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#595646 6th Oct 2011 4:38pm
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That's the only details I have for you at the moment. It's not looking good so try to avoid the area if you can frown


Sometimes Police Officers give more than just speeding tickets!

It�s hard to be fit as a fiddle when you�re shaped like a cello!
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Its bad that road for speeding, And i Suppose the weather dont help. Hope all are ok.

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A lad I went to school with crashed down there years ago. He only had one hand and had a knob on the steering wheel to steer with.

He lost control and it was pretty bad by all accounts.

The only amusing thing was that they spend 30 mins looking for his hand, the fire service thought he'd lost it in the accident.

He's OK now though which is why it's OK to have a chukle.

I hope everyone involved in this one is as fortunate.

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It's the middle section, in the national speed limit area if that helps anyone.


Sometimes Police Officers give more than just speeding tickets!

It�s hard to be fit as a fiddle when you�re shaped like a cello!
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Is it still NSL? Wasn't aware there was any NSL's left on the Wirral. I think it's a 50 now and if you are doing anything near that speed then it's very hard to crash, wet or not.


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Seem to remember some new speed limit signs there.

Strange things happen on that road.

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A TEENAGE boy was killed in a rush hour car crash which left six people in hospital.

The crash happened on Telegraph Road, Thurstaston, just after 4pm when a beige Micra collided with a black Ford Fiesta.

The sixteen-year-old was taken to hospital but died a short time later.

A further six occupants, from both cars, were taken to Arrowe Park Hospital where three of them remain critical.

The road remained closed more than three hours later as accident investigators gathered evidence.

Severe tailbacks were reported stretching from the Cottage Loaf pub in Heswall to West Kirby, near to Caldy Golf Club.

Police, fire and paramedics remained at the scene.

Anyone who witnessed the accident or has information is asked to call the roads policing unit on 0151 777 5444

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...car-crash-100252-29553739/#ixzz1a1wdSXXc

Last edited by Softy_Southerner; 6th Oct 2011 8:09pm.
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I am so sorry to read this.

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Very sad. Such a waste

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The NSL starts as you leave the roundabout heading towards Heswall.

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Very, very sad.

Being the sort of person I am, I'll bet either the black fiesta was full of young lads or the beige micra was driven by an old person.

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Very said.

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Was this the section where the 60 goes to the new roundabout?


Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
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Sorry 40 now I think it is smirk


Uncertainty or not knowing causes depression, Im happy because I know I'm going to die one day!
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really feel bad for all those familys involved in this, i use that part of the wirral alot:((

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More than one has died.

Calday pupils.

I'll let you know more as I am given it.

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.

Last edited by Mark; 7th Oct 2011 1:56pm.
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Originally Posted by AlexB
More than one has died.

Calday pupils.

I'll let you know more as I am given it.

I know you don't need telling, but please don't mention names or any identifying details. Not all family etc may have been notified as yet.


Sometimes Police Officers give more than just speeding tickets!

It�s hard to be fit as a fiddle when you�re shaped like a cello!
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I'm being given the info by my bro who has a mate who works at the school. Apologies if it's not 100% accurate.

Regardless, it sounds horrendous and my best wishes go out to all those involved.

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Originally Posted by Wench

I know you don't need telling, but please don't mention names or any identifying details. Not all family etc may have been notified as yet.


Of course not.

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Coming from Heswall to Thurstaston, there is only one national speed limit sign and this is often obscured.There should, by law, be two signs to indicate speed change from,in this case, a 30mph zone into a national speed limit.I use this road often and find older people driving at 30mph (probably because they must have missed the speed change sign) and this in itself causing other people to overtake to the correct speed.Really, reducing the speed isn`t going to help.Speed limits are always a maximum anyway. Proposed new laws reducing number of teenage passengers in a teenage drivers car sounds a really good idea as does the 7pm curfew.Sadly too late in this case and if it was this that "caused" it.

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This happened by the roadworks though, so we can't speculate on what happened just yet.

Also, I'm convinced 'the lanes' are not NSL anymore.

I got it wrong originally and it's a 16 year old who has died. A really nice lad too, it's never the scrotes.

The driver of the car in which the passenger died and 2 other people are still critical.

A sad day.

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Originally Posted by AlexB
This happened by the roadworks though, so we can't speculate on what happened just yet.

Also, I'm convinced 'the lanes' are not NSL anymore.

I got it wrong originally and it's a 16 year old who has died. A really nice lad too, it's never the scrotes.

The driver of the car in which the passenger died and 2 other people are still critical.

A sad day.


