WikiWirral values you and your opinion.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,010,753
Topics74,660
Members12,792
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs36
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
62 registered members (baldybrewer, 14 invisible), 1,056 guests, and326 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
169 Dynasties
34 J.F.K
New General Forums
The Darling Buds of May
by diggingdeeper. 15th Nov 2018 1:08pm
Book batteries.
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 8:54am
J.F.K
by cools. 12th Nov 2018 12:44pm
Happy Birthday Detecting Wirral and Roobarb
by snowhite. 12th Nov 2018 10:58am
New Wirral History
Rock Ferry boat disaster 1834?
by yoller. 9th Nov 2018 10:10am
Birkenhead riots
by yoller. 6th Nov 2018 9:13am
Mersey ferries, 1840s
by yoller. 28th Oct 2018 2:01pm
756 Scrap Yard Wallasey Road Liscard
by derekdwc. 16th Oct 2018 8:00pm
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam. 4th Aug 2018 11:28am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
No more bridge, never be the same
Topic Replies
Gay Stress
by casper. 18th Nov 2018 2:30pm
Shen Yun at Empire Theatre
by fish5133. 18th Nov 2018 1:07pm
320d won't pass emission test
by fish5133. 18th Nov 2018 12:46pm
What song are you listening to?
by eggandchips. 18th Nov 2018 12:44pm
FOUND - Car key
by Brown_Horrocks. 18th Nov 2018 12:05pm
Bidston Hill Underground Tunnels Part 2
by Maxman2000x. 17th Nov 2018 10:36pm
£2bn Extra for NHS
by diggingdeeper. 17th Nov 2018 8:31pm
Dynasties
by cools. 17th Nov 2018 9:54am
Best Fuel Prices Wirral
by diggingdeeper. 17th Nov 2018 12:17am
November
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Shen Yun at Empire Theatre
by fish5133. 18th Nov 2018 1:07pm
Wirral Quilters Exhibition
by Greenwood. 12th Nov 2018 12:10pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice #936716
24th Mar 2015 3:19pm
24th Mar 2015 3:19pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 33
wirral
E
Emlou19 Offline OP
Newbeee
Emlou19  Offline OP
Newbeee
E
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 33
wirral
Hello, I remember recently reading on wiki Wirral about someone who had a car parking charge notice but wasn't a council appointed parking notice, I was wondering if anyone could link me to this please?. If not can anybody help me out, My in laws recently got a car parking charge notice for entering Aldi car park in prenton at 13:43 and leaving at 15:29 they were in the car park for 1 hour 46 minuets, Is there a limit to this car park as I have never noticed one before on previous visits, also the company is parkingEye?

Im just wondering if this is correct and there is a limit to this carpark? Thank you

Last edited by Mark; 27th Mar 2015 2:11pm. Reason: renamed
Google Ads
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936732
24th Mar 2015 4:25pm
24th Mar 2015 4:25pm
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,856
Wallasey
S
Salmon Offline
Forum Addict
Salmon  Offline
Forum Addict
S
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,856
Wallasey
The details will be correct but Aldi seem to be very approachable over such things. They advise you to do this; Please email our Customer Services team regarding this - they will be able to help. Their address is aldicustomerservices@webershandwick.comyo

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936752
24th Mar 2015 5:10pm
24th Mar 2015 5:10pm
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 511
Wallasey Village
Uffda Offline
Smartchild
Uffda  Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 511
Wallasey Village
I know some or all Lidl stores have an hour and a half limit so it may be the same for all similar supermarkets. The one near TJ Hughes in London Rd, Liverpool definitely has this and there are signs advertising this fact.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936757
24th Mar 2015 5:27pm
24th Mar 2015 5:27pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
The Prenton Aldi signs were changed not that long ago, they have always had a sign at the entrance to the car park. However, there might have been a period when it was obscured, there are other signs round the car park though.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...3m4!1e1!3m2!1swWSNkhwDCCBuDQCZ-dBbLQ!2e0

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXXX-0rORAUtTw5WWP-a9bQ!2e0


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936758
24th Mar 2015 5:56pm
24th Mar 2015 5:56pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 395
Tranmere
Kev30x Offline
Old Hand
Kev30x  Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 395
Tranmere
This is probably a long shot but if your in laws have their Aldi reciept from the day in question and send the reciept to parking eye via recorded post (Keep a copy of recipt too) and explain that they were held up in Aldi's shopping cue then Parking eye will waive the fine.

