". Does it apply to hot rolled steel? Legal experts think it's unlikely, although Lord West, the former First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff has told the BBC that UK production is vital for the defence sector.

The second is a move to avoid "a serious disturbance to the economy". This was one of the arguments used to justify the bank bailouts.

It might also be used to justify aid to the Greek banking system.

But the loss of 15,000 UK jobs - or even 40,000 UK and European jobs - may simply not be considered a serious enough disturbance by the European Commission to justify a government handout.

When state aid isn't state aid

The last option isn't state aid at all. A government can own a company under state aid rules but it is not allowed to keep it going if it would otherwise fail.

This is the closest the government can come to "nationalisation".

If the government can convince the European Commission that buying a business is a sensible move that any investor would make for a profit then it is not classified as state aid.

However with Port Talbot reportedly losing £1 million a day this may be a tough sell.

So how are we allowed to own

BBC
Channel 4
Wave Hub
Student Loans Company
Working Links

Then you can look at localised companies - who exactly owns:-

Merseytravel
Manchester Airports Group

Other European countries have been running unapproved state aid for years, eg France and their indirect power subsidies which created an unfair advantage to all of of their industry.

The Tariff system is their for a purpose, its to protect our own country from financial assault from other countries.

Despite our Government about us being so productive etc, our balance of payments are the worst they have ever been since 1782 or something, have a look at the graph since 1955 HERE

Possibly because they are not competitive with EU member states, i.e. Industry . Everything is all so tied up hidden facts, agendas and treaties, it's difficult to reason on anything.

BBC is paid for by the license fee, so the public must own it.

Student Loans, is non profit making, and Working Links is in public, private and voluntary ownership. Don't know about the others, but that could be something to do with such organisations.

Surely everyone knows that State subsidies exist in the E.U. often in obscure form. France and Italy are notorious in this respect. Our problem is that we're British, and so follow the rules.

So are the steel works!

Did anyone see News Night, last night. A full programme given to the subject of Sovereignty and the EU .
Interesting, and a few more bits we didn't either know or realise. Peter Mandelson on it for the 'IN' campaigners and what a pain he was.

I'm convinced he going off his trolley, but another one of those who constantly interrupts another who is speaking. Tactics , yes, but annoying and rude, as we need to hear exactly what is being said. So, he has made me more determined to support Brexit.

They are going to do another one (next week I think) and it seems to be all that is being given , so far.

Mandelson always was the epitome of what a Brit and a politician shouldn't be like.

He's a worming little tyke. All I see is Gollum/Smeagol

According to todays news, the IMF (International Monetary Fund) says that Brexit could cause severe global and regional damage.
Not sure why we should be supporting the globe ! We pay enough in foreign aid, unlike others.


Top 10 reasons to oppose the IMF.

http://www.globalexchange.org/resources/wbimf/oppose

All the more reason the rest of the world will cooperate with us if we do leave the EU, most countries won't be daft enough to muck up their own financial status as retribution for the Brexit.

It would amaze me if the EU would not be pretty cooperative, they will make a lot of noise before but when it has happened they have little choice or admit that the EU was a diplomatic takeover of the UK.

Dodgy daves "better in" leaflet came yesterday. Does he have the authority to speak dictate as HM Government. He is only prime minister not the government.