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#673742 - 7th Mar 2012 12:36pm Solar Panels
Mike72 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 14th Oct 2011
Posts: 156
Loc: Mike72
Hi,
Has anybody else noticed lately that a lot of house around trinity rd/wallasey seem to be getting solar panels fitted? Is there a grant or scheme on at the moment that helps you get them for free?? Help or advice please.

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#673751 - 7th Mar 2012 1:23pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: Mike72]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 442
Loc: Upton
Generally you either get the panels for free, have them installed and maintained for free but the company that pays for them gets the money from any surplus feeding into the grid. Or you pay for them yourself*, pay for installation and maintainance but you then get the money from the surplus feed-in.

Surplus is the important word. If you work mon-fri, 9-5 you are likely to only have the fridge/freezer on during the day - it's these people that make the installing companies money. A more frugal minded person would invest in a slow cooker, get a washing machine with timer function and set the immersion heater to make the most of the free electricity coming from the solar panels wink (due to the fire risk it is not recommended to charge phones, laptops etc tumble dry clothing unsupervisied)

The Energy Saving Trust has more info, as might your current electricity supplier.

*Just 2 years ago solar panels were so expensive that it took approx 25 years before small scale installations would start making a profit from the initial install costs. Now they're cheap enough that low income farmers in India can afford them.

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#673785 - 7th Mar 2012 3:09pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: Mike72]
Lightning Offline
Forum Master

Registered: 24th Jan 2012
Posts: 2397
Loc: different one and love it
Thanks for this information little pob i will look into this as well.
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#673796 - 7th Mar 2012 3:31pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: Mike72]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
I'd sit tight untill the Tariffs are confimred

I had a number of Solar PV schemes in the pipeline for a client based in london, the tariff was basically halfed for the ppkw to the point where there is little benifit in selling back to the grid therefore increasing the pay back periods.

India is a different kettle of fish

We are running a number of schemes for Tata all involving solar photo voltaics helps that they get more than 1 hour of sun per year though smile

In terms of the UK market i recieved the following only last month,

Dear Les
As you are aware, last week the Government lost its appeal against the Court ruling in December that its proposals to change the FiT tariff rates for solar PV were unlawful. However, the Government is now seeking leave to appeal to the higher level the Supreme Court. They have 28 days from the judgment on 25 January 2012 to apply. It is not known whether the Government will be granted leave to appeal nor how long it will take for them to find out.
This means that the Government cannot legislate to apply new tariffs from 1 April 2012 to installations that took place between 12 December 2011 and before 2 March 2012. The Government did however lay legislation to reduce the tariff for new installations in Parliament on 19 January 2012. It will come into effect on 3 March 2012 and will apply to all installations with an eligibility date on or after this date. What this means is that any installation that takes place between 3 and 31 March will receive 43.3p/kWh in respect of generation until 31 March 2012 and 21p in respect of generation after 1 April 2012.
Until the outcome of the appeal is known, the Government cannot provide any certainty to consumers with installations that take place between 12 December 2011 and 2 March 2012. However, the Government has confirmed that these consumers will not receive a tariff lower than 21p (plus RPI index link) for 25 years.
I appreciate that this a difficult and uncertain time for all solar PV installers. Nonetheless, it is essential at this time that you only sell solar PV on the basis that, for an installation that takes place between 12 December 2011 and 2 March 2012, a consumer will get 43.3p/kWh for generation that takes place before 31 March 2012 and 21p for generation that takes place thereafter. It might be that a consumer who installs between these dates will end up getting 43.3p/kWh for the whole 25 years but this is far from certain at the moment and this expectation must not be the basis for any Sale.
Please be aware that informing consumers they will definitely receive 43.3p for 25 years is mis-selling and it is a breach of the REAL Consumer Code. You must not agree a contract with a consumer on this basis. Please note that it is not acceptable to have a small print notice qualifying a misleading or incorrect claim. Should one of your consumers rely on receiving 43.3p/kWh for 25 years, but in the end does not, your company could end up refunding them the difference.
I have received a number of examples of misleading advertising. The Non-Compliance Panel has asked to receive a report at the end of March of any company putting out misleading advertising or otherwise seeking to exploit this time of uncertainty by pressurising consumers into signing contracts. I am currently compiling this report and will pass it to the Panel with details of the companies concerned.

