Welcome to WikiWirral, sharing is what we do best.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,491
Posts1,034,098
Members14,884
Most Online80,173
Apr 25th, 2025
Who's Online Now
10 members (3 invisible), 21,825 guests, and 730 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,811
_Ste_ 16,347
Newest Members
David_Roberts, PostNB, Gemnm, HelenDobby, CloverBee
14,884 Registered Users
New General Forums
Subscriptions to posts?
by nickaxe - 5th Jul 2025 12:33pm
Moan about the Weather Page
by RUDEBOX - 1st Jul 2009 1:31pm
New Wirral History
Removed Mother from Grave
by bert1 - 29th Jun 2025 6:44am
Park Primary School Circa Mid to Late 1960s
by _natabb96 - 26th Jun 2025 9:33pm
Birkenhead Union Workhouse
by bert1 - 28th May 2025 1:50pm
White House, Childer Thornton
by NickWirral - 23rd Dec 2022 1:19pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 12
joney 2
bri445 2
Topic Replies
boxing club well lane
by bert1 - 12th Jul 2025 4:45am
Chat : Wirral Pubs Past & Present
by diggingdeeper - 10th Jul 2025 12:57am
132 Central Hotel
by joney - 8th Jul 2025 9:02am
White House, Childer Thornton
by bert1 - 8th Jul 2025 7:38am
Removed Mother from Grave
by bert1 - 4th Jul 2025 10:30am
Family Alldis
by bert1 - 2nd Jul 2025 6:54pm
Burton Marsh WW2 060 OTU Practise Bombing Targets
by nickaxe - 2nd Jul 2025 2:09pm
Lucy Letby
by diggingdeeper - 1st Jul 2025 1:46pm
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
bert1 1
Philip 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 29
casper 4
Mark 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1046585 28th Oct 2017 9:57am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 4
Forum Addict
OP Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 4
Desperate efforts are being made by Farage, the Torygraph and the potty Express to persuade us that Catalan's rejection of Spain is a rejection of the EU.

It is nothing of the sort of course. Catalan would really love to be part of the EU as an independent nation, although this would be embarrassing to Spain. Should Catalan actually manage to secede, I imagine the EU will not recognise it for about 20 or 30 years when tempers will have cooled to the extent when it will admit Catalonia with Spain's agreement.

It is an internal Spanish dispute, and apart from having to remain on good terms with both sides, nothing to do with the EU. Spain, like all the other members of the EU, is a sovereign nation and will have to handle the dispute as best it can.

Madrid seems to have handled it very badly. They would have been wiser, I think, to allow a non-binding referendum in the region. According to the polls, the 'leavers' - although numerous, are not in the majority.


Google Ads
Excoriator #1046595 28th Oct 2017 7:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
Difficult call on the result of a real referendum. It wouldn't be the first poll where people intentionally gave the wrong answer in order to manipulate the situation. If the polls all came back as a definite "no", the Spanish Government might have risked a real referendum.

Now which country did that happen in recently wink


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Excoriator #1046604 29th Oct 2017 11:00am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 4
Forum Addict
OP Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 4
Well, a government doesn't HAVE to follow the result of a referendum.

Cameron's mistake was not to call a referendum, but to promise that the government would follow it's conclusion. We have a parliament to make decisions and get things done, not to run referendums and let the people decide. Had Madrid made it clear that the result was non-binding, I suspect the problem would simply have gone away.

Last edited by Excoriator; 29th Oct 2017 11:02am.
Excoriator #1046611 29th Oct 2017 2:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Well, a government doesn't HAVE to follow the result of a referendum.

Cameron's mistake was not to call a referendum, but to promise that the government would follow it's conclusion. We have a parliament to make decisions and get things done, not to run referendums and let the people decide. Had Madrid made it clear that the result was non-binding, I suspect the problem would simply have gone away.


You mean the UK Government doesn't have to follow the result of a referendum, this is because we don't have a proper bill of rights so a referendum has no legal status whatsoever.

Many other countries have binding referendums because they are further advanced in democracy than we are. We don't even have the power to de-select an MP never mind how rogue he has become - there is absolutely nothing to stop a candidate pretending to be with one party but voting with another party all the time once he takes his seat.

Spanish law may be different to ours, I believe they do have binding referendums?


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
diggingdeeper #1046675 30th Oct 2017 11:02pm
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


You mean the UK Government doesn't have to follow the result of a referendum, this is because we don't have a proper bill of rights so a referendum has no legal status whatsoever.


Not quite. We could have had a binding referendum, it's perfectly possible, we had one a few years ago for the alternative vote system.

The key is how the "enabling act" is set up. The for AV referendum it was very specific in the act as to what would happen as a result of more votes being cast in favour of AV than against (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/1/part/1/chapter/2). Clearly defining the winning line and the prize. This was a binding referendum.

The EU referendum was not set up in this way but it could have been. Instead it became advisory or consultative, no winning line, no prize, just advice.

I'd love to point you to the same section of the EU referendum act but it's not there which makes it non-binding.. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/36/contents



diggingdeeper #1046677 30th Oct 2017 11:08pm
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

Spanish law may be different to ours, I believe they do have binding referendums?


It is, the spanish constitution lays out the rules and as far as I understand it the catalans would need to get the rest of spain to agree to a referendum and then get a result across the whole of spain. So probably unlikely to get the result the catalan separatists want. (http://idpbarcelona.net/docs/blog/legality_referendum.pdf)

As with most legal things there are elements of interpretation which can be argued either way... or how else would lawyers make money...


Excoriator #1046679 30th Oct 2017 11:12pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,518
Likes: 32
We seem to be saying the roughly the same thing but not necessarily from the same angle.

The Government has the choice of what they do with referendums, the people have no say in it because we do not have a proper bill of rights.

While the Government can chose to have a binding referendum by an act of parliament, they also have the power to repeal.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Excoriator #1046683 30th Oct 2017 11:30pm
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
Newbeee
Offline
Newbeee
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
ok. I can see that.

I'm not sure the government necessarily get to choose, they are only there at our whim and ultimately have to get anything through a vote which they don't necessarily win.

I'm not a fan of the whip system which means they can try to exert a lot of pressure on MPs to vote in line with their party when the MPs code of conduct specifically says that MPs should, with consideration for their constituents (which covers all of them not only those that voted for them or that are eligible to vote) should always act in the best interests of the country. (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmcode/1076/107602.htm#a3)

Nice exchanging views with you. I'm off to bed. Good night.


Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Family Alldis
by Alldis - 2nd Jul 2025 6:15pm
Removed Mother from Grave
by bert1 - 29th Jun 2025 6:44am
Park Primary School Circa Mid to Late 1960s
by _natabb96 - 26th Jun 2025 9:33pm
Montpellier Crescent
by robin47 - 8th Jun 2025 4:36pm
For Sale & Free
Member Spotlight
Tranquil
Tranquil
Wallasey
Posts: 131
Joined: March 2012
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Family Alldis
by Alldis - 2nd Jul 2025 6:15pm
Montpellier Crescent
by robin47 - 8th Jun 2025 4:36pm
News : New Topics
New Ferry regeneration
by Excoriator - 16th Mar 2025 4:22pm
Lucy Letby
by diggingdeeper - 16th Dec 2024 7:16pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Popular Topics(Views)
10,433,794 CW Chat room thread
5,667,125 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,484,187 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5