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#388583 15th Feb 2010 8:49pm
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Plusone witnessed today a horrible attack on a King Charles dog by an unleashed (we think) American Bull Mastiff. The poor little dog died. The 'owner'+ dog ran off, a witness followed in car and was able to tell police where.
Been around to pass condolences to young girl, police have got the A.BM owner but no dog and have enough evidence to charge him-what with though?

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If the dog is legal the police cant ask for destruction of it but council can-how does this work?

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Rude, this is shocking, I spoke to one of the people at our dog club and they sent me something which I hope you find helpful in this case.

The Dog Control Orders (Prescribed Offences and Penalties, etc.) Regulations 2006 states that dogs must be on a lead in a public place maximum fine £100.

Dangerous Dogs act 1991 states any personal loss incurred due to a dog attack is due to compensation paid through the courts. It also allows for the destruction of illegal dogs deemed dangerous. This does not only refer to “banned” breeds ie pit-bulls or Japanese Tosas, but to dogs deemed to be dangerous due to an unprovoked attack. This is a criminal offence. Section 3 allows the Police to seize the dog and to destroy it unless the owner can prove that the attack was exceptional and totally out of character.

The Dogs act 1871 still covers most legislation concerning attacks by a dog out of control. The legislation covers mostly civil action, but the case is usually heard in Magistrates court.

The most important thing to do is to report the attack to the Police and find or provide the address and name of the owner.

Please keep us updated on this awful case.


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OMG - that's awful

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Will keep you all updated-expecting the police over next couple of days to take statement from plusone. As i said they got lad in custoady atm but he saying nothing about whereabouts of the dog.

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Originally Posted by Capt_America
Rude, this is shocking, I spoke to one of the people at our dog club and they sent me something which I hope you find helpful in this case.

The Dog Control Orders (Prescribed Offences and Penalties, etc.) Regulations 2006 states that dogs must be on a lead in a public place maximum fine £100.

Dangerous Dogs act 1991 states any personal loss incurred due to a dog attack is due to compensation paid through the courts. It also allows for the destruction of illegal dogs deemed dangerous. This does not only refer to “banned” breeds ie pit-bulls or Japanese Tosas, but to dogs deemed to be dangerous due to an unprovoked attack. This is a criminal offence. Section 3 allows the Police to seize the dog and to destroy it unless the owner can prove that the attack was exceptional and totally out of character.

The Dogs act 1871 still covers most legislation concerning attacks by a dog out of control. The legislation covers mostly civil action, but the case is usually heard in Magistrates court.

The most important thing to do is to report the attack to the Police and find or provide the address and name of the owner.

Please keep us updated on this awful case.
thanks, will take this info to the owner/ victim.

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Would it be an offence to hide/ harbour the attaking animal, even its a legal breed? 'perverting the course of justice'?

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bizarely...it would actually be criminal damage. Death of the dog is considered "damage" for the purposes of criminal damage...dog is considered property....bizzare!

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mad Where abouts did this happen? I know of someone walking around with a banned breed, not muzzled.

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Yes an animal is considered property, but steps can be taken through the courts to impound the animal if it is considered dangerous! I hate it when I walk my dog on his lead and dogs that are off lead approach barking and snarling, just two days ago my dog had his face bitten by a Jrt.

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Originally Posted by aegean
mad Where abouts did this happen? I know of someone walking around with a banned breed, not muzzled.
report it then?!
From plusones description the attacking dog was an american bull mastiff-i.e not illegal.

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Originally Posted by angelina
Yes an animal is considered property, but steps can be taken through the courts to impound the animal if it is considered dangerous! I hate it when I walk my dog on his lead and dogs that are off lead approach barking and snarling, just two days ago my dog had his face bitten by a Jrt.
this animal sniffed, attacked-a few seconds later it was 'all over'. No need to be more specific than that! All dogs should be on a leash and under proper control of handler/ owner.

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smile I actually meant where did the attack take place? There is a person who has a banned breed, it is known by the police and dog wardens. Where did the attack happen? k.e. location

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This animal has been described by witnesses as NOT illegal so i dont think its the one you talking about? It was in seacombe.

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Thanks, shame about the dog and the owner who must be traumatised. The dog Im talking about has attacked loads of dogs but the owner seems to be above the law, his dog is a pit bull. Makes me sick, it went for my dog, whose daft as a brush, managed to intervene in time though Someone should take action over that dog in Seacombe, imagine if it did that to a child? banned or not banned breed its still dangerous!