Nowhere near the road works (40mph BTW).
Definately on the 3 s`s on a NSL road.NSL starts just past the roundabout towards Heswall (2 signs this end but only one sign form Hewsall to Thurstaston) Saw the area where the crash was when passing this morning.

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Just goes to show that even hearing directly from my bro who was texting someone who was there that things can be wrong.

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Originally Posted by AlexB
Just goes to show that even hearing directly from my bro who was texting someone who was there that things can be wrong.


Predicitive text no doubt.....

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If it was the same black ford fiesta that was driving around west kirby yesterday im not surprised car full of lads driving like an idiot......

sympathy to those concerned no one deserves that .......but if mummy and daddy buy these kids a two litre ford fiesta st when they obviuosly havent enough experience

sorry if this sounds insensative but i think that like motorbikes you should be restricted to smaller engine cars when you first pass.

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Nothing to do with the size of the engine, the Renault 5 Gt is a 1.4, strap a turbo on and it becomes a rocket.


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Originally Posted by Lord_of_the_M53
If it was the same black ford fiesta that was driving around west kirby yesterday im not surprised car full of lads driving like an idiot......

sympathy to those concerned no one deserves that .......but if mummy and daddy buy these kids a two litre ford fiesta st when they obviuosly havent enough experience

sorry if this sounds insensative but i think that like motorbikes you should be restricted to smaller engine cars when you first pass.


Yup... it sounds insensitive, though some is perhaps appropriate for a separate thread on traffic concerns in general... I stumbled across this thread/forum and having two boys at Calday am privy to more information than is here... a boy of 17 lost his life and there are 6 other people who are injured... 2 remain in ITU... I am amazed and disappointed at the "speculation" and misinformation that has been written by some...


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Originally Posted by EsoxLucius
I am amazed and disappointed at the "speculation" and misinformation that has been written by some...


We do have this discussion every time a 'sensitive' subject comes up. I imagine you're referring to me with the misinformation for which I apologise. I'm the first to shout rumour or 'back it up' at times like this.

Also happens to be quite a sensitive subject personally when we talk about young lads driving round like idiots. I have lost a couple of friends and people I went to school with in car accidents (all Calday boys as well), one was the driver being a plonker and one was a genuine accident.

All young lads pass their test and think they are invincible, it's a fact of life, they think because they've done a few hours of lessons and shown they can reverse around a corner that their driving experience is top notch.

The thing is that you continue 'learning' to drive up until the day you hang up your license.

I did hear on the news this morning that the black Fiesta involved lost both it's doors on 'one side of the car' so that would suggest it wasn't an ST. Again, its not unheard of for the news to get things wrong!

However, Lord_of_the_M53, I would suggest that you contact the police regarding what you saw because if this lad was driving like a loon then they will need as much evidence as possible to back up their case. If it's proved that he was being stupid and that it directly lead to this accident then I'm afraid that if he pulls through he's going to be in some serious trouble.

Obviously my best wishes are with all the victims and their family and friends as I know exactly what they will be going through at this point.

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Originally Posted by EsoxLucius


Yup... it sounds insensitive, though some is perhaps appropriate for a separate thread on traffic concerns in general... I stumbled across this thread/forum and having two boys at Calday am privy to more information than is here... a boy of 17 lost his life and there are 6 other people who are injured... 2 remain in ITU... I am amazed and disappointed at the "speculation" and misinformation that has been written by some...



Just making an observation thats all like i said no one deserves this to happen to them.
having lost a friend of mine when i was 17 for a very similar incident.
oh and welcome to wiki by the way


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Originally Posted by AlexB


However, Lord_of_the_M53, I would suggest that you contact the police regarding what you saw because if this lad was driving like a loon then they will need as much evidence as possible to back up their case. If it's proved that he was being stupid and that it directly lead to this accident then I'm afraid that if he pulls through he's going to be in some serious trouble.


And what if it was another black fiesta with a lot of lads in...? I suspect that many lives will have been ruined by yesterday's tragic event and no amount of law enforcement etc deserved or otherwise will turn the clock back... Having two teenage boys... well there but for the grace of God etc!

There is a photo of the cars at the scene on the Daily Post website... and the fact it has "lost" its doors and the roof panels off both cars might suggest that the fire service may well have had a hand in the "lost" doors.

The quality of reporting sometimes... leads to varied interpretation!

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Cheers LOTM53...

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Then the police will disregard the info. It'll be a thorough investigation and not a case of 'some bloke said they saw a black Fiesta 4-up in West Kirby driving like a knob so he must be guilty.

But they'll have witness statements from lots of people on the scene and they'll piece it all together. As an example I know of someone who had a crash and seriously injured a motorcyclist.

