WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Posts1,031,523
Topics76,033
Members14,008
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs5
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
33 registered members (4 invisible), 1,551 guests, and270 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Losing our Freedom re COVID booster jab
by Longnails. 4th Dec 2021 11:40pm
Government’s PIP reviewer disagrees with Coffey’s
by Longnails. 3rd Dec 2021 12:14pm
FastShow
by GaryFromWirral. 2nd Dec 2021 3:22pm
Crazed ...
by GaryFromWirral. 1st Dec 2021 3:42pm
New Wirral History
Wallasey Tunnel construction.
by mikeeb. 1st Dec 2021 2:05pm
Elm Grove Wallasey
by TomWM. 8th Nov 2021 3:01pm
Aerial Archaeology Mapping Explorer
by diggingdeeper. 24th Oct 2021 5:18pm
Wirral Home Guard
by bridekirk. 12th Nov 2020 10:34pm
Rivacre Valley Ellesmere Port
by pegsgirl. 20th Apr 2015 7:06pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Cruise liner Anthem of the Seas
Tram by the Penny Bridge
Topic Replies
Wirral Home Guard
by Tomcra. 6th Dec 2021 12:15pm
Covid Day 2 testing centres with quick processing
by CarterUSM. 6th Dec 2021 9:02am
Leasehold Bill
by Longnails. 5th Dec 2021 11:40pm
6600 Still Without Electricty
by Longnails. 5th Dec 2021 11:26pm
West Kirby bar owner waved knife at bar staff
by keef666. 5th Dec 2021 6:48am
Storm Arwen Aftermath Shocker In Livypool M8
by Greenwood. 3rd Dec 2021 3:49pm
Social Care reforms unfair!
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Dec 2021 1:50am
Blackmere Village
by Greenwood. 2nd Dec 2021 5:36pm
Doctors appointments
by diggingdeeper. 1st Dec 2021 3:24pm
December
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Blackmere Village
by Greenwood. 2nd Dec 2021 5:36pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Education: have standards slipped? #529789
8th Jun 2011 1:29pm
8th Jun 2011 1:29pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
I have an old school exercise book of my grandmother's. It's dated 1900, so she was twelve at the time. Here are some pages from it. Two years later, she was what would now be called a teaching assistant. She never in her life had any formal qualifications, but she was a very intelligent and had a wide range of knowledge. She live to age 93 and I still miss her.

Attached Files
nana's schoolbk1.jpg (267 downloads)
nana's schoolbk2.jpg (264 downloads)
nana's schoolbk3.jpg (262 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Google Ads
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529806
8th Jun 2011 1:58pm
8th Jun 2011 1:58pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,337
1337
ex0__ Offline
Forum Addict
ex0__  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,337
1337
I wonder if that counts as Calligraphy. Very nice writing for a 12 year old.


-----
1337
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529816
8th Jun 2011 2:19pm
8th Jun 2011 2:19pm
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
wirral
poodlepup Offline
Forum Guardian
poodlepup  Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
wirral
lovely writing,does look like calligraphy.

Its great that you still have it in the family.


Every dog has its day!
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529854
8th Jun 2011 3:15pm
8th Jun 2011 3:15pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
C
CVCVCV Offline
Forum Addict
CVCVCV  Offline
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
I find it very interesting that the teacher corrected "I know there is lots of bread under the counter" to "...there are lots of bread..." I doubt that many teachers today would catch that?

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: CVCVCV] #529857
8th Jun 2011 3:30pm
8th Jun 2011 3:30pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,331
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,331
tranmere
Perhaps I'm about to prove I'm a thicko, shouldn't it be " I know there is a lot of bread under the counter" bread is not plural, or there are lots of loaves, if indeed they had or called them loaves at that time.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: bert1] #529865
8th Jun 2011 4:01pm
8th Jun 2011 4:01pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
I'm in agreement with Bert; either of his constructions would be better.
I've always thought that the teacher's correction is wrong; it certainly reads awkwardly.
However, the expression "there's lots of bread under the counter" is unremarkable, even though "there's" is the contraction of "there is".
Incidentally I don't agree with the comma the teacher inserted in the piece; a comma should not generally precede the word "and".
An unspotted mistake is the change of Polly's sex.
I remember my boys being in fits of laughter when I read this to them when they were small.
As to whether this is calligraphy, it was the standard taught in those times and would have been used almost as standard: even the writing on the arithmetic page is almost as good.
The word in the Greek simply means "beautiful writing"


Carpe diem.
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529877
8th Jun 2011 4:29pm
8th Jun 2011 4:29pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101
West Sussex formerly Oxton
masterbun Offline
Enthusiast
masterbun  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101
West Sussex formerly Oxton
I think that this was the standard to which writing was taught back then. It is very similar to my father's who was born in 1906, the open bottomed small "p" was very common.
Copperplate was it not.

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529879
8th Jun 2011 4:33pm
8th Jun 2011 4:33pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,031
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,031
Birkenhead
But part of the problems with the education systems of that time were things like being finicky about handwriting. Some people just don't have the co-ordination to do that, but may have other skills. I think there is far more opportunity for individual skills now, but overall the drop in expectations are horrendous.

Full marks to art and design these days, the only subjects that seems to have raised the bar.

Once systems start measuring and setting targets for quality, you can guarantee the outcome is far from optimal.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: diggingdeeper] #529880
8th Jun 2011 4:35pm
8th Jun 2011 4:35pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101
West Sussex formerly Oxton
masterbun Offline
Enthusiast
masterbun  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101
West Sussex formerly Oxton
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

Once systems start measuring and setting targets for quality, you can guarantee the outcome is far from optimal.