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Exactly!! Could be a child next-not that i'm underestimating the trauma to the 'young girl owner'. I agree re. Dangerous dog- legal or illegal!! Its so wrong. Re the dog in your area SOMEONE must know something?!

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I agree. In this day and age it seems to take the needless death of a child (the attacks in Liverpool for example) before anything constructive is done, even then people seem to slip through the net - the person by me. frown

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I agree Rude, all dogs should be under control and on leash, mine always is and he is daft as a brush too!! We also live near to Seacombe and I think we may have come across that dog. condolences to the girl and her family... a dog is a part of a family.

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omg the poor owner of the spaniel, and how horrid must it have been for that little dog. cry
there is a bloke about mid 20's goes around wallasey with a white dog that has a black patch over one eye, it's a large Staffie X
we were in Central park Liscard a prize d**khead was walking towards us with his dog on a lead, as soon as he saw my dogs he let it off its lead and it ran towards us i stood still with my 3 and he shouted it's "ok he wont fight", and it immediately attacked Tilly, she had a ball in her mouth so couldn't defend herself, mad shady had run off in another direction, i looked around and Bailey and this dog are having a stand up fight, i kicked the staffs legs from under it and Bailey pinned it to the floor. the dip s**t said "oh sorry that was my fault" i replied
(in a not so polite tone) "i know it's your fault you stupid T***!!! you knew your dog was going to attack my dogs and you did f*** all to get your dog off them" mad and then the cavalry arrived in the form of merseyside police busted who were in the park sorting out drunken teenagers, they saw everything and gave him a warning that he will be watched because apparently it's not the first time this moron has done this. he gets off on watching his dog fight. mad luckily none of mine were hurt. and he's patting and playing with his dog as he walks away with a big grin on his face.
i know it's not the dogs fault but it's morons like him that should be a banned breed not the dog!!

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That fella sounds like a right idiot! Ive come across all sorts when Im out with my dog, hes been attacked and the owner has turned round to me and said its your dogs body language! Theres alot of agressive dogs (and owners) around but most dogs are good types.

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Originally Posted by aegean
That fella sounds like a right idiot! Ive come across all sorts when Im out with my dog, hes been attacked and the owner has turned round to me and said its your dogs body language! Theres alot of agressive dogs (and owners) around but most dogs are good types.


i feel for the dogs i really do, they don't know any better other than what they have been taught by idiots.

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Originally Posted by Tilly
i kicked the staffs legs from under it and Bailey pinned it to the floor.


very disappionted with you Tilly, i thought you were better than that. snob

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omg


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Originally Posted by _jase_


Originally Posted by Tilly
i kicked the staffs legs from under it and Bailey pinned it to the floor.


very disappionted with you Tilly, i thought you were better than that. snob
Originally Posted by _Ste_
omg
shocked withthat


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my dog hates other dogs, hence i keep her on a lead at all times. She was a rescue dog so I can't discriminate against aggressive dogs like this, only the irresponsible owners.

I have had several dogs attack my dog, twice she has slipped her lead and run of (she is a Whippet/Greyhound cross so no other dogs can keep up with her) and tiwce she has given the attacking dogs a good nip (once because i loosened her lead slightly as the dogs were biting her, itwas underneath her biting her belly).

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Originally Posted by _jase_


Originally Posted by Tilly
i kicked the staffs legs from under it and Bailey pinned it to the floor.


very disappionted with you Tilly, i thought you were better than that. snob


whistle shit happens jase!! shh

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Tillypher thats not very nice of you! noonoo

You cannot go around the streets with your dog beating defenceless animals up. laugh


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Originally Posted by _Ste_
Tillypher thats not very nice of you! noonoo

You cannot go around the streets with your dog beating defenceless animals up. laugh


omg i wouldn't dream of it Ste!! no good job we were in the park innit!!!!!! happy

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raftl


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Any update on the case Rudebox?


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Nooo! Not yet. Expecting plod yesterday (even got the hoover+ febreeze out). She rang up + sed had a 999, then days off, then nites). She coming to take statement thur 25th-particularly interested in 'dialogue' of dog 'handler?'

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Got that verbatim-written down. The dialogue, i mean.

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Now, me main problem is-where did i hide the bong? ;d

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any updates on this Rude???

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Update of sorts-police came+ tk a statement today. They thimk they have enough evidence to prosecute the lad buut not found the dog.


