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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #324713
1st Jun 2009 4:36pm
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I realise I chopped the ammo bunkers off the 1972 pictures above, so here is a better picture of them.

I thought they look very small for a storage facilty compared to a HAA site, as a rough guideline EACH GUN on a HAA site had about 1000 cubic feet of storage, a site normally had 3 or 4 guns, making say 4000 cubic feet of storage for each HAA site.

But I realise now, those bunkers are HUGE, I am guessing 150 X 50 X 10 feet. Which gives 25000 cubic feet per bunker = 75000 cubic feet for the Upton site.

Perhaps you can confirm my estimate for bunker size.

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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #324743
1st Jun 2009 6:01pm
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DD, i don't think you would be that far off with your sizing of the bunkers,

Last edited by bert1; 1st Jun 2009 6:01pm.

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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #324752
1st Jun 2009 6:11pm
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Thanks Bert, they certainly look a bit more robust than the Dunham-on-Hill Ordnance storage site (you can see 2 or 3 of their 28 bunkers by the Helsby turn-off on M56).

Clicky


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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #324755
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Thanks Bert, they certainly look a bit more robust than the Dunham-on-Hill Ordnance storage site (you can see 2 or 3 of their 28 bunkers by the Helsby turn-off on M56).

Clicky


DD they look like a garden shed compared to the Upton bunkers, What ever they kept in them was not likely to blow out very easily.


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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #324767
1st Jun 2009 6:36pm
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That site (Dunham-on-Hill) had one sixth of the entire British Ordnance at one point in time. It was the only British Military site the Germans never found.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 1st Jun 2009 6:37pm.

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #325036
2nd Jun 2009 5:23pm
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Is this like the ammo bunkers at Upton?

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ammo_bunker.jpg (224 downloads)

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #325041
2nd Jun 2009 5:49pm
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DD, very similar indeed, on the side elevation on your photo the blast wall has 4 strengthening pillars or posts whatever there called, on the Upton bunkers they had them on the actual bunker wall (external) with doors in between them. The blast wall was the same height but with banked up earth, Where is that Bunker ?


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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #325052
2nd Jun 2009 6:21pm
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That is at RAF Cark in Cumbria.

If the blastwalls had earth piled against them, they would have buttresses as well (I have been trying to think of that word for the last week as well - no comments about spelling)

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 2nd Jun 2009 6:23pm.

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #325148
2nd Jun 2009 7:43pm
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Thats interesting DD, RAF CARK, did any of the places you listed have any conection with the RAF

Wednesfield
Walsgrave on Sowe
Upton
Kidbrook
Weyhill
York
Inchinnan

Every time i look for AAOD, it takes me towards Army aviation or Army Air.


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Come yourself,
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Bertieone.
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #325177
2nd Jun 2009 8:21pm
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Army Aviation OD and Army Air OD are both yank military, even info on them is surprisingly thin on the ground.

I got most of those places by where a member of AAOD was posted, then a couple were lucky finds. There is nothing certain about the list - but the lack of info worries me, there is a chance that it comes under another umbrella, otherwise I am back to a conspiracy theory.

Some of those locations have a ROF nearby at least two have RAF, I think, I will try and find out.

If anybody knows what they trained at Hillsea, Portsmouth during WW2, then that could be useful.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #325181
2nd Jun 2009 8:47pm
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That's right DD. yank military but also Australian and Aussie forces had similar names to us, they just put an A in front of it. Your right the lack of info does make one wonder.

Last edited by bert1; 2nd Jun 2009 8:47pm.

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Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
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Bertieone.
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #325189
2nd Jun 2009 9:19pm
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PDF] Land Contamination: Technical Guidance on Special Sites: MoD LandFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
AAOD. Anti-Aircraft Ordnance Depot, storage area for anti-aircraft shells. ..... Royal Air Force, branch of British military services responsible ...
publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SP5-042-TR-1-e-p.pdf - Similar pages


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Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #325490
3rd Jun 2009 7:54pm
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Originally Posted by bert1
Thats interesting DD, did any of the places you listed have any conection with the RAF


Good idea Bert - this puts an end to the conspiracy theory - all these locations were WITHIN TWO MILES of an RAF Base (other than one that might not). Hence there would be heavy HAA protection in the vicinity, hence need an AAOD

Wednesfield - RAF Perton
Walsgrave on Sowe - RAF Ansty
Upton - RAF West Kirby
Kidbrook - Kidbrook has an airport, not sure if RAF in WW2
Weyhill - RAF Thruxton and RAF Andover
York - RAF Clifton
Inchinnan - RAF Abbotsinch


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: diggingdeeper] #325508
3rd Jun 2009 8:12pm
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bert1 Offline OP

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So is it possible Upton camp was built in conjunction with RAF West Kirby, RAF West Kirby being 1940 and i assume Upton Camp around about the same time.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Upton Army Camp, Wirral. [Re: bert1] #325538
3rd Jun 2009 9:26pm
3rd Jun 2009 9:26pm
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Originally Posted by bert1
So is it possible Upton camp was built in conjunction with RAF West Kirby, RAF West Kirby being 1940 and i assume Upton Camp around about the same time.
Certainly seems likely, but there was a lot of stuff going up around then. But basically the quantity of HAA sites on the Wirral would create the demand for the AAOD, as I said earlier (I think?) there are very few records of the HAA guns on sites (such as RAF Bases or ROFs), only the records of the outlying HAA seem to be recorded.

There were 10 outlying HAA sites and 3 RAF stations on the Wirral


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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