I say its a long shot as the in laws will probably not have their reciept from the day in question.

If they do not have their reciept then there is no other way out of this as Parking eye have now been granted some sort of new powers were we can no longer ignore their fines like once upon a time and get away with it.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936762
24th Mar 2015 6:38pm
24th Mar 2015 6:38pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
They also listen to mitigation based on age or disability if they are relevant.

I don't think that Parking Eye have new powers, it was just that they used to make enough money without taking people to court as most paid up, however, word got round and less and less people were paying so Parking Eye started issuing summons in quantity to reverse the customer's attitude.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936799
24th Mar 2015 8:20pm
24th Mar 2015 8:20pm
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 497
Wallasey
K
kamikazi Offline
Smartchild
kamikazi  Offline
Smartchild
K
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 497
Wallasey
Dont Pay and you get threats and intimidation for about 12 weeks, the threats get wilder and bigger, if you can hold out they will go away, its a civil matter not enforceable by any laws.

Alternately pay the fine and then systematically steal or break goods and objects in the store to a greater value than the fine. Do this at every visit over a similair time period, this wont get your money back, but will give you a feeling of great satisfaction

Over a five year period you will have cost them thousands, they will rue the day they crossed you, its a matter of pride now and a part of your every day routine.

In the small hours- waiting for daybreak, you smile to yourself knowing that you won and will keep winning.

K


Last edited by kamikazi; 24th Mar 2015 8:21pm.
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: kamikazi] #936832
24th Mar 2015 9:21pm
24th Mar 2015 9:21pm
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 241
Eastham
G
goodoldphil Offline
Addict
goodoldphil  Offline
Addict
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 241
Eastham
Kamikaze is obviously a person not to be crossed, I got a good laugh at his post his is a drastic way of dealing with the problem but I suppose revenge is sweet. lamethrower

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936838
24th Mar 2015 10:23pm
24th Mar 2015 10:23pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Go through the motions of their appeals process but you need the magic phrase of "the parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss".
They will try and say it is commercially justifiable as in Parking Eye v Beavis but this is currently waiting the court of appeal decision so is not to be relied upon. They are deliberately misleading people by not reporting this.
Demand a POPLA code and cost them money!.
Google Pepipoo Parking Eye. Warning though, it can become quite addictive fighting these scumbags.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936842
24th Mar 2015 10:48pm
24th Mar 2015 10:48pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
G
GeeMeister Offline
Smartchild
GeeMeister  Offline
Smartchild
G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
Kamikazi sounds sick, very very sick lol. Does he knock on peoples doors in his boxers inviting the occupant out to exercise? (See other posts if you dont understand). His plan for revenge will back fire, you will be banned from the store before any substancial period of payback but you may get a kick out of it.....Go ahead, make your day lol

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #936928
25th Mar 2015 10:40am
25th Mar 2015 10:40am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 73
oxton
M
montyz Offline
Member
montyz  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 73
oxton
Parking Eye have no statutory authority to levy parking charges. As someone else said, it is a civil matter, like me charging you for standing on my doorstep. I got one of these demands three months ago. I ignored it and nothing further happened. You may get further threatening demands of legal action etc but it's all huff and bluff. You won't get taken to court. Even if they were to try it you could just say it wasn't you driving. They can't prove otherwise, so game over. Forget about it.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: montyz] #936943
25th Mar 2015 12:05pm
25th Mar 2015 12:05pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by montyz
Parking Eye have no statutory authority to levy parking charges. As someone else said, it is a civil matter, like me charging you for standing on my doorstep.


Everybody has a right to levy charges, do you mean they don't have a statutory authority to levy FINES?