Say it, then!!!!!!!!!
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he must hiding the dog somewhere

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Originally Posted by Tilly
he must hiding the dog somewhere
Might have buried it. The court will not be happy with him if he doesn't say where it is, it will increase his sentence and increase his penalty. He probably won't say because he has killed it inhumanly.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by Tilly
he must hiding the dog somewhere
Might have buried it. The court will not be happy with him if he doesn't say where it is, it will increase his sentence and increase his penalty. He probably won't say because he has killed it inhumanly.


maybe, but it's more than likely he has it stashed away.

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If you know where the owner of the Pitbull lives you could report it to the Animal Control Department at..

Tel:- (0151) 647 8799

Email:- [email protected]
Or you could try the local Police. Merseyside Police have been very pro-active in removing/investigating Pitbulls since the death of the little toddler in Liverpool last year. There is a problem in Egremont in Wallasey with irresponsible dog owners who have their Pitbulls and Pitbull Crosses off the lead.. it isnt safe to take a dog out round here because there is always the danger of running into pitbulls and their 'chavvy' owners locally because there are that many. The problem of these dangerous dogs is the main reason why I dont have a dog anymore.. A year or so ago I heard of an Elderly lady who saw a pitbull cross running toward her yorkshire terrier on the promenade... she picked up her 'yorkie' to get him out of the way of the dog and the owner deliberately set his pitbull on the dog in the womans arms... the Yorkshire terrier had to have its leg amputated and the poor lady was terrified beyond belief...

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Originally Posted by Handbag
If you know where the owner of the Pitbull lives you could report it to the Animal Control Department at..

Tel:- (0151) 647 8799

Email:- [email protected]
Or you could try the local Police. Merseyside Police have been very pro-active in removing/investigating Pitbulls since the death of the little toddler in Liverpool last year. There is a problem in Egremont in Wallasey with irresponsible dog owners who have their Pitbulls and Pitbull Crosses off the lead.. it isnt safe to take a dog out round here because there is always the danger of running into pitbulls and their 'chavvy' owners locally because there are that many. The problem of these dangerous dogs is the main reason why I dont have a dog anymore.. A year or so ago I heard of an Elderly lady who saw a pitbull cross running toward her yorkshire terrier on the promenade... she picked up her 'yorkie' to get him out of the way of the dog and the owner deliberately set his pitbull on the dog in the womans arms... the Yorkshire terrier had to have its leg amputated and the poor lady was terrified beyond belief...

I remember that happening too. it must have been really horrific for both of them.
Most Pitts and pitt crosses are lovely sweet natured dogs. it's the people that own and train them to make them vicious that are the problem. it's no good talking to the police either they wouldn't know what a pitt bull looked like if it bit them on the arse. hundreds of dogs have been seized by the police and destroyed that were not pitt bulls.

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I'm sorry for the girls loss frown

If I was walking my dog and some irrisponsible chav let his dog attack mine I would not hesitate to do whatever it takes to get his dog off mine. I would litterally try and kill it!

I don't care if you don't like that idea but I would treat it as if it was attacking my daughter. Some peoples pets are like family, and if someone/something tried to hurt any of them then god help them.

Yesterday I saw a young teenage lad walking a large intimidating dog and making it attack a fallen tree on a road by my control room. I watched him via CCTV as the dog ripped branches off and moved to the trunk of the tree. He then started jumping on the trunk ragging the dogs head around. After a while h got bored and walked on but the dog continued to bite the tree. He shouted the dog but it just ignored him. So he walked up to it and punched it in the side of the head/ear. The dog let out an almighty yelp (I heard it inside my building some 35metres away). The dog walked behind him up the path for a while and then got infront of him only to be punched again in the head.

I think a separate authority should be set up to observe dog owners like this, I don't think the police do enough to combat it at all. I don't know if it is a case of too much paperwork? Rather keep patrolling for a more serious crime? Got to meet targets elsewere? Simpley can't be bothered? Don't know what powers to use agaisnt the dog owner?. I just don't know frown

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All dogs muzzled in public places, though i would like to see the breeding out of some breeds and in about 15 years there would be no sign of them. Some breeds no longer have a use in present day society, what they were originally bred for no longer exists. I don't go along with, you have to be a bad owner to have a bad dog, i know it doesn't help, certain breeds being in the wrong hands, but that doesn't say dogs in good hands can't turn, as it has been proven time and time again. If a heavy fine was involved for unmuzzled dogs and an incentive provided to report anyone with a unmuzzled dog in public, it may stop dog attacks in the public domain. It may seem hard on those who think they have good dogs and are good owners, but we all have to make sacrifices to make our lives and the lives of children safer.


