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Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits #988068
25th Oct 2015 6:39pm
25th Oct 2015 6:39pm
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Mark Offline OP

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Labour has said it would support the government if it delayed plans to reduce tax credits, amid efforts to kill off the proposals entirely.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said cuts should be put on hold to study the impact on those affected and at least three years of transitional help given.
Labour would "not make political capital" out of any U-turn, he said.
Education Secretary Nicky Morgan said Labour had no "credible alternative" and the "policy wasn't changing".
She told the BBC's Andrew Marr show that Chancellor George Osborne was in "listening mode", ahead of a series of key votes on the issue on the House of Lords on Monday, where the government does not have a majority and faces possible defeat.
But she said she was not aware of any discussions about watering down the changes and it was important that the "overall package" offered by the government, including a new living wage, more free childcare and a higher personal income tax allowance, was taken into account.

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Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988221
26th Oct 2015 7:45pm
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Here.
RUDEBOX Offline
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Here.
House Of Lords- get in!!!!


Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988263
26th Oct 2015 9:53pm
26th Oct 2015 9:53pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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House of Lords has delayed the case - a good result in the short term but its going to be a catastrophe in the long term.

The House of Lords doesn't make sense, on principal I strongly disagree with it BUT I am one of its strongest supporters, it works as an excellent safety net as this case has shown.

The catatstrophe? Its either going have its powers clipped or be changed into a completely different creature, Cameron won't take this defeat sitting down and unfortunately he has the power to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Its not the first time the the Lords has impeded a Government and its been under threat before but many believe that this is the Government that wants sole control.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: diggingdeeper] #988297
27th Oct 2015 8:54am
27th Oct 2015 8:54am
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palemoon Offline
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Ah!..... the gob on Osborne raftl

Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988320
27th Oct 2015 10:47am
27th Oct 2015 10:47am
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granny Offline
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I thought it was the 'amazing' plan of IDS who had introduced this change to the scheme. There is also some unification with EU in either Tax Credit, Universal Credit or both. Under the changes, EU Job Seekers will not be able to claim these benefits until they have worked here for three months.
The Universal Credit was thought to cost 2.5 billion to roll out, instead it's cost 12.5 billion. !!

Changes have to be made if we are to move on, but personally IDS makes me scream from within. How does anyone get to such a major position of importance and inflicting changes on so many peoples lives, without qualifying or passing a single exam at a higher level of education ???? His whole life is a lie and he should go back to Scotland.

The Tax Credit system was an appalling idea in the first place, but we have now been entrenched in this idea and we feel we deserve it. Companies should have been paying a decent wage instead of scooping up the profits and redistributing in the form of 'bonuses' to the highest earners at the expense of the 'tax payers' and making people 'stinking rich' as Mr Mandelson called it. He had no objections and neither did Blair or Brown. All I can understand is, that they took the tax to give it back to the most wealthy and businesses , under a different label.

Along the same lines now, as the Lords have put a hold on it. Could it have anything to do with the fact that most of those sitting in the House of Lords are on the Board of Directors or Company owners and that they could indirectly be looking after their own best interest, with regard to rising wages ?

Nothing has ever been as straight forward as it appears , and I'm a ferret at heart.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988334
27th Oct 2015 12:31pm
27th Oct 2015 12:31pm
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granny Offline
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Here you are, in black and white;

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-house-of-lords-mixes-politics-and-business-1415693056


For centuries, the upper chamber of the British Parliament was filled largely by the landed gentry. But in 1999, then-Prime Minister Tony Blair ’s government replaced most of the hereditary lords with business people, civic leaders and politicians appointed for life. .............

Mr. Blair said the shift would “end the feudal domination of one half of our legislature.” Opponents said he was turning the House of Lords into a den of patronage—a “House of Cronies” to be occupied by a lord of “Lobbygate” and lord of “Offshore Funds,” said then-Conservative Party leader William Hague.......