County Court hearings where the Claimant was Parking Eye Ltd, Parking Eye, ParkingEye or any slight variations upon them between 01.04.2013 and 31.03.2014.

Number of Hearings 252
Judgement in favour of the Claimant 217
Claim Dismissed or Struck out 12
Other 23

Of particular note was case 3QT56025, Defendant ordered to pay 200 to ParkingEye Ltd. Defendant argued that ParkingEye's parking charge was disproportionate to the loss incurred. The Judge did not find this a persuasive argument. However a test case for this defence has been heard this year and the outcome is yet to be declared.

Also case 3QT22034, Defendant ordered to pay 350 to ParkingEye Ltd. Defendant argued that she had not seen the signage and therefore had never entered a contract with the Claimant and that the signage was not clear. The Judge ruled that the signage was adequately displayed and therefore found in ParkingEye's favour.



In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #936986
25th Mar 2015 2:59pm
25th Mar 2015 2:59pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 73
oxton
M
montyz Offline
Member
montyz  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 73
oxton
Charges, fines, call it what you like. There is no initial charge made for parking. Parking Eyes excess charge cases depend on whether you have breached an implicit (in their view) contract imposed by their sign limiting you to one and a half hours or whatever. Its not criminal or common law, its a civil matter, as I said. The solution is very simple. PE bill the KEEPER of the vehicle as revealed by DVLA from the reg no supplied by their ANPR cameras. The DRIVER at the time is solely responsible for parking/motoring offences. The KEEPER is not responsible for the actions of the DRIVER at the time. PEs case is against the DRIVER but as they have no staff on the ground they have no evidence who was driving unless you give it to them. If hassled by them and feeling obliged to respond, all you have to do is explain, using the form they send you, that the vehicle was being driven by your cousin visiting from Nigeria (for instance). You can give them an address if you like. The onus is on PE to prove you were driving, or pursue the actual driver as revealed by you. Without evidence it was you (by you being dumb enough to reply to their letters implicitly admitting you were at the wheel) they have no case against you. Good luck to them finding your cousin in Nigeria. End of story. Obviously you do have a genuine cousin in Nigeria who was driving. You wouldnt want to use underhand methods against such upstanding and honourable public servants like Parking Eye, would you?

PS I rather liked Kamikazes extreme solution, but I couldnt possibly condone breaking the law

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937053
25th Mar 2015 6:26pm
25th Mar 2015 6:26pm
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,856
Wallasey
S
Salmon Offline
Forum Addict
Salmon  Offline
Forum Addict
S
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,856
Wallasey
The registered keeper is responsible for paying not the driver.
From Pepipoo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=47038

Last edited by Salmon; 25th Mar 2015 6:30pm. Reason: Forgot the link
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Salmon] #937122
25th Mar 2015 8:29pm
25th Mar 2015 8:29pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Salmon
The registered keeper is responsible for paying not the driver.
From Pepipoo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=47038


That may be true for fines from councils etc, but in a private car park, the contract is between the car park and the person who parked the car ie the driver. It could be a bit more complicated if the owner was a passenger who instructed the driver to park in the private car park but I think the outcome would still go against the driver as he had ultimate control of the vehicle.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937171
25th Mar 2015 10:13pm
25th Mar 2015 10:13pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
The driver is always responsible under POFA 2012 however if the keeper does not reveal who the driver was at the time then they can be held liable. That is law, however it is a civil matter.
Parking eye do take some cases to court but if you appeal then go through POPLA using the correct terminology it will be accepted.
I have had several (10 or so) done this way, several for posters on this site..
Get it killed off rather than have it drag on and hang over you.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937488
26th Mar 2015 10:11pm
26th Mar 2015 10:11pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
You Must be logged in to see the images

** Please Note these Signs can change or be moved **
These are the signs seen today, At the Prenton Aldi, Home and Bargain Car Park.

Parking Eye is Running the Private Parking March 26th 2015
These are the Signs that are visible today.

Google Maps View. Approach to the car park.

[Linked Image]

As you Turn in to the Car park (Yes easy to see if your standing still).

[Linked Image]

Close up
[Linked Image]

In the car park I could only see 2 Signs on posts.
These i noticed are facing away from the Stores.