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Originally Posted by _jase_


Originally Posted by Tilly
i kicked the staffs legs from under it and Bailey pinned it to the floor.


very disappionted with you Tilly, i thought you were better than that. snob


I would do the same if it was to defend my dog.


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Originally Posted by bert1
All dogs muzzled in public places, though i would like to see the breeding out of some breeds and in about 15 years there would be no sign of them. Some breeds no longer have a use in present day society, what they were originally bred for no longer exists. I don't go along with, you have to be a bad owner to have a bad dog, i know it doesn't help, certain breeds being in the wrong hands, but that doesn't say dogs in good hands can't turn, as it has been proven time and time again. If a heavy fine was involved for unmuzzled dogs and an incentive provided to report anyone with a unmuzzled dog in public, it may stop dog attacks in the public domain. It may seem hard on those who think they have good dogs and are good owners, but we all have to make sacrifices to make our lives and the lives of children safer.


i wouldn't muzzle my dogs. 1. they don't bite 2. because of the others that wouldn't muzzle theirs, if mine were attacked by an un muzzled dog how do mine defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by Wheels
I'm sorry for the girls loss frown

If I was walking my dog and some irrisponsible chav let his dog attack mine I would not hesitate to do whatever it takes to get his dog off mine. I would litterally try and kill it!

I don't care if you don't like that idea but I would treat it as if it was attacking my daughter. Some peoples pets are like family, and if someone/something tried to hurt any of them then god help them.

Yesterday I saw a young teenage lad walking a large intimidating dog and making it attack a fallen tree on a road by my control room. I watched him via CCTV as the dog ripped branches off and moved to the trunk of the tree. He then started jumping on the trunk ragging the dogs head around. After a while h got bored and walked on but the dog continued to bite the tree. He shouted the dog but it just ignored him. So he walked up to it and punched it in the side of the head/ear. The dog let out an almighty yelp (I heard it inside my building some 35metres away). The dog walked behind him up the path for a while and then got infront of him only to be punched again in the head.

I think a separate authority should be set up to observe dog owners like this, I don't think the police do enough to combat it at all. I don't know if it is a case of too much paperwork? Rather keep patrolling for a more serious crime? Got to meet targets elsewere? Simpley can't be bothered? Don't know what powers to use agaisnt the dog owner?. I just don't know frown

frown
can't you keep the cctv footage and take it to the police.
or even the rspca after all they are the ones that are supposed to act on animal cruelty. god forbid they are all these dogs have at the moment.

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A few years ago my chihuahua killed a pit bull. It got stuck in its throat.


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Originally Posted by Tilly


i wouldn't muzzle my dogs. 1. they don't bite 2. because of the others that wouldn't muzzle theirs, if mine were attacked by an un muzzled dog how do mine defend themselves.


Tilly - up to a point I agree with what you are saying but that is the same excuse that half the kids use for carrying knives! They say they carry them to protect themselves from others that carry them.
It all turns into a spiral with no let up. Something somewhere has to give.

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Originally Posted by Softy_Southerner
[quote=Tilly]

i wouldn't muzzle my dogs. 1. they don't bite 2. because of the others that wouldn't muzzle theirs, if mine were attacked by an un muzzled dog how do mine defend themselves.


Tilly, they haven't bit yet, never say never, who knows what around the corner. If it was law to muzzle all dogs, followed by a heavy fine if your caught without a muzzle on a dog in a public place, it would soon catch on and the vast majority of people would obey the law, just like the seat belt law or the non smoking in public places law.


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I agree - all dogs muzzled. Simple job for dog wardens, any dog without a muzzle is automatically picked up, whether owner present or not.

If owner gives them hard time, photograph them and £200 on the spot fine.

If owner wants dog back then £100 return charge valid only for 7 days.

Second offence all fees/fines are doubled, third trebled etc.

Within a couple of months there wouldn't be an unmuzzled dog in site.

I wouldn't put a hydraulic scissor in charge a person or animal with a mental age of a small child and then left to roam in public.

Powerful jawed dogs should classed the same as lions etc and licenced and controlled the same.

Where is the problem with any of that?


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Originally Posted by Softy_Southerner
Originally Posted by Tilly


i wouldn't muzzle my dogs. 1. they don't bite 2. because of the others that wouldn't muzzle theirs, if mine were attacked by an un muzzled dog how do mine defend themselves.