In laymans the goverment have pi**ed on the bonfire frown
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#673798 - 7th Mar 2012 3:32pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: little_pob]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: little_pob
Generally you either get the panels for free, have them installed and maintained for free but the company that pays for them gets the money from any surplus feeding into the grid. Or you pay for them yourself*, pay for installation and maintainance but you then get the money from the surplus feed-in.

Surplus is the important word. If you work mon-fri, 9-5 you are likely to only have the fridge/freezer on during the day - it's these people that make the installing companies money. A more frugal minded person would invest in a slow cooker, get a washing machine with timer function and set the immersion heater to make the most of the free electricity coming from the solar panels wink (due to the fire risk it is not recommended to charge phones, laptops etc tumble dry clothing unsupervisied)

The Energy Saving Trust has more info, as might your current electricity supplier.

*Just 2 years ago solar panels were so expensive that it took approx 25 years before small scale installations would start making a profit from the initial install costs. Now they're cheap enough that low income farmers in India can afford them.


Pob, you work on Enviromental projects, if so, who you with mate?
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#673811 - 7th Mar 2012 3:50pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: Nelzy84]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 442
Loc: Upton
No, but just bought a house with a south facing roof so I've been looking into it very recently wink

The referance to historical panel price and India is from recalling a couple of articles in New Scientist.

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#673821 - 7th Mar 2012 4:09pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: Mike72]
Nelzy84 Offline
Forum Guardian

Registered: 21st Dec 2010
Posts: 3354
Loc: Wirral
Seem knowledgeable to me Pob, too often you get white van men spouting the odds that they are the way forward and they'll come and sort it out cheap, usually voiding your roof insurance by crudley mopunting the panels onto your roof tiles and getting all the tariff kick back benifits themselves.

Good to see that there is non guliible knowledgeable peeps about.

If you ever need any free advise just shout mate, in contact with a number of contractors such as ecoenvironments, Stiebel Eltron etc, all of which would offer sound advice, my colleague in work is ex NHS and did a number of installs for them before the tariffs were slashed so he's also well up on them
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#673942 - 8th Mar 2012 5:01am Re: Solar Panels [Re: Nelzy84]
MattLFC Offline
Wiki Master

Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 22315
Loc: Moreton/Beirut/Mobile
Originally Posted By: Nelzy84
In laymans the goverment have pi**ed on the bonfire frown

So they should have done, the original FiT was ridiculously excessive. Another dream scheme rolled out by the previous Labour government who seemed to think money was unlimited... 43.3p was overpriced to the point of scandalous, 21p is still far too high imho.

It also increases the cost of everyone else's electricity. I know I have solar-power (post 2010 new-build so it was a legal requirement), but I don't agree with the government effectively paying for people to have luxuries in life; I'm getting sick of this nanny-state attitude, and the fact the government/taxpayer always seems to end up with a raw deal with just about any scheme or contract they launch. It's even worse atm, given the fact the country is closing off public services, hospitals, schools, laying off teachers and nurses etc, to be even considering effectively paying people to have solar power.

Well done to the Coalition on this one.

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#801518 - 19th Jun 2013 8:20am Re: Solar Panels [Re: Mike72]
Fabion001 Offline
Beginner

Registered: 19th Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
Hello Guys i have a solar panel system in my home installed some days ago ........Its working is so good and it produced eectricity free of cost .
I will send its demo to all of you .Hope it helps you .

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#802308 - 22nd Jun 2013 11:31am Re: Solar Panels [Re: ]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 442
Loc: Upton
Originally Posted By: 19FRANK40
Originally Posted By: little_pob
Generally you either get the panels for free, have them installed and maintained for free but the company that pays for them gets the money from any surplus feeding into the grid. Or you pay for them yourself*, pay for installation and maintainance but you then get the money from the surplus feed-in.