3 cars back was a bloke who had been overtaken by him earlier in the journey who was able to describe in detail just how he'd been driving prior to the accident. They're able to get a good impression of what has happened that way and before anyone jumps on me I'm in no way suggesting the driver was being a knob behind the wheel.

Originally Posted by Daily Post
The Fiesta had also lost both doors on the driver’s side.


Wasn't a Fiesta ST then.

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I'd also like to add that although I didn't know him personally, we have mutual friends and I can see how it's affecting everyone so let's not lose sight of the fact a young boy has lost his life.

RIP Jonny Brown.

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Originally Posted by EsoxLucius
Originally Posted by AlexB


However, Lord_of_the_M53, I would suggest that you contact the police regarding what you saw because if this lad was driving like a loon then they will need as much evidence as possible to back up their case. If it's proved that he was being stupid and that it directly lead to this accident then I'm afraid that if he pulls through he's going to be in some serious trouble.


And what if it was another black fiesta with a lot of lads in...? I suspect that many lives will have been ruined by yesterday's tragic event and no amount of law enforcement etc deserved or otherwise will turn the clock back... Having two teenage boys... well there but for the grace of God etc!

There is a photo of the cars at the scene on the Daily Post website... and the fact it has "lost" its doors and the roof panels off both cars might suggest that the fire service may well have had a hand in the "lost" doors.

The quality of reporting sometimes... leads to varied interpretation!



If your sons had died in that crash you would want the police to do everything they can to find out what happen. I know I would, do you have something to tell us abou the black car to me it seems you don't like the fact someone has said go the police with what they had seen. M53 go the police like Alex has said...

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Originally Posted by AlexB

Originally Posted by Daily Post
The Fiesta had also lost both doors on the driver’s side.


Wasn't a Fiesta ST then.


Looking at picture on the Daily Posts website It's a 3 door

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Originally Posted by polo_phil

Looking at picture on the Daily Posts website It's a 3 door


I may be being stupid but I can't see a picture of the car on the website, I just see a picture of a police car and a police van.

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Thanks.

It's a 3 door but it's still not an ST.

Wrong wheels and the door strips aren't colour coded.

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Phoned and reported


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Originally Posted by Lord_of_the_M53
Phoned and reported


Well done.

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Originally Posted by Lord_of_the_M53
Phoned and reported


Great stuff mate thumbsup it may be nothing but best to report it wink

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i honestly hope its not related and it was a genuine accident and no one is to blame


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Sounds like an accident just waiting to happen :

Ford Fiesta with four youths in it & being driven by a 17 year old vs. Nissan Micra with two women aged 83 and 84 (one of whom was driving) on a well known accident black spot.

So sad for all concerned.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy666
Ford Fiesta with four youths in it & being driven by a 17 year old.


3x 17 year olds and a 12 year old.

I'm told the 12 year old was his brother, Harry.

I hope to God this doesn't turn out any worse for the family.




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Originally Posted by Frog_Eyes
Originally Posted by EsoxLucius
Originally Posted by AlexB


However, Lord_of_the_M53, I would suggest that you contact the police regarding what you saw because if this lad was driving like a loon then they will need as much evidence as possible to back up their case. If it's proved that he was being stupid and that it directly lead to this accident then I'm afraid that if he pulls through he's going to be in some serious trouble.


And what if it was another black fiesta with a lot of lads in...? I suspect that many lives will have been ruined by yesterday's tragic event and no amount of law enforcement etc deserved or otherwise will turn the clock back... Having two teenage boys... well there but for the grace of God etc!

There is a photo of the cars at the scene on the Daily Post website... and the fact it has "lost" its doors and the roof panels off both cars might suggest that the fire service may well have had a hand in the "lost" doors.

The quality of reporting sometimes... leads to varied interpretation!



If your sons had died in that crash you would want the police to do everything they can to find out what happen. I know I would, do you have something to tell us abou the black car to me it seems you don't like the fact someone has said go the police with what they had seen. M53 go the police like Alex has said...


Frog Eyes... I couldn't agree more... and if LOTM53 can confirm the ID of the vehicle... that's great... more pieces to the jigsaw and all that...

No what I dislike is a lack of sensitivity and disregard for all involved...

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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by Ozzy666
Ford Fiesta with four youths in it & being driven by a 17 year old.


3x 17 year olds and a 12 year old.

I'm told the 12 year old was his brother, Harry.

I hope to God this doesn't turn out any worse for the family.





I couldn't agree more with you... my thoughts are with all those involved in this tragic accident...

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One of the old ladies has died this morning.


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Involuntary manslaughter.

Rip


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terrible news

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Oh shit.