[Linked Image]

Outside Aldi's Entrance
[Linked Image]

Outside Home and Bargin
[Linked Image]

Close up of the Sign
[Linked Image]

Close up of the Terms : See Closer Click Me
[Linked Image]

The ANPR Camera's on the Sign post in the middle of the car park. (See above).
Strange how the Terms and Conditions on the Yellow Sign is a Sticker, that could come off.

Last edited by Mark; 27th Mar 2015 8:54am.

My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937514
27th Mar 2015 1:08am
27th Mar 2015 1:08am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Well done Mark for taking the time to get those pictures.
Adds extra points on the appeal. Entrance signage is inadequate.

Reminded me that i have actually defeated these shysters on behalf of my Aunt at this very location.

If the original poster wants to PM me i will happily advise directly but all the info is on pepipoo or parking prankster (who is humorous as well).

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937515
27th Mar 2015 1:26am
27th Mar 2015 1:26am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
G
GeeMeister Offline
Smartchild
GeeMeister  Offline
Smartchild
G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
As much as I despise people being charged excessively for parking I can't agree that entrance signage is inadequate as they appear in the photos as pretty adequate to me. I know I may be missing the point but they can be seen.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937533
27th Mar 2015 8:59am
27th Mar 2015 8:59am
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Ive just added a new image to my post above. Ive included now Street View Approach to the car park.

If you enter the car park in street view you can see the old signs which were even worse at the entrance. Pre ANPR.

Highway Code signs have red triangles for warnings why do these car parks not include an eye catching red sign with 70 fine in big letters. A drivers brain reads warnings, blue signs are information.


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937701
28th Mar 2015 12:46am
28th Mar 2015 12:46am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
G
GeeMeister Offline
Smartchild
GeeMeister  Offline
Smartchild
G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
You make a good point over signage colour. Our brains become trained to our environment. Legislation covers road sign design including colour and font size but it doesn't cover 'off road' or private signs. To cover themselves, most companies only need to erect a single advisory notice. It is open to abuse.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937704
28th Mar 2015 6:23am
28th Mar 2015 6:23am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
GeeMeister, Afraid you are wrong with regards to the private companies only needing to erect a single sign and about the design, colours and fonts.
There are strict conditions in the BPA code of practice with regards to all of the above and other criteria in respect of signage.
Having inadequate signage means that a contract has not been formed with the driver so conditions can not be enforced.
Plenty of case History of cases being dismissed due to inadequate signage.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937708
28th Mar 2015 7:39am
28th Mar 2015 7:39am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
G
GeeMeister Offline
Smartchild
GeeMeister  Offline
Smartchild
G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
Thanks for that Blueskier, I happily accept i'm wrong, its so easy to become out of date with such information.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937849
28th Mar 2015 5:00pm
28th Mar 2015 5:00pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
There is a third sign on the building at the park end as well, so five signs with terms and conditions plus the entrance sign, I'd say in this case they have it pretty much covered.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937932
28th Mar 2015 9:30pm
28th Mar 2015 9:30pm
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
Wirral
S
Santos Offline
Old Hand
Santos  Offline
Old Hand
S
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 329
Wirral
I would have thought that ALDI would have wanted to attract customers rather than discourage them by employing car park control. We shop at Tesco Bidston and a few times have forgotten to buy an item. I have returned within four hours to buy it or them so as to finish the shopping. If they had this kind of control on their car park, I would certainly think about changing where I shopped.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #937933
28th Mar 2015 9:32pm
28th Mar 2015 9:32pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 683
Wallasey
Norton Online Reading

Veteran
Norton  Online Reading

Veteran
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 683
Wallasey
I wonder if they got planning permission to erect those signs?

Does the small print pass muster for people with close vision problems?

Is the sticker just hiding the original text that had to be re-worded for legal reasons?

Just a thought.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #937944
28th Mar 2015 9:55pm
28th Mar 2015 9:55pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Most non-illuminated signs below a certain size and height with text below a certain size etc etc are exempt from planning permission.