Tilly - up to a point I agree with what you are saying but that is the same excuse that half the kids use for carrying knives! They say they carry them to protect themselves from others that carry them.
It all turns into a spiral with no let up. Something somewhere has to give.


right so muzzle ALL dogs. so why not make ALL kids walk around with their hands tied behind their backs! another problem solved??
not all kids are knife wielding thugs. same as not all dogs bite.

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I am afraid its the attitude that means no dogs are muzzled and kids (and adults) get killed and maimed.

No dogs bite until they do.

What is the reason you won't have a muzzle on your dog, most owners are happy to put a collar and lead on.

Sorry we are on opposite sides of the fence on this one Tilly.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
I am afraid its the attitude that means no dogs are muzzled and kids (and adults) get killed and maimed.

No dogs bite until they do.

What is the reason you won't have a muzzle on your dog, most owners are happy to put a collar and lead on.

Sorry we are on opposite sides of the fence on this one Tilly.


no worries DD smile

my dogs wear a Halti/headcollar because they to pull when out on a lead. I don't see why they should have to wear a Muzzle when they don't bite. simple. smile




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WHY oh WHY do all people automatically crucify the breed, I have an Irish Staff and am always in Central Park with him I regularly have him off his lead but if I see a strange dog I put him on his lead. This poor woman must have been terrified when her little dog was attacked. Laws must be introduced to protect us all .... Bull breed lovers too.... why can't there be a card carrying dog licence introduced and laws stating nobody under 21 can be in charge of / own a bull breed . Have the licencing scaled from 1 to 5 with little dogs at 1 and the big powerful breeds at 5 starting at £20 per year for a grade 1 dog to £100 per year for the bigger stronger dogs .
I see these youths walking with sometimes up to 4 or 5 american bulldaogs and wonder how they are allowed to roam the streets like this . If licencin g is introduced and policed properly the majority of problem owners will be dealt with in pretty short order

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Its not a matter of crucifying the breed, its a case of common sense, you wouldn't give a loaded gun to a three year old, unfortunately some breeds of dogs have jaws powerful enough to do severe damage. Don't forget kids aren't allowed to carry/buy knives because they are not considered responsible enough.

Why do we have laws governing other dangerous animals (lions, tigers etc), or do you disagree with them as well, they are only another breed of animal. And as has been shown MANY times, some of these animals have been passive for many years but can turn.

What is wrong with a muzzle other than stubbornness of owners which is near identical to the stubbornness of the irresponsible dog owners?

Many of us fought the seatbelt laws, there was no logic to the objection, just stubbornness but just about everybody has accepted them now - how painful was that, not at all! Muzzles are equally important and equally painless.

I was reminded about the seatbelts the other day, when I had a young girl passenger in my car, just as we were arriving at her house she took her seatbelt off a bit early, at the same time a dog that was walking with its owner, dived into the road immediately in front of me. I braked very hard and the young girl smashed her face into the windscreen - luckily I was only doing about 10 mph.

This reminds me that I was stupid enough to fight the seatbelt laws, if I had been doing 20mph she would had some sort of facial injury.

Come on guys, eat your pride, go with the muzzles and make ALL dogs safe.


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Originally Posted by cmarkyj68
WHY oh WHY do all people automatically crucify the breed, I have an Irish Staff and am always in Central Park with him I regularly have him off his lead but if I see a strange dog I put him on his lead. This poor woman must have been terrified when her little dog was attacked. Laws must be introduced to protect us all .... Bull breed lovers too.... why can't there be a card carrying dog licence introduced and laws stating nobody under 21 can be in charge of / own a bull breed . Have the licencing scaled from 1 to 5 with little dogs at 1 and the big powerful breeds at 5 starting at £20 per year for a grade 1 dog to £100 per year for the bigger stronger dogs .
I see these youths walking with sometimes up to 4 or 5 american bulldaogs and wonder how they are allowed to roam the streets like this . If licencin g is introduced and policed properly the majority of problem owners will be dealt with in pretty short order

Totally agree with you there about bull breeds being the brunt of every legislation they can throw at them. I personally love the bull breeds it's the majority of louts that own them.
BSL has to go it doesn't work.
my son had an irish staff for many years she was the most loving dog ever.

muzzles will never be enforced DD because
As with "all dogs on leads in a public place", it isn't enforceable...there isn't going to be a dog warden in every field, park, footpath and alleyway in the county dishing out fines for your dog not wearing a muzzle. There isn't and will never be the manpower to make that happen.

Last edited by Tilly; 16th Mar 2010 2:48pm.
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