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Me and one of my good friends is related to this incident and to those that have passed and those who are in hospital so can we please keep this topic as gentle as we can. Thank you!


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Nikki, I think the problem is with topics like this is that when we are detached from it we chat about it as though it's a semi-private conversation down the pub, and forget that minutes, days or even years later someone will read this who was close to it and no matter how "lightly" a comment was made will feel offended by it.

I think that will always be the problem with local news on a local site, but I can't see how it will ever change.

This accident has both ends of the spectrum, the end of full lived and the end of one just beginning, I'm sure our thoughts are with all of the families involved.

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It's also the morbid curiosity, natural human instincts.

I've been on both sides.

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Originally Posted by john1
One of the old ladies has died this morning.


http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/9293474.One_dead_and_six_injured_in_car_crash_tragedy/ this is the problem with internet forums... misinformation! Doesn't do anyone any favours...

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UPDATE:
Merseyside Police can confirm an investigation is underway into a road traffic collision in Heswall that occurred yesterday afternoon (Thursday, 6 October) after which a 17-year-old boy (not 16, as previously stated) died. Emergency services were called just before 4pm to Telegraph Road to a report that two vehicles, a black Ford Fiesta and a beige Nissan Micra, had
been in collision.

A 17-year-old, who was a passenger in the Fiesta, was taken to hospital by ambulance where he later died.

A further four people in the vehicle, three aged 17 and one aged 12, were also taken to hospital. Two of the 17-year-olds are being treated for serious
internal injuries the other 17-year-old is being treated for facial injuries. The 12-year-old is being treated for injuries to his right leg and left arm.

The two women from the Nissan Micra, aged 82 and 84, were taken to hospital and remain in a critical condition.

Police, Fire Service and Paramedics attended the scene and the road was closed in both directions for a short period of time.

An investigation into the incident is ongoing.

Anyone who may have witnessed the incident is asked to call Merseyside Police on 0151 777 5444.

Source

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Someone at work said that the Corsa crossed the double white line, may not be true!

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Fiesta and micra involved,no mention of corsa!


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Oh sorry PP,it must have been a Fiesta!

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[quote=AlexB]Is it still NSL? Wasn't aware there was any NSL's left on the Wirral. I think it's a 50 now and if you are doing anything near that speed then it's very hard to crash, wet or not.

No its still national, i drive it a lot with my students, and i try to drum in to them that a speed limit is a maximum, not a target, just cos its 60 doesn't mean its safe to do that speed, an what speed you do do on that road can alter depending on the weather and conditions. Just cos they drive down it on a clear dry sunny day at 55 doesn't mean they can drive that speed down it on a dull dark raining day, you choose your speed based on the conditions, (light weather, road surface, trafic volume etc) even at slow speeds it not hard to crash, even if the other car was in the wrong, you can still avoid most incidents by tailoring your own driving. I believe one died the other 3 are critical.

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Originally Posted by phk68bay
No its still national, i drive it a lot with my students, and i try to drum in to them that a speed limit is a maximum, not a target, just cos its 60 doesn't mean its safe to do that speed


Well thats bullshit as i failed my 1st test due to low confidence (low confidence my ass as i`ve been driving since i was 15) and i was doing the speed limit.

I was driving as you should and i got failed due to low confidence!!!! confused
So, i went with chris kelly and they said there was nothing wrong with my driving and to put my foot down on my test and wallah! i passed!

All my ass, it`s all about the money!!!

I`m an idiot on the road but i bet i`m a better driver than most of you test instructers wink


Peace out! laugh

Mind you, you do drive around in go-carts no


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i failed for speeding on a bend.

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Originally Posted by beer_money
i failed for speeding on a bend.


Have a beer smile


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no ta lol

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Bend off then!


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This forum is supposed to reflect the views of people who have a sympathetic side to them,and not how you pass your driving test.

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Just a thought Ste,how can you be an idiot on the road yet still a better driver than a qualified, experienced,trained driving instructor? What is your perception of a "Good" driver?

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The key is to avoid undue hesitation. Some drivers are so slow they should not be on the road.
Theres a lot more to driving than just what you get on your driving lessons, if you want to learn more mate get involved with advanced driving.

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Originally Posted by puntoar
The key is to avoid undue hesitation. Some drivers are so slow they should not be on the road.
Theres a lot more to driving than just what you get on your driving lessons, if you want to learn more mate get involved with advanced driving.
Been there ,done that,got the badge!

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I ignore speed limits generally.

I drive according to weather as well as the limitations of both my own skill and the limits of my car.

I could drive at NSL down those bends (from start to finish) in almost any conditions and not crash.

