Forums Forums National News BROWN HAS GONE

Well there's a surprise, didn't see that coming, I thought David Cameron was the soul of honesty and discretion. NOT

Tax credits for families earning over 50k, are rightly being scrapped. The reason for the jobs tax comprimise was because of the Lib Dems, not the Tories - their plan was always to scrap it completely.

VAT is going to go up, and we always knew it, I don't ever recall the Conservatives saying "any" tax would not see a rise - don't blame to Tories for it, go and thank Angela Eagle and the rest of her Labour cronies, who sat back and clapped whilst Labour ran up an annual public deficit of £163bn - which means we are now nearing 1trillion pounds in DEBT.

I seriously think people need to wake up and realise how bad the situation is, people don't want cuts, but they don't want taxes - wtf - how do we lower defecit then?? Im all for VAT being increased, it mainly affects luxuries (food is not subject to VAT, childrens clothes are not subject to VAT, energy VAT is a lower-rate of 5% anyway) - who gives a flying fook if your brand new 50" Japanese built plasma television or your brand new Korean built car is subject to 20 or even 25% VAT, after all these are things you can happily live without.

People also need to realise how lucky we have it over here, being privaledged enough to be able to set our own taxation levels and not having to have them forced upon us by the IMF - take a look at Greece and the levels of taxation that are being forced upon them as a result of their bail out - we are so lucky, so put up with the higher taxes and if you want to blame anyone, blame Labour and their wonderful hammering of the economy over the past decade...

WELL SAID-MattLFC.

As I see it, we have two options available to us.

A. Get the public finances and debt under control, this means CUT's and HIGHER TAXES concurrently, which as much as nobody wants to see it happen, is the only possible way for it to happen. Please remember, we not only have to try and remove the annual defecit, but also the existing mountain of debt we have sustained, after it. This is going to take decades, and is going to mean we will experience some harsh cutbacks and taxes.

or...

B. Keep on borrowing and spending as Labour were doing before the election, and eventually run the country into bankruptcy. If anyone thinks this is a better option, fair enough, but it means the pound will become worthless, taxes will be insane, and nobody will lend us another penny regardless of how high our GDP is, because they know they will never get it back. The IMF may bail us out, but that will leave us in the same position as Greece.

I watched the Panorama programme the other night, all the people capaigning to keep uderused local swimming pools open and free music tuition etc ad saying there should be no cut-backs of any kind to any service, but don't understand it... my question to them is, without an increase in every tax to silly levels, where exactly do we get the money from?? That's all I would like to know, if we don't cut, and we don't tax higher, where does the money come from to pay for everything??

None of this is the fault of the Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats, they were not the ones controlling the national budget for the past 13 years.

If we had an industry left then there might have been something for Labour to manage.

Anyone can close businesses that are making a loss (or sell them off if they are making a profit or are asset-rich), it takes skill to manage the situation and help turn things round.

Up to a couple of years ago, Brown was being praised for his handling of the economy.

5% energy tax - how much longer, I'm pre-warming my flat ready for the day

Cameron loves the lib-tory pact, he can use that as an excuse to u-turn on anything he promised.

We'll see, one years time the crunch will have started and had noticeable impact.

SO what you are saying, is without industry, we are always going to end up in this situation? So how come, in 1997, when the Labour government assumed the economy from the Conservatives, the economy was booming? Why could the Labour Government not manage the economy in a prudent enough manner to avoid this trouble? I don't buy into that, if the Conservatives managed it, why could'nt Labour? Because "New Labour" was always about trying to make everyone believe they could have everything, so they borrowed and borrowed and borrowed to spend and spend and spend, and everyone thought it was great, until now, when we realise we have overspent massively, and have gigantic debts, and no way of paying them back without a combination of higher taxes and public service cuts.

If you want to try and say that because we have little industry left, the problems can't be fixed, then what is the point in trying, we are an un-sustainable nation, and are heading for bankruptcy, and we are going to suffer the pains of that as a result.

Remember all the gold we had, the gold that Gordon sold, during a boom time, whilst the price of gold was at its lowest level for 20 years... We have not got that to back us up anymore.

When the former Labour Treasury Secratary leaves a memo-note to the new government stating "Good luck, theres no money left", how can anyone a. blame the new government for anything, and b. believe Labour were doing anything other than trying wreck the economy.

As you know Matt, you can fiddle any business to make it look better short term, but it isn't sustainable long term. We need heavy industry to make money for this country, in this country.

You won't remember when we got stung by the French in the days when we used the gold standard - nearly all the treasury assets were in gold, the French flooded the market with gold which crashed the price and very very nearly bankrupt the UK.

Last time the tories were in, more and more of UK business was passing its profits abroad (eg ICL who was the approved government computer source - became a Japanese Company and the Government still insisted that all government contracts went to ICL). We can't afford to generate jobs internally when the profits don't stay inside the country.

I think it was rather sporting to say "Good Luck" and the "no money left" was a statement of fact

Im just amazed that people still can't find it in their hearts to blame Labour's handling of the economy or Gordon Brown for the current financial difficulties.

I had said since last year, that in a way I hoped the Conservatives would not win this election, because they were going to end up as the unpopular party because it would be this term of government that would have to fix the economy or let it go bankrupt, and either way it would involve hurting the people.

I have faith in the Tories to rescue the economy and start rebuilding it, I don't have faith in the electorate not being fickle and realising the things that need to happen (cuts and taxes) to fix it, and realising the previous Governments spending got us into this mess, however.

Im not saying the Tories are the perfect party to fix it, or that they will get every spending, cut and taxation decision right, because they won't, they will also make very unpopular decisions, however the one thing they won't allow to happen, is for the country to head towards bankruptcy as a result of continued ludacris borrowing and spending levels. If we do end up there, it won't be without a fight - had Labour remained in power, we may as well have surrendered to the IMF by now and filed for bankruptcy lol, because it was coming.

Remember, it's against Conservative ideology to have high taxation and welfare-state dependency, so any tax increases that are out of the norm, would be something we don't do lightly and something that does not sit easy with us.

Welfare state = "is a concept of government where the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens"

And if that's not an ideology of the Conservative Party then that will explain a lot.

"welfare-state dependency" does not come free, it is mostly a state run insurance, you pay in while you work. Although many insurance schemes think otherwise, it is only fair to be able to pay-out as well, especially if National Insurance is getting increased.

There is the age-old question, so many countries have major borrowing, where is the money borrowed from - or have we an extraterrestrial debt?

I have no problem with those who get some help when they need it, so long as they help themselves and work for a living when they are able to. It is all these long-term scroungers and teenage mums and alcoholics and drug-addicts etc who do my nut in, leeching off society whilst your taxes are paying for their everything, and more-often than not, they end up better off then you and me. I also hate this philohphy everyone seems to have, that the state should pay for everything in their lives, all our community services should be top-notch, I mean music lessons, come on, do we really expect the government to pay for everyone to have music lessons lol.

If someone hasnt done a days work in their life, why should they be entitled to a days dole?

Labour pretty much promoted this way of life for a lot of people, and made many benefits so high and easy to obtain, that it meant people were genuinely better off on the dole than they were working - where is the sense in that? It was only when the recession hit in hard, and the jobs market was deflated, did Labour, in their infinite wisdom, decide to start doing anything about it, by which time, there was no jobs to get these long-term unemployed back into work with.

I have a feeling we are borrowing all the money from China...

Right I am off to Tescos (for a change), to get my £1.80 per day worth of food and drink that the Government says is possible to live on.

I bet you wish you were 17 now, and had a few babies

I didn't know ready meals came that cheap