There is a minimum vision criteria for drivers additionally the signs probably meet the guidelines which are indirectly compulsory, Parking eye are daft, they know the rules.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #938127
29th Mar 2015 12:54pm
29th Mar 2015 12:54pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Parking eye are daft, they know the rules.


Glad we agree on something.
Leaving the signage aside, lets explore the not a genuine pre-estimate of loss argument? Golden bullet at POPLA.
In a civil case the LANDOWNER can claim damages for any loss suffered in cases of trespass or or breach of contract (as is suggested here) flowing directly from the breach.
For an idea of how PE operate look here. http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/government-announces-clamp-down-on.html#comment-form
What are the genuine loss for overstaying in a free car park? Usually 100 according to PE. Really?

Last edited by Blueskier; 29th Mar 2015 12:56pm. Reason: Additional information.
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938198
29th Mar 2015 4:17pm
29th Mar 2015 4:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Loss is assessed for things outside contract, if you have a contract with an agreed price then loss (or amount of profit) doesn't come into it.

You cannot agree a price with someone then renegue on it after the service/item has been provided, that is theft.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #938322
30th Mar 2015 6:50am
30th Mar 2015 6:50am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Really?
Google Dunlop v New Tyre Co.
I dont mean to be condescending but your approach on this matter would lead me to believe you may well have a vested interest in such matters.
You seem to quote the same arguments as the PCC's.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938325
30th Mar 2015 7:02am
30th Mar 2015 7:02am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Anyway the OP seems to have gone quiet here so i will now dip out as it is turning into a tit for tat troll fest.
My advice to the OP.
Go on Pepipoo, do your research, follow the advice and get it killed off or dont pay and have it hanging over you for 6 years or pay up and never shop there again.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938332
30th Mar 2015 7:34am
30th Mar 2015 7:34am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Sorry. One additional thing r.e. terms of a contract. There is the CPUTR legislation which orevents unfair or excessive penalties in a contract. UK law not hearsay.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938379
30th Mar 2015 10:11am
30th Mar 2015 10:11am
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Opinions and information strengthen and keep us involved.

The other person may have gone but many people do benefit by all the information posted.


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938386
30th Mar 2015 10:59am
30th Mar 2015 10:59am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
G
GeeMeister Offline
Smartchild
GeeMeister  Offline
Smartchild
G
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 658
Wirral
I've certainly learned something from this post, thanks.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Blueskier] #938458
30th Mar 2015 4:31pm
30th Mar 2015 4:31pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Blueskier
Really?
Google Dunlop v New Tyre Co.
I dont mean to be condescending but your approach on this matter would lead me to believe you may well have a vested interest in such matters.
You seem to quote the same arguments as the PCC's.


There are a number of counters to using Dunlop case.

In the Dunlop case there was an agreement that the tyres would not be sold below a certain price, if they were sold below, it would be in breach of the contract, the contract additionally added the "penalty" clause should that matter be breached as the seller had no control once the tyres had been passed on). In the car parks case, there is no agreement to stay only for a specified time, the amount you pay depends on how long you choose to stay so their is no breach of contract.

With the car park being "free", what is the normal price? is it free or is it the charge? Depends which way you see it discounted. Obviously there is no such thing as free, therefore the free element has to be seen as the discounted part and the charged part being the normal price.

The car park "penalty" charges have already been through the courts and meet the industry guidelines, therefore they are not classed as penal.

In more recent times than the Dunlop case (which is over 100 years old), the courts default to upholding the contractual terms and in only the most exceptional cases to they identify it as a penalty clause. eg Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Limited v Tilebox Limited (2001), Philips v The Attorney General of Hong Kong(1993).

I really can't understand why numerous people refuse to understand that they do not have the right to free off-road parking. Car parks are often valuable land, if the owner uses it as a car park he has the right to charge, the same as he is allowed to charge if it converted it into an amusement arcade.

I imagine the greater majority of people on this thread have a vested interest in this matter, so what is your point?

