Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request History behind a walking stick.

There may well have been symbolism involved lud, who knows. Could also have been the maker thinking ah, ball in a cage, seen that done, I can do it to make this look more impressive, and Ill do quick scoops all round the bottom third , to make up the time! Thats part of the magic of the stick isnt it. We will never know exactly what was in the carvers mind c 130 years ago!

Bert , have you found in the past that the words Dene and Deene are used for the same reference to a valley or whatever?
Wonder if the stick was just picked up in an auction rather than originally owned by someone local.Could be in some way connected with Deene in Northants if so.
Its clear it was presented to M ROBERTS , so perhaps the inscription Sinnon on the matchcover was added by a later owner - as its quite sketchily done.

@granny - yes, of course the 2X2 could have been scribed at a later date - I hadn't thought of that and it wouldn't be an unusual practice.

I think you are on the right track, Lud. Definitely symbolic and could be a folk art piece, added to as years went by.

I'm a bit puzzled by the Lord bishop of Chester possibly having a few puffs as he went on his merry way.

@ Venice, I think the caged ball in walking staffs, was to do with balance. I did read that somewhere, but how it works is a mystery.

Found it......

"Hiking staffs, or staves, as they were called, were used ever since man stood up right. All people in mountainous areas carried five-foot staves to assist themselves going up and down hills. In Europe, the famous Alpine staff is the favorite. It is an oak staff with a ball on the top and a steel spike at the bottom; the ball balances the staff"

http://www.customwalkingsticks.com/ws_du_sec.shtml

How tall is the walking stick.
and could Sinnon be Simeon or Sion ?

http://s376.photobucket.com/user/maryloy/slideshow/

Have used an old photobucket thing. Hope it works. Bit disorganized order for photos, but you'll get the overall picture. Ill measure it shortly granny.


ps Its 86cm tall

I see Ive missed off an example of the 2x2 scallop sideways version. Ill see if I can find it and add.

ok seems to have added although not to the same batch. Youve got everything now.

Theres the remains of a small link chain on the shaft ,one either side but only a few links left so dont know how long it was. You can see it in one of the photos, I think it would be too uncomforable to be a wrist strap, but cant think of any other purpose?

Hawthorn Dene, Hoole Road, Chester. Is that not the present Dene Hotel ?

Maybe the lady from there, moved to Puddington and named her cottage after her old house.

Interesting, it appears to have been carved by at least three people - or one person in a rush at times.

Its not professionally carved or inscribed, I doubt if its an apprentice piece also.

Typical of prisoner-of-war type pieces but unlikely in this case.

I'd plump for a school piece.

I presume the chain "latched" the handle down?

@granny will come along and blow all I've said out the water now with something she finds

QUOTE DD "I'd plump for a school piece." Could be - its definitely a bit scabby here and there . Pretty skilled in the ball and chain area though for a schoolgoer.Still you do find gifted 'artists' show up young.

Thanks for everyones input , most interesting. Ill let you know if I get any further after contacting the museum - and I think there may be a history society for Flintshire .

Thanks for posting the pics - it does have a kind of 'sampler' feel to it. My great-uncle Ernie's walking stick, very simple with a ball top to fit in the palm of the hand, measures 84cm in length, for comparison. He was not a tall man. Quite a mystery!

All the 2's that are really throwing me. 2 is a very important number and particularly in Judaism .

Ludwig may be close.

Judaism
The number 2 is important in Judaism, with one of the earliest reference being that God ordered Noah to put two of every unclean animal (Gen. 7:2) in his ark (see Noah's Ark). Later on, the Ten Commandments were given in the form of two tablets. The number also has ceremonial importance, such as the two candles that are traditionally kindled to usher in the Shabbat, recalling the two different ways Shabbat is referred to in the two times the Ten Commandments are recorded in the Torah "


This link seems to have various description on the symbolism of 2.

http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu2.php

The stick looks quite battered and it's lovely to see it, which gives a different idea and thought process.

Maybe it was a leaving gift to a head of a school , possibly a religious school, but that's another trail to be followed DD. i.e.Your job

Really interesting Venice, and it's beginning to annoy me , but something will turn up, I'm sure. All eyes focus on Bert

Thanks for the pics Venice.....been struggling to visualise this Stick.

Grandad (95 y.o) uses his Grandads stick but it is just a basic wooden one with nobbles et al.

I find it odd that there is so little mention of Hawthorn Dene, Chester. Mention of it in newspapers is proof it existed as a residence and yet it doesn't seem to be in directories or census returns. To prove or eliminate M Roberts actually living there at any time, Electoral registers may be the only way. I think they would have to be searched at Cheshire records office.


While searching various sources, I did come across prizes for Bike races, Winners receiving money, runners up, Walking sticks. The mind boggles, who needs a walking stick if you can finish second in a bike race.
Just thought I'd mention it.

Dont forget the Deene is spelled differently Bert. (Maybe as in Caldy the place and Calday the Grammer school within) . However Im wondering if maybe Hawthorne Deene was a small private church school too small or short lived/poverty stricken to get a mention , and that the stick was a present to its benefactor or head master, carved by a schoolgoers parent or something when it closed. The actual property it was housed in,may have been a private residence called something else entirely .

Its funny how lumps of history do disappear, Ive got photograph of a yearly festival held somewhere round Northop Hall Clwyd where they held ' The Queen of the Lakes' competition . No mention at all that I could find though , online.Some things just arent important enough to survive .