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#912182 - 25th Nov 2014 1:00pm Fracking
Sir_longmong Offline
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Registered: 21st Mar 2008
Posts: 1059
Loc: in the zone
Just wondering people's views on this? Local council says no then gets overruled from elsewhere. Won't be long until they try and put it here I reckon.

Search "Borras and Holt community protection camp" on Facebook for full story and updates.

Seems to be a media blackout on this and it's something we all should care about.


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#912188 - 25th Nov 2014 1:27pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3270
Loc: Heswallish
The Welsh will get it anyway just like when we(UK govt?) flooded their valleys, villages, churches and cemeteries

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#912190 - 25th Nov 2014 1:49pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1833
Loc: Oxton
For me, it would be nice to get some balanced facts about the issue, as I'm not for or against it.

On the one hand you have the companies, who are duty bound to put a positive spin on things.

But the protestors use all kinds of lies and scaremongering to get their point across. There's been a bit of debate on a local Facebook community page about plans to frack in Ellesmere Port.

One protestor claimed that there would be 500 wells on Wirral, and referred to old articles based on fracking in the US, which is a completely different operation on different geography operating under different regulations to the UK.

One of them even produced a poster claiming that fracking was the destruction of the British countryside. Yet the picture they'd used was of a big patch of Japanese knotweed, which is doing enough damage of its own!

The protesters all seem to be comprised of NIMBYs with no technical or professional qualifications on the subject, and do not cite any UK based facts or problems, just "concerns" and "speculation".

Take this for example:

Quote:
Protestor Liz Fletcher added: “This technology is not safe and one in five wells fails, they pump a cocktail of toxic chemicals underground which will pollute water courses.”


When in fact frack fluid is 99% water, with only a small amount of additive, most or all of which is not toxic. So this is just pure lies, and because its her opinion, its posted by the media and the public believe it as fact because she's not corrected. And where she's got the figure of one in five wells failing isn't checked either, but I bet you remember it.

And you can't rely on mainstream media because their goal is just to sell papers.

I've found this source to be reasonably unbiased in their reporting:

http://frackland.blogspot.co.uk/

As for the camp in question, I can't comment. Do they own or have permission on the land they have their camp?

It did make the mainstream media though (Wales Daily Post):

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/watch-wrexham-campaigners-insist-stay-7968184

But I can relate from a friend who lived near the Barton Moss protest site. Since the protesters arrived there, locals had been subject to verbal abuse, trespass, drunkenness, vandalism, increase in litter and waste (human and dog) and theft of wooden fences which were allegedly used for the protesters heating!

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#912194 - 25th Nov 2014 2:40pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
davew3 Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 16th Jun 2009
Posts: 1024
Loc: Wirral
Can't wait to see the start of fracking in England, I'am fed up of being held to ransom by a minority of loud mouthed Greens and Labour supportors who prefer to see the public live in the 1600's while they use Zill lanes to get around, when these people stop using vehicles to get from one fracking site to another and stop using gas bottles for heating and cooking on these fracking sites, then maybe they could tell the rest of the country how to use energy, a better idea is get rid of the windmills out at sea, I wonder how much damage has been done to the sea bed, with those 'Green' windmills and public taxes thrown at them, we have the EU already destroying the country with their 'idea's' time the real public had it's say not the big gobs.

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#912195 - 25th Nov 2014 3:06pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
derekdwc Offline


Forum Veteran

Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 5024
Loc: Birkenhead
Always sceptical when big for profitmaking(especially foreign owned) jump in and the gov bend over for a short-term dollar.
Wonder if and when fracking starts will our bills go down (who pays for developing these sites - us in the long run)and whether the companies involved could export the extract to other countries
for more profit.
I'd say leave it alone for when future British generations may have a dire need for it.


Edited by derekdwc (25th Nov 2014 3:12pm)

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#912200 - 25th Nov 2014 4:28pm Re: Fracking [Re: derekdwc]
casper Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1422
Loc: wallasey
With you derek, there seems to be indecent haste to get going,and as you say who is really going to benefit? I can say without fear or favour it wont be the vast majority of us, those in the know will have staked their claim, shares, partnerships etc etc and of course no compensation for home owners,so hypothetical question, what happens if your property subsides or collapses? or if the watershed is polluted? it really does feel like the goldrush, only by the French Germans or Russians will we be be sold out again? Royal mail has gone down the nick letters are getting delivered to the wrong addresses three to four times a week the prices are rising and now they are trying to weasel out of the deal to deliver to the whole of the UK with more price rises on the horizon the society of averice and the quick buck, a continuing legacy of Thatcherism.