If anyone has found a shop car park that has been abused - a few classics near railway stations, they would realise that these charges are actually in the interest of the customers to enable them to have parking available instead of being constantly full of commuter's parking.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938546
30th Mar 2015 8:43pm
30th Mar 2015 8:43pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
Mark and Geemeister, fair comment but i dont think myself and DD are going to come to an agreement over this. DD obviously agrees with Parking Eye that a "penalty" of 100 is acceptable for an overstay in a free (for 1.5 hours) car park.
Boom DD, penalty charge? surely you mean parking charge? as a private company can not issue penalties. Says so in CPUTR.
"Meet industry guidelines"? The industry that polices itself with a body that the parking companies finance themselves. How independent?
You seem to suggest Parking Eye claim it is a contractual charge? Is this the case? So VAT is applicable then and a VAT invoice produced when a PCN is paid? Genuine question.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #938551
30th Mar 2015 9:23pm
30th Mar 2015 9:23pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
It doesn't matter what service is being sold, if you agree to pay an amount, then that is what has to be paid.

Parking eye and VAT has been news for at least 4 years, I'm sure HMRC have looked into it, though it beats me.

I think you misunderstand my stance, I am against anyone getting hit with charges like this, but I'm also against car parks being full because people are taking up slots when they shouldn't be parked there at all. I can't think of another business model that works better than the Private Eye one.

Its good that Aldi(etc) provide free parking for their customers, its bad of the public to use the Aldi car parks when they are doing business elsewhere, the law has to allow Aldi to have control over their own property in a way that prevents abuse of their car parks.

It is completely immoral to dump your vehicle on Aldi's property while you pop over to get your glasses, it is just the same as dumping your car on someone's house drive while you go shopping.



In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #938816
1st Apr 2015 2:05am
1st Apr 2015 2:05am
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
B
Blueskier Offline
Enthusiast
Blueskier  Offline
Enthusiast
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 194
Wallasey
I agree people abusing car parks is totally wrong and they do deserve to have a deterrent. Again it is private land and they surely hold the right to control who has access and for how long etc.
I would be most upset if someone abused my land.
I do however feel a realistic charge would deter without penalising genuine errors, i.e. slight overstays, parking slightly outside the marked bays. Parking eye can only make profit from people breaching the terms which i believe means they will not be reasonable and they certainly dont accept mitigation, for instance the guy who fell on Snowdon and was taken to hospital but was still hit with a PCN.
Finally to say that you can not think of another business model that works better than the PE one.The landowner does not receive any money to compensate for these breaches.
Wow, alienate your genuine customers. Good business model for PE who were bought out by Capita for 57.5 million.


Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #939292
2nd Apr 2015 1:28pm
2nd Apr 2015 1:28pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Parking Eye lease the management of the car parks off the landowner (1000 a week is quoted for some), so the the landowner does profit (indirectly) from the charges.

It does highlight how many people are abusing the car parks and that there is an endemic problem.

In my experience the Snowden case is quite unusual because PE normally back down from any genuine provable mitigation, but I guess the Snowden case not being for a supermarket might make a difference, I think the supermarkets have a "no bad publicity" clause and certainly have an influence over PE.

The next technology will be tracking people after they leave the car to see if they left the property and/or used the relevant store.

I'm sure Argos have people-tracking technology in store, I did a stock check at a catalogue-point then went to a pay-point and it asked me if I wanted to order the item - somehow I was tracked from catalogue-point to the pay-point.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: kamikazi] #939492
3rd Apr 2015 2:53pm
3rd Apr 2015 2:53pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,421
Ellesmere Port
T
Tony_1985 Offline

Forum Master
Tony_1985  Offline

Forum Master
T
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,421
Ellesmere Port
Originally Posted by kamikazi
Dont Pay and you get threats and intimidation for about 12 weeks, the threats get wilder and bigger, if you can hold out they will go away, its a civil matter not enforceable by any laws.



joking aren't you

i parked in a ParkingEye controlled car park in Wigan a couple of years ago like every other member of staff did
we all got ticketed, i refused to pay the fine

4 months later i recieved a letter from Northampton Court.. 150 CCJ imposed

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989566
4th Nov 2015 4:45pm
4th Nov 2015 4:45pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
And for all the doubters ....

