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I see some of your points, but as an ovious Labour supported, you have grossly exaggerated Conservatism - and Labour have hardly done well, be it under old Labour (74 - 79 - nope they screwed the country over and once again left it in financial ruin) or New Labour (the only thing they have in common with old Labour is the "tax you till you can't afford to eat/heat your homes" philosophy and leaving the country in financial ruins).

The problem with the points regarding Labour you have made, is unless they suddenly returned to old-Labour ethics, they are completely invalid, and 20 years out of date, if not more.

And by the way, when Labour got in in 1997, the Tories left a booming economy and jobs market (a fact admitted by Tony Blair on occasion), New Labour have not changed that, as Cameron said, all Gordon Brown has done, is taken Ken Clarkes golden legacy, and screwed it up.

To quote a neutral in all this chaos...


Not has there been a truer statement this year.

The country has a void instead of a government - with no one fit to fill it What a jolly mess we're in.

Jeremy Clarkson maybe?

Can you fill a void with another void?

Dunno, might be a job for a timelord this one...

If in 97 the Tories left a booming economy and jobs market, why on earth did the British people vote them out.

Twas thinking the very same

David Tennant for Prime Minister

[youtube]kzlOBn029b8[/youtube]

Coalition Government of the 3 main parties
Take the best ideas of each and put them to a 'think tank' of
neutrals/mixed parties until we get an agreed policy

All this political sniping at each other is getting the country nowhere

Constant infighting, cash for questions, widespread division over the EU, the damage Redwood did in 95, general tiredness of government, New Labour's/Alistair Cambell's media spin machine, The ..., need I go on?

In all honesty, there was a lot to be said for a fresh new government at the time, as good a PM as Major was, and a few individual members of his cabnet (Portillo, Clarke etc), the party was in disarray and it was never going to be the safest option to leave them in power.

The shy-tory voters never turned out (the overall national turnout was much lower than in 92 I believe) and more people had genuinely bought into the New Labour spin machine, that was probably the overall killer.

Not forgetting 4 million on the dole, the Thatcher years and trying to break the trade unions and closing down perfectly viable industries.

Coal mining was not viable; not sure how much money an industry has to be costing the taxpayer before people realise it isnt self-sustainable. £1billion a year (how much is that in todays money) was being lost keeping the mining industry going.

The recession of the 80's was a direct result of Labour's stupidity, the Tories had little choice after the country was essentially left bankrupt by Labour when they left office in 79.

4 million on the dole? Not entirely sure where your getting that fingure from, but when the Tories left office, it was around the 2 million mark - and this was before the crafty way's Labour have since devised for doctoring the figures (people who are out of work encouraged to go on the sick, go to college etc, where they can then be classed as not unemployed).

Trade unions are their own worst enemies imho, we only have to look at the Royal Mail to realise this, whilst the entire organisation was falling to pieces around them, and the future was unsure, the unions were encouraging their workers to go on strike last Christmas.

Of course unemployment under Labour is at record lows... hmmm, even with their crafty figure doctoring techniques, its probably going to hit 3 million this year/next year, not forgetting the first drop in average national earnings since records began back in 1991 etc as well as record consumer and national debt levels.

My last post on subject, so I will include everything including life on mars and life in/outside the universe.

I was a active member of the Conservative party and an offical, the problem I had was the higher I went and who I saw in the Consevative party, the more they were closet snobs who considered the working class to be inconsiderate slaves that should be thankful for anything they got. The reason I was tory was that I mistakenly thought that nationalisation was wrong - essential services should be under extremely tight government control.

I was a member of the Labour party, the ultra-left are good for a laugh, sit them down in a room and ask them to model goevernment interaction with non-left wing countries and they end up killing each other within the first hour. Ultra-left is an ideal, not a realism. Right wing Labour is a contradiction, what else can you say? True labour is a realistic ideal if we get enough people to go for it - no - the greedy wouldn't, the lazy wouldn't, the criminals wouldn't, the me-me-mes (self centered individuals) wouldn't - thats knocked out too much of
the population.

I am apolitical - I don't believe in the party system - it doesn't work - you should vote your MP in, on his beliefs, he should vote on his beliefs and/or his voters wishes, he should be able to openly state what votes he is trading (eg you can have my vote for your london eye if I get your vote for my free merseytunnels etc)...

I am against proportional representation - minorities area (eg rural - farming) need a bias to help them get represented. Proportional representation is only supported by those who would benefit from it - that is the definition of greed. The liberal(or whatever variant it currently thinks it is) party concerns me that it it speaks about openess and honesty, then you find that most of the leaders are closet gays. What are their policy beliefs - I don't know.

I am for laws - self regulation of greedy go-ahead businessmen cannot work.

I am for the old house of lords - I acknowledge it doesn't make sense, but it worked, it stopped many silly things going through that the commons were blinkered on, yet it didn't interfere with government significantly. The new system is croneyism and nothing else and having ex-MPs seems to attempt to stamp its power when possible instead of common sense. The proposed elected lords is nonsense because who it would just be repetition of the house of commons (would you vote tory for one and labour for the other?) that would end up as croneyism again. The old system possibly worked because the only Lords that could be bothered with the boredom of the house must have been commited to queen and country - believe me - the house of lords IS boring.

Life in space - definately, life on Mars - no chance.

Statistics are manipulative, statistics in politics - more so. Booming economy from Mrs Thatcher - where was the money coming from and waht was it paying for? Unemployed figures - how many were disguised by being in training?

Yes, Labour have got a tendancy to tax heavily, but have you seen the price of medical insurance, private security, private libraries, private schooling, private roads, private legal representation etc. Bargain mate, like the bins - if you can do it cheaper (legally) tell the council not to charge you for it and do it privately.

The opposition party, by nature, will always tend to be more middle-of-the road until they get into power - possibly with the exception of New Labour - who are too confused to realise where they are heading.

Europe - it is hardly a state seceret that the French and Germans have as much trust and admiration in us as we in them. To get into (political) bed with them has got to be suicidal. To do it without consulting the coutry is downright criminal! MPs generally believe in Europe because it extends their career path - back to self centered greed again - mmmmm

Here endeth etc .... if anybody wants me to respond further please do it by PM - these type of topics always get too messy in public - especially when people don't see common sense in the same way as I do - I am right - dd for president, that is a sacrifice not greed!

Under a Tory government, the mines under the chairmanship of Mcgregor and the shipbuilding industry under the chairmanship of Atkinson were given the brief to close down those industries and other industries were under the same brief, rail related, steel, were all given no backing. In all other countries world wide these industries were heavily subsidised by there governments leaving industries here unable to compete on the world stage. The 4 million figure comes from as much as today figures, people not showing on the dole but not in real jobs.