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#1062970 11th Dec 2018 11:42pm
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granny Offline OP
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Does anyone know of Carr House, or Carr Houses or Carr, near Moreton in the 17th century.

I have not heard of such a locality, but compozz is trying to find a connection to one of his ancestors.

( besides what we have as Carr Farm now, and I'm not sure how old that might be) Carr House Lane, Lydiate , is the nearest I can get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carr_Houses

Last edited by granny; 11th Dec 2018 11:50pm.

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granny #1062971 12th Dec 2018 12:07am
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Well, bugger me ! I have just found reference to Carr Houses under Saughall Massey on Wikipedia .


It says :

Formerly a township in the Bidston Parish of the Wirral Hundred, the population of Saughall Massie and the nearby hamlet of Carr Houses was 98 in 1801, 176 in 1851 and 186 in 1901.[6] On 1 April 1974, local government reorganisation in England and Wales resulted in most of Wirral, including Saughall Massie, transfer from the county of Cheshire to Merseyside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saughall_Massie


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granny #1062972 12th Dec 2018 1:06am
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You back to Mr Bird again, the original Carr House was up around Westry Close, but somewhere around 1900 it moved to around Berwick Close which was previously owned by Bird.

I wonder if both properties were called Carr House, hence the plural name for the area?

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 12th Dec 2018 1:11am.

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Wow ! Thanks, Yes Mr Bird again. Ha ! That flock are not going to fly off anywhere soon !

Where did you find that it was owned by Mr Bird ?

This could be the connection he wants for 'Carr Bird' 1600's


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granny #1062974 12th Dec 2018 2:13am
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Tithe records say the plot is owned by William Philips Trustee under the will of late Mr Bird.

Was surprised at how much property the Birds owned around Poulton, many of the properties were either William Bird, John Bird or the Reverend James Mainwaring.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
granny #1062978 12th Dec 2018 12:50pm
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http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithema...L%20OF%20LATE%20MR%20BIRD&random=477

It doesn't actually say Carr or 'Carr Houses' anywhere.

I have the WiIl of this Mr Bird... Joseph Bird Will dated, 1827. It's big !

extract:

. ' I bequeath unto my son Henry Bird, all and singular my houses, lands of inheritance, tenements, hereditaments '
Four daughters mentioned , Anne Philips, Margaret Barker, Joanna Godwin and Ellen Wilkinson.
In the event of Henry Bird not getting married in his lifetime or without issue, the above goes to his grandson Henry Wilkinson.
His beloved wife Jane , twenty pounds a year paid out of the money of mortgage with Henry Godwin of Saughall Massie.

Don't know which line Joseph comes from, possibly as his son was called Henry and his grandson was called Henry, Joseph would have likely been Henry's son, as there was a Henry Bird of Saughall Massey. (not sure when) , but as it's likely to be such a muddle, I think it can at least wait until after Christmas. Got enough going on in this poor mashed brain atm.


Last edited by granny; 12th Dec 2018 12:51pm.

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granny #1062990 12th Dec 2018 5:53pm
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I think the oldest building at Carr Farm is the old stone farmhouse now occupied by Cottage Stoves on the yard. There are some pretty good curved beams in there (almost like a cruck frame, except you can't see the upstairs) and hints in the stonework that it might have been extended from one storey to two. Look beyond the whitewash and take a look inside and you'll find it intriguing.

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Sally Carr lane and Carr houses on 1831 Bryant map

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granny #1063010 12th Dec 2018 7:39pm
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Originally Posted by granny

http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithema...L%20OF%20LATE%20MR%20BIRD&random=477

It doesn't actually say Carr or 'Carr Houses' anywhere.


Plot 78/79 is Carr House if you got to 1910 map, the older Carr House is North West up Carr Lane on the Tithe map, Bryant Map appears to have yet another Carr House, maybe, I haven't paired them up properly.

Tithe records often miss house or road names out.


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granny #1063011 12th Dec 2018 7:48pm
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Derek, thanks. However, I cannot view it. Not allowed..... prob because I haven't paid membership. Will have to sort it in the New Year after the electricity bill has been paid ! frown

Greenwood; Thanks for that, I was at Carr Farm last week having a look around. Will go again soon and have a look at the 'fire shop'

Last edited by granny; 12th Dec 2018 7:49pm.

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granny #1063012 12th Dec 2018 7:58pm
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Thanks DD.

Compozz is trying to trace a relative who arrived in Virginia around 1680's . Name : Thomas Carr Bird. He seems fairly certain this is the right area. This is what he wrote to me : (hope you don't mind Compozz, but it saves you writing it all out again)

"Still, my people came from somewhere; based on what I’ve seen the Wirral is the best candidate for point of origin. There’s no one big thing but a dozen little things: the persistence of family folk memories (4-8 generations), concentration of the surname in an isolated area subject to emigration pressure over time, the repetition of Scottish/English names in my line, the links between the Virginia colony and the Massies of Saughall Massie, the DNA profile, the proximity to Liverpool "

Any ideas folks ?


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granny #1063021 12th Dec 2018 11:29pm
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There were two other Birds in the area besides JAMES, both named Henry, in the late 1690s but all the heirs I've found died early. Thank you all for the help.

granny #1063022 13th Dec 2018 1:13am
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The only comment I make now is, that


Henry and Margaret (Thomason) married 1635 had 4 listed children that I can find.

William, 1637
Ellen 1639
Alice 1642
Mary. 1646

I wondered why they never had a son named Henry. If they did then he could be the one who went to Saughall.

James Bird (Brydd)and Elizabeth Askew married 1593
James Bird and Ales Henson married 1602
Henry Bird and Elizabeth Billingham married 1605 possibly Henricus Subsidy Roll Poulton C.S. 1625 and maybe Margaret Tomason was his second wife.

Henry Bird of Saughall had a Will dated 1690 which I do not have.

Last edited by granny; 13th Dec 2018 1:15am.

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granny #1063110 15th Dec 2018 9:25pm
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Does anyone know of a connection between Salacre Lane ,Upton and Sally Carrs Lane in Moreton, or is it just a coincidence that they sound the same. (there was a house called "the Salacres" in Upton.

granny #1063119 16th Dec 2018 12:56am
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Interesting question loco.
This doesn't give an answer to your question but it might be of interest .

Written by Stephen Harding the great Viking researcher.

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/JEPNS_Nov_Dec2007.pdf

Last edited by granny; 16th Dec 2018 1:03am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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