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Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1061804
10th Nov 2018 3:19am
10th Nov 2018 3:19am
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Good for you , granny! With you all the way. We should never have got tied to Europe. Should have been a trade deal only right from beginning. Can’t understand why anyone would think we need to stay in.

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Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1061975
13th Nov 2018 10:33am
13th Nov 2018 10:33am
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I'm afraid I don't agree. Its thanks to the EU that we have clean rivers and seas we can swim in, not to mention cleaner air. Its thanks to the EU that we don't have acid rain.

The UK was known as "the dirty man of Europe" for decades.

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/basics/health-wellbeing/clean-water/index_en.htm

And what about the working time directive? Or the extra regulations on banks?

Or any of these:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6455879.stm

Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1061981
13th Nov 2018 11:28am
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Well, apart from plastics of one form or another, have the EU done the same for Canada, Australia, New Zealand ?


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1061982
13th Nov 2018 11:39am
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...and here's another view on the wonderful EU. Written by George Soros. It would appear that he could be master of all, and his foresight would indicate that it's going to take the EU quite along time to get back on it's feet.

The EU have referred to UK being equivalent to 19 small countries, no wonder they would rather hang on to us.

I dare say if any agreement is extended after 29th March 2019... we will have to pay another annual amount of £billions for the privilege of being stopped in our tracks by one thing or another.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/george-soros-explains-his-audacious-plan-to-save-europe-2018-05-29


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: Gibbo] #1061984
13th Nov 2018 2:33pm
13th Nov 2018 2:33pm
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Originally Posted by Gibbo
I'm afraid I don't agree. Its thanks to the EU that we have clean rivers and seas we can swim in, not to mention cleaner air. Its thanks to the EU that we don't have acid rain.

The UK was known as "the dirty man of Europe" for decades.


As was Germany, Poland and various other countries in Europe.

The drive to clean up pollution was because of the rising cost to health services and loss of working time, it happened in independent Countries as well, you cannot possibly attribute this to the EU without acknowledging that if the UK had been independent then it would have still cleaned up its own act the same as most developed higher population density countries have throughout the world.

The EU still allows use to defer our pollution to other Countries so its not saving the earth or people, the moral argument is lost, its purely a financial issue within the EU.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: diggingdeeper] #1062012
14th Nov 2018 10:09am
14th Nov 2018 10:09am
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
you cannot possibly attribute this to the EU without acknowledging that if the UK had been independent then it would have still cleaned up its own act the same as most developed higher population density countries have throughout the world.


Nope because its been shown other "developed" countries haven't bothered. The US for example, especially with their recent walk out of the Paris climate accord.

Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1062026
14th Nov 2018 7:18pm
14th Nov 2018 7:18pm
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Funnily enough USA scores higher on Environmental Performance than eleven EU countries, furthermore the UK scores higher than twenty three other EU countries.

More than half the top 50 are EU nations which shows the EU has got some sort of influence but the UK has CHOSEN to go above and beyond the average for the EU.

1 Switzerland
2 France(EU)
3 Denmark(EU)
4 Malta(EU)
5 Sweden(EU)
6 UK(EU)
7 Luxembourg(EU)
8 Austria(EU)
9 Ireland(EU)
10 Finland(EU)
12 Spain(EU)
13 Germany(EU)
14 Norway
15 Belgium(EU)
16 Italy(EU)
17 New Zealand
18 Netherlands(EU)
19 Israel
20 Japan
21 Australia
22 Greece(EU)
23 Taiwan
24 Cyprus(EU)
25 Canada
26 Portugal(EU)
27 USA
28 Slovakia(EU)
29 Lithuania(EU)
30= Bulgaria(EU)
30= Costa Rica
32 Qatar.
33 Czech Republic(EU)
34 Slovenia (EU)
35 Trinidad and Tobago
36 St Vincent & Grenadines
37 Latvia(EU)
38 Turkmenistan
39 Seychelles
40 Albania
41 Croatia(EU)
42 Colombia
43 Hungary(EU)
44 Belarus
45 Romania(EU)
46 Dominican Republic
47 Uruguay
48 Estonia(EU)
49 Singapore
50 Poland(EU)


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1062033
15th Nov 2018 5:01am
15th Nov 2018 5:01am
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Just wanted to know, how many millions its cost to get this far and we are still not out of the EU, then to say give tthe UK another vote, so we could be wasting many more hundreds of millions and for what, to drag on for more years and the counrty is still flat lining?
Maybe we should have a vote to get rid of MP's, lets have a deal?
"I work for a company, lets say its a supermarket, one day i leave to work for someone else, but still want to go shopping, can i still have my store discount card so i can get my shopping cheaper please, the answer would be P*** Off, that's what we are asking the EU?!

Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: diggingdeeper] #1062034
15th Nov 2018 9:57am
15th Nov 2018 9:57am
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Oxton
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
More than half the top 50 are EU nations which shows the EU has got some sort of influence but the UK has CHOSEN to go above and beyond the average for the EU.


Really?


UK given days to show it will comply with EU air quality laws
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-it-will-comply-with-eu-air-quality-laws


UK taken to Europe's highest court over air pollution
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...europes-highest-court-over-air-pollution


Thames Water hit with record £20m fine for huge sewage leaks
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...t-with-record-fine-for-huge-sewage-leaks

Your Wikipedia table just relates to policies - not action: "The Environmental Performance Index (EPI) is a method of quantifying and numerically marking the environmental performance of a state's policies. "

Last edited by Gibbo; 15th Nov 2018 9:58am.
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: Gibbo] #1062037
15th Nov 2018 12:21pm
15th Nov 2018 12:21pm
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Originally Posted by Gibbo
Really?


Yes, over 80% of the EU has a worse track record than us, we are the good guys by choice.

When the UK was taken to court by the EU for air pollution, so was France, Germany, Hungry, Italy and Romania - but our media don't mention such things. Other countries like the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Spain narrowly avoided being taken to court by promises about how they will tackle air pollution but which they are unlikely to achieve.

Almost all of those problems were to do with vehicle emissions, this is a progression towards pushing for electric vehicles, the emission standards for combustion vehicles are getting ridiculously tight and if they continue it will be unlikely that engines will last anywhere near the expected 100,000 miles we are used to.

The biggest joke is things like stop/start on combustion engines, sounds brilliant in basically description but of course is actually counter-productive in practice, overall it probably produces more pollution and in any case it is only the tiniest fraction of the pollution produced by the vehicle.

If they want to reduce vehicle related pollution they need to construct more over-passes at cross roads, this is true for electric vehicles as well.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1062049
16th Nov 2018 12:52am
16th Nov 2018 12:52am
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granny Offline OP
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The whole affair would appear to be a stitch- up anyway. i.e. if the BBC have reported correctly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46228454

No Brexit re- negotiations, EU Leaders Warn ! Sounds like a re-run of the signing of the Munich Treaty :

An emergency meeting of the main European powers, not including the Soviet Union, took place in Munich, Germany On 29-30 September 1938. An agreement was quickly reached on Hitler's terms. It was signed by the top leaders of Germany, France, Great Britain, and Italy. Czechoslovakia was not invited to the conference. Militarily, the Sudetenland was of strategic importance to Czechoslovakia as most of its border defenses were situated there to protect against a German attack. Germany took control of the Sudetenland following a low-intensity undeclared war in the area that had started on 17 September 1938. The agreement was soon followed by the First Vienna Award which set the new border between Czechoslovakia and Hungary, while Poland also annexed territories from Czechoslovakia. In March 1939, the First Slovak Republic was proclaimed and shortly by the creation of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia Germany took full control of the Czech parts. As a result, Czechoslovakia was dismembered.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: granny] #1062050
16th Nov 2018 1:08am
16th Nov 2018 1:08am
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granny Offline OP
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For anyone thinking we should leave without a deal.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/221747


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stop a second referndum. [Re: keef666] #1062051
16th Nov 2018 5:06am
16th Nov 2018 5:06am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by keef666
Just wanted to know, how many millions its cost to get this far and we are still not out of the EU, then to say give tthe UK another vote, so we could be wasting many more hundreds of millions and for what, to drag on for more years and the counrty is still flat lining?
Maybe we should have a vote to get rid of MP's, lets have a deal?
"I work for a company, lets say its a supermarket, one day i leave to work for someone else, but still want to go shopping, can i still have my store discount card so i can get my shopping cheaper please, the answer would be P*** Off, that's what we are asking the EU?!


But its exactly the opposite, we subsidise the EU, we have always been a net contributor, its us that is giving the discount to the EU, not the other way around.

On top of that, we import more from Europe than they import from us. They make a huge profit out our trade deficit with them, yet they think when we leave we should pay them a fee for us to allow them to continue making a profit out of us???

And .... on top of that, the EU forces us to pay more for our goods than the world market price and want this practice to continue after we leave.

Then there is the little detail that the EU want us to carry on paying them after we leave to the tune of £39bn, have you ever heard of an equivalent situation anywhere else, especially as it wasn't even in the small print of the EU contract, they are making the rules up as they go along without any precedent or permission to do so.

Furthermore, even when we have left, the EU want us to obey their laws and be judged in their courts.

The EU are out to punish us as harshly as they can to discourage other countries from leaving this unholy mess of making a German superstate.

Unfortunately Brexit has occurred at the same time as having one of the worst Governments we have ever had, this Government of the 6th richest economy in the world has chosen to punish its citizens financially and is going to happen in parallel with the punishment they allow the EU to slap on us.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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