WikiWirral 16yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,027,122
Topics75,510
Members13,441
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs4
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
30 registered members (alan128, 8 invisible), 1,176 guests, and229 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Masks and gloves
by cools. 7th Jul 2020 9:35am
White House UK
by casper. 3rd Jul 2020 9:37am
Portable bogs blown over
by mikeeb. 30th Jun 2020 1:02pm
To Denmark
by diggingdeeper. 21st Jun 2020 2:47pm
New Wirral History
The new 4 bridges.
by mikeeb. 7th Jul 2020 4:10pm
Ron Gittins Stories ?
by DaDoRon. 2nd Jul 2020 9:59pm
Outdoor swimming pools
by mikeeb. 30th Jun 2020 4:26pm
1888-1913 map overlay
by mikeeb. 19th Jun 2020 2:04pm
Satellite images 1971-73
by mikeeb. 11th Jun 2020 5:45pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
Nintendo Switch Console plus accessories/games
by MisterSmiff. 12th Jul 2020 4:20pm
Team Xecuter Dual Nand Xbox 360 for sale PLUS
by TudorBlue. 12th Jul 2020 12:53am
Brexit Transition
by granny. 11th Jul 2020 11:39pm
Ipad Mini 5th Gen
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 1:58pm
Computer Desk
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 9:37am
5 Dapol Plastic Locomotive OO Gauge Kits
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 9:37am
HP Envy 13" laptop I5-7200U 8gb MX150 240gb ssd
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 9:37am
Writing Desk/Bureau
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 9:36am
Eastham Train Station
by BultacoAstro. 11th Jul 2020 8:26am
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
walking group
by lincle. 18th Jun 2020 7:59pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rating 3
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Russia #1053556
14th Mar 2018 6:49pm
14th Mar 2018 6:49pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,830
Wirral
C
cools Offline OP
Forum Master
cools  Offline OP
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,830
Wirral
After getting myself all worked up over the Trump and Kim thing now I've got to worry about this! We could do without having Russia as an enemy! I mean can they really really prove it was the Russian government who did this or some other source who have made it look that way? I don't know enough about it all really , just find it worrying again...

Google Ads
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053558
14th Mar 2018 9:47pm
14th Mar 2018 9:47pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
If we managed to identify the nerve agent as Novichok then we must be able to produce it and the same goes for many other countries.

It pays a lot of other countries for this to happen, it is of no benefit to the UK nor Russia.

To identify the chemical as Russian is a joke but of course the USA have goaded us on. Furthermore the Russians are right, we haven't followed the Chemical Weapons Convention.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053570
14th Mar 2018 10:56pm
14th Mar 2018 10:56pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
Right DD "qui bono" (who benefits) in stirring up discord between UK and Russia?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053571
14th Mar 2018 11:38pm
14th Mar 2018 11:38pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
Most of the EU countries, the last thing they want when we leave is any sort of pact or co-operation between us and Russia.

USA because their military want the cold war to start again to get more power and funding.

Any of the middle east countries that we have done our best to totally mistreat, they are desperate for attention to wander elsewhere.

Anybody that wanted to test a nerve agent without it being traced to source.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Russia [Re: diggingdeeper] #1053573
15th Mar 2018 9:21am
15th Mar 2018 9:21am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,113
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,113
wallasey
Come on folks, you cant see the wood for the tree's, poor old Russia is being blamed maligned, it wasn't us guv, so why don't they cooperate? any right minded person / government would go out of their way to prove they were innocent but no, deny deny deny, basically we have had the two fingers, they have done it before and got away with it and expected the same to happen again.

As to the middle east dd, I am sure if the had access to Novichok they would have used it in a more effective manner.

The EU involved really, we trained in Germany as part of NATO for years, who do you think the threat was from?

The most likely scenario is Putin is up for election and wanted to send a message to those thinking of opposing him, no place to hide.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053574
15th Mar 2018 9:58am
15th Mar 2018 9:58am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,073
Wirral
snowhite Offline

Wiki Addict
snowhite  Offline

Wiki Addict
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,073
Wirral

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053575
15th Mar 2018 9:59am
15th Mar 2018 9:59am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 92
Wallasey village
N
Near_Oval Offline
Member
Near_Oval  Offline
Member
N
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 92
Wallasey village
Another view of election time in Russia is that he is able to show an appearance of strength in power - average Russian citizen has no interest in overseas issues neither are thery impacted by what the UK could bring into play as sanctions.
But they can be impressed by sabre rattling on UK part as being given the figurative two fingered salute.