Much as Mr. Hague had predicted, many lords now have ties to organizations that engage in lobbying, including one lord who agreed to be a lobbyist for an offshore-fund haven. Sixty-eight others give advice on government affairs to companies, trade groups or other organizations, or work for companies that specialize in government relations, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of financial disclosures as of early August.
One hundred and thirteen draw paychecks from financial-services firms. Twenty-six are paid by resource-extraction companies. Twenty work for foreign governments, in capacities that include advising officials on policy and consulting for government-controlled companies.

Some of those jobs materialized after they joined the House of Lords.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny] #988341
27th Oct 2015 1:04pm
27th Oct 2015 1:04pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
The Universal Credit was thought to cost 2.5 billion to roll out, instead it's cost 12.5 billion. !!


And it is nowhere near like rolled out yet, IDS keeps it very close to his chest how much it is rolled out to hide the fact that he has cherry-picked the easy parts.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny] #988342
27th Oct 2015 1:07pm
27th Oct 2015 1:07pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
Much as Mr. Hague had predicted, many lords now have ties to organizations that engage in lobbying, including one lord who agreed to be a lobbyist for an offshore-fund haven. Sixty-eight others give advice on government affairs to companies, trade groups or other organizations, or work for companies that specialize in government relations, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of financial disclosures as of early August.
One hundred and thirteen draw paychecks from financial-services firms. Twenty-six are paid by resource-extraction companies. Twenty work for foreign governments, in capacities that include advising officials on policy and consulting for government-controlled companies.

Some of those jobs materialized after they joined the House of Lords.


Exactly the same as the House of Commons.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988658
28th Oct 2015 7:50pm
28th Oct 2015 7:50pm
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granny Offline
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This has been sent to me.

When the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.


An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked well since no one would be poor and no one would be rich, thus providing a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on the Socialist plan" ... All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A ... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they likewise studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one was motivated to study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward (and risk) is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will work really hard to succeed. F.




These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.


Last edited by granny; 28th Oct 2015 7:53pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988671
28th Oct 2015 9:03pm
28th Oct 2015 9:03pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,501
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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One would hope that an Professor of Economics would have better knowledge of what socialism is - but of course this story was originated by a capitalist who are experts at spreading malicious rubbish everywhere for personal gain.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: diggingdeeper] #988673
28th Oct 2015 9:12pm
28th Oct 2015 9:12pm
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granny Offline
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It's a Professor of Economics . wink


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988676
28th Oct 2015 9:19pm
28th Oct 2015 9:19pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,231
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Mark Offline OP

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Watch the videos : CLick me

Cameron will not answer.. .

Last edited by Mark; 28th Oct 2015 9:23pm.

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Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988680
28th Oct 2015 9:25pm
28th Oct 2015 9:25pm
Joined: Jul 2008
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diggingdeeper Offline

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And its a "Professor of Economics" not an Economics Professor - the reversal is how I ended up with "an" instead of "a" doh.

I'll stick with Maths, its easier than English.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: Mark] #988694
28th Oct 2015 10:08pm
28th Oct 2015 10:08pm
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granny Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark
Watch the videos : CLick me

Cameron will not answer.. .


Yeh, watched it this afternoon. He continues to get stuck on repeat, and churn out the same answers, as have the rest of them when asked about the same subject.

Delay tactics, whilst the backroom boys come up with a plan that will be sneaked in under the blankets, so no one has to admit defeat. (Just my thoughts)

Pensioners will be the next target for them.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Labour 'would support any U-turn' over tax credits [Re: granny] #988742
29th Oct 2015 9:10am
29th Oct 2015 9:10am
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wallasey
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Hello granny, yes I fear you are right about the pensioners, said at a fringe meeting during the Cons party conference, we should take the free bus passes and heating allowances away along with the cost of living rise on pensions, by the time of the next election most of them will be dead or will have forgotten which party it was that took those benefits away!!! perhaps Gideon will consider those outlandish requests to rehash his budget plans, who knows?

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