Forums Forums Wirral Information Law And Your Rights TRAIN NAZIS

Some are also attested as Special Constables, so have similar powers to Specials.

People that can check your ticket on Merseyrail....

1. Guard onboard the train

2. Revenue Protection Officer (employed by Merseyrail) either on board train or on station platform and/or entrance/exit

3. Security/Byelaws Team (contracted by Merseyrail) either on board train or on station platform and/or entrance/exit

4. British Transport Police Officers either on board train or on station platform and/or entrance/exit

5. Merseyside Police Officers/PCO either on board train or on station platform and/or entrance/exit

2 and 3 can issue those penalty fines that you mention that you have been issued with, I think the Police just go for prosecution.

I would imagine that they all have heard the many excuses, hundreds of times and have to make a decision as to whether a person is genuine or not. The best way is to ensure that you have a valid ticket beforehand at all times.

I think you have got a good negotiation point if the bloke didn't identify himself correctly, in this case he should have told you what his employment title was.

The "I'm wearing a uniform" doesn't work in this case, because I am fairly sure there is no such crime as "impersonating a ticket collector" or whatever.

Any unwanted contact with the pram is way out of order.

Just write off, asking for the correct official complaint method and indicate if they don't wave the fines and apologise for heavy-handedness then you will make an official complaint.

You can give them the chance to back down by saying you understand that in the heat of the moment some misjudgements may have been made but that if they are convinced correct procedure was followed then you will pursue the complaint.

Mark the correspondence "Without Prejudice" and keep a copy.

Why should they waive the fines!?! No valid ticket for travel = fine plus fare for journey. Simples!!

Things have changed then, as I remember it (~30 years ago, I used to commute daily, Wallasey Village / James St.) on occasion being a bit late and no time to go to the ticket office, as the train was already in the station, jumping on without a ticket and then simply paying the guard the required fare - and all was well! I guess there was no presumption of guilt, of intent to defraud, back then? Oh well....

I agree with Wench, the amount of times they've all heard "Oh i've lost my ticket" is probably one of the reasons for such a big fine, to make up for the lost revenue.

Except that if you really have lost (or mislaid) your ticket, then there is no loss of revenue...

No no i know, but they can't prove that, our law is adversarial not inquisitorial, it's proof not truth etc. etc.

The onus would be on the individual to prove that they had purchased a valid ticket. How many people ask for a receipt for their tickets? Even if you do, there is no guarantee that it will state that it was for a ticket in the case of a saveaway.

The ins, outs and every conceivable possibility and scenario can be debated until the cows come home but it will still come down to the fact that you must have and be able to produce, when asked, a valid ticket for travel. If you don't or can't then you will be fined, and rightly so!! Why should the people who DO pay for their tickets have to subsidise the ones that don't bother? No different to car insurance.

This is all a bit maddening.

I caught a train at Leasowe to Liverpool the other day. WHen I got to Leasowe some muppet had crashed into the level crossing barrier. When I went to the ticket window the shutter was down so I couldn't buy a ticket.

When I got off at Liverpool Central I approached a ticket collector at the gate. I explained why I had no ticket and asked her what I should therefore do. She looked at me like I had three heads - as if to incinuate 'why the hell are you bothering me with this?' She rather half-heartedly then told me to go and buy a ticket. And I did! I bought a return! I could have just bought my ticket back to Leasowe but I didn't!

It irritates me that they can be so hot-headed (as in the topic of this thread) and then so 'can't be arsed' as in my case!

Isn't that what it says on all those information posters, 'if you can't produce' not 'if you haven't bought', so you're right anyway.

OK all points well taken. I still think it was cool when you could just pay the guard and he would hand-write you a ticket good for the current journey!
(and sorry if I'm drifting a bit off-topic... I will shut up now!)

I agree those days were better.

Because they may have not followed the correct procedure, rules work two ways - if they are squeaky clean then they can quite correctly fine, but it sounds very much like they overstepped their mark and didn't follow their correct procedures.

Whilst it sounds a bit pedantic, when you see how the police operate in most of the USA, they operate in a pre-programmed robotic manner, in almost every situation they know exactly what to do and how to do it, they play by the rules and if you don't it is your problem.

Didnt u read it all wench ??the baby kicked off we miss layed the tickets simples!!