I believe the nerve agents have specific chemical signatures that can be traced to orignal source/development, how have the powers that be not publicised this?
One source a=stated it can take weeks to unpick the composition is it possible UK has jumped the gun?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053582
15th Mar 2018 11:41am
15th Mar 2018 11:41am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
I don't think the average voting Russian wants reminding of the KGB, it could be a dodgy strategy. Other than that its true they want a "strong" President that wouldn't keel over at the first challenge.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053586
15th Mar 2018 1:20pm
15th Mar 2018 1:20pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
casper;;; russia may know its innocent and just wants to make the UK government look complete idiots..you can learn a lot about your opponent and their tactics when you hold 4 aces and they claim to have one. Dont feel too safe after watching the UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson he looks like an undergraduate fresh out of Eaton.

Re: Russia [Re: fish5133] #1053588
15th Mar 2018 1:53pm
15th Mar 2018 1:53pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,113
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,113
wallasey
Don't forget that we are dealing with a culture its History steeped in mistrust, cruelty and mass murder, worse than that of the Nazis if that is possible, that fear still lurks in the background for those that oppose the hardliners, this is a country that has no qualms in murdering its own people and they care very little about what others think, their troops are highly trained in nbc warfare, Civilian aircraft shot down (it wasn't us guv) others murdered on uk streets deny, deny , deny, the question is how long do we turn a blind eye?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053607
15th Mar 2018 3:08pm
15th Mar 2018 3:08pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,502
Birkenhead
Also don't forget we are dealing with a Tory Government who are used to lying and getting away with it to the gullible Tory voters.

Watching the various comments by May, Boris, Gavin Williamson etc shows how accustomed they are to saying anything they like despite no evidence it is true.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053610
15th Mar 2018 5:26pm
15th Mar 2018 5:26pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,721
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,721
wirral
DD is correct. I see no motive for Russia or Putin to assassinate a spy who was imprisoned and later exchanged in the cold war, particularly in such a manner calculated to cause hackles to be raised in the West. Blaming Russia is a bit like finding someone bludgeoned to death by a giant frozen Cornish pasty and concluding that the Cornwall County council are responsible! Laughable.

I suspect Ukraine may be responsible. It would have had access to the poison used during the Soviet period, and having lost a lot of what it maintains is its territory to Russia has every motive to discredit its enemy. Another possibility is the UK. It is remarkable how the assassination has swept from the media all reference to the EU's complete rejection of all the proposals made by Mrs. May in her last brilliant party-uniting speech. Also, it will do no harm to the armed forces and the security forces when the next doling out of cash takes place of course.

Casper. It is very easy to paint ANY country as black as you like. Look at the UK with wealth built on slavery, its activities the Scottish clearances and the brutality of the Black and tans in Ireland for instance. More recently we have the 'shoot to kill ' policy in Northern Ireland and Bloody Sunday. In the mainland, we had the police in the West Midlands writing statements to imprison innocent people, and even today we have the most appalling prison conditions, filthy, overcrowded and rat infested. Our streets are littered with people sleeping in shop doorways and food banks because people cannot feed themselves on their wages. I mention this not to 'prove' the UK is worse than any other country, but rather to show how easy it is to paint a false picture of a country.

Finally, I wonder what is meant by 'military grade' nerve agents. It implies there may be 'industrial' grades that will give you a disabling bellyache but not kill you, and perhaps 'commercial' grades that will just make you twitch a bit! But probably the real reason is to make it sound more scary, so nobody will question the government blaming Russia.

Sadly, we have a government to whom the truth is meaningless.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053614
15th Mar 2018 5:57pm
15th Mar 2018 5:57pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,032
Heswallish
Casper is half right but like myself many years back i had the rose tinted specs of Great Britain being a wonderful benign country helping to rid the world of Hitler etc etc. Thats part true but as you say EX a closer look at our own History is embarrassing if you wave the pontifical arent we good drum.
The classic false flag was the Israelis who blew up the King David Hotel disguised as arabs..