Very nicely put

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529893
8th Jun 2011 4:46pm
8th Jun 2011 4:46pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
C
CVCVCV Offline
Forum Addict
CVCVCV  Offline
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
The "are" v. "is" may be debatable but since the verb here refers to the word "lots" (plural) and not bread (singular) then the teacher may be correct. If she had said "There is a lot of bread" then that would be different...

The comma correction may actually be correct too. It is not incorrect to use a comma before 'and' if the 'and' joins two 'independent clauses'. The second clause here ("summoned the baker") can be considered to be an independent clause (although literally not, as it has no subject before the verb) because the subject "(he) summoned the baker" is implied...

Finally, I have to add that I reckon yes, standards have indeed slipped! Not only as regards the handwriting (which is just STUNNING!) but also, we wouldn't be discussing such minutiae of English grammar otherwise, would we?


Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529897
8th Jun 2011 4:53pm
8th Jun 2011 4:53pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
C
CVCVCV Offline
Forum Addict
CVCVCV  Offline
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
Note, there are another two instances of ", and" in the 3rd sentence of the same Composition. These are also correct, I do believe?

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529907
8th Jun 2011 5:08pm
8th Jun 2011 5:08pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
UK
R
Roslynmuse Offline
Enthusiast
Roslynmuse  Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
UK
Isn't the comma before 'and' called an Oxford comma?

I agree with DD - expectations have dropped leaving standards to fight for survival.

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529920
8th Jun 2011 5:22pm
8th Jun 2011 5:22pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
C
CVCVCV Offline
Forum Addict
CVCVCV  Offline
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,452
ex Wallasey now Atlanta GA USA
Oxford (a.k.a. Serial Comma) isn't quite the same thing:

The Oxford (or serial) comma is the comma that precedes the conjunction before the final item in a list of three or more items. e.g. "Sausage, egg, and chips.."

Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: diggingdeeper] #529931
8th Jun 2011 5:43pm
8th Jun 2011 5:43pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
But part of the problems with the education systems of that time were things like being finicky about handwriting. Some people just don't have the co-ordination to do that, but may have other skills. I think there is far more opportunity for individual skills now, but overall the drop in expectations are horrendous.

Full marks to art and design these days, the only subjects that seems to have raised the bar.

Once systems start measuring and setting targets for quality, you can guarantee the outcome is far from optimal.


Of course, a hundred & more years ago, there was so much less to learn; much more time could be devoted to the basic "3R's", which is so lacking these days. I regret that I've ceased to be surprised by mis-spelling & defective grammar (I don't think it's taught these days & don't get me started on the mis-use of the apostrophe).
Oh,BTW, DD, it's "the drop in expectations is horrendous". wink


Carpe diem.
Re: Education: have standards slipped? [Re: chriskay] #529936
8th Jun 2011 5:50pm
8th Jun 2011 5:50pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
@CVCVCV: point re. comma/and is taken, which is why I wrote "generally". Nice to know that at least some others here have a good grasp of English grammar. (I still don't like that particular comma though).


Carpe diem.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Covid Day 2 testing centres with quick processing
by CarterUSM. 6th Dec 2021 9:02am
6600 Still Without Electricty
by diggingdeeper. 4th Dec 2021 4:12am
Wallasey Tunnel construction.
by mikeeb. 1st Dec 2021 2:05pm
Blackmere Village
by Longnails. 1st Dec 2021 10:02am
Storm Arwen Aftermath Shocker In Livypool M8
by GaryFromWirral. 30th Nov 2021 8:57pm
For Sale & Free
PS5 + extra pad + Wireless headphones
by Peter0787. 30th Nov 2021 11:39am
XMAS IS COMING
by lincle. 18th Nov 2021 8:38pm
Benelli TNT 125cc tornado naked
by paul110180. 17th Nov 2021 5:42pm
Wanted 1980s or any vintage toys top prices paid
by Phildog. 30th Oct 2021 6:13pm
Wanted Adult Magazines
by Phildog. 30th Oct 2021 5:35pm
Member Spotlight
Gibbo
Gibbo
Oxton
Posts: 2,234
Joined: December 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Chammond, JacqMcCo, StevenStafford, Sausage, Newt79
14008 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Covid Day 2 testing centres with quick processing
by CarterUSM. 6th Dec 2021 9:02am
Blackmere Village
by Longnails. 1st Dec 2021 10:02am
Shop Window Personal Ads.
by TheGodSplinter. 25th Nov 2021 5:24pm
Heating engineer
by Paintboffin. 7th Nov 2021 10:03am
Temporary relocation of Birkenhead Market
by mikeeb. 29th May 2021 1:01pm
News : New Topics
6600 Still Without Electricty
by diggingdeeper. 4th Dec 2021 4:12am
Storm Arwen Aftermath Shocker In Livypool M8
by GaryFromWirral. 30th Nov 2021 8:57pm
West Kirby bar owner waved knife at bar staff
by Gibbo. 30th Nov 2021 12:28pm
Leasehold Bill
by BultacoAstro. 30th Nov 2021 9:37am
Social Care reforms unfair!
by Longnails. 25th Nov 2021 2:36pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 13th Mar 2019 12:43pm
John Lewis Xmas advert
by cools. 4th Nov 2016 7:14pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 8:13am
Sunset Mon 3:54pm
Local Time Mon 2:00pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1