The Supreme Court has upheld an 85 charge for overstaying a free car park.

SOURCE


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #989578
4th Nov 2015 5:41pm
4th Nov 2015 5:41pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Source won't let you read the article unless you pay.


Carpe diem.
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989585
4th Nov 2015 5:47pm
4th Nov 2015 5:47pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Unfortunately you have to subscribe to read that link.
Hopefully find a free link soon. Not showing up yet


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989586
4th Nov 2015 5:47pm
4th Nov 2015 5:47pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
I read it free on FT first, but I did mean to post this other link instead .... SOURCE


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989593
4th Nov 2015 6:03pm
4th Nov 2015 6:03pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
Mark Offline

Wiki Master
Mark  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,194
Wirral
I now, make a point of not assuming the last car park operates like the one before regardless of who runs the dam thing.
You need a survival guide nowadays along with a highway code.


My Avatar images are all from the Wirral Gallery.Click Me
Wow Wirral History is coming along Great! Wirral History

we get +200 new members a month now smile
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989774
5th Nov 2015 10:56am
5th Nov 2015 10:56am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,010
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,010
Oxton
Here's a BBC link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-34721126

I've also noticed that the car park further down the road on the corner of Holm Lane belonging to The Swan has now become pay & display.

It was always full of cars not using the Pub.

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989807
5th Nov 2015 2:27pm
5th Nov 2015 2:27pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Online content

Forum Addict
jimbob  Online Content

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
approx. 10 years ago the Swan Car Park had a pay and display machine, it was to the right of the entrance to the car park. after a number of years the machine broke and was not repaired then approx. 5 to 6 years ago one morning there was a movable barrier across the entrance with a security attendant manning it. This continued for about a week. Yes the build up of cars been left there all day long has grown and as you say this week a new pay and display machine has been installed to the left of the entrance as you drive in.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989814
5th Nov 2015 2:50pm
5th Nov 2015 2:50pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Does it really belong to the Swan Hotel?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989831
5th Nov 2015 3:56pm
5th Nov 2015 3:56pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Online content

Forum Addict
jimbob  Online Content

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
when I used the car park during the time the earlier pay and display machine was working you passed a portion of the ticket from the machine over the bar and got the cost of your meal or drink reduce by the amount on the ticket. Many many years ago the piece of land which is the car park had a building on it which was a brewery. Perhaps that answers your question as to ownership of the car park.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989913
6th Nov 2015 12:12am
6th Nov 2015 12:12am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
I suspect that about a third of the carpark may belong to the Pub but roughly the 2/3rds on the Woodchurch Road side may not.

I can't find records of a building being present on any of that that land, unless it was exceedingly short-lived.

I'll try and look into it further but perhaps Pinz or Derek could shed more light?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989973
6th Nov 2015 6:33pm
6th Nov 2015 6:33pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Online content

Forum Addict
jimbob  Online Content

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
The present car park opposite the Swan Hotel shows on a 1939 abstract of conveyance as having a large building on it. It was a Bents Brewery and the building covered not only the current car park but also stretched along Home Lane as far as the bend in the lane where it starts to climb up to Talbot Road.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #989975
6th Nov 2015 6:59pm
6th Nov 2015 6:59pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
Interesting, there is absolutely nothing on the OS maps, amongst the many others I checked was the 1938 and 1953 revisions.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: diggingdeeper] #989986
6th Nov 2015 7:49pm
6th Nov 2015 7:49pm

P
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
P


When kids, we used to play all around that area. It was all open. Not cultivated at all, just rough grassland. After passing Bethany - Holmlands Drive sits on top of the original Bethany now, there were no buildings at all until you came to Holm Lane with the Swan Hotel. That corner was just open land, but later a small area was given a rough surface of gravel or clinker and became a small car park for the Swan. As to whether or not Bents Brewery, owner the Swan just used it or bought it from who ever owned it I don't know. I'm talking of the late 50's early 60's here. The halcyon days of the Flat Lanes, loads of ponds, the brickworks excavations - all great places to play.