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053616
15th Mar 2018 6:34pm
15th Mar 2018 6:34pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,721
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,721
wirral
Well, I was born in 1942, and as a young boy firmly believed we had won WW2. As I grew older I realised that it was Hitlers decision to attack Russia, that had 'won' the war for us. It was a disastrous campaign for them as well as Russia, and the Russians lost an estimated 20 million people in it, The German army was defeated by a combination of Russian resistance and their terrible winters, rather than by the UK. Compared to what that did to the German war effort the UK's contribution was far smaller. Had Hitler invaded the UK rather than heading east, there is little doubt we would have lost.

It appears from what I have since read that Hitler was something of an anglophile, and felt that England would eventually come over to his side. There is some justification for this too. A large section of the aristocracy was sympathetic to fascism, and at the time they were a lot more powerful than they are now. The Daily Mail, for instance, actually supported Hitler at one point!

The devil is, as ever, in the detail, and when you start looking into what one thinks are indisputable facts, the smell of sulphur is often very noticeable.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053618
15th Mar 2018 6:49pm
15th Mar 2018 6:49pm
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
B
Bobario Offline
Member
Bobario  Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I think the Russians have messed with us once too often and our government have finally decided to draw a line in the sand and warn them off. Lots of Russian defectors killed on the streets and regular air and sea intrusions on our territory.

Unfortunately there may not be a way to pin this 100% on Russia. Any tom dick and harry could get their hands on the basic recipe as it is in the inventors book. Also, the factory that used to manufacture it was in Uzbekistan (iirc), and was apparently closed down by a US team (who could have taken samples and/or the formula). If its old stock any batch numbers would surely lead away from Russia.

If the PM is right and we have concrete proof that this stuff came from Russia why are we not sending samples to them and the OPCW?

Also, why the hell are we vaccinating our troops against anthrax? Have we got another batch of dodgy vaccines to test on our poor troops like they did in the 1st gulf war?

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Eastham Train Station
by BultacoAstro. 11th Jul 2020 8:26am
Wirral rocks
by GaryFromWirral. 9th Jul 2020 6:35pm
What is sitting on roof
by BultacoAstro. 9th Jul 2020 11:03am
The new 4 bridges.
by mikeeb. 7th Jul 2020 4:10pm
Incident in the Rods
by mikeeb. 6th Jul 2020 7:30pm
For Sale & Free
Ipad Mini 5th Gen
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 1:58pm
Nintendo Switch Console plus accessories/games
by Catsick. 11th Jul 2020 8:38am
VHS TAPES FREE
by Reno37. 28th Jun 2020 2:48pm
Small woodcutting bandsaw
by gerrymoore. 26th Jun 2020 5:44pm
samsung s10e
by stumpyduck. 22nd Jun 2020 12:10pm
Member Spotlight
TheComputerLab
TheComputerLab
Wallasey
Posts: 1,304
Joined: May 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Mazzy01, StephenMurray, Rosehearty, CCorish, joe1965
13441 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
lasherlal (46)
New Wirral Info
Wirral rocks
by GaryFromWirral. 9th Jul 2020 6:35pm
hairdressers
by lincle. 5th Jul 2020 8:52am
Buying a PUB
by BultacoAstro. 3rd Jul 2020 11:24am
Complaint
by BultacoAstro. 25th Jun 2020 11:02am
Telephone cable repair
by vampy1977. 15th Jun 2020 11:14am
News : New Topics
Eastham Train Station
by BultacoAstro. 11th Jul 2020 8:26am
Incident in the Rods
by mikeeb. 6th Jul 2020 7:30pm
Possible delays to bin collections
by mikeeb. 29th Jun 2020 1:55pm
New Clatterbridge Cancer Centre Liverpool
by mikeeb. 29th Jun 2020 12:19pm
Armed forces day
by cools. 27th Jun 2020 10:26am
New Enthusiast Forums
What is sitting on roof
by BultacoAstro. 9th Jul 2020 11:03am
SAE 140
by Pete_M. 27th Jun 2020 10:36pm
Let Lucy Go !
by granny. 20th Jun 2020 6:02pm
Willaston
by Erainn. 19th Jun 2020 3:48pm
Staffie missing
by lincle. 19th Jun 2020 11:13am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 5:01am
Sunset Mon 9:35pm
Local Time Mon 1:09am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1