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Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! #992685
23rd Nov 2015 9:04pm
23rd Nov 2015 9:04pm
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venice Offline OP

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Panorama---- The VW emissions issue ! Sick of it! If my OH screeches at the TV once more that petrol cars ALSO produce particulates and other such claims of little interest to me , I will have to strangle him!

Last edited by Mark; 24th Nov 2015 4:36pm. Reason: renamed
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Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992690
23rd Nov 2015 10:12pm
23rd Nov 2015 10:12pm
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Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992697
23rd Nov 2015 11:33pm
23rd Nov 2015 11:33pm
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granny Offline
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Originally Posted by venice
Panorama---- The VW emissions issue ! Sick of it! If my OH screeches at the TV once more that petrol cars ALSO produce particulates and other such claims of little interest to me , I will have to strangle him!


Just stick his head up the exhaust.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992698
23rd Nov 2015 11:34pm
23rd Nov 2015 11:34pm
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Hey Venice --just go on at him about the differing properties of plain and self raising flour.

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992700
23rd Nov 2015 11:44pm
23rd Nov 2015 11:44pm
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I have an electric car so find it amazing at the uproar this has caused.
Everybody has known that the mpgs were miles of real world figures. Why would the emissions not also be way off.

Full disclosure, i also have a diesel car.

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992710
24th Nov 2015 10:24am
24th Nov 2015 10:24am
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Excoriator Online content
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I don't believe battery cars or hybrids are the answer. The former have poor range and and take ages to charge, the latter still burn polluting fossil fuel.

Hydrogen cars are a much better idea. The hydrogen can be produced by electrolysing water using excess renewable power from wind and solar. There is already one hydrogen filling station that produces its hydrogen from its own wind turbine. ( http://www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform ).

The cars have none of the practical disadvantages of electric cars, have ranges limited only by the tank size - typically 300 miles per fill - and are virtually maintenance free (Brakes and tyres). There are only two models available in the UK and they cost around 60,000, but one can expect this to fall rapidly if they become popular.

Cars on average do 40 miles a day, and this would need about 0.75 kg of hydrogen. To produces this using the most efficient electrolyser would require about 40kWh. A 3MW turbine can be expected to supply about a third of that - 1MW, or 24MWh - so in a day would produce enough hydrogen to meet the needs of 600 cars.

Some time back I read a piece by an American worried about where the water would come from. Unlike our country, theirs is chronically short of water, and the needs of cars would have a significant impact on it in some parts. But he seemed to have forgotten that the exhaust of hydrogen cars is water which could easily be collected and recycled. One kg of hydrogen would produce 9kg of water, which could easily be stored on board and returned to the filling station!

In line with the 'full disclosure' policy of Blueskier I admit to having a Medium sized diesel and a small petrol car. Both have their disadvantages, and I can't wait for hydrogen cars to arrive at a cost I can afford (about 10p at the moment!)

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992720
24th Nov 2015 1:37pm
24th Nov 2015 1:37pm
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venice Offline OP

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venice  Offline OP

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Yay, I survived the night with the topic moved on as to how much he hates Donald Trump ! Ifeel far more patient today grin
OH actually is along the same thought lines as both you Blueskier, and Excoriator too. Hes been following the progress of hydrogen cars with great interest. When they do 5 seaters with a decent range on one realistic tank size, I reckon he'll be in there! Bit of waiting time yet .

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992734
24th Nov 2015 3:50pm
24th Nov 2015 3:50pm
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Hi Excoriator, been here before i believe.
Venice, hydrogen is the fuel of the future no doubt. And always will be.
Electric cars are here, now and relatively cheap.

Now about this flour.......

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992779
24th Nov 2015 7:51pm
24th Nov 2015 7:51pm
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I'm more interested in the technology as a way of storing intermittent energy. Cars, I find rather boring.

Although you have a choice of two production models here in the UK at the moment and a third one coming out soon. All are five seaters I believe, but all are expensive. The first two are around 50 to 60 grand. The Honda Clarity fuel cell will be about 40 grand.

Honda is planning on developing a home electrolysis unit so you can manufacture hydrogen yourself with power from your solar panels or mains. They have evidently recognised that the lack of filling stations is a problem for sales, and solved it by eliminating the need for them!

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: venice] #992842
25th Nov 2015 3:08pm
25th Nov 2015 3:08pm
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Can we extrapolate this hydrogen system to use in the home?

Re: Panorama --Grrughrrrrgruurr! [Re: Moonstar] #992844
25th Nov 2015 3:43pm
25th Nov 2015 3:43pm
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Originally Posted by Moonstar
Can we extrapolate this hydrogen system to use in the home?

You could, but its doubtful if there is any advantage, a car has requirements for portability, weight and size these are not as critical in a home so other solutions remain advantageous.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

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