The Swan Hotel was were I imbibed in my first legal pint. Bents Bitter. NOT the best beer in the world !!

As an aside, a while ago I emailed the present Bethany Chapel in Holmlands Drive asking if they had any picture of the original building. I never had the courtesy of a reply or acknowledgement !! PEASANTS !!!!

Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #990087
7th Nov 2015 1:50pm
7th Nov 2015 1:50pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,052
Birkenhead
derekdwc Online content
Forum Veteran
derekdwc  Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,052
Birkenhead
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/TwinMaps.aspx
Can't find any building there on maps I've looked at.
Any date for brewery being there

Attached Files swan.JPG
Last edited by derekdwc; 7th Nov 2015 1:54pm.
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #990091
7th Nov 2015 2:14pm
7th Nov 2015 2:14pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Online content

Forum Addict
jimbob  Online Content

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,586
Birkenhead
After reading the pages of conveyance documents that I have. The documents reference the whole parcel of land stretching from Holme Lane down as far as the railway line. The section of land from the corner of the junction of Holme Lane and Woodchurch road back to the bend in Holme Lane is actualy outlined as belonging to Bents Brewery but no mention of it been built on. So perhaps that's why none of the os maps show any buildings on the land.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Prenton Aldi : Car parking Charge Notice [Re: Emlou19] #1051359
12th Jan 2018 10:37pm
12th Jan 2018 10:37pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,105
Birkenhead
A loophole has appeared. Parkingeye/ALDI appear to have never attained planning permission for their ANPR and signage at Aldi Prenton. It is possible to ask for your money to be refunded on the grounds that the equipment used was illegal.

Furthermore, it would be difficult to understand how they are in conformance with the data protection act if as a business they had illegally placed cameras.

Thanks to WirralLeaks.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Gay Stress
by fish5133. 18th Nov 2018 1:01pm
FOUND - Car key
by Brown_Horrocks. 18th Nov 2018 12:05pm
£2bn Extra for NHS
by diggingdeeper. 16th Nov 2018 3:27pm
Shen Yun at Empire Theatre
by granny. 16th Nov 2018 12:32pm
The Hooton Hotel
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 4:55pm
For Sale & Free
Pro Fitness Exercise Bike
by rhoobarb2002. 10th Nov 2018 2:52pm
PC Peripherals
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:54pm
Ipad Mini 4 128gb
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:47pm
Raleigh Evo 7 Speed Folding Bicycle
by Catsick. 10th Nov 2018 1:19pm
Gainward Nvidia GTX 770 - £30
by rhoobarb2002. 9th Nov 2018 3:05pm
Member Spotlight
TRANCENTRAL
TRANCENTRAL
Underground
Posts: 13,487
Joined: April 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
bazza1983, joel9, Gibbo2191, Quensh, marcjday
12792 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
eggandchips (65)
New Wirral Info
Shen Yun at Empire Theatre
by granny. 16th Nov 2018 12:32pm
The Hooton Hotel
by venice. 13th Nov 2018 4:55pm
Wirral Quilters Exhibition
by Greenwood. 12th Nov 2018 12:10pm
Pension or Lump Sum
by fish5133. 9th Nov 2018 11:24pm
Stop a second referndum.
by granny. 1st Nov 2018 10:45pm
News : New Topics
FOUND - Car key
by Brown_Horrocks. 18th Nov 2018 12:05pm
£2bn Extra for NHS
by diggingdeeper. 16th Nov 2018 3:27pm
Taxi Drivers and Drugs
by diggingdeeper. 6th Nov 2018 4:25pm
Birkenhead tip on fire
by assassin. 6th Nov 2018 12:11am
New Enthusiast Forums
Gay Stress
by fish5133. 18th Nov 2018 1:01pm
WWI's Secret Shame:
by granny. 13th Nov 2018 9:35am
320d won't pass emission test
by DavidB. 13th Nov 2018 1:59am
Dynasties
by cools. 12th Nov 2018 11:38am
Waterfront
by cools. 10th Nov 2018 10:50am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sun 7:44am
Sunset Sun 4:10pm
Local Time Sun 3:17pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1