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#95302 - 19th Nov 2005 2:48pm Whats wrong with this.?
Smiler198 Offline
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Registered: 5th Jan 2005
Posts: 199
Loc: None
K&N had the car for R&D of a new filter they plan to bring out for car. They wanted to manufacture a fitting kit for the filter. Part of the deal was that i got the filter for free.

They ran the car in standard trim, and with the filter fitted. The graph shows a gain, tho the torque figure is completely out....way way way way out. That figure is same as 433Nm, the clio as standard gives 200Nm or torque...

Any of you dyno people who know more than me advise me right...

Can see we have a 8.5bhp increase, tho unsure if it can be trusted. The car is a Clio 182...

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#95303 - 21st Nov 2005 12:57am Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Dazza Offline
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Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
Unsure as to what exactly is wrong here?
Your torque has increased and if you look it mirrors the original torque readings, but at a gain. You havnt said what NM they are as the graph only shows lbs - Maybe this is were am going wrong?
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#95304 - 21st Nov 2005 7:58pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
John WRX Offline
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Registered: 18th Nov 2003
Posts: 1663
Loc: Tranmere
thats right Dazza, could be different scale throwing you out mate. That is a high amount of torque though to be honest.
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#95305 - 22nd Nov 2005 3:14pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Smiler198 Offline
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Registered: 5th Jan 2005
Posts: 199
Loc: None
That was the thing, the car standard only produces 200Nm or torque...

That figure for the standard torque works out to be 433Nm...

Far far far to much.

Was wondering how we could tell if this thing can be relied upon.

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#95306 - 22nd Nov 2005 3:53pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
scoop Offline
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Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
Thats very very wierd. The torque readings are way above what they should be. And also they note the figures @ speeds not at RPM.

To give u an idea,the 2.0 zetec dazza has produces 136ft/lb's give or take and thats at 5250RPM give or take.

They are wierd figures,dont worry ur car is not broken,its just the read out.

Your engine shouldnt be very torquey anyway as u have peak power way above 6 and a half thou. The lower down ur BHP peaks the higher torque u will have.

Torque= (power/peak power RPM)x5250

For instance (150BHP/5500RPM) x 5250= 143ft/lbs
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#95307 - 22nd Nov 2005 4:28pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
scoop Offline
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Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
U are somewhere between 95.53ft/lbs and 112.11ft/lb. Thats really low. Oh im confused
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#95308 - 22nd Nov 2005 9:25pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Smiler198 Offline
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Registered: 5th Jan 2005
Posts: 199
Loc: None
It was more of 'can the graph be relied upon' than torque figure. This is the before and after of the K&N fitment of the Apollo filter.

They claim i got 8.5bhp. You can feel it rev faster, and pull harder, tho no graph, no proof.

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#95309 - 23rd Nov 2005 12:45am Re: Whats wrong with this.?
DavidB Offline
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Registered: 7th Dec 2003
Posts: 5599
Loc: Bebington, Wirral
Was it recorded via flywheel or roadwheel?
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#95310 - 23rd Nov 2005 2:07pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Smiler198 Offline
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Registered: 5th Jan 2005
Posts: 199
Loc: None
The engine was fitted to the car, how can you measure flywheel if its in the car.?

Yes, it was at the wheels.

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#95311 - 23rd Nov 2005 3:49pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Dazza Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 10th Nov 2003
Posts: 2899
Loc: Birkenhead
Its done threw calculations and certain factors like where the engine is situated and drivetrain losses.
Its possible it a flywheel reading
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#95312 - 23rd Nov 2005 4:32pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
To convert from:_______To:________Multiply by:
BHP__________________PS_________1.01387
BHP__________________Ft Lbs_____550
BHP__________________Watts______745.7
PS___________________Kg/M_______75
Kilowatts______________BHP________1.341
Kilowatts______________PS_________1.360
Lb Ft__________________Nm_________1.356


Conversion table for power and torque if ya want it.

Flywheel horsepower estimates are pointless IMO.WHP is the actual figure that matters and for instance

Imagine these 2 cars are brand new with brand new engines and brand new drivetrain

A ford escort 1.6 90BHP(flywheel) could get 75BHP down to the wheels through its drivetrain

A 90BHP Peugeot could get 73BHP down to the wheels through the drivetrain, or 77.

All depends how good the drivetrain is.So having a generic calculation is pap.

On a very similar note. Some people say tuning a 1.8 ZETEC is pointless. Even though u can get a proven 35BHP gain very easily they say the torque remains the same so the car wont actually be faster.What does power do if more power does not make it a faster/quicker car
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#95313 - 24th Nov 2005 9:57am Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Cali_16v Offline
Wiki Guide

Registered: 17th May 2004
Posts: 6261
Loc: Birkenhead
where talking about a clio scoop not fords AGAIN
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#95314 - 24th Nov 2005 11:46pm Re: Whats wrong with this.?
scoop Offline
Wiki Addict

Registered: 18th Nov 2004
Posts: 7238
Loc: Leuchars
Im using them as examples as i know theyre figures and how to tune them. I did say example
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#95315 - 25th Nov 2005 12:47am Re: Whats wrong with this.?
Smiler198 Offline
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Registered: 5th Jan 2005
Posts: 199
Loc: None
This was at the wheel...

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