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Poulton named Poton 1579 #1072549
13th Nov 2019 12:03pm
13th Nov 2019 12:03pm
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granny Offline OP
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Poulton of Poulton cum Seacombe, was named Poton . This map is Saxton's Map dated 1579.

Anyone know what the house could be at Poton ? Too early for the Manor houses, I believe.


http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onli...X1PTtFpZ8F7MihgMKzwV7WtOqip4uBJbknwdfos0


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072553
13th Nov 2019 1:31pm
13th Nov 2019 1:31pm
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Sutton Coldfield
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that site link does not open for me it may have been moved or deleted. I have checked all references to this Poton and found nothing. But it could be that it is a map abbreviation as Poulton means 'small settlement by a small pool of water.' Another states: Poulton: Town or Farm by a pool. From pol tun

A 1637 Saxton map says Poulton. A 1611 map does not show Poulton or any variation. Above Seacum and what looks like Tulron or Pulron.

Last edited by red_devil; 13th Nov 2019 1:45pm.
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072554
13th Nov 2019 1:49pm
13th Nov 2019 1:49pm
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I was trying to add more info above but it wont let me. I was trying to say that the 1637 map source is by the same originator that your link quotes but wont open.

Last edited by red_devil; 13th Nov 2019 1:49pm.
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072555
13th Nov 2019 1:57pm
13th Nov 2019 1:57pm
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wallasey
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Map opens OK for me, can't shed any light tho', but notice the Poulton Lancelyn in Bromborough is named Pooton Lancelot

Last edited by daveybm; 13th Nov 2019 1:57pm.
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072556
13th Nov 2019 2:24pm
13th Nov 2019 2:24pm
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granny Offline OP
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072578
13th Nov 2019 9:54pm
13th Nov 2019 9:54pm
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I often think historians place too much reliance on spelling, in the past so much was passed on by word of mouth and scribes had their own styles and spelling methods.

Imagine someone from London trying to spell Saughall Massie when it was said by someone from Speke, its not going to happen is it!

Mistakes were made, mistakes were copied (much the same problems as we have with the internet these days).


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072587
14th Nov 2019 10:26am
14th Nov 2019 10:26am
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granny Offline OP
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As time moved on the names did change , we know that from the Viking connections, but also from the official archives where the landed Gentry mentioned and Royal Charters were recorded etc.

But I wasn't really bothered about the name apart from pointing out which Poton it was I was referring to.. my question was about the building on the map. If anyone knew what it was connected to.
I know they had ships that arrived there at the end of 1500's, and wondered if it might have been connected to a customs house or similar.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072701
23rd Nov 2019 1:47am
23rd Nov 2019 1:47am
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The houses on the map represent Manors which may or may not have Manor Houses but still having Manorial rights (whether executed or not).

In 1545 Poulton had a windmill, a Pub, and a few small houses.

There is a lot of confusion between Poulton, Poulton-cum-Seacombe and Seacombe.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072717
23rd Nov 2019 11:52pm
23rd Nov 2019 11:52pm
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granny Offline OP
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I found this site , which is interesting to browse through. This chart would indicate that it was a house rather than a manor. So it may have been Litherland's I was looking at but I'm not sure when they lived in Poulton. They were there around 1600's but I don't know how long before.

http://www.bsswebsite.me.uk/A%20Short%20History%20of/maps.html

I can't see the attachments but for anyone else the same one is on this link. House, church, manor house, cathedral.

Attached Files
1360jgoughbuildings.jpg (14 downloads)
Last edited by granny; 23rd Nov 2019 11:54pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072718
24th Nov 2019 12:05am
24th Nov 2019 12:05am
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granny Offline OP
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Sorry DD, just realised what you were explaining. So it's denoting that some sort of hamlet/ community were living there ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1072730
24th Nov 2019 6:22pm
24th Nov 2019 6:22pm
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No, I think it denotes that there were manorial rights to this land, the Pooles. Houghs, Whitmores, Meoles, Gordons, Smiths etc had the rights at various times although most probably didn't live there (I think most of them had other Manors) and probably never imposed their rights. So it was probably a manor-less manor.

The churches on the map are where there are parish rights etc (mostly Woodchurch of course)

Its an ownership/rights map if you like not dissimilar to the hundreds maps.

From what I can tell, Poulton might have existed before Seacombe then both areas joined, then both areas separated again.

imho


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1073025
8th Dec 2019 11:17pm
8th Dec 2019 11:17pm
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Bird House

Re: Poulton named Poton 1579 [Re: granny] #1073089
11th Dec 2019 10:33am
11th Dec 2019 10:33am
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granny Offline OP
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That I think is a consideration too, Sonylegs. Reason. Birds house and barn was on the map in the mid 1600's and situated in the same place as it is now . Was known as Williamson's Croft .

Ships arrived in from Ireland .

Kathryn Brydd daughter of Wm Brydd married Robert Williamson 1580/81

Robert Williamson was Master of a ship named 'The Swallow' out of Wallasey

John Bird of Mayor of Liverpool owned ships

Richard Bird age 27 yrs sailed on the Pheonix one of John Bird's ships.

Also a ship called 'Speedwell of Wallazie'

The Birds of Chester were 'tanners'


The SPEEDWELL.] On trie 28th of March "the Speedwell of
Wallazie, Robert Ensdall* master, burthen 16 tons, from Dublin,
entered the Port of Liverpool. The cargo of the Speedwell
consisted of 17 packages of yarn, sent to several persons; of 150
yards of linen cloth; and of 1600 sheep, deer, and broke
[badger] fells' [skins.]


Page 38 https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/122-3-Woodward.pdf

In addition it is quite clear that the animals were not unloaded at Chester,
but down the Wirral, and only a small number of the animals
seem to have entered the city. At Chester the sheriffs kept an
account of the duty paid by merchants, who were not freemen,
on goods shipped to the city for Sale. These accounts have
survived in usable condition for eight years during the period
1605-24. 3<J Only for one year, 1611, is there a reference to
livestock; on 9 February Sam Bates of 'Hallifex' brought a
cargo of tallow, pig grease, bacon, beef and Tenn quicke
beeves' to the city while in July another merchant shipped
'ix quicke beastes'. There are, in fact, very few references in the
Chester city archives relating to the import of Irish livestock. In
the Assembly Book, for the period 1603-42, there are only two
references to Irish cattle. "

************
There's clearly been a fair bit of activity in Poulton in the late 1500's early 1600's and there's only one way that would have happened, due to seafaring . The way I see it, is that Poulton (Poton) was the quay for the off loading of live cargo, and the Old House, (Birds House) was possibly a place for the shipmates to stop off . The Barn would be for the animals.

There is another entry in Hslc : Rentals of Poulton @Seacombe During Eliz Ist reign ( 1558-1603) Richard Brydd a tenement with housing

Rental of Poulton @ Seacombe, 5 Eliz."
Had. MS. 2039, p. 89.
(h) " Pet Puford | Richard Brydd a ten' wh housyng thereunto
" Secam f and upon the back side of the house or
" yard croft adioyning to a tent of Mr. houghes.
" Item a barne and a Gardayn upon the backsyde thereof
" adioynyng to Tottyes grounde.

Last edited by granny; 11th Dec 2019 10:37am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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