5-up in a fiesta, maybe not.

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I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions, whether that be lower or up to the speed limit its the conditions that dictate your speed, an i dont dissagree you may have driven slow on your first test due to incorrect info an we teach when conditions allow yes drive to the limit, and when a student is driving too slow we do tell them to get a move on. Ohh an how can you have been driving since you were 15 thats illegal unless you were on private land. not many people admit they drive like an idiot so fair play!!

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Originally Posted by ludwigvan
Just a thought Ste,how can you be an idiot on the road yet still a better driver than a qualified, experienced,trained driving instructor? What is your perception of a "Good" driver?


haha yes thank you, i agree with you (just didnt want to say it myself)

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Originally Posted by _Ste_
Well thats bullshit as i failed my 1st test due to low confidence (low confidence my ass as i`ve been driving since i was 15) and i was doing the speed limit.


Ditto. I did 35 on a 40 road and 20 on some estate roads and I failed for not "keeping up with the speed and flow of traffic". It really pees me off when the gov goes on about the speed limit not being a target and all these 20 zones.

During the retest I got the same examiner, I drove everywhere at bob on the limit and even left one hand on the gearstick and got a clear pass.

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Originally Posted by phk68bay
I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions


Thats what I do.

Sometimes 20 in a 30 and sometimes 120 in a 70.


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GROW UP!!!No wonder we have awful accidents.

Last edited by parkgater; 9th Oct 2011 6:46pm.
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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by phk68bay
I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions


Thats what I do.

Sometimes 20 in a 30 and sometimes 120 in a 70.



120 in a 70? Are you sure?

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Originally Posted by parkgater
GROW UP!!!No wonder we have awful accidents.


There's an app for that. smile On a serious note at least he admits it, I bet you have never done anything wrong in your life eh?


I was driving illegally before I passed my test, nothing to be proud of but you learn as you get older.
I use the term "idiot" as that being what other normal drivers would probably class me as due to my driving techniques.


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Originally Posted by Pepper_Head
Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by phk68bay
I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions


Thats what I do.

Sometimes 20 in a 30 and sometimes 120 in a 70.



120 in a 70? Are you sure?


Yep - done 155 a few times too.

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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by Pepper_Head
Originally Posted by AlexB
[quote=phk68bay]I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions


Thats what I do.

Sometimes 20 in a 30 and sometimes 120 in a 70.



120 in a 70? Are you sure?


Yep - done 155 a few times too.
[/quote]

Probably not the best thread to show off about how fast you can drive.

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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by Pepper_Head
Originally Posted by AlexB
[quote=phk68bay]I AM a instructor for Chris kelly driving school!! and we tell you to drive to the conditions


Thats what I do.

Sometimes 20 in a 30 and sometimes 120 in a 70.



120 in a 70? Are you sure?


Yep - done 155 a few times too.
[/quote]

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Only stopped at 155 as my car is limited to 155.

Damn sight safer than 40 in a 30 past a school too.

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Most drivers will SPEED at times, I would guess that it's around 80% that have so no lectures from me about speeding.

But please can we leave this topic about the terrible accident and not a testostrone thread about bragging about speeds. Lives have been lost and some on here are being disrespectfull.

Ste as you are a Mod I find it strange some of the comments you have made on this topic, surely you should be showing an example?

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Mods are mods, and he's not overstepped any marks.

He's allowed to have his say, same as the rest of us.

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why brag about speeding on this thread.......consider the family

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Originally Posted by paulph1972
why brag about speeding on this thread.......consider the family


We all feel for the family. But nobody suggested speed or poor driving was the cause?

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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by paulph1972
why brag about speeding on this thread.......consider the family


We all feel for the family. But nobody suggested speed or poor driving was the cause?


I have seen, It's a bad road for speeding etc etc, the way this topic has gone is disrespectfull.

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I think maybe a new thread should be created for kids to brag about how fast they can go. I feel for the families of this tragic accident.

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Brag?!

Speed doesn't kill.

Inappropriate speed kills.

155 on the motorway with no other cars nearby in a car built for it is safer than 40 in a 30 past a school.

Fact.

Yeah, it's off topic, but incidents like this always bring this subject up.

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in a way i must agree a bit with alexb it is inappropriate speed that causes the problems, and yes these things do always bring this subject up. But i also agree with we should leave the subject now.

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Originally Posted by phk68bay
But i also agree with we should leave the subject now.


I'll go with that.


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Originally Posted by AlexB
Originally Posted by phk68bay
But i also agree with we should leave the subject now.


I'll go with that.


this thread was news updates not about speed tests.
let it go !


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