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#912204 - 25th Nov 2014 4:48pm Re: Fracking [Re: casper]
davew3 Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 16th Jun 2009
Posts: 1024
Loc: Wirral
Wondered how long 'Thatcher" name would be invoked, 13 years of Labour to repair the damage, high taxes, high fuel premiums, house prices, taxes on private pensions, taxes on company cars, the EU were forcing Labour to sell off the Post Office and all that Mandelson did was to destroy it's name, I can remember when they were moaning about letters being throwm over hedges, Labour were so helpful with all those taxes, remember when they were going to take pictures of all the backs of the house and anyone with something taxable was going to get taxed, how about Universtity charges, they pulled the ladders up on lots of kids who might have got a decent bursery, the 13 year legacy of Labour the damage and hate they have done to this country is Labours legacy, Thatcher was wrong on lots of things and we ended up with Major then Blair, god help this country if we keep carrying on going round in circles and voting for the other Oxbridge crowd because their mum and dads voted for them.

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#912205 - 25th Nov 2014 5:11pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3270
Loc: Heswallish
The Angling Trust who have dealings with the Environment Agency have issued a statement saying the safeguards are not fit for purpose and along with the RSPB are concerned about damage to our watercourses and wetlands.
I think its the unknowns that are concerning people

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#912221 - 25th Nov 2014 7:39pm Re: Fracking [Re: davew3]
casper Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1422
Loc: wallasey
Have you been reading the Beano again davew3, high house prices er let me think wasnt that the Tories, high unemployment, encouraging people to go on the disability list to massage the unemployment figures,selling off industry and the utilities, deregulation what did MT say you will be able catch a bus at the bottom of the garden, privatisation, rocketing energy prices,wanting to ditch the minimum wage stating it would ruin industry,the only people who hate are the Tories, vindictive public schoolboys who have turned the North into a virtual getto, by the way Iam no fan of the "new Labour Party" why dont you vote for herr Nigel sounds like your cup of tea, at least people had the wage to pay the taxes you spout about, all they can look forward to now is foodbanks what an ahievement for the sixth richest country in the world.

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#912231 - 25th Nov 2014 8:47pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15007
Loc: Wirral
New thing coming to light all the time., and yes I know it's in the States but same chemicals will no doubt be used.

30th October 2014.......

Oil and gas wells across the country are spewing “dangerous" cancer-causing chemicals into the air, according to a new study that further corroborates reports of health problems around hydraulic fracturing sites

This is a significant public health risk,” says Dr. David Carpenter, director of the Institute for Health and the Environment at the University at Albany-State University of New York and lead author of the study, which was published Thursday in the journal Environmental Health. “Cancer has a long latency, so you’re not seeing an elevation in cancer in these communities. But five, 10, 15 years from now, elevation in cancer is almost certain to happen.


http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014...ites-study-says
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#912239 - 25th Nov 2014 9:17pm Re: Fracking [Re: casper]
davew3 Offline
Forum Guide

Registered: 16th Jun 2009
Posts: 1024
Loc: Wirral
You have your opinions, I have my opinions on what has happened to this country with Labour in charge, I wouldn't vote Labour ever again, the only time I will end up voting Labour, is when I die and my name is used on a postal vote, thought the Beano closed down years ago.

I'am more interested as to what's going on in the Irish sea where all these windmills are than in deep drilling through the deep coal measures that will have already brought nasties up in the water from the many abandoned mines in the Nth West area.

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#912243 - 25th Nov 2014 9:35pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
mrhanky Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 1st Dec 2010
Posts: 1236
Loc: my house
i thought everyone was more concerned about ebola?

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#912247 - 25th Nov 2014 10:26pm Re: Fracking [Re: Sir_longmong]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15007
Loc: Wirral
What makes you tick, Hanky ?
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#912269 - 26th Nov 2014 9:03am Re: Fracking [Re: fish5133]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1833
Loc: Oxton
Originally Posted By: fish5133
The Angling Trust who have dealings with the Environment Agency have issued a statement saying the safeguards are not fit for purpose and along with the RSPB are concerned about damage to our watercourses and wetlands.
I think its the unknowns that are concerning people


I lost all faith and trust in the Angling Trust when the people the represent started putting barbed wire in rivers to deter wild swimmers and kayakers.

In Yorkshire they've cut hosepipes into 1" pieces and pushed nails in them and thrown them on the floor where wild swimmers are going into a lake.

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#912291 - 26th Nov 2014 10:26am Re: Fracking [Re: casper]
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 27th Dec 2010
Posts: 1833
Loc: Oxton
Originally Posted By: casper
Have you been reading the Beano again davew3, high house prices er let me think wasnt that the Tories


House prices shot up exponentially after 1997, when Labour were in power. See the chart on this page:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortg...ice-growth.html

As for foodbanks, more stats here showing they shot up under Labour's time in office too.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/food-banks-is-cameron-on-the-money/12486

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