Nothing to do with surplus feed in as there is none. The panels are so low in terms of efficiency, just like wind-farms, high installation, maintenance and replacement costs with very little sun or wind to generate any power at all.
The money paid out is a sop to installers so that we can look good in the eyes of the corrupt, undemocratic and unwanted EU.
No surplus?! There are households on the original tariff who earn over 1k a year from the power they feed in. With all power generation, inefficient is not the same as inefficacious.

As for wind, the UK accounts 40% of Europe's total wind power potential.

I will concede that unfortunately, the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine, so currently we still need on demand power generation (fossil or nuclear).

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#802776 - 24th Jun 2013 2:49pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: ]
little_pob Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 30th May 2008
Posts: 442
Loc: Upton
Originally Posted By: 19FRANK40
Did you not read my post??? The savings are not energy savings but a grant passed on to those who install the panels. It was done by the Lib/Dem part of the coalition to make it seem that they saved money. they are so inefficient that you wouldn'rt believe it. You need about 20 acres of alnd full of panels facing south before you can begin to make a profit.
there is glycol in the panels so that they won't freeze up in winter and the het given to that by what little sun we have is transferred to water vis heating colis. Each heat transfer process is approximately 30% EFFICIENT WHEN WORKING AT MAXIMUM, which it never does. What has been heated has to be stored with the heat losses that that entails. Given both the installation costs, maintenance AND REPLACEMENT costs, what is left is diddly-squat. Pure kiddology to make the corrupt, unelected and unwanted EU feel better about what used to be called 'global warming' until they discovere dthat there wasn't any, so now they call it 'climate change'. What next?

For wind, your figure of 40% is a figment of your fertile imagination. More like 2% - another total waste of time. the only worthwhile propsal that I have seen was in the Orkney Islands where they are testing wave power devices. The tide comes in twice a day and goes out twice a day, 4 lots of sea movement and hence wave power. This could be a winner and you do not have anything to spoil the view,it is all underwater.

You seem to be confusing photovoltaic electricity generation with solar water heating? As far as I know, solar water heating doesn't generate electricity.

Yes, PV panels and wind turbines have a finite life span: I believe upto 25 years for PV panels (though 10-18 is supposed to be more realistic), and 20-25 years for the current generation of wind turbines.

With regards to grants, at no point have I said that the tariffs aren't topped up by the tax payer. But what you are saying with regards to surplus power, or lack thereof, just doesn't make sence. If there was no over-generation, there'd be nothing to feed in. And if you don't put power into the grid, you don't get paid.

I don't know where you get 2% from? In 2012, 5.3% of the UKs power generation came from wind alone: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy..._renewables.pdf

For what it's worth, the 40% of Europe's potential wind power isn't my figure, but the one oft quoted by proponents of wind power technology. This is where I'd picked it up from. However, it looks like the figure may be 21% at best: http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/lucky-uk-has-a-massive-40-of-big-wind/

As for climate change. The term was switched because some areas will potentially cool should ocean currents weaken, change course or stop. For example, due to it's latitude, if it were not for the Gulf Stream, the UK would probably have a climate closer to that of Sweden and Nova Scotia, Canada.

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#803037 - 25th Jun 2013 12:47pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: ]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Originally Posted By: 19FRANK40


It is you that is confused, solar panels generate heat for hot water domestically, but for electricity in solar panel farms, ie acres of land fullof panels facing south.



Solar PV panels are available, as well as water heating panels. These days, on domestic roofs, far more PV panels are installed than water heating ones.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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#803278 - 26th Jun 2013 3:20pm Re: Solar Panels [Re: ]
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 4868
Loc: shropshire
Well, Frank, you're either confused or being deliberately obtuse. Your statement "solar panels generate heat for hot water domestically, but for electricity in solar panel farms" is simply incorrect. It's clear that you're against both wind and solar sources of energy; let's just leave it at that.
_________________________
